What do the Rockets do with Omer Asik?

The Houston Rockets are awash in a sea of happy feelings. They just signed superstar center Dwight Howard to a four-year max contract and look poised to run for a championship each year of that deal. With a fan rally and press conference involving Houston’s  “Legacy of Bigs,” the rose-colored glasses are on. Unfortunately, there’s a problem with the bigs that’s just going to grow. Ömer Aşık has reportedly asked for a trade, and doesn’t want to exist alongside or behind Dwight Howard. With a trade reportedly off the table, how does Houston address this issue?

The initial assumption was that the Rockets would simply move Aşık in a trade for a suitable power forward. Speculation only increased with reports that Aşık had asked for a trade due to the Howard signing. As one of the best defensive centers in the league and clearly a starting-caliber player, it seemed only reasonable to trade Ömer in order to make everyone happy. He gets a starting position, another team gets a defensive anchor, and Houston gets a solid power forward.

We all forgot one thing: Dwight Howard likes Ömer Aşık. With Harden and Howard reportedly asking for Lin and Aşık to stay in Houston, it seems likely that the Rockets will start the season with them on the roster.

Ömer Aşık is worth $8 million in cap space each of the next two years, and he’s too skilled to play for a mere ten or fifteen minutes off the bench. He’s had that role before and knows that his skill level calls for a greater role. There are only a few ways for him to get the minutes and role he needs, and we’ll soon see which one Houston picks. If they can’t make them work, he could still be moved before the season is over, so the clock has begun to tick.

The most radical option, and one which is unlikely for a variety of reasons, is for Ömer to develop a three point shot. With the deck stacked against this choice, it would be a real surprise to everyone outside of the organization, but would probably be the best long-term solution. The biggest hindrance here is Ömer Aşık himself, as he likely has no desire to radically change his game to suit the team’s roster. This might get his starting spot back, but his qualm seems to be that it was ever lost in the first place. He’s also likely to prefer continued instruction in the post, rather than the arduous process of building a three point shot over this and coming summers.

The advantages to this, however, are staggering. With even a halfway decent corner three shot (in the 30-35% range), Aşık would be able to space the floor on offense and become an even more credible threat on pick and rolls. He could shift to sort of a second big on the floor, without needing to worry about center or forward differentiation. It might seem unlikely, but a number of players have added three balls to their repertoire, including Patrick Patterson when he was a member of the Rockets. Jason Kidd became famous for suddenly picking up his three point percentage in the late 2000s. Even Donatas Motiejunas, a possible starter for Houston, shot less than 30% from behind the arc, meaning that “spacing the floor” isn’t the same thing as being a marksman.

All those players, however, were adept shooters from some range prior. Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo, two notoriously poor shooters, haven’t yet added that aspect to their play. It’s very teachable but very difficult to add that element, and there’s no good reason to believe it would happen. Ömer Aşık is likely to remain the same player he is today.

The next option, then, is to find a way to work him into the system as he is. Thomas Robinson also had no shot and was playing some minutes next to Aşık. Greg Smith, another of Houston’s seemingly endless big rotation, played power forward as well. He similarly had no shooting range, and was fairly successful when on the floor with Aşık. This would seem to suggest that it may be possible to arrange a rotation such that Howard and Aşık share the floor for ten to fifteen minutes a game, allowing Ömer to rack up 30+ minutes a night. This could also allow him the chance to start games at the four spot, which may help his morale. “Starter” is an important distinction, and even if he were to sit after only a few minutes, that’s a move he might appreciate.

The danger there is that teams could easily come off him on defense, wreaking havoc on the Rockets’ offense. Another wandering big man down low could destroy the spacing for players like Harden, who need room to operate. Defensively, Aşık would be even more prone to being pulled out of the paint while at the four, given the prevalence of stretch fours in the league. It might only be for fifteen minutes a night, but those fifteen minutes could prove disastrous.

Some teams, however, might be good matchup for a twin-towers houston. Teams like the Memphis Grizzlies or the Los Angeles Clippers may be vulnerable to stalwart defense inside, and large bodies to out-rebound on both sides of the glass. This would require savvy rotations from Houston, however, something which the Rockets haven’t yet proven to be a strong point.

Demoting Ömer Aşık fully to a bench player would seem to be the easiest option, but in the end may be the worst. He’d provide plenty of rest for Howard and anchor the defense for 48 minutes a game, but he would likely only play for 15-20 minutes a night, far below what he’s become used to. A simple reserve position would also likely do nothing to mitigate his morale, making his value and chemistry drop further. If general manager Daryl Morey wanted to find reasons to trade Ömer Aşık, this would probably be the right choice. It’s hard not to see the situation coming to a head unless the Rockets were to win 90% of their games with Ömer Aşık on the bench.

With Houston starting training camps ludicrously early this year, there’s no way to know what to expect. They seem to be devoted to finding a chemistry and game plan that will work for all players involved. Nobody known the disposition of Houston’s players better than Houston’s front office, and there’s no doubt they’ll exhaust all possibilities in an effort to prepare for a Finals appearance as soon as possible. Don’t be surprised when strange things happen in Houston. But maybe don’t expect Dwight Howard to shoot threes, either.

 

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Total comments: 130
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    i'll generally note that season , the Spurs were eliminated in the first round, so while a great team, there were enough warning signs there to force their hands, and that was really when they started to shift their game to it's current form, people assume that because the big 3 is still there they're always the same, but the Spurs in the last couple years since the George Hill trade made an amazing overhaul of the way they played.

    IF we talk about say.. the top 5 teams from last season, aka the 4 conference finals teams + OKC, none of them changed their starting lineup at all. the biggest changes was probably Kevin Martin leaving , and that was mostly out of the control of OKC.

    I agree, which is one of the reasons I said a third team might be involved.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Oh I don't disagree in general, I'd just like to point out, that you mentioned the desperation part, I mean to point out that teams that are desperate are those that are on the borderline of making the playoffs, those teams are unlikely to give you pieces that help us in the short term because they need those pieces just as much, chance are you get a mid first round pick or a rookie that's overmatched, which seems not very ideal to trade Asik for.

    Agreed for, these ideas are just fan's fantasy and overrating their teams, but they will come back to reality when the season starts. Or not.

  • RollingWave says 8 months ago

    Oh I don't disagree in general, I'd just like to point out, that you mentioned the desperation part, I mean to point out that teams that are desperate are those that are on the borderline of making the playoffs, those teams are unlikely to give you pieces that help us in the short term because they need those pieces just as much, chance are you get a mid first round pick or a rookie that's overmatched, which seems not very ideal to trade Asik for.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago My mistake, I mistook you for RW
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Wait what? Was that directed at me? I wasn't being sarcastic.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago I agree, the mere notion that we could get a player as impacting for the Rockets as Kawhi has been for the Spurs sounds like a horrible point, so horrible that I don't blame you for taking a sarcastic jab, but believe it not that indeed was the notion I insinuated and I stand by it. You said so yourself, Asik is extremely valuable, so to assume we can't get a "cornerstone" player in return for Asik would be a contradiction upon yourself.
  • RollingWave says 8 months ago

    i'll generally note that season , the Spurs were eliminated in the first round, so while a great team, there were enough warning signs there to force their hands, and that was really when they started to shift their game to it's current form, people assume that because the big 3 is still there they're always the same, but the Spurs in the last couple years since the George Hill trade made an amazing overhaul of the way they played.

    IF we talk about say.. the top 5 teams from last season, aka the 4 conference finals teams + OKC, none of them changed their starting lineup at all. the biggest changes was probably Kevin Martin leaving , and that was mostly out of the control of OKC.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    every team makes changes, it just depends on what magnitude were talking about. For example the spurs kept their big 3, but trading away their back up pg wasn't a problem. Our situation isn't too different, we are contenders talking about trading a back up in exchange for a starter.


    And it netted them a cornerstone of their franchise in Kawhi. Good point.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    My conclusion is generally that, no one's ever not available / tradable, if Lebron is available Harden is totally on the table too for example. But at this point, I think the team should and would take a hard look at the current group, and we really should evaluate by mid season at the earliest. And if you look at successful teams, they rarely make major changes.

    every team makes changes, it just depends on what magnitude were talking about. For example the spurs kept their big 3, but trading away their back up pg wasn't a problem. Our situation isn't too different, we are contenders talking about trading a back up in exchange for a starter.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Like I said, way to cynical considering we don't know the exact details to this imaginary trade. Personally I'm very high on Ilyasova, and I see us being a better team with 36 minutes of him than 10-15 minutes of Asik. If we could get a pick from the 3rd team involved on top of that, it's just a bonus--not a problem.

    Asik will be playing at least 20 minutes because at backup C and a few at PF. If we have a top Defensive center as a backup then we don't have to work howard at full starter minutes and risk injuries.

  • RollingWave says 8 months ago

    My conclusion is generally that, no one's ever not available / tradable, if Lebron is available Harden is totally on the table too for example. But at this point, I think the team should and would take a hard look at the current group, and we really should evaluate by mid season at the earliest. And if you look at successful teams, they rarely make major changes.

  • RollingWave says 8 months ago

    Yeah, obviously we don't know what's available, so it's a case by case thing, I just would point out that the Rockets should not and most likely would not be pressured about trading Asik, the should only do it if a really good deal really comes alone.

    I like Ilyasova too, and he's probably available , Though with Sanders AND John Henson, I doubt they have huge incentives to get Asik, they might acutally might have more use for Jeremy Lin. given that they're shot creation at this point is a disaster ,

  • Cooper says 8 months ago


    Once Asik leaves in 2015 that drop off will happen anyway. A smart GM always looks ahead beyond 2 years from now. Look at Chicago, they were contenders before they lost Asik for nothing. If they were smart they would have traded Asik to Morey and get something in return, although they really should have signed Asik for longer than 2 years in the first place.

    Chicago is still a contender in the east although they clearly mishandled the asik/Gibson situation.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Asik is extremely valuable, the problem I see 2016 with your argument is this.
    The teams that would be desperate for Asik's service, is highly unlikely to give us anything that help us in the short term (since you know, they kinda need it too.), and I don't think trading Asik for picks make much sense for us given the relative timing of window.

    Like I said, way to cynical considering we don't know the exact details to this imaginary trade. Personally I'm very high on Ilyasova, and I see us being a better team with 36 minutes of him than 10-15 minutes of Asik. If we could get a pick from the 3rd team involved on top of that, it's just a bonus--not a problem.
  • RollingWave says 8 months ago Asik is extremely valuable, the problem I see 2016 with your argument is this.

    The teams that would be desperate for Asik's service, is highly unlikely to give us anything that help us in the short term (since you know, they kinda need it too.), and I don't think trading Asik for picks make much sense for us given the relative timing of window.
  • Steven says 8 months ago


    Once Asik leaves in 2015 that drop off will happen anyway. A smart GM always looks ahead beyond 2 years from now. Look at Chicago, they were contenders before they lost Asik for nothing. If they were smart they would have traded Asik to Morey and get something in return, although they really should have signed Asik for longer than 2 years in the first place.


    Yes and no. No one saw the arcane nature of the current CBA's rules coming until Morey dropped it on them. I'm sure the Poison Pill contract and the asinine way that the rules work for one team and one way for another was never brought up. And if Chicago had been able to take the salary cap hit the way the Rockets did, Asik would have stayed in Chicago at least for last year.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago Once Asik leaves in 2015 that drop off will happen anyway. A smart GM always looks ahead beyond 2 years from now. Look at Chicago, they were contenders before they lost Asik for nothing. If they were smart they would have traded Asik to Morey and get something in return, although they really should have signed Asik for longer than 2 years in the first place.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago However should you trade asik, you leave a huge drop off at backup C. Also don't tell me about Camby, he is an emergency only and would not be able to play backup minutes. Trading asik would also be a huge risk should howard get hurt again and you also lose the luxury of resting Howard a lot. Again like I said we don't need more draft picks when we are in win now. Also we would need to trade Lin too to get aldrige and it would have to be a multiple team deal. Please don't also tell me demo and smith can play backup C because they can't.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago


    Guys they have Sanders as the future at the C. Henson is the future at PF. Sova could be traded but a third team would have to be involved.


    Yeah I guess I should have specified. Them having sanders and Henson makes ilyasova more available but they would be looking for a wing player in a trade for him though or picks perhaps.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Guys they have Sanders as the future at the C. Henson is the future at PF. Sova could be traded but a third team would have to be involved.

    Exactly. Good to see someone thinking outside the box, great minds think alike ;)

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    I'd do asik for sova and unprotected first or work a package for Aldrige both would be unlikely though,plus they can always trade one of our other Pfs and in the case we are trading for a pf that isn't necisarily a star obviously the Pfs on our roster would have been underwhelming and you don't care if they get minutes.

    Its seems to me like the Bucks are in a building phase, so if we can get a third party involved willing to give the Bucks building blocks in exchange for Asik, and we throw in one of our PF's to the Bucks too, I see no reason why we can't get Sova from the Bucks + something from the third party (a 1st, or multiple 2nds).

    Just think, when the trade deadline comes, there's going to be several teams hovering around .500 wanting to make a stronger push--Portland and New Orleans are just two of the several possible teams that could be in that position. If Morey can create a "bidding war" for Asik, we might be able to get a very, very, nice return for him--this scenario beats the scenario where Asik walks in 2015 Free Agency by a mile.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Guys they have Sanders as the future at the C. Henson is the future at PF. Sova could be traded but a third team would have to be involved.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago I'd do asik for sova and unprotected first or work a package for Aldrige both would be unlikely though,plus they can always trade one of our other Pfs and in the case we are trading for a pf that isn't necisarily a star obviously the Pfs on our roster would have been underwhelming and you don't care if they get minutes.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    1. That's not going to happen. 2. We are in a win now, not get more draft picks to train more guys. Plus we already have all 1st round draft picks to reload for the near future but getting more would be redundant. 3. You still haven't answer what what to do with all those PFs, it would be a rotation disaster.

    1. Why not? Asik is one of the best defensive centers in this league, and a top 3 rebounder, he's extremely valuable.

    2. Exactly right, so upgrading at a position can help us win now.

    3. We can either trade one, or we can keep all 3 if we get a PF who can play more than one position which opens up more minutes at PF. Regardless, being 3 players deep at one position is perfectly normal.

    To add to all that, ofcourse it depends what we can get in return. If we can get someone like Aldridge or Love I would definately do it, or if we can Illyasova + picks I would do that too. There are plenty of possible scenarios, so saying "that's not going to happen" without knowing the exact scenario seems way too cynical to me.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago


    What if we could get more than just an upgraded PF or 6th man? What if we could could get multiple 1st round picks on top of that?

    1. That's not going to happen. 2. We are in a win now, not get more draft picks to train more guys. Plus we already have all 1st round draft picks to reload for the near future but getting more would be redundant. 3. You still haven't answer what what to do with all those PFs, it would be a rotation disaster.
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    We have too many PFs to trade Asik for another PF so before we get any ideas, we would need to move other people. However the best situation would be to keep him and let one of our PFs step up to be the 5th option.

    What if we could get more than just an upgraded PF or 6th man? What if we could could get multiple 1st round picks on top of that?

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    We have too many PFs to trade Asik for another PF so before we get any ideas, we would need to move other people. However the best situation would be to keep him and let one of our PFs step up to be the 5th option.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Sounds good for both basketball and business sense. Kicking Asik aside would reduce his immediate production and future value. Totally agree with you that this might be the solution if Morey kept Asik.

    I bet his value will be at an all-time high by the trade deadline when teams are more desperate.

  • Richards says 8 months ago

    I think that article does bring out an interesting point though, that the offense should be ok as long as it's running off Howard more than Harden in that sort of configuration.

    I've said this before, I think Howard + Asik will be a very likely lineup we use to finish games, because they'll almost certainly get stops better than any other lineup we can plausibly throw out there. and on the other end, using primary Howard post up, while not as efficient as running offense through Harden, does have the added value of generally slowing the game down, which .. when your winning... is preferable. (as it just downs the clock.)

    Now , the counter would be Hack a Howard, but in that case you'd still want Asik there anyway, since at the point offensive spacing is basically irrelevant as Asik space the floor no worse than Ryan Anderson when both are standing on the line watching Howard take free throws ;) and Asik is the better rebounding for the inevitable many misses.

    My guess is Asik and Howard will primarily share time on the floor together a the start and end of games, but in the middle parts they'll rarely share the floor. thus maximizing both the ability to have 48 minute none stop anchor and also a very useful lineup for protecting leads late in the game. but in the middle part, you'll see a system mostly like our system this past season, crazy pace led by Harden / Lin / Parsons, to try to build up said lead.

    Sounds good for both basketball and business sense. Kicking Asik aside would reduce his immediate production and future value. Totally agree with you that this might be the solution if Morey kept Asik.

  • Phyllise414 says 8 months ago

    ....overall, I think the issue is just timing. Morey is in all likelihood going to trade Asik for one reason or another.
    I think the big issue is whether or not our young PFs develop into a starting level PF. If they do then the pressure is really off to trade Asik.
    Then we don't have to have the cap space eaten up by Asik and have the benefit of keeping good D throughout the game by rotating Asik in for Howard.
    However, if Jones, DMo, etc... can't take the next step then most likely Asik is traded.
    ...the question then is to who?
    If LMA or Love really push to get out of their current homes then maybe, but only Portland really needs a quality center.
    What do we trade with Asik for LMA? Lin? maybe, if he shows marked improvement from last year.
    Anyway, I think the issue with Asik is that he is a great center and relatively cheap for his skill set. With everyone in the NBA knowing that we may need to trade Asik, they will low ball us in offers. The last thing we need is to sell out on game round defense in exchange for a B or B PF that doesn't really move the needle for the team.

    portland has lillard and they drafted a pg this year, don't think lin has room for that team..maybe asik + pick then jones or d-mo etc..

  • RollingWave says 8 months ago

    I think that article does bring out an interesting point though, that the offense should be ok as long as it's running off Howard more than Harden in that sort of configuration.

    I've said this before, I think Howard + Asik will be a very likely lineup we use to finish games, because they'll almost certainly get stops better than any other lineup we can plausibly throw out there. and on the other end, using primary Howard post up, while not as efficient as running offense through Harden, does have the added value of generally slowing the game down, which .. when your winning... is preferable. (as it just downs the clock.)

    Now , the counter would be Hack a Howard, but in that case you'd still want Asik there anyway, since at the point offensive spacing is basically irrelevant as Asik space the floor no worse than Ryan Anderson when both are standing on the line watching Howard take free throws ;) and Asik is the better rebounding for the inevitable many misses.

    My guess is Asik and Howard will primarily share time on the floor together a the start and end of games, but in the middle parts they'll rarely share the floor. thus maximizing both the ability to have 48 minute none stop anchor and also a very useful lineup for protecting leads late in the game. but in the middle part, you'll see a system mostly like our system this past season, crazy pace led by Harden / Lin / Parsons, to try to build up said lead.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    RAPM, is an asinine statistic.


    You watch too much First Take.
  • Steven says 8 months ago RAPM, is an asinine statistic.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    Dwight impacts the defensive end of the floor more than Harden impacts the offensive end of the floor.

    Agreed.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago Dwight impacts the defensive end of the floor more than Harden impacts the offensive end of the floor, and that's saying a lot.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago I'd say Howard is quite better overall, however harden is probably the number 1 Option on offense still (yet to be seen but, my guess) and will also be relied on more to close out games.
  • Losthief says 8 months ago

    two way player yes...offensive player, no. And he was talking about offensively in his post right?

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    Dude, if I didn't know better I'd swear you're imitating Steven, except you replaced Jeremy Lin with RAPM. No one mentioned RAPM! LOL

    Yeah, I'm bored. But I do think that Howard is a better player than Harden.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Dude, if I didn't know better I'd swear you're imitating Steven, except you replaced Jeremy Lin with RAPM. No one mentioned RAPM! LOL

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    Wasn't sure if I should create a new thread or revive one of the dozen threads where this topic has already been discussed, but there's pretty good new Grantland article titled:With Dwight Howard in the Fold, What Is Omer Asik's Future With the Rockets?Here's a snippit:

    Though the spacing works out OK for Howard post-ups, dribble drives will be another story. Simply put, there just isn’t enough room near the basket for six bodies (two big men, their defenders, the attacker, and his defender) to maneuver near the basket area to produce consistently good results. Take this Jeremy Lin drive, for instance:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm_H1VmWQc0

    Lin gets to the paint, but once he’s there, no space exists for him to either finish at the rim or find an open big man for a drop-off. The lane is too packed. Another example is this Harden 3 from a game this spring against the Nuggets:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5f4Uo57vC4

    This time everything is so clogged that Harden skips the notion of driving entirely. Being put in too many situations like this will take away Harden’s greatest strength — his ability to draw fouls. In general, a Howard-Asik frontcourt may limit Harden’s ability to attack so much that the dominant actions for that unit will be Howard post-ups and quick dribble handoffs after ball reversals. And how much good does an imposing defensive frontcourt do Houston if it marginalizes its best player?

    Good point, but with the arrival of Howard, Harden isn't the Rockets best player. Howard is undoubtedly a better player than Harden going by your favorite stat, RAPM. So, let's not go a little too crazy with this best player stuff.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Wasn't sure if I should create a new thread or revive one of the dozen threads where this topic has already been discussed, but there's pretty good new Grantland article titled:With Dwight Howard in the Fold, What Is Omer Asik's Future With the Rockets?Here's a snippit:

    Though the spacing works out OK for Howard post-ups, dribble drives will be another story. Simply put, there just isn’t enough room near the basket for six bodies (two big men, their defenders, the attacker, and his defender) to maneuver near the basket area to produce consistently good results. Take this Jeremy Lin drive, for instance:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm_H1VmWQc0

    Lin gets to the paint, but once he’s there, no space exists for him to either finish at the rim or find an open big man for a drop-off. The lane is too packed. Another example is this Harden 3 from a game this spring against the Nuggets:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5f4Uo57vC4

    This time everything is so clogged that Harden skips the notion of driving entirely. Being put in too many situations like this will take away Harden’s greatest strength — his ability to draw fouls. In general, a Howard-Asik frontcourt may limit Harden’s ability to attack so much that the dominant actions for that unit will be Howard post-ups and quick dribble handoffs after ball reversals. And how much good does an imposing defensive frontcourt do Houston if it marginalizes its best player?

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I think one piece of the puzzle I haven't seen discussed much is how many times last year, Asik looked completely gassed after playing a lot of minutes. Hopefully he's been continuing to improve his conditioning, but it seems reasonable that he would improve his per minute stats this year. It seems unlikely that he will be playing long minutes when he's exhausted from running up and down the floor. While he didn't have the greatest post moves or sticky hands, those problems should be lessened by less proficient defensive second units and being much more of a focal point for our bench offense.

    Basically, I think Asik will be running on extra energy, getting more quality touches, and be playing against sub-par players. All that should help him dominate when he's holding down the floor.

    Agreed.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    I think one piece of the puzzle I haven't seen discussed much is how many times last year, Asik looked completely gassed after playing a lot of minutes. Hopefully he's been continuing to improve his conditioning, but it seems reasonable that he would improve his per minute stats this year. It seems unlikely that he will be playing long minutes when he's exhausted from running up and down the floor. While he didn't have the greatest post moves or sticky hands, those problems should be lessened by less proficient defensive second units and being much more of a focal point for our bench offense.

    Basically, I think Asik will be running on extra energy, getting more quality touches, and be playing against sub-par players. All that should help him dominate when he's holding down the floor.

    I agree

  • Drew in Abilene says 8 months ago

    I think one piece of the puzzle I haven't seen discussed much is how many times last year, Asik looked completely gassed after playing a lot of minutes. Hopefully he's been continuing to improve his conditioning, but it seems reasonable that he would improve his per minute stats this year. It seems unlikely that he will be playing long minutes when he's exhausted from running up and down the floor. While he didn't have the greatest post moves or sticky hands, those problems should be lessened by less proficient defensive second units and being much more of a focal point for our bench offense.

    Basically, I think Asik will be running on extra energy, getting more quality touches, and be playing against sub-par players. All that should help him dominate when he's holding down the floor.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Asik has admitted he will be happy backing up dwight so can we stop the crazy trade rumors now.

  • thejohnnygold says 8 months ago

    Hi, Phyllise414. Welcome to the forum. That's not an uncommon opinion around here. Are you sure Minnesota would want Lin and Asik given that they already have Rubio and Pekovic which they seem to be quite happy with moving forward? Further, they just snagged Martin at SG and re-signed Budinger to play SF...I think they want to have a go with a healthy Love and see where they are at the end of the season.

    Also agree with the above.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    i hate to see asik go, but i would rather trade him because i have a feeling he wont like his role next season..he's too good to be a back-up now, and he realizes that.. i say asik+lin+first for k.love?

    If they make it 3 firsts and find a third partner for Pek while Minny gets value for him, it could work. I mean look at what the Lakers gave for Nash, the Nets for KG/Pierce, etc.... 3 1st round picks are the norm and you aren't getting an all-star(even an aging past his prime one) for less than 3 1sts.

  • Phyllise414 says 8 months ago i hate to see asik go, but i would rather trade him because i have a feeling he wont like his role next season..he's too good to be a back-up now, and he realizes that.. i say asik+lin+first for k.love?
  • Phyllise414 says 8 months ago hello everyone!i am new here so dont give me a harsh welcome..lol
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    It's going to be hard to trade lee's contract and I grantee they will not get return value for him.


    Don't need equal value, plenty of value in free agency of 2014.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I'm guessing you say based that on the assumption that Bogut won't stay healthy and Lee won't get traded by the deadline, which is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make, but I wouldn't completely dismiss the possibility of the contrary.

    It's going to be hard to trade lee's contract and I grantee they will not get return value for him.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    GS does not have even close to a top 5 defense and Barnes is going to get lost behind iggy.

    I'm guessing you say based that on the assumption that Bogut won't stay healthy and Lee won't get traded by the deadline, which is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make, but I wouldn't completely dismiss the possibility of the contrary.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago GS does not have even close to a top 5 defense and Barnes is going to get lost behind iggy.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I agree. They took 21.1 attempts from 16-23 feet (7th worst) where they made 40%, obviously that's still a very inefficient shot even for such a great shooting back-court, and I don't see them being contenders unless they severely cut down on those. They also need to get to the rim more (2nd last in attempts), and the free throw line more (tied for 16th in attempts).

    However, their playing style changed alot with Harrison Barnes in the playoffs, they took less mid-range shots and more 3's which was a step in the right direction especially considering their accuracy from that range (they shot 40.3% on 3's during the season which is equivalent to 60.5% on 2's). I fully expect to see David Lee get traded either at the deadline of off-season (which will open up enough cap space for max--scary), moving Barnes permanently to the starting 4 spot which will once again result in 3's falling like crazy.

    I'm usually not a believer in teams that don't take many shots at the rim, and I'm even less of a believer in teams that take a high amount of long 2's, but I love, love, LOVE 3's especially in today's game now that defenses have evolved. If the Warriors can cut down on the long 2's, and take more 3's, just like they did in the playoffs with Barnes at the 4, then that might be good enough to make them a top 5 offensive team despite their lack of shots at the rim. If they can also play defense at a top 5 level like they showed they're capable of in the playoffs, then that makes them a top 5 offense and a top 5 defense--contenders. I understand why you see it the way you see it and it makes alot of sense, I see it that way too but I also see another perspective too which also makes sense, so I guess I agree and disagree at the same time if that's possible.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Like I said earlier. They play by the jumpshot and you can't win titles by relying on your jumpshot to always fall. Denver was very injured and GS just got hot. They also gutted their bench for iggy and our bigs would dominated Bogut and lee. Major members of their team are also injury prone like Bogut and Curry.

    I agree. They took 21.1 attempts from 16-23 feet (7th worst) where they made 40%, obviously that's still a very inefficient shot even for such a great shooting back-court, and I don't see them being contenders unless they severely cut down on those. They also need to get to the rim more (2nd last in attempts), and the free throw line more (tied for 16th in attempts).

    However, their playing style changed alot with Harrison Barnes in the playoffs, they took less mid-range shots and more 3's which was a step in the right direction especially considering their accuracy from that range (they shot 40.3% on 3's during the season which is equivalent to 60.5% on 2's). I fully expect to see David Lee get traded either at the deadline of off-season (which will open up enough cap space for max--scary), moving Barnes permanently to the starting 4 spot which will once again result in 3's falling like crazy.

    I'm usually not a believer in teams that don't take many shots at the rim, and I'm even less of a believer in teams that take a high amount of long 2's, but I love, love, LOVE 3's especially in today's game now that defenses have evolved. If the Warriors can cut down on the long 2's, and take more 3's, just like they did in the playoffs with Barnes at the 4, then that might be good enough to make them a top 5 offensive team despite their lack of shots at the rim. If they can also play defense at a top 5 level like they showed they're capable of in the playoffs, then that makes them a top 5 offense and a top 5 defense--contenders. I understand why you see it the way you see it and it makes alot of sense, I see it that way too but I also see another perspective too which also makes sense, so I guess I agree and disagree at the same time if that's possible.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    You keep doubting them and they will keep coming back to bite you. You forget the only really old players are Duncan and Ginobli and Duncan is a big so that's not a problem.

    It will be OKC, spurs, clippers, and rockets as the top 4, but I honestly couldn't give you an order. It could go anyway.

    true, but Duncan and Ginobli are a big reason they have been this good this long. you can only keep patching the holes in the dam for so long before it burst. I agree it's possible for them to be in the top 4, but it will be much harder to get there than it was this year. that may proved to be to tall of an order for them. however only time will tell

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    I also think they will miss J-Jack and Landry more than they realize. as for the spurs I'm not so sure we didn't see a last ditch effort this year from them. they got to run out of gas at some point right? sometimes you don't get to just fade away.....sometimes it's sudden like falling off a cliff

    You keep doubting them and they will keep coming back to bite you. You forget the only really old players are Duncan and Ginobli and Duncan is a big so that's not a problem.

    It will be OKC, spurs, clippers, and rockets as the top 4, but I honestly couldn't give you an order. It could go anyway.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    Those are the reasons why I consider them a good team, but never a contender unless they got a big like hibbert or Gasol. Similar situation in Memphis where they will always be good, but never a contender unless they develop a better offensive game and reliable shooters. So watch out for the spurs.

    I also think they will miss J-Jack and Landry more than they realize. as for the spurs I'm not so sure we didn't see a last ditch effort this year from them. they got to run out of gas at some point right? sometimes you don't get to just fade away.....sometimes it's sudden like falling off a cliff

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    agreed

    Those are the reasons why I consider them a good team, but never a contender unless they got a big like hibbert or Gasol. Similar situation in Memphis where they will always be good, but never a contender unless they develop a better offensive game and reliable shooters. So watch out for the spurs.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    Like I said earlier. They play by the jumpshot and you can't win titles by relying on your jumpshot to always fall. Denver was very injured and GS just got hot. They also gutted their bench for iggy and our bigs would dominated Bogut and lee. Major members of their team are also injury prone like Bogut and Curry.

    agreed

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Agreed. If healthy, the Warriors are definitely contenders. I didn't think too highly of them until certain things came together in the playoffs and completely transformed how they looked:

    1. Bogut got healthy and was setting some very mean screens for Curry and Klay--a huge upgrade from Lee's screens
    2. Lee got injured, Barnes stepped in and changed everything, there was more floor spacing, Curry had so much more room to operate, and as a result the team's collective 3pt shooting amped up to a whole another level.

    That's more than just 2 things, but alot of those things were connected so it was hard to separate them. The way they dismantled the 57 wins Denver Nuggets was very impressive, and they put up a fight against the Spurs too until their lack of experience started to show in crucial spurts. Just by being healthier and more experienced they were already heading towards contender status, and the addition of Iguodala unquestionably gives them a huge push further in that direction.

    I can't wait to see the Warriors-Rockets rivalry now that both teams have amped up to contender status, I forsee it being even more intense than last season and I'm going to relish every moment.

    Like I said earlier. They play by the jumpshot and you can't win titles by relying on your jumpshot to always fall. Denver was very injured and GS just got hot. They also gutted their bench for iggy and our bigs would dominated Bogut and lee. Major members of their team are also injury prone like Bogut and Curry.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    They did REALLY well with Bogut/Lee being injured. They get both of those guys back and add Iggy. If they can stay healthy(big if) and Curry/Klay/Barnes continue to improve, how are they NOT contenders?

    Agreed. If healthy, the Warriors are definitely contenders. I didn't think too highly of them until certain things came together in the playoffs and completely transformed how they looked:

    1. Bogut got healthy and was setting some very mean screens for Curry and Klay--a huge upgrade from Lee's screens
    2. Lee got injured, Barnes stepped in and changed everything, there was more floor spacing, Curry had so much more room to operate, and as a result the team's collective 3pt shooting amped up to a whole another level.

    That's more than just 2 things, but alot of those things were connected so it was hard to separate them. The way they dismantled the 57 wins Denver Nuggets was very impressive, and they put up a fight against the Spurs too until their lack of experience started to show in crucial spurts. Just by being healthier and more experienced they were already heading towards contender status, and the addition of Iguodala unquestionably gives them a huge push further in that direction.

    I can't wait to see the Warriors-Rockets rivalry now that both teams have amped up to contender status, I forsee it being even more intense than last season and I'm going to relish every moment.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Coaching is the reason Howard is in Houston.

    Agreed, Mchale had to adjust his system to his players, not the players to the system like D'Antoni. That's smart coaching by Mchale and his knowledge will be invaluable for all of our bigs.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    They did REALLY well with Bogut/Lee being injured. They get both of those guys back and add Iggy. If they can stay healthy(big if) and Curry/Klay/Barnes continue to improve, how are they NOT contenders?

    They live and die by the jumpshot and lee is a defensive liability. Our bigs would dominate them and Harden is far better than curry.

  • Steven says 8 months ago


    Omer and Howard are similar players. We have talent , but Coaching will be our downfall.


    Coaching is the reason Howard is in Houston.
  • datruth says 8 months ago

    Omer and Howard are similar players. We have talent , but Coaching will be our downfall.

  • CC. says 8 months ago

    They did REALLY well with Bogut/Lee being injured. They get both of those guys back and add Iggy. If they can stay healthy(big if) and Curry/Klay/Barnes continue to improve, how are they NOT contenders?

    They lost Jarrett Jack didn't they? Along with other notable key bench players?

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago

    GS was just hot during their playoff run and then they burnt out. They are a good team, but not a contender like the spurs and us. GS is being seriously overrated and the spurs yet again are underrated. Never bet against timmy friend, never.

    They did REALLY well with Bogut/Lee being injured. They get both of those guys back and add Iggy. If they can stay healthy(big if) and Curry/Klay/Barnes continue to improve, how are they NOT contenders?

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    GS was just hot during their playoff run and then they burnt out. They are a good team, but not a contender like the spurs and us. GS is being seriously overrated and the spurs yet again are underrated. Never bet against timmy friend, never.

  • CC. says 8 months ago

    spurs #1...........I don't see it. granted they have denied father time his proper due, but he will win eventually. Yes they do have some young pieces, but their stars are nearing the end of the race. besides neal ( a key role player) is being released by them. they will be among the top 6 teams, but unlikely # 1 (IMO)

    Wait so, me being curious, who's your #1 seed out west if it's not the Spurs?

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    They should have lost to Golden state before they added Iggy..I realize they lost good bench players but they will be better then last year..I just don't think they will win enough games during the long reg season to keep up with us the clippers and golden state..they are good and have the best coach I just think we have better all around teams

    Check out my earlier comment on GS, they are very overrated and the only reason GS made it to the second round was they were very hot from the 3pt but then burnt out. They are not a contender like the spurs.

  • Rockets fan newton says 8 months ago


    Ya its good to be here, but Duncan is a big and they can last much longer in the league than a smaller player who relies on athleticism. As long as they keep managing his minutes, he will always be the most refreshed player on the court. Not to mention the spurs new rising stars.


    They should have lost to Golden state before they added Iggy..I realize they lost good bench players but they will be better then last year..I just don't think they will win enough games during the long reg season to keep up with us the clippers and golden state..they are good and have the best coach I just think we have better all around teams
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    welcome to the forum :rolleyes:

    I agree with what you say, but still father time has to run them down sooner or later. this may be that time

    Ya its good to be here, but Duncan is a big and they can last much longer in the league than a smaller player who relies on athleticism. As long as they keep managing his minutes, he will always be the most refreshed player on the court. Not to mention the spurs new rising stars.

  • Rockets fan newton says 8 months ago


    Woah now. I love my boys in red as much as the next guy but cripes! This is a freaking loaded paragraph here. You forgot that these teams are just as stacked as we are and some. OKC and MIA are just 2 teams that are more powerful than us. OKC has straight up bangers and Miami is LOADED with talent.

    Yea they are great..for two superstars and what else tho?..Ibaka can play..but no one is scared of him..if Durand and Westbrook fm don't score 60 combined I pick us in that game..all I'm saying is that we are the deepest team in the league and I'm not scared of anyone..we two true superstars and parsons and Lin who could be all stars..with 5 or so role players that can play really well..we have a more flexibility with our line up then anyone..like I said if Lin and Tjones improve on last year and fill their role like we need them too..I pick us in 7 games over anyone..lol and if they don't work out we ship then our with Asik for a major upgrade
  • Dmes says 8 months ago

    @rocket94

    1.Why Asik needs to develop a three? 10-16 footers is enough, and it's nothing new to him. Last year Asik took some midrange shoots. LMA mostly takes midrange shoots, and he is one of the best PF out there.

    2.The conventional wisdom is that Howard will play at 4, not Asik. Howard is as mobile as Zach Randolph ,and memphis is a top ten defensive team. One reason why Howard likes Asik, is probably because Howard wants to play Power Forward.

    3.The training with "the dream" can be considered as a Morey's bribe for Asik. Morey is gambling that a chance to work on offense with one of the best centers will keep Asik satisfied.

    4.Asik's led Bench mob was the big reason why Bulls was an elite defensive team for two consequetive seasons. If Joakim Noah + Omer Asik off the bench could work really well for Bulls in the past, I see no reason why Dwight Howard + Omer Asik off the bench can't work wonder for Rockets. granted, Chicago Bulls were in the east, so were Orlando Magic....

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    Trust me, it's the spurs.We can go big and easily out muscle the clippers and control the boards and the paint. The spurs always adjust and re-adjust, they aren't such silent killers because of all their basketball IQ and train talent, but because Pop is such a damn fine coach.

    welcome to the forum :rolleyes:

    I agree with what you say, but still father time has to run them down sooner or later. this may be that time

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    true asik may be on the bench during this period, but that's the beautiful part about what we have assembled. we can mix and match our lineup without losing much. other teams don't have this flexibility. besides with Howard in the game you can bet OKC will have perkins in the game. they have nothing else that is even close to matching up to him. I don't view OKC as our biggest threat...........the clippers are our biggest threat. if we meet OKC in the playoffs we should beat them

    Trust me, it's the spurs.We can go big and easily out muscle the clippers and control the boards and the paint. The spurs always adjust and re-adjust, they aren't such silent killers because of all their basketball IQ and train talent, but because Pop is such a damn fine coach.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Wait okay, I can see the decline of OKC in the west, and Golden State along with the Clippers will be a challenge for us, but the Spurs for the 4th and 5th seed? No way...this isn't a Spurs team that just has Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili. Green and Leonard have youth (kinda, but ignoring Green's defense they're potential borderline all-stars...maybe...in the east?) and talent and cannot be ignored, and they have plenty of role players in Neal, Splitter, Diaw, and Neals. But anyone can disagree with me on that-

    Here's an article and great read from Bill Simmons---

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9364555/tim-duncan-part-2

    ---speaking on Tim Duncan's career along with a little history of the Spurs. He makes the case and has admit it before, him along with hundreds of people have written off the Spurs in playoff and Finals run, age ruining their star trio, coach Pop losing his genius or whatever case, and just plainly not being a consistent contender. Which is the exact opposite of what the Spurs have been doing! Duncan has played a great season, a better one compared to his last few, Parker is being titled the best PG in the league, Ginobili still hasn't lost all of his touch, and Pop is being discussed in the same conversations as Phil Jackson! They would've made history if they would've won! Warriors need to sync Iggy in with time. Clippers don't even have a solid 9 man rotation w/ bench, which I'll admit was deep but Vinny never knew how to use it and now have a new coach to handle, OKC lost Martin and Reggie might not provide enough spark, and Grizzlies don't have Gay anymore which I think is still relevant as they lost their only real clutch shooter.

    And that's why Spurs are 1st seed to me. B)

    Spurs are always a contender. However the one up we have on the the thunder and the clippers is we are far deeper and we have talented big men who will control the paint and the boards and that's what wins in the playoffs. GS warriors are overrated, they have no talented big men, they gutted their bench for iggy, and they are a jumpshooting team. Which means you live and die by the jumpshot and they just got hot during the playoffs. But when curry twisted his glass ankle and the spurs defense shut down Klay, the splash brothers just disappeared and Harrison barnes rose from their shadows, but it looks like he will get lost behind iggy now... So Sad.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    What ever we do we keep him. When asik was on the floor last year we were a top 10 defense and when he wan't we were 28th, so that's why we had a bad defense average. However with dwight and asik we will have the elite 48 minute rim protection and with defensive minded Jones, everyone improving on defense, and hopefully Parsons becoming our good perimeter defender, we will have an elite 5 defense guaranteed along with top 3 offense, that doesn't mean contender, it means champion. Now get rid of asik, you can kiss that dream goodbye.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    I found this quote from Bill Ingram's twitter relieving:

    @phdhuangshan Asik is preparing to be D12's backup. I think it was agentspeak when he was "unhappy." He told me he would happily backup D12.

    welcome to the forum :rolleyes:this is good news.

    I had doubts, too, but I thought about it and figured the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe he's upset his role was diminished (ok, yeah I'm sure he was upset), but maybe he's also still happy to stay with this team.

    I agree......at least let's hope that's the case

  • panterica says 8 months ago

    Of course he would say that. He's not stupid. I don't believe him though.

    I had doubts, too, but I thought about it and figured the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe he's upset his role was diminished (ok, yeah I'm sure he was upset), but maybe he's also still happy to stay with this team.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Of course he would say that. He's not stupid. I don't believe him though.
  • panterica says 8 months ago

    I found this quote from Bill Ingram's twitter relieving:

    @phdhuangshan Asik is preparing to be D12's backup. I think it was agentspeak when he was "unhappy." He told me he would happily backup D12.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    spurs #1...........I don't see it. granted they have denied father time his proper due, but he will win eventually. Yes they do have some young pieces, but their stars are nearing the end of the race. besides neal ( a key role player) is being released by them. they will be among the top 6 teams, but unlikely # 1 (IMO)

  • CC. says 8 months ago

    I'm with you there..honestly I have OKC taking a big step back and fighting the Spurs for the 4/5th spot..I put Golden state ahead of them..I think bogut will play well this year..Goldenstate and the Clippers will be our only challenge this year..and I also agree that we are the deepest team in the league..we have a twin tower line up and a really good small line up with or without Dwght that can compete with anyone..and that's still with Lin Tjones and Dmo as ? Marks..if they play well at all I don't think the heat can see us in a 7 game series

    Wait okay, I can see the decline of OKC in the west, and Golden State along with the Clippers will be a challenge for us, but the Spurs for the 4th and 5th seed? No way...this isn't a Spurs team that just has Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili. Green and Leonard have youth (kinda, but ignoring Green's defense they're potential borderline all-stars...maybe...in the east?) and talent and cannot be ignored, and they have plenty of role players in Neal, Splitter, Diaw, and Neals. But anyone can disagree with me on that-

    Here's an article and great read from Bill Simmons---

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9364555/tim-duncan-part-2

    ---speaking on Tim Duncan's career along with a little history of the Spurs. He makes the case and has admit it before, him along with hundreds of people have written off the Spurs in playoff and Finals run, age ruining their star trio, coach Pop losing his genius or whatever case, and just plainly not being a consistent contender. Which is the exact opposite of what the Spurs have been doing! Duncan has played a great season, a better one compared to his last few, Parker is being titled the best PG in the league, Ginobili still hasn't lost all of his touch, and Pop is being discussed in the same conversations as Phil Jackson! They would've made history if they would've won! Warriors need to sync Iggy in with time. Clippers don't even have a solid 9 man rotation w/ bench, which I'll admit was deep but Vinny never knew how to use it and now have a new coach to handle, OKC lost Martin and Reggie might not provide enough spark, and Grizzlies don't have Gay anymore which I think is still relevant as they lost their only real clutch shooter.

    And that's why Spurs are 1st seed to me. B)

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago


    Woah now. I love my boys in red as much as the next guy but cripes! This is a freaking loaded paragraph here. You forgot that these teams are just as stacked as we are and some. OKC and MIA are just 2 teams that are more powerful than us. OKC has straight up bangers and Miami is LOADED with talent.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to expect us to be better than OKC. I think you underestimate how much D-12 will change the outlook of the games. he will cause a mismatch in our favor. also we are not without talents on the wings too. they have a jump on us in chemistry, but that's about it. I think they took a step back this year. wishing and praying lamb will turn into Harden this year might be a gamble that backfires on them. besides they only have ibaka in the box. I think they will be more worried about matching up to us. as for Miami, I think the playoffs runs they have had over the last 3 years are beginning to take their toll. which Lebron still looks like a freak of nature, wade appears to be breaking down and bosh is disappearing. so YEAH we are capable of winning it all. I'm not selling my team short.

  • bboley24 says 8 months ago

    I'm with you there..honestly I have OKC taking a big step back and fighting the Spurs for the 4/5th spot..I put Golden state ahead of them..I think bogut will play well this year..Goldenstate and the Clippers will be our only challenge this year..and I also agree that we are the deepest team in the league..we have a twin tower line up and a really good small line up with or without Dwght that can compete with anyone..and that's still with Lin Tjones and Dmo as ? Marks..if they play well at all I don't think the heat can see us in a 7 game series


    Woah now. I love my boys in red as much as the next guy but cripes! This is a freaking loaded paragraph here. You forgot that these teams are just as stacked as we are and some. OKC and MIA are just 2 teams that are more powerful than us. OKC has straight up bangers and Miami is LOADED with talent.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago OKC doesn't take a step back unless Westbrook isn't himself. I know Perk has been horrendous, but Ibaka Durant and Westbrook all improve every year. Until that trend stops I'm not going to count them out.
  • Rockets fan newton says 8 months ago


    true asik may be on the bench during this period, but that's the beautiful part about what we have assembled. we can mix and match our lineup without losing much. other teams don't have this flexibility. besides with Howard in the game you can bet OKC will have perkins in the game. they have nothing else that is even close to matching up to him. I don't view OKC as our biggest threat...........the clippers are our biggest threat. if we meet OKC in the playoffs we should beat them


    I'm with you there..honestly I have OKC taking a big step back and fighting the Spurs for the 4/5th spot..I put Golden state ahead of them..I think bogut will play well this year..Goldenstate and the Clippers will be our only challenge this year..and I also agree that we are the deepest team in the league..we have a twin tower line up and a really good small line up with or without Dwght that can compete with anyone..and that's still with Lin Tjones and Dmo as ? Marks..if they play well at all I don't think the heat can see us in a 7 game series
  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    That's interesting....I would definitely try to attack them in the post. Maybe even get D-Mo and Dwight in there together and post up D-Mo against Durant as well as Dwight vs. Ibaka....if we can get some fouls racked up that negates their offensive advantage pretty quickly. It may fail miserably, but with a 7' 260+ lb. D-Mo against skin-n-bones Durant in the post I like our chances.

    I do like the sounds of our bigger and improved DMo against skin-n-bones Durant in the post. Unlike Dwight, I think DMo has fantastic skill and dexterity in the post:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiL36cCkGpA

    For whatever it's worth, DMo ranked 5th (1.05 PPP) on post-up efficiency last season. Ofcourse, this is a very small sample (28 attempts) but I would love to see what happens with a bigger sample size.

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    I think 2016 is saying that it would be hard for both Asik and Howard to play against that Line up which I agree..it would be hard for Howard to keep up with Durant and Asik would have equal problems with Ibaka..I do think we have plenty of teams we can play them both with..Clippers Mem..sanatonio..i even don't mind Howard on Lee vs golden state..not saying I want them to start or even close out games together..just not against the idea of those two playing together vs some line ups out there..I really believe Tjones and Dmo will play good enough that won't need Asik to play with Howard that much..also I think we will want to play small ball alot with Casspi or Chandler at the 4

    true asik may be on the bench during this period, but that's the beautiful part about what we have assembled. we can mix and match our lineup without losing much. other teams don't have this flexibility. besides with Howard in the game you can bet OKC will have perkins in the game. they have nothing else that is even close to matching up to him. I don't view OKC as our biggest threat...........the clippers are our biggest threat. if we meet OKC in the playoffs we should beat them

  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago On defense it will work out some games. On offense it will work out very few games.
  • Rockets fan newton says 8 months ago


    disagree........we would beat this lineup. who among them is going to stop Howard? WE would pound the smaller players in the low post there by setting up the rest of what we want to do


    I think 2016 is saying that it would be hard for both Asik and Howard to play against that Line up which I agree..it would be hard for Howard to keep up with Durant and Asik would have equal problems with Ibaka..I do think we have plenty of teams we can play them both with..Clippers Mem..sanatonio..i even don't mind Howard on Lee vs golden state..not saying I want them to start or even close out games together..just not against the idea of those two playing together vs some line ups out there..I really believe Tjones and Dmo will play good enough that won't need Asik to play with Howard that much..also I think we will want to play small ball alot with Casspi or Chandler at the 4
  • CC. says 8 months ago

    Welcome to the forum CC!!

    Waiting to trade Asik in the Summer of 2014 to acquire a free agent isn't a guarantee. For one, whoever the Rockets might sign as a free agent would require his prior team to accept a sign and trade deal which certainly is not etched in stone. For instance, D12 was not a sign and trade free agent. The Lakers got absolutely nada, zippo, zero when D12 signed with the Rockets.

    If Camby joins the Rockets, I would expect he will play very limited minutes in the regular season with the goal of using his experience primarily in the playoffs. This should keep Camby healthy until he possibly becomes a rotation player. Who knows, perhaps the Rockets are clicking on all cylinders and Camby just becomes a towel waiver at the end of the bench during the playoffs. Camby, more than anything else. is an insurance policy in case one or more of the Rockets bigs go down to injury. And someone with many years of experience playing against all the bigs in the league.

    I agree with you that Asik is too valuable to be given away this early. However, if an incredible trade opportunity presents itself requiring Asik as a trade chip, I'm sure Morey and the Rockets won't hesitate. Until then, I fully expect Asik to be an important contributing rotation player for the Rockets.

    Thanks for the welcome :)

    Thanks for the lesson too on the sign and trade process. I'm a little new to this so as far as all the details go I can understand that Asik won't be easy to move. I've also read around here on others opinions and can say that you're right on Camby and I too agree that Morey might take some time on deciding if Asik is good here and now, or if he's tempted on doing a surprise Harden trade just like last season. Nevertheless it's great to be a Rocket fan right now. !

  • rockets best fan says 8 months ago

    Against OKC they would just go small ball.

    C = Ibaka
    PF = Durant
    SF = Thabo
    SG = Lamb
    PG = Westbrook

    That lineup would negate going big and turn it into a liability.

    disagree........we would beat this lineup. who among them is going to stop Howard? WE would pound the smaller players in the low post there by setting up the rest of what we want to do

  • thejohnnygold says 8 months ago

    That's interesting....I would definitely try to attack them in the post. Maybe even get D-Mo and Dwight in there together and post up D-Mo against Durant as well as Dwight vs. Ibaka....if we can get some fouls racked up that negates their offensive advantage pretty quickly. It may fail miserably, but with a 7' 260+ lb. D-Mo against skin-n-bones Durant in the post I like our chances.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Dwight will bully Ibaka and dominate the boards, butI wouldn't say that line-up gets killed defensively, the only bad defender in that line-up is Lamb.

  • Steven says 8 months ago

    Against OKC they would just go small ball.

    C = Ibaka
    PF = Durant
    SF = Thabo
    SG = Lamb
    PG = Westbrook

    That lineup would negate going big and turn it into a liability.

    That lineup gets killed on defense.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago Against OKC they would just go small ball.

    C = Ibaka
    PF = Durant
    SF = Thabo
    SG = Lamb
    PG = Westbrook

    That lineup would negate going big and turn it into a liability.
  • rocketrick says 8 months ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 16 Jul 2013 - 21:22, said:
    First of all, Asik is not shooting threes.

    In the Western Conference we are basically up against OKC, LAC and the Spurs and to a lesser extent Memphis. Doesn't having the ability to trot out 2 bigs help out and create mismatches against those teams to varying degrees. Don't the Rockets get all the boards and shut down OKC in transition plus close the lane down versus Durant and Westbrook. I just don't see the Clippers being able to break down the Rockets defense with lobs or by Paul penetrating and scoring points in the paint. With the Spurs the Rockets can shut down Duncan in the paint which would belong to the Rockets furthermore defenders could force Spur 3 point shooters off the 3 point line and let them drive into the bigs. As for Memphis I will take Howard/Asik over Randolph/Gasol everyday. Seems like a no brainer, it's about defense not offense.

    I agree. I would also add it's going to come down to matchups in order for Asik and D12 to get some playing time together on the court. For instance, you can't ask Asik and D12 to chase down a PF outside the 3-point line and expect good results. However, having both on the floor when matched up with the Grizzlies front line or the Clippers front line, certainly those are the games I would expect to see more of Asik and D12 together on the court.
  • rocketrick says 8 months ago

    2016Champions, on 22 Jul 2013 - 16:12, said:
    Well written article on Omer Asik's availability: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/houston-rockets-center-omer-asik-rightfully-available-wanted-193100201.html

    Here's a snippit:

    I can't argue with that at all. In fact, that's what I had been saying consistently all along during the D12 Sweepstakes, that Asik likely will have to be moved. The good news is the Rockets don't have to rush trading Asik and I believe his value is only going to go up over time simply because there are so few quality centers in the NBA these days. Based on Morey's proven methods, I expect the Rockets will at minimum receive full value when trading Asik, possibly even better than that. In Morey I Trust!!
  • rocketrick says 8 months ago

    CC., on 22 Jul 2013 - 20:53, said:
    Asik should stay this 2013/14 season! There's no one else I'd prefer left in this summer's free agency that I'd be willing to let Asik go for the C and PF position (LMA being an exception but even I don't like him too much to get rid of Asik..). I'm aware him being a bench player again isn't amusing for the guy but I'd make him wait till summer 2014 and ship him out in a trade for someone that's included in that '14 summer FA filled with stars (and I don't expect a star player in return). In my eyes if Camby does join the team I don't see him as a back-up center that could last a whole season including a playoff run. Smith's age can handle it longer but he hasn't become a solid back-up..yet. He needs to polish up.

    Asik is too much of a defensive value to be given away this early.

    Welcome to the forum CC!!

    Waiting to trade Asik in the Summer of 2014 to acquire a free agent isn't a guarantee. For one, whoever the Rockets might sign as a free agent would require his prior team to accept a sign and trade deal which certainly is not etched in stone. For instance, D12 was not a sign and trade free agent. The Lakers got absolutely nada, zippo, zero when D12 signed with the Rockets.

    If Camby joins the Rockets, I would expect he will play very limited minutes in the regular season with the goal of using his experience primarily in the playoffs. This should keep Camby healthy until he possibly becomes a rotation player. Who knows, perhaps the Rockets are clicking on all cylinders and Camby just becomes a towel waiver at the end of the bench during the playoffs. Camby, more than anything else. is an insurance policy in case one or more of the Rockets bigs go down to injury. And someone with many years of experience playing against all the bigs in the league.

    I agree with you that Asik is too valuable to be given away this early. However, if an incredible trade opportunity presents itself requiring Asik as a trade chip, I'm sure Morey and the Rockets won't hesitate. Until then, I fully expect Asik to be an important contributing rotation player for the Rockets.
  • rocketrick says 8 months ago

    ale11, on 22 Jul 2013 - 23:25, said:
    First of all, I want to make clear that I love Omer and I want him to stay. Having said that, the same principles that apply for Minnesota and Portland losing leverage in a possible trade as time goes by, apply for us as well. If we wait until next year, Asik will be paid 15 million, and I guess no owner will find it funny even though would only count 8 million against the cap. Hence, we lose leverage, but mostly, Asik loses tons of value.

    Other people have said similar things about Lin's contract.

    However, the $15 million in the last season is not that big of a deal in my opinion. Why? Assume Asik gets traded in February 2015 right at the trade deadline. About 60% of the regular season will already be over, that equals $9 million of Asik's last year's earnings. The Rockets can trade Asik for another player or players and draft picks equaling his salary slot (about $8.5 million) so the Rockets should be able to get good value back. In addition, they can include up to $2 million in cash to the team they trade Asik to (if necessary) which results in the acquiring team only paying $4 million of Asik's remaining salary for the 2014-15 season.

    Substitute Jeremy Lin for Omer Asik above and it's the exact same argument.

    In my opinion, though, I truly expect the Rockets and Morey will come across a deal they can't pass up with Asik prior to February 2015. But if not, his and Jeremy Lin's last year salary to me isn't a huge negative.
  • ale11 says 8 months ago

    First of all, I want to make clear that I love Omer and I want him to stay. Having said that, the same principles that apply for Minnesota and Portland losing leverage in a possible trade as time goes by, apply for us as well. If we wait until next year, Asik will be paid 15 million, and I guess no owner will find it funny even though would only count 8 million against the cap. Hence, we lose leverage, but mostly, Asik loses tons of value.

  • CC. says 8 months ago

    Asik should stay this 2013/14 season! There's no one else I'd prefer left in this summer's free agency that I'd be willing to let Asik go for the C and PF position (LMA being an exception but even I don't like him too much to get rid of Asik..). I'm aware him being a bench player again isn't amusing for the guy but I'd make him wait till summer 2014 and ship him out in a trade for someone that's included in that '14 summer FA filled with stars (and I don't expect a star player in return). In my eyes if Camby does join the team I don't see him as a back-up center that could last a whole season including a playoff run. Smith's age can handle it longer but he hasn't become a solid back-up..yet. He needs to polish up.

    Asik is too much of a defensive value to be given away this early.

  • 2016Champions says 8 months ago

    Well written article on Omer Asik's availability:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/houston-rockets-center-omer-asik-rightfully-available-wanted-193100201.html

    Here's a snippit:

    The first problem with keeping Asik is the fact that he can't play next to Howard. Forget what some of the analysts are saying, Howard plays best next to a forward who can stretch the floor. In Howard's best seasons in Orlando, he played next to Rashard Lewis andHedo Turkoglu. In the 2008-2009 season, the year that Orlando made it to the NBA Finals, Turkoglu and Lewis combined for 354 threes during the regular season (more than four per game). Orlando's offense revolved around lobbing the ball inside to D12 to get the defense moving, with the rest of the squad making the right pass and taking the right shots.

    Also, Orlando hadMarcin Gortatfor three and a half years, and the talented seven-footer never played big minutes next to Howard. If Gortat, who is a considerably better offensive talent than Asik, couldn't play effective offense next to Howard, why would Asik be able to? Asik has no shooting ability whatsoever, he doesn't have quick feet, and he isn't a great finisher, which will likely make him more of a liability in this year's offense than last year's offense. Even last year in Los Angeles, Howard had trouble playing next toPau Gasol, who is a better passer and considerably better shooter than Asik. If Gasol and Howard both struggled playing alongside each other, wouldn't that mean the Asik and Howard frontcourt has a zero chance of finding success together?

  • bboley24 says 9 months ago

    He has trouble with free throws. How will he hit a 3? Mobility is needed to get them off anyhow.

  • feelingsupersonic says 9 months ago First of all, Asik is not shooting threes.

    In the Western Conference we are basically up against OKC, LAC and the Spurs and to a lesser extent Memphis. Doesn't having the ability to trot out 2 bigs help out and create mismatches against those teams to varying degrees. Don't the Rockets get all the boards and shut down OKC in transition plus close the lane down versus Durant and Westbrook. I just don't see the Clippers being able to break down the Rockets defense with lobs or by Paul penetrating and scoring points in the paint. With the Spurs the Rockets can shut down Duncan in the paint which would belong to the Rockets furthermore defenders could force Spur 3 point shooters off the 3 point line and let them drive into the bigs. As for Memphis I will take Howard/Asik over Randolph/Gasol everyday. Seems like a no brainer, it's about defense not offense.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 9 months ago Dwight always shoots threes at the all star game. I wonder...
  • Alituro says 9 months ago

    So, what you're saying is we need to transform Asik into Mehmet Okur? Ain't gonna happen..

    Be rest assured, Morey has done all the shopping for players he needs to do for a while. Asik, in particular is the type of player that goes to a team in desperation to relieve themselves of talented malcontents , i.e, Love and LMA. And, this type of deal isn't began with Morey calling up teams, it's best done with Morey standing silent, forcing other teams to give up the goat. We will rarely see Howard and Asik on the floor except in the rare occasion where the matchups demand it. What we will see is 48 minutes of the most tenacious post in the league with fresh legs playing the entire time. Asik isn't going to be hurt by this, he's still bound to get 20+ minutes every game. The only one who suffers from us not getting 100% from Asik is himself. Ask Gortat how detrimental to his career it was coming off the bench behind Howard.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised if it came out, but I know it won't, that Morey's camp purposely leaked Asik's unrest (even if not true) to the media only to be quickly rescinded by himself as a non-option, just to sow the seeds of doubt in other GMs, all the while building high value in his asset. Genius, really.

  • miketheodio says 9 months ago

    no one stops an elite player. you can only contain them. team defense is what works against elite players.

  • Steven says 9 months ago That will be the most boring basketball. Asik and D12 on the court together = nap time. The Rockets offense will be stagnate and slow. No spacing and clogged lanes.
  • Richards says 9 months ago

    Bev can't slow down Durant/LeBron for sure. Yes, Parsons improve his offense more than his D. Still he can't slow those guys down either.

    Garcia showed some success against Durant but he ain't a starter and not sure he can do it consistently. We don't have any data for TJ, he is very athletic and has potential.

    Twin towers? My bet is we won't see that except for a few minutes together.

  • thejohnnygold says 9 months ago

    Garcia looked like a more tenacious version of Battier when he was here in Houston during the playoff series against OKC. As a 6'7" SG he has the size to move up and guard the bigger wing players. Parsons can play some D. We also have Patrick Beverley. T-Jones can play. We can also go twin towers (despite some people's aversion to it). Defense is of no concern--they will be solid once they get used to playing together.

  • Steven says 9 months ago Watch Jones become the "great" defender. Top 10 in blocks.
  • pharmag says 9 months ago

    My worry is Howard will leave after three years if he didn't get a ring or no appearance in finals.

    Assuming OKC (Durant) and Miami (LeBron) are top teams to beat, we might have to find top-tier defenders to slow down Durant/LeBron.

    Look at our predicted line-up Lin/Harden/Parsons/Jones/Howard, only Howard is an outstanding defender but he can't slow down smaller and quicker PF like Durant/LeBron. I hope we trade Asik plus some assets for a elite defender at wing.

    Don't forget that Parsons was one of the better defenders his rookie year and highly praised, but took more of a role on offense this past season with all the roster changes. I think he could be the wing stopper we need, but we shall see.

  • Richards says 9 months ago

    My worry is Howard will leave after three years if he didn't get a ring or no appearance in finals.

    Assuming OKC (Durant) and Miami (LeBron) are top teams to beat, we might have to find top-tier defenders to slow down Durant/LeBron.

    Look at our predicted line-up Lin/Harden/Parsons/Jones/Howard, only Howard is an outstanding defender but he can't slow down smaller and quicker PF like Durant/LeBron. I hope we trade Asik plus some assets for a elite defender at wing.

  • Rockets fan newton says 9 months ago

    No need to rush, we have him for another two years. With that being said, Morey is too smart of a GM to let a very, VERY, valuable asset walk away in 2015 without getting anything for him. Alot of teams are in need of elite paint protection and elite rebounding at the center position, and several of those teams are going to be hovering around .500 desperate for a boost. Certain teams will be more desperate than others, for example Portland and Minnesota need to convince Aldridge and Love that they're moving forward so there is reason to stay, Dallas might be desperate to make a push while Dirk is still capable of greatness. Asik's value at the trade deadline is going to be huge, and I'm sure Morey will capitalize as usual if he can get a deal where he feels he comes out on top and gives the Rockets a better shot at becoming a dynasty.

    I agree waiting is the right move..it allows us to keep Dwight fresh for the playoff run..keeps his min low and we could give him days off and start Asik like the spurs do lol

    ..i also think we need to see how good Lin and the Pf's do starting with Dwight and Harden..if they get the job done then moving them makes no sense..we could then move Asik for a scorer of the bench and another back up center..

    and I think the best and most Lilkly real reason to wait is that at the deadline there will be some teams that hope to go to the playoffs out of the picture..west is to good for both Portland and Minny to get in..and whichever one of them is losing,if not both..them love and/or LA are going to be screaming to get out..we would be ready and still the best trade option for them..Asik,Dmo,young assist of their choice,and future 1st round picks..they won't find better for a player that wants out at the trade deadline
  • Steven says 9 months ago

    - If shooting is easy to teach, there will be more Ray Allen than DeAndre Jordan
    - Smith is more athletic and has better post game. Switching position ain't easy. If Howard can't do that, nor Asik.
    - For benefits of all, better trade Asik. Not now but sooner than later though.

    Clutch is more athletic then Smith.
  • 2016Champions says 9 months ago

    No need to rush, we have him for another two years. With that being said, Morey is too smart of a GM to let a very, VERY, valuable asset walk away in 2015 without getting anything for him. Alot of teams are in need of elite paint protection and elite rebounding at the center position, and several of those teams are going to be hovering around .500 desperate for a boost. Certain teams will be more desperate than others, for example Portland and Minnesota need to convince Aldridge and Love that they're moving forward so there is reason to stay, Dallas might be desperate to make a push while Dirk is still capable of greatness. Asik's value at the trade deadline is going to be huge, and I'm sure Morey will capitalize as usual if he can get a deal where he feels he comes out on top and gives the Rockets a better shot at becoming a dynasty.

  • Johnny Rocket says 9 months ago

    Maybe we should put Asik at the point and trade Jeremy Lin.

  • rocketrick says 9 months ago If there really are a thousand college players that can shoot lights out then why are offensive stats falling off the cliff in College Basketball the past few years?

    I do agree that decent 3 point shooting can be taught. It's really more a matter of taking a tremendous number of practice shots then parlaying that into game action.
  • pimpfriedrice says 9 months ago

    "If shooting is easy to teach, there will be more Ray Allen than DeAndre Jordan"

    Ray Allen is an extreme example. There ARE more serviceable three-point shooters in the league than seven footers. A lot more. There are also a thousand college players a year that can shoot lights out that will never sniff the league. Part of that is because you can't teach elite athleticism, but you can teach decent three point shooting (this is the team's hope for both Moti and Jones, it seems).

  • rocketrick says 9 months ago The Rockets are in an enviable and unusual position in having 2 quality starting Centers. I expect the Rockets will take their sweet time and not rush into trading Asik just for the sake of trading. Instead, I would expect that Morey already has his eyes on certain players that would be a great fit for the Rockets and once he determines which can be traded for, I would expect Morey will structure another favorable trade using Asik as the lynchpin. In the meantime, the Rockets get 48 minutes of rim protection and an opportunity to try and find a way to play both Asik and D12 together to see if there's any chance of that somehow working out (doubtful but certainly worth the effort).
  • miketheodio says 9 months ago

    i dont see them playing together as starters. asik comes off the bench and plays 5 minutes with howard as a defensive stopper. 15 minutes on his own.

  • ale11 says 9 months ago

    Since Howard is much more mobile than Asik, it would be wiser to place Howard at PF in those 10-15 minutes per game. If the problem is that it would take space from Harden's driving lanes, then try to bench him as much as possible during those 10-15 minutes (he needs to rest at some point). An efficient rotation seems a hard task right now (given that it wasn't one of McHale's strengths last season), but it's doable as long as Howard cooperates a tiny bit and Asik's ego doesn't get bruised enough to start going public about wanting to be traded.

  • Richards says 9 months ago

    - If shooting is easy to teach, there will be more Ray Allen than DeAndre Jordan
    - Smith is more athletic and has better post game. Switching position ain't easy. If Howard can't do that, nor Asik.
    - For benefits of all, better trade Asik. Not now but sooner than later though.

  • John P says 9 months ago

    ....overall, I think the issue is just timing. Morey is in all likelihood going to trade Asik for one reason or another.
    I think the big issue is whether or not our young PFs develop into a starting level PF. If they do then the pressure is really off to trade Asik.
    Then we don't have to have the cap space eaten up by Asik and have the benefit of keeping good D throughout the game by rotating Asik in for Howard.
    However, if Jones, DMo, etc... can't take the next step then most likely Asik is traded.
    ...the question then is to who?
    If LMA or Love really push to get out of their current homes then maybe, but only Portland really needs a quality center.
    What do we trade with Asik for LMA? Lin? maybe, if he shows marked improvement from last year.
    Anyway, I think the issue with Asik is that he is a great center and relatively cheap for his skill set. With everyone in the NBA knowing that we may need to trade Asik, they will low ball us in offers. The last thing we need is to sell out on game round defense in exchange for a B or B PF that doesn't really move the needle for the team.

  • John P says 9 months ago

    I think just an NBA average jump shooter, to provide some spacing away from the lane would be enough....but it doesn't look like Asik is really built for that. Sort of a square peg trying to fit into a round hole.

  • timetodienow1234567 says 9 months ago You talked about bigs learning to shoot 3s but didn't mention Ibaka