≡ Menu

Golden State Warriors 102, Houston Rockets 99 – Down but not out

There are bad losses, Bad losses and BAD losses in the NBA. Losing to the Los Angeles Clippers by something like a thousand points was Bad. Losing to the Thunder and setting an NBA record for offensive dysfunction was BAD. Losing to the Warriors on their home turf in overtime? Every loss is bad, but this one was survivable. This was the first game after a strangely tepid trade deadline, and the Rockets nearly came from behind for the win. There are still issues to work out and defense to work on, but they’re the same issues and problems the team had yesterday. Losing stings, but this is pain you can live with.

As for the Golden State Warriors, they looked like the competitor everyone expected in the summer. Their offense was desultory, but so was Houston’s. Both teams were on the second night of a back to back, which tends to cause shooting to suffer and defense to become more important. The Warriors are the more steadfast defensive team, and at times it looked like Houston couldn’t get anything they wanted. When any Houston players found themselves open, they clanked the shot more often than not. Even at the free throw line, the poor shooting persisted.

If this sounds like time to panic, it’s not. James Harden had a monster 39 points on 14-27 shooting along with 4 rebounds and 5 assists. Harden took over the game late and looked like a star. He even defended David Lee quite capably on multiple occasions. If your Rockets Game Bingo has “good post defense from Harden” on it, you may have just won big. If, like the rest of us, it says “good post play from Dwight Howard” on your sheet, you’re out of luck. Dwight’s 24 rebounds and 4 blocks may have been huge for the team, but his 4-13 shooting and 3-8 free throws were cause for dismay. Jermaine O’Neal brought it to Dwight on both ends of the floor and enjoyed an amazing game, including a crucial block in overtime that prevented Parsons from taking the lead.

The biggest reason for concern for Houston was free throw shooting. At 16-25, any of those misses would have helped avoid overtime in the first place. The Rockets, while sporting dreadful numbers from the stripe to begin with, 64% as a team is a recipe for disaster. The downside is that there’s little to be done about it, but the upside is that this will largely correct itself with time and rest. It stings to know that those missed shots could have saved the game, but says little about Houston’s prospects.

There’s not much to be learned from a game where all but two players on the team shot less than 50%. There’s little takeaway from the end of the game except that James Harden and Steph Curry are both amazing. There’s no good reason to be afraid of Jermaine O’Neal any more than the day before. Ugly losses hurt, and seeing that win streak fall apart hurts even more. That’s all true, but in a mid-February regular season game, none of them are impossible to survive.

View this discussion from the forum.

in game coverage

{ 0 comments… add one }

Login to leave a comment.
Total comments: Merged
  • YaoMan says 7 months ago

    Please don't live in the past. In today, every players, including PG, must play both ways. Period. One trick pony ain't enough anymore.

    Not a fair comparison when both have a ball dominant 3 that runs point forward for vast stretches of the game

    I would have to agree with Willk that any comparison is fair since your post doesn't specify today's team with a certain style run offense. You stated above in today's game every player including PG must be able to play both ways. I think that's a pretty inaccurate statement seeing how Willk gave you plenty of examples and your original post mentions nothing about non ball dominate players who are not PGs as a criteria. Around the right team, a lot weaknesses can be masked. I don't know that any team has all starting 5 players that are great two way players as your original post indicates.

  • Willk says 7 months ago

    Not a fair comparison when both have a ball dominant 3 that runs point forward for vast stretches of the game


    And the Rox have a ball dominating 2 guard. Comparison is correct
  • bladad says 7 months ago

    Don't Live in the past? Ok, who has won the last two championships? Miami. Who is their starting PG? Mario Chalmers. Are you saying he is an offensively gifted player? He is averaging 9.7 PPG and Beverley is averaging 9.4. They are the same player. The Pacers have George Hill. He is averaging 10.9. What a great two way player. Guess One trick Ponies can win.

    Not a fair comparison when both have a ball dominant 3 that runs point forward for vast stretches of the game

  • thejohnnygold says 7 months ago

    JG: I just think we need a larger sample size before we can argue if he would be an efficient volume scorer. I just think its a combination of Lin being confident set of mind and being aggressive and also taking the shots that are given to him and not forcing shots. Which is a good thing that he isn't a JR Smith who jacks up shots regardless of the situation.

    Some of the teams on that list are good D, Toronto has a good D and he played well. But as I said larger sample size with maybe a total of 82 games should show a better stats or maybe even a 100.

    Well now we're coming full circle. The point of looking into it was that same sample size was being used to support Lin shooting more--I agree it is fairly small, but it's what is being used. That's my point. Most players can't sustain it. My opinion is Lin is one of those players.

    That Toronto game was a 2OT game where Lin played 45+ minutes to score 31 points. Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas, and Ross all fouled out of that game before it was done. Valanciunas only played 29 minutes--which works with the theory that Lin does much better when there is not solid rim protection in the game. His 9 free throw attempts also support that.

    We'll have to agree to disagree about the good defense teams.

  • thenit says 7 months ago

    JG: I just think we need a larger sample size before we can argue if he would be an efficient volume scorer. I just think its a combination of Lin being confident set of mind and being aggressive and also taking the shots that are given to him and not forcing shots. Which is a good thing that he isn't a JR Smith who jacks up shots regardless of the situation.

    Some of the teams on that list are good D, Toronto has a good D and he played well. But as I said larger sample size with maybe a total of 82 games should show a better stats or maybe even a 100.

  • feelingsupersonic says 7 months ago McHale told the players on the court to foul Steph as long as he wasn't in a shooting motion but Parsons couldn't get it done. That was a failure on Parsons part but he will learn and well some players you just can't stop and Curry is one of those.
  • YaoMan says 7 months ago

    I'm not sure it's about moving the needle or if they are taking away from the Rockets. As JG stated, Lin is a Rocket and until otherwise, his contributions or negligence will great affect the team.

    I think both Lin and Bev are equally important to the team and may not always show up on the box score or PER. Last night (vs the Suns) was one of the first times I can remember Bev having such an impact on the box score. His value has always been the intangibles and getting under the skin of the the player he defends.

    Lin can equally be effective without showing up on the box score as well. Against the Timberwolves on 2/10 when Harden didn't have his best game, I thought Lin settled the offense and got the ball moving. While he only had 2 points, he had 7 dimes, 3 boards, a steal and only 1 turnover. But the main thing was the team didn't miss a beat during the stretch he was playing.

    The same for Bev. He was clearly valuable in guarding perhaps the best dribble shooter in the NBA vs the Warriors. His 2 points, 5 boards, 3 dimes doesn't even come close to showing up his value. I think we need both Bev and Lin in key stretches as the both provide great value on and off the score board.

    The game against the Warriors taught the Rockets, even when they play that poorly all around (with the exception of Harden) that they could win a game. (I keep thinking to that last play in regulation where they could have fouled or double Steph immediately or even have a quicker rotation in protecting the basket.) Tough loss but they just need to continue to grow. And I liked what I saw from Asik too.

  • thejohnnygold says 7 months ago

    This post, like many in these Lin-related sub-threads, is a Rohrschack test. Either this clearly shows that Lin would be considered an All-star level player if he were a bigger focus of the offense, or it clearly shows that the number we are using is not a useful number, because Lin is clearly not in the same league as these players. I'm with feelingsupersonic--these chats aren't moving the needle.

    Ha, good call on the Rohrshack test. It wasn't intentional. For the record, I am not implying Lin belongs in that group. I do think that over the course of a season his numbers would dip and then people would be saying he shoots too much.

    I agree with the idea that Lin excels against weaker teams. Sorry, for those who are upset by the Lin talk. He is still a Rocket and I don't see a problem discussing his play when it revolves around facts (instead of the yellow journalism we were getting). Feel free to not read any further as I am most definitely discussing Lin--here is some evidence on his offensive outputs:

    0ulgk9h.jpg

    I couldn't screen cap the whole thing, but the point is pretty clear here. Here is a link to the rest: LINK

    That is a who's who of bad defenses. The Memphis games were when their bigs were injured. Also, the San Antonio game highlighted was when they were all hurt. Probably the best defense in that list is the Clips...and they are probably around 10th best or so in the league--maybe Washington when they are healthy, but they are inconsistent and I am not sure why Gortat only played 20 minutes that game.

    Meanwhile, the bottom half of that chart is filled with the likes of OKC, Portland, GS, healthy Memphis, and the Clips. He also struggled against teams like Milwaukee and New Orleans--both have good shot blockers.

    For me, the evidence is compelling enough to say Lin does not belong on that list of efficient volume shooters.

  • Sir Thursday says 7 months ago

    There does seem to be an interesting correlation here, but as everyone should know "correlation does not imply causation". Lin takes the shots the defence gives him - when he penetrates, he will look to score if he can but otherwise will dump off or kick out. I suspect that against bad teams the help defence is not there to stop him from scoring, whereas better defensive teams provide enough rim protection to force the pass. In addition, some teams will have good defence at the point of attack and so will prevent those driving opportunities altogether. Since Lin avoids mid-range shots, this manifests itself in taking fewer shots overall.

    So it may well be that the number of Lin's shot attempts is strongly correlated with poor point-guard and interior defence, which probably correlates with bad teams. And the Rockets should be able to beat bad teams! I don't think it's clear that it is Lin's shot-taking or lack thereof that's making a difference in and of itself, but it may well be a useful indicator to show when the opposition's defence is weak/poorly thought out.

    ST

  • Buckko says 7 months ago I refuse to post on Lin related discussions now because they are completly unproductive and I wish that more members will refuse as well. They completly take away what this site is about, the Houston Rockets.
  • Willk says 7 months ago

    Please don't live in the past. In today, every players, including PG, must play both ways. Period. One trick pony ain't enough anymore.

    Don't Live in the past? Ok, who has won the last two championships? Miami. Who is their starting PG? Mario Chalmers. Are you saying he is an offensively gifted player? He is averaging 9.7 PPG and Beverley is averaging 9.4. They are the same player. The Pacers have George Hill. He is averaging 10.9. What a great two way player. Guess One trick Ponies can win.

  • linonlyfan says 7 months ago

    Outside the numbers, Patrick Beverley simply gives off a aura of competition. Sometimes this team can get a little too laid back on defence. While 5 rebounds is not that cool, some of the rebounds are on the offensive end saving posessions and I think thats just a massive boost to team morale. Also because he is literally the first line of defense, picking up opposing point guards from midcourt or earlier, he sends a huge message to the team saying lets play defense.

    Lin is fairly easy to understand. He is a confidence guy, gets in a rhythm and gets going. So yeah he gets more efficient the more involved he is. But sometimes, its not about lack of the team making room for him, sometimes he just doesn't have it somehow (can't cleanly beat his man, shot not falling) and he tends to shrink from being involved (managing his overall FG%???). In NY, D'Antoni just rode him to wins or losses. We can do better as the Houston Rockets. I feel like Harden, Parsons and Beverley get going when they face adversity, while Jones, Lin and Howard have a bit less of that ability.

    Anyway, I think my point is, be careful of using statistics blindly. Its also important to understand causality. Maybe its not Lin shoots more = Houston wins, maybe its more when Lin is hot, he shoots more and Houston has a hugely increased chance to win. Either way, he clearly needs to understand his role as 6th man better and learn to stay aggressive when things are not going well.

    The same with Iso ball, maybe its not Harden clears out therefore team offense struggles, maybe its team offense struggles therefore Harden goes to a clearout. Team offense especially against a disruptive defence is much harder to teach than just telling Harden not to go 1-4 flat. You need at a minimum 3-4 players moving in sync and reading the defence in sync. There is a reason Gregg Popovich runs his sets in practice endlessly.

  • dbd says 7 months ago

    How did the Bulls win 6 championships with PGs that could only play one way? BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Randy Brown were all either defensive or offensive players not both way players

    Please don't live in the past. In today, every players, including PG, must play both ways. Period. One trick pony ain't enough anymore.

  • Knickabokkaz says 7 months ago

    This post, like many in these Lin-related sub-threads, is a Rohrschack test. Either this clearly shows that Lin would be considered an All-star level player if he were a bigger focus of the offense, or it clearly shows that the number we are using is not a useful number, because Lin is clearly not in the same league as these players. I'm with feelingsupersonic--these chats aren't moving the needle.


    It's like saying, my eyes say "damn Joakim Noah has an ugly free throw shot, Dwight's free throw shot LOOKS better so he must shoot better then Noah" but in reality, #s wise Noah shoots a much better % but you just don't want to believe it from your own perception.
  • lawprofsr says 7 months ago

    Sorry for continuing, but I'm interested now....Volume shooting is an interesting thing. There are only 13 players in the NBA sporting a fg% at or above Lin's 45.9% that shoot 11+ times per game who are not interior/post players (there are 34 total in the league counting the post guys). Here is that list:

    Lebron James

    Dwyane Wade

    Kevin Durant

    Goran Dragic

    Tony Parker

    Lance Stephenson

    Chandler Parsons

    Dirk Nowitzki

    Eric Bledsoe

    Aaron Afflalo

    Steph Curry

    Chris Paul

    JJ Redick

    This post, like many in these Lin-related sub-threads, is a Rohrschack test. Either this clearly shows that Lin would be considered an All-star level player if he were a bigger focus of the offense, or it clearly shows that the number we are using is not a useful number, because Lin is clearly not in the same league as these players. I'm with feelingsupersonic--these chats aren't moving the needle.

  • Knickabokkaz says 7 months ago

    Sorry for continuing, but I'm interested now....Volume shooting is an interesting thing. There are only 13 players in the NBA sporting a fg% at or above Lin's 45.9% that shoot 11+ times per game who are not interior/post players (there are 34 total in the league counting the post guys). Here is that list:

    Lebron James
    Dwyane Wade
    Kevin Durant
    Goran Dragic
    Tony Parker
    Lance Stephenson
    Chandler Parsons
    Dirk Nowitzki
    Eric Bledsoe
    Aaron Afflalo
    Steph Curry
    Chris Paul
    JJ Redick

    (Only 9 of these guys are guards)

    That is some elite company there. Typically, the more shots you take the more likely your fg% takes a dip. The fact that these guys are taking 11+ shots per game and shooting a fairly good % speaks volumes about them. Until a player proves they can sustain such efficiency across a season shooting that many shots I am skeptical of their high fg%. For the record, Lin's fg% in those 17 games with 11+ shots barely makes the cut at 46.1%.

    Some interesting notes (based on guys who shoot 11+ shots per game and avg. more than 45.9%):

    LeBron James and Dwight Howard are tied for 1st in the league at 57.7%fg

    Durant is averaging 50.9% taking 20.5 shots per game :o

    Aldridge (21 fga at 46.6%) and Carmelo (21.8 fga at 45.3%) take the most shots of this group

    Miami's Big 3 all made the list

    Other teams with 3 players on this list: Clippers (Griffin, Paul, Redick) (The Rockets were close but Harden comes in at 45.1%, and the Pacers just missed with Paul George at 44.2%)

    When you raise the bar to 16+ shots/game the list dwindles to 8 players: LeBron James, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Al Jefferson, DeMarcus Cousins, LaMarcus Aldridge, Steph Curry, Kevin Love.

    All stats from NBA.com & basketball-reference.com


    Be careful JG, you might called a Lin fan after this post.
  • thejohnnygold says 7 months ago

    Sorry for continuing, but I'm interested now....Volume shooting is an interesting thing. There are only 13 players in the NBA sporting a fg% at or above Lin's 45.9% that shoot 11+ times per game who are not interior/post players (there are 34 total in the league counting the post guys). Here is that list:

    Lebron James

    Dwyane Wade

    Kevin Durant

    Goran Dragic

    Tony Parker

    Lance Stephenson

    Chandler Parsons

    Dirk Nowitzki

    Eric Bledsoe

    Aaron Afflalo

    Steph Curry

    Chris Paul

    JJ Redick

    (Only 9 of these guys are guards)

    That is some elite company there. Typically, the more shots you take the more likely your fg% takes a dip. The fact that these guys are taking 11+ shots per game and shooting a fairly good % speaks volumes about them. Until a player proves they can sustain such efficiency across a season shooting that many shots I am skeptical of their high fg%. For the record, Lin's fg% in those 17 games with 11+ shots barely makes the cut at 46.1%.

    Some interesting notes (based on guys who shoot 11+ shots per game and avg. more than 45.9%):

    LeBron James and Dwight Howard are tied for 1st in the league at 57.7%fg

    Durant is averaging 50.9% taking 20.5 shots per game :o

    Aldridge (21 fga at 46.6%) and Carmelo (21.8 fga at 45.3%) take the most shots of this group

    Miami's Big 3 all made the list

    Other teams with 3 players on this list: Clippers (Griffin, Paul, Redick) (The Rockets were close but Harden comes in at 45.1%, and the Pacers just missed with Paul George at 44.2%)

    When you raise the bar to 16+ shots/game the list dwindles to 8 players: LeBron James, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Al Jefferson, DeMarcus Cousins, LaMarcus Aldridge, Steph Curry, Kevin Love.

    All stats from NBA.com & basketball-reference.com

  • miketheodio says 7 months ago

    Not sure why forum members continue with the Lin stuff, we all know each other well enough to know where we stand. I like Lin as the 6th man and Beverly starting, it seems obvious.

    Going back to the original problems of the Golden State game the Rockets cannot win in any scenario where the Jones/Motiejunas tandem gives McHale nothing and Parsons shoots thinking he is as great as Harden while Howard gets neutralized offensively.

    I watched the game again and Parsons' decision making seems to get worse as the game goes on, probably more poor choices by him at both ends that really cost the Rockets the game which I think is still a good loss.

    it is pretty nuts the rockets almost pulled it out without the front court doing as well as they normally do.

    I didn't mind parsons. ill have to rewatch the game, but he was the only one, other than harden, who seemed to create more opportunities. everyone else was getting shut down.

  • feelingsupersonic says 7 months ago

    Not sure why forum members continue with the Lin stuff, we all know each other well enough to know where we stand. I like Lin as the 6th man and Beverly starting, it seems obvious.

    Going back to the original problems of the Golden State game the Rockets cannot win in any scenario where the Jones/Motiejunas tandem gives McHale nothing and Parsons shoots thinking he is as great as Harden while Howard gets neutralized offensively.

    I watched the game again and Parsons' decision making seems to get worse as the game goes on, probably more poor choices by him at both ends that really cost the Rockets the game which I think is still a good loss.

  • Willk says 7 months ago

    I think he's just not the type to step on someone's toes. He's not the type to say, hey your shooting like crap, stop shooting, he's going to play his role. be passive and just live with the results. He has to play the role of scorer first when Harden isn't on the court, then make sure others are getting good shots and be an extension of the coach.

    check out this chart. look at all the "scoring" pg's and match it up with Lin's stats. Like I said before and its the weirdest thing with Lin, the MORE shots he takes and is involved in the game, the most EFFICIENT he is.

    08xv.png

    notice there are only 4 other players with a higher FG% then Lin but he only averages 9.5 FG attempts per games.

    11+ shots per game chart W-L 16-1

    7r4s.png

    Yo B - Interesting that you cut the list off at number 24. Let's look at rest of the list:

    24 Jeremy Lin, PG HOU 45 30.9 13.1 4.4-9.5 .459 1.1-3.3 .345 3.2-4.0 .802 25 Trey Burke, PG UTAH 43 31.0 12.8 4.9-13.0 .375 1.7-4.9 .336 1.4-1.6 .910 26 Jameer Nelson, PG ORL 52 32.7 12.5 4.4-11.2 .395 2.2-6.0 .367 1.5-1.7 .876 27 Jose Calderon, PG DAL 56 31.2 11.6 4.2-9.4 .449 2.4-5.4 .444 0.7-0.8 .809 28 D.J. Augustin, PG CHI/TOR 44 25.6 11.3 3.7-9.0 .411 1.8-4.2 .424 2.2-2.5 .898 29 George Hill, PG IND 52 31.1 10.9 3.8-8.3 .454 1.4-3.6 .378 2.0-2.4 .831 30 Raymond Felton, PG NY 40 32.8 10.5 4.2-10.4 .400 1.0-3.3 .288 1.2-1.7 .706 RK PLAYER TEAM GP MPG PTS FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% 31 Ramon Sessions, PG MIL/CHA 56 23.7 10.4 3.4-8.4 .406 0.3-1.2 .221 3.4-4.3 .783 Kendall Marshall, PG LAL 27 32.6 10.4 4.1-9.0 .453 1.9-4.0 .477 0.4-0.7 .611 Nate Robinson, PG DEN 44 19.7 10.4 3.7-8.7 .428 1.3-3.5 .377 1.6-1.9 .835 34 Rajon Rondo, PG BOS 12 28.5 10.2 4.3-11.1 .383 1.0-2.8 .353 0.7-1.1 .615 35 Darren Collison, PG LAC 57 23.2 10.0 3.5-7.5 .460 0.7-1.9 .369 2.3-2.7 .864 36 Patty Mills, PG SA 56 18.2 9.9 3.7-7.9 .468 1.6-3.8 .410 1.0-1.1 .875 37 Mario Chalmers, PG MIA 47 29.1 9.7 3.4-7.2 .466 1.2-3.1 .390 1.8-2.4 .757 38 Patrick Beverley, PG HOU 37 31.9 9.4 3.4-8.5 .394 1.6-4.5 .345 1.1-1.4 .804 39 Mo Williams, PG POR 51 24.4 9.3 3.6-9.0 .399 1.1-3.0 .375 1.0-1.1 .875 40 Jordan Farmar, PG LAL 25 21.4 9.2 3.5-8.4 .414 1.4-3.3 .410 0.9-1.2 .733

    Notice Collison, Mills, Chalmers. All are more efficient than Lin and ONLY shoot 7 times a game. So should they be shooting more?

  • miketheodio says 7 months ago

    yes, he's talented. the problem has to do with how his skill set fits the team. it happens to be as the 6th man role. if it was the MDA lakers, it would be a starting role and he'd do well with that sort of system. i still think he is weaker when defenses are set in the half court. is bev better or equal? no. that isn't the point. the point is other positions are responsible for creating offense in half court situations.

    it's not like people argue the ball should be in george hill's hands over paul george.

  • Cooper says 7 months ago All but 4 of those teams are well under .500 making the 16-1 record in against them mostly irrelevant. Lin should generally shoot more than Bev and a little less than parsons harden and Howard which is usually what happens there's just a few times he shines and a few times he disappears in between that it seems are focused on too much from either perspective.
  • Knickabokkaz says 7 months ago

    Ah, yeah...I was thinking about the W/L numbers from when Lin starts w/o Harden not when he shoots 11+ shots. My bad. I agree with you that the Rockets are better when Lin is taking more shots. I do think Lin should get 12+ shots a game. I also think it should come as a 6th man with Beverley starting beside Harden.

    I think Parsons was 8-24 (3-10 from 3 if memory serves) in the GS game. Lin was 3-8. I don't know why there was such a disparity, but Lin could definitely have taken more shots...not sure it would have changed anything though.

    I think he's just not the type to step on someone's toes. He's not the type to say, hey your shooting like crap, stop shooting, he's going to play his role. be passive and just live with the results. He has to play the role of scorer first when Harden isn't on the court, then make sure others are getting good shots and be an extension of the coach.

    check out this chart. look at all the "scoring" pg's and match it up with Lin's stats. Like I said before and its the weirdest thing with Lin, the MORE shots he takes and is involved in the game, the most EFFICIENT he is.

    08xv.png

    notice there are only 4 other players with a higher FG% then Lin but he only averages 9.5 FG attempts per games.

    11+ shots per game chart W-L 16-1

    7r4s.png

  • miketheodio says 7 months ago

    How did the Bulls win 6 championships with PGs that could only play one way? BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Randy Brown were all either defensive or offensive players not both way players

    exactly. you don't need a star PG to win a championship. just a solid role player if you have stars in other positions.

  • Willk says 7 months ago

    Lol JG those #s I posted were just this year

    Yo B - More numbers. Rockets are 7-2 with everybody except Lin or Lin plays 1q or less. The last time Lin shotthe ball 11 or more times was against the Lakers.The Rockets would have won that game w/ or w/o Lin shooting 11 times.

  • Willk says 7 months ago

    This is not NFL. In NBA, players have to play both ways. Saying "not a big deal" to a player inability to play one side is ridiculous at least.

    You need to play both ways to win a championship. Chalmers play both ways and he doesn't have to cover defense for Wade and LeBron.

    How did the Bulls win 6 championships with PGs that could only play one way? BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Steve Kerr, Randy Brown were all either defensive or offensive players not both way players

  • thejohnnygold says 7 months ago

    Lol JG those #s I posted were just this year

    Ah, yeah...I was thinking about the W/L numbers from when Lin starts w/o Harden not when he shoots 11+ shots. My bad. I agree with you that the Rockets are better when Lin is taking more shots. I do think Lin should get 12+ shots a game. I also think it should come as a 6th man with Beverley starting beside Harden.

    I think Parsons was 8-24 (3-10 from 3 if memory serves) in the GS game. Lin was 3-8. I don't know why there was such a disparity, but Lin could definitely have taken more shots...not sure it would have changed anything though.

  • dbd says 7 months ago

    This is not NFL. In NBA, players have to play both ways. Saying "not a big deal" to a player inability to play one side is ridiculous at least.

    You need to play both ways to win a championship. Chalmers play both ways and he doesn't have to cover defense for Wade and LeBron.

  • Knickabokkaz says 7 months ago

    Knick, you know that including his Linsanity numbers is a fallacy :P .


    Lol JG those #s I posted were just this year
  • miketheodio says 7 months ago

    JG should I say anything?

    I'll just post a stat when it compares to starting scoring pg's in the league that average more then 11-12 shots per game with a much higher usage rate:

    In all games Lin has 11+ FG attempts:

    46% FG%, 36% from 3, 18ppg, 5 assists.

    Win-Loss record in those games : 16-1

    it's more about style of play than numbers.

  • Dayak says 7 months ago Good analogy JG and you succesfully make me feel hungry now, lol.
  • thejohnnygold says 7 months ago

    Knick, you know that including his Linsanity numbers is a fallacy :P . We've all seen the numbers. That's not what's under question. We know Jeremy can score. Despite rm90025's repetitive post (4th time?) that Lin can shut down every major point guard in the game (which I simply won't take the time to refute again) it is Beverley that does the defending. Find any statistical (adjusted or otherwise) +/- stat that says different. I can't. I also use my eyeballs. They concur.

    Check out this guy's website: Weird URL, But Great B-Ball Stats

    That is done on the same tableau software that Richard Li uses. There is tons of data on his site--not just that chart--enjoy.

    I do believe that one has to look at team performance when it comes to defense. No single player makes it happen. Yes, centers are the linchpins, but without 4 other guys doing their jobs it doesn't work. When Bev is on the court the defense is better. People can say all they want about it but it doesn't change that fact. Our offense is better when he plays too (I realize this is aided by playing next to Harden, Howard, and Parsons). Basically, when Bev is on the court our team hums like a well-oiled machine.

    It's funny, Bev's head to head numbers are all negative when you compare him to his opponents' production. Yet, in those same games our team production is a very solid positive. This is the illusion. It looks like he is doing poorly, but he's the guy who jumps on the grenade so that others may thrive. Beverley would rather have a stat line that read 0 points, 10 rebs, 4 steals, 2 blocks, 0 turnovers than one that reads 20 pts, 6 assists, 3 rebs, 1 steal, 4 turnovers. Guys like him are rare, undervalued, and under-appreciated. No one is arguing that he is some top-flight point guard. He is the epitome of a junk yard dog type--and nobody likes messing with them. Funny enough, they often don't get much love either.

    Ha, who was it....I think Parsons that was asked who would win if the Rockets players had a gladiator-style fight. He picked Beverley to be last man standing.

    This argument always devolves into individual merit with only that scooped together 16-1 team record( over 3 seasons including a 7-0 linsanity) to support it. Surely everyone can see that is not a sustainable pace. That would eclipse Jordan's Bulls team that went 72-10. At that pace Jeremy's team would finish about 78-4 or 77-5. Really? Are we sure that W/L record is indicative of anything resembling a sustainable reality? The reality is we can all recall that outside of Linsanity, that W/L record came against weak competition and is not a strong statistic.

    Patrick Beverley is the right guy. Jeremy Lin is a good player and I am glad we have him--he does a lot for this team. Beverley is the right guy the same way Chalmers is the right guy next to LeBron.

    It's like a meal. Steak and potatoes. Nobody is confused about who the star of the dish is, but it's just not as good without that potato (Beverley). Why would you pair a New York Strip (Lin) with a 24 oz. bone-in ribeye (Harden). You don't. You put a potato, a salad, some broccoli, brussel sprouts, whatever around him....now, if you can go all out and add that lobster tail (Dwight Howard) then you've got yourself a meal :)

  • timetodienow1234567 says 7 months ago I just said using team statistics to evaluate a guards defense is folly. They don't have as much impact on team defense as a center. That's pretty widely known. And he's pretty inefficient. He has a sub .400 shooting percentage. So neither of those points are wrong IMO. And considering he takes almost 10 shots a game... Why is my post ridiculous?

    I admit that bev is a good defender and a great one sometimes, but just because I'm evaluating him objectively, I'm ridiculous. I admit that his defense is key as harden is not consistent on that end and am not advocating Lin starting.
  • Knickabokkaz says 7 months ago

    it's always strange to compare rocket PGs to teams with all star type PGs. like you said, our offensive production comes from other positions on the team.

    i realize the PG and PF positions are trending in the NBA lately, but that isn't the way the rockets are designed.

    JG should I say anything?

    I'll just post a stat when it compares to starting scoring pg's in the league that average more then 11-12 shots per game with a much higher usage rate:

    In all games Lin has 11+ FG attempts:

    46% FG%, 36% from 3, 18ppg, 5 assists.

    Win-Loss record in those games : 16-1

  • feelingsupersonic says 7 months ago

    So we have to look at the entire defense to evaluate bev. I had no idea he was our center and anchored our defense. He is a good defender and a minus on offense often. I think he's a good fit next to harden when his shot is falling when it's not it's ugly to look at. Very very inefficient shooter.



    This is one of the more rediculous posts I have read in this thread.
  • Dayak says 7 months ago He is better defensively than other guards in the team. When his shot isn't falling then we can put Lin in. I'm starting to love how McHale managing the rotation for our backcourt players.

    I don't think Bev will be starting for other teams in NBA but he is a good fit next to Harden in this team.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 7 months ago So we have to look at the entire defense to evaluate bev. I had no idea he was our center and anchored our defense. He is a good defender and a minus on offense often. I think he's a good fit next to harden when his shot is falling when it's not it's ugly to look at. Very very inefficient shooter.
  • redfaithful says 7 months ago

    Westbrook...

  • Dayak says 7 months ago Paul, Parker, Curry, Lillard, Lawson, Dragic, Conley, Holiday, Isiah Thomas. Bev is what we need.
  • feelingsupersonic says 8 months ago

    I agree johnnygold that it is not a big deal. To me it seems obvious if you want some numbers that tell the story of Beverly's impact you would look past the box score and notice the Warriors shot about 40% and scored 89 points through 4 quarters, those are Beverly's numbers. He starts at the point of attack by picking up Curry around half court and disrupting the Warriors from the get go. Curry could have easily been neck and neck with Harden around 40 points were it not for Beverly.

  • miketheodio says 8 months ago

    Everyone knows offense isn't Bev's job so pointing that out isn't a big deal.

    Curry scored 15 of his 25 behind the arc. With him you just have to live with that. He only scored 3 buckets inside the paint--one of which was a pull up just inside the free throw line. He also made 4 free throws. So, from a different perspective I like the effort given. He only got 2 shots at the rim, was only put on the line twice, and was forced to beat us from outside. I can live with that. If you take away a near half-court heave he was 5-7 from three...he won't do that every time.

    Bev is not a box score guy. If the Rockets didn't like him I am pretty sure they could have traded for a replacement. Steve Blake was obviously available as were others.

    Yes, Bev had an off night. So did some other guys whose job descriptions actually focus on scoring--Parsons, Howard, and Lin. Why are we focused on this? Even funnier, why is it Beverley sucks when he has a bad night, but Lin is just being held back by Harden and McHale when he has a lousy night? I swear, cable news channels are less biased than some of the opinions floating around here. :wacko:

    it's always strange to compare rocket PGs to teams with all star type PGs. like you said, our offensive production comes from other positions on the team.

    i realize the PG and PF positions are trending in the NBA lately, but that isn't the way the rockets are designed.

  • thejohnnygold says 8 months ago

    Everyone knows offense isn't Bev's job so pointing that out isn't a big deal.

    Curry scored 15 of his 25 behind the arc. With him you just have to live with that. He only scored 3 buckets inside the paint--one of which was a pull up just inside the free throw line. He also made 4 free throws. So, from a different perspective I like the effort given. He only got 2 shots at the rim, was only put on the line twice, and was forced to beat us from outside. I can live with that. If you take away a near half-court heave he was 5-7 from three...he won't do that every time.

    Bev is not a box score guy. If the Rockets didn't like him I am pretty sure they could have traded for a replacement. Steve Blake was obviously available as were others.

    Yes, Bev had an off night. So did some other guys whose job descriptions actually focus on scoring--Parsons, Howard, and Lin. Why are we focused on this? Even funnier, why is it Beverley sucks when he has a bad night, but Lin is just being held back by Harden and McHale when he has a lousy night? I swear, cable news channels are less biased than some of the opinions floating around here. :wacko:

  • dbd says 8 months ago

    I hate to say any negative about anybody but some of you have way overrated Bev. His flashy plays and contract was part of the thinking I believe.

    Bev had 2pt (1-6 shooting), 5 boards, 3 asst, and fouled out of the game. Curry got 25 pt (8-15 shooting) and 6 ast.

    Yes I saw the entire game. Bev defensive plays was good and he was best Rockets perimeter for the season.

    But, his offensive numbers 2 pt and 3 ast was plain bad. You are delusional if you think that is good.

    His defense, 5 boards and fouled out of the game and opposite PG scored 25 points. Yes, Bev wasn't on Curry all the time and unfortunately this is the way we always measured a player. (i.e. we compared PG to PG, SG to SG, etc.) You are not that good if you are not available by fouling out of the game. Period.

    Yes. although Bev got only 5 boards, his two offense rebounds were critical play. Again, he was the best Rockets perimeter defensive player of the game. What I am trying to say was, people got carried away and overrated it. I hope we can judge all our players with fair and right. Overvaluing a player was as bad as demeaning it.

  • Steven says 8 months ago I do remember him leading the JailBlazers to the Conference Finals, tho.
  • feelingsupersonic says 8 months ago

    Scottie Pippen.



    I never liked him as a player and the whole scenario just never seemed right to me though he is definitely candidate hit biggest letdown especially for guys who came up watching NBA in the 90's. I consider Pippen overrated for the obvious reasons to this day.
  • Steven says 8 months ago

    I have no problem with being wrong about Asik, who cares about being right or wrong? Have I been frustrated with Asik, sure I have. I have been a Rockets fan for almost 30 years and I can't think of a player who was a bigger let down than Asik. I hope I have been wrong about him, I'm just a fan so I don't really know what's going on.

    Scottie Pippen.
  • feelingsupersonic says 8 months ago I have no problem with being wrong about Asik, who cares about being right or wrong? Have I been frustrated with Asik, sure I have. I have been a Rockets fan for almost 30 years and I can't think of a player who was a bigger let down than Asik. I hope I have been wrong about him, I'm just a fan so I don't really know what's going on.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 8 months ago I defended Asik a ton. But people who have preconceived notions with no basis in facts about Asiks situation won't have their minds changed.

    Their argument will be that Asik is trying to maximize his trade value in the offseason.
  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Just want to point out a positive and the value of having Asik on the floor. The guy is a stud. You all saw the intensity and passion he showed when he was on the floor running down the lane setting rock hard picks. People who questioned his profesionalism should have their minds changed after tonight.

    Totally agree thenit. You and I were basically the only ones fiercely supporting him here and the future will prove us right.

  • miketheodio says 8 months ago Who else was supposed to create? Lin was getting neutralized in the half court. Beverley had no luck. Parsons was trying and had a couple plays. The only one who was producing was harden at the end.
  • QNoir says 8 months ago

    1. I disagree with you guys about the heroball. Yes, James was the only player who was doing anything worth a damn, but that doesn't mean just clear out 1-4 for him every trip down. I have no problem with him taking all of the shots, but atleast put him in better positions to score. But whatever, I've already lost my breath talking about this topic.

    2. The main point I had on last night's game was the power forward play. You all know how much I love D-Mo and Terrence Jones and had kept screaming for them to get playing time all year, but, almost paradoxically, continued to say I didn't trust them if I felt this team wanted to compete. While I'm thrilled the two will get all the time they can handle now, we saw last night that they just aren't ready to help this team against the good Western teams. Jones in particular was getting completely mauled by David Lee and had nothing on the other end: this was the first team I saw actually guard him intelligently, inviting him to shoot from the outside. Ultimately, Houston's best option was to just play Harden at power forward.

    I agree with 1. The worst possessions came when Harden was the only Rocket to touch the ball. Whether it was an early 3 or attempted drive, they mostly led to transition points for Golden State, and it was frustrating to watch.

  • thenit says 8 months ago

    Just want to point out a positive and the value of having Asik on the floor. The guy is a stud. You all saw the intensity and passion he showed when he was on the floor running down the lane setting rock hard picks. People who questioned his profesionalism should have their minds changed after tonight.

  • SDrake says 8 months ago

    I thought the Rockets, despite their comeback to tie the game and take a few brief leads in the 4th quarter, lost the game on poor shot selection. There were too many instances late in that 4th quarter where they just threw up quick 3 pointers without moving the ball and running an offense. Parsons, Casspi and Harden were guilty here, although a few of Harden's did fall... still bad shot selection. It seems like Casspi with his limited minutes will just shoot the ball any time he touches it.

    The Rocket still don't seem to have any final possession play except give the ball to Harden for an ISO and hope for the best.

    Too often in sports, decisions are judged as good or bad based on the outcome of the decision. But, bad decisions can sometimes lead to a successful outcome and good decisions can sometimes lead to a bad outcome. Bad decisions rely on luck for a good outcome. Good decisions rely on skill and execution for a good outcome.

    Harden's ISO to give Houston a 2 point lead with 7 seconds was one massively bad decision that had a good outcome. Think about it. Tie game andneeding a final shot towin. What do you draw up if you're the coach? Do you decide your best option is for Harden to ISO and take a 2-point shot a foot in front of the 3-point line? No. That is an amazingly low percentage shot. It went in due more to luck of making a low percentage shot than from the skill of executing a final shot offense. Unfortunately the Rockets tried to repeat that poor offensive strategy with 3 seconds left in regulation and near the end of OT. Why is the only option for the Rockets to give the ball to Harden? The other teams know that's coming and can defend it.

    This loss is on McHale. Poor end-of-game strategy. A waste of a dominant game by Harden (where he did play some defense).

  • rocketrick says 8 months ago

    1. I disagree with you guys about the heroball. Yes, James was the only player who was doing anything worth a damn, but that doesn't mean just clear out 1-4 for him every trip down. I have no problem with him taking all of the shots, but atleast put him in better positions to score. But whatever, I've already lost my breath talking about this topic.


    If Harden doesn't torch the Warriors with 30 points in the second half and some quality defensive plays, the Rockets lose this game by 10 in regulation.

    BTW, after Harden's injury early in overtime, the Rockets had no choice but to go completely away from Harden iso's. The result was pretty inefficient offense. I just hope Harden's injury doesn't linger.
  • miketheodio says 8 months ago

    also, if parsons takes his ball handling/play making abilities up another level, the rockets win that game and become really dangerous in late game situations.

  • miketheodio says 8 months ago

    The shot clock violations probably bugged me the most.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago Only thing I'm sick of with Lin is that he doesn't wanna ever just take control when things ain't working. F all of you! Gimme the damn ball, everyone in this forum knows he much more efficient when he's aggressive and just does his thing. The HELL with being a good teammate. He has to know there ain't nobody on this team that's trying to get him the ball unless he takes it himself.
  • feelingsupersonic says 8 months ago All in all I agree with Walker's post game wrap up, it's a good loss. The big picture looks good right now here are the Western Conference performances of late from NBA Guru retweeted by Morey:

    @NBAGuru: West Standings since Jan 1
    1 Hou 16-5
    2 Mem 17-6
    3 Okc 18-7
    4 Lac 15-7
    5 San 15-8
    6 Gsw 13-9
    7 Phx 13-10
    8 Dal 13-10
    9 Den 11-11
    9 Por 11-11


    Things are looking pretty good.


    Also, Rahat is right that last night the young power forwards no showed and that's a going to happen in the playoffs and down the stretch when it's time to grind out games, hopefully they learn from it. Hopefully the bench can gain some consistancy now that they are together, for the most part. (by the way does anyone else find that fullsquad crap from the Warriors a joke?)
  • QNoir says 8 months ago

    Is it just me, or did Lin's defense look phenomenal last night (except getting bullied on the switch to David Lee)? It has been that way pretty steadily lately.

  • Michael Cham says 8 months ago

    Another thought. What did you all think of Asik? Still getting into the mix but oddly I can see him getting better. I think the other guys in the second unit are getting used to him as well.

  • Michael Cham says 8 months ago

    This loss to Golden St. was Houston's 'welcome to the playoffs' moment. This is how playoff basketball will be played. Patrick Beverley cannot handle the big time guards that the Rockets will face in the playoffs. His defense is overrated. He overplays, gambles and fouls because of his lack of size. He cannot go at the other team's guards on the offensive end. Jeremy Lin is a better player on both ends of the floor. Yes, I said it. I meant defensively as well as offensively. Defensively, Lin has had several solid performances against scoring PGs and has frankly outplayed Beverley on head to head match up comparisons with opposing guards from Parker to Conley to Wall to Thomas and Curry. Lin is bigger than most PGs in the league and has speed. He can guard 1s and 2s. It also helps that he can light it up on the offensive end and make the opposing PG work. In other words, he presents a big matchup problem for opposing teams. What Houston ought to be doing is using the remainder of the regular season to groom Lin to be that second playmaker, because Houston doesn't have one after Harden. Not Howard, not Parsons, not Jones and not Beverley. Lin should be shooting more than 10 times a game and should be encouraged to make plays. He needs to play with the starting unit more to have the impact that Houston will need in the playoffs.

    Welcome to the playoffs. I agree! Your take on Pat Bev. Wrong. I agree that Lin has more length than Bev and in that way, he has an advantage over Bev, but that is only one factor. Overall, Bev is a better defender. I'm a LOF and I am happy he gets to finish games. Yesterday, Lin had plenty of opportunities to take more than 10 shots. And can I point out that offense is more than shots. It is the opportunity to make plays. Lin actually had a bad game against the Lakers too. I'm hopeful, not confident, that he will get going again. Go Rockets.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago You obviously did not watch the game considering Beverley was the reason Curry was non-existent for most of the game.
  • rm90025 says 8 months ago

    This loss to Golden St. was Houston's 'welcome to the playoffs' moment. This is how playoff basketball will be played. Patrick Beverley cannot handle the big time guards that the Rockets will face in the playoffs. His defense is overrated. He overplays, gambles and fouls because of his lack of size. He cannot go at the other team's guards on the offensive end. Jeremy Lin is a better player on both ends of the floor. Yes, I said it. I meant defensively as well as offensively. Defensively, Lin has had several solid performances against scoring PGs and has frankly outplayed Beverley on head to head match up comparisons with opposing guards from Parker to Conley to Wall to Thomas and Curry. Lin is bigger than most PGs in the league and has speed. He can guard 1s and 2s. It also helps that he can light it up on the offensive end and make the opposing PG work. In other words, he presents a big matchup problem for opposing teams. What Houston ought to be doing is using the remainder of the regular season to groom Lin to be that second playmaker, because Houston doesn't have one after Harden. Not Howard, not Parsons, not Jones and not Beverley. Lin should be shooting more than 10 times a game and should be encouraged to make plays. He needs to play with the starting unit more to have the impact that Houston will need in the playoffs.

  • Michael Cham says 8 months ago

    Really frustrated after yesterday's game. I remind myself that the team just came off a good run. They are at GS. There was probably an emotional let down after all the trade deadline and Laker drama. There is a lot of bball to go and this is a good learning experience for the team.

    I was most frustrated with Lin, since I'm a LOF. It is a small but important thing that annoys me. Here is how I read the situation.

    Harden tries to ISO. That is fine.

    If it isn't there, he kicks to Lin. That is what I want.

    Lin tries to drive to the hoop. Great!

    If Lin is stopped, he picks up his handle. NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I hope the coaches are telling Lin to keep his dribble and figure out what to do. Stopping the play right there is a disaster for the offense. The drive was a good idea but just because they stop it doesn't mean he should pick up the ball.

    If Lin wants to be the second option after an ISO that didn't work, I would prefer to see him attack attack and attack. Maybe develop a step back off the drive instead of the spin, gather and shoot. I was impressed with Parson's aggressiveness, even if it doesn't work out. I can live with the block by J O'Neal. I mostly get frustrated if Rockets aren't aggressive. Even if it is hero ball time, players need to find a way to become locked in mentally and be ready.

    (I'm going to take a deep breath.)

    Other thoughts:

    What do you guys think about the Pick and Roll at the end of the game. I don't think it is as effective since Howard is much less of a threat at the end of the game.

    Inbounding the ball seems to be a problem. I think it stems from not having a post presence that can potentially be a threat inside. Part of this is not wanting to pass to Howard at the end of games. Part of this is the line up that the Rockets employ to finish games. Harden, Bev, Lin, Parsons and Howard. Take D12 out of consideration and there are no back to the bucket post players. I think this is something that McHale can coach around. Harden, Parsons and Lin can all slash their way to the bucket. There has got to be a way to ultilize that.

  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago

    1. I disagree with you guys about the heroball. Yes, James was the only player who was doing anything worth a damn, but that doesn't mean just clear out 1-4 for him every trip down. I have no problem with him taking all of the shots, but atleast put him in better positions to score. But whatever, I've already lost my breath talking about this topic.


    Well THAT is the PROBLEM. And who is the root of THAT problem, WHY did they just run 1-4 clear outs almost every possession like you just said? Who's the one calling that play? McHale? Harden? Obviously SOMEONE kept running that play over and over again. I can say there's not anyone else running THAT play that was on the court. EVERYTIME, you go to this corner you go to that corner you stay here you stay there.. Harden didn't do anything to have OPTIONS and put his teammates in a POSITION TO HELP HIM. He's the one putting HIMSELF in that situation.

    Notice the ONLY 2 Fgs scored in overtime were passes 2 passes into Dwight ... Besides Hardens 2 ft's ? Parsons got blocked but it was a good play at least. Those plays didn't INVOLVE a 1-4 clear out. That's why you get the "hero ball" comments because you just said yourself
  • Buckko says 8 months ago Harden is a great post defender, it's his off ball guarding that causes the YouTube videos.
  • Rahat Huq says 8 months ago

    1. I disagree with you guys about the heroball. Yes, James was the only player who was doing anything worth a damn, but that doesn't mean just clear out 1-4 for him every trip down. I have no problem with him taking all of the shots, but atleast put him in better positions to score. But whatever, I've already lost my breath talking about this topic.

    2. The main point I had on last night's game was the power forward play. You all know how much I love D-Mo and Terrence Jones and had kept screaming for them to get playing time all year, but, almost paradoxically, continued to say I didn't trust them if I felt this team wanted to compete. While I'm thrilled the two will get all the time they can handle now, we saw last night that they just aren't ready to help this team against the good Western teams. Jones in particular was getting completely mauled by David Lee and had nothing on the other end: this was the first team I saw actually guard him intelligently, inviting him to shoot from the outside. Ultimately, Houston's best option was to just play Harden at power forward.

  • bladad says 8 months ago

    One last point on Beverley. They guy is a stud.

    Agreed.

    It's kind of unfair that someone can do something right for 45 minutes, but if they mess up in the last 3 minutes that's what people focus on. Oh well, that's what I'm going to do, too.

    Hero ball is not the way to go, EVER. Every analytic shows that isolation is the least efficient play for pretty much every team that does not have Kevin Durant on it. And I don't have to tell you how much less efficient it becomes when the other team actually knows you're going to run it and can prepare for it. Even the announcer (who weirdly kept saying Parson Chandlers) pointed it out a few times. He said that the Rockets are comfortable isolating Harden in key moments, and that once he gets the ball you know what's going to happen. In overtime he even said that the lack of ball movement was hurting the Rockets.

    I just don't get why the Rockets are the most analytically focused team for 45 minutes and then turn into cavemen for the last 3. I've said it before, but if Harden actually makes a shot in those situations, it's the exception, not the rule. I hate to say it but a very small part of me kind of wants him to miss just so the Rockets will kick that habit before the playoffs begin.

    He had the hot hand when no one else on the team seemed to be able to buy a bucket. It's not hero ball when you're being efficient and everybody else is playing poorly. Is ball movement still a problem down the clutch? Yes, but when you look at the game as a whole instead of the last three minutes, you can understand the iso harden ball. If Dwight, Jeremy, or Chandler were playing well, the conversation would be much different.

    Inefficient offense is not going to be the reason why the Rockets won't have a chance to win it all. Repeated lapses in (team) defense will.

  • John P says 8 months ago

    Agreed that this is a loss we can live with. The team D was good...strong even, but our offense just sucked outside of Harden. This is what I am worried about most.

    Parsons and Howard are fairly dependable. The fact that they were off tonight we can live with.

    But besides those 3 I am worried about consistency with the rest of the team. As mentioned below, where is Jones? Dmo was more impactful last night than Jones. Casspi? Did Cisco even hit the floor? Maybe Hamilton can help but Brooks' O was needed tonight when others were off.

    We have great players in Harden, Howard, Parsons, but the next tier of players is inconsistent at best. Maybe this is true for most teams but if Lin, Casspi, Jones, etc... check out in the playoffs for more than a game or so we are toast.

    One last point on Beverley. They guy is a stud. His box score may not say it, but his D was one of the big reasons that Curry was somewhat contained for large parts of the game. He got great fouls. Fouls for hounding the hell out of Curry. I don't have the quantitative data to back it up but it looks like he was playing great D all night long...till he fouled out in OT.

    Also, Harden was invested in D last night too. Great to see and a huge key to playoff success.

  • Steven says 8 months ago

    So who to blame? I blame Lin, I blame him for not taking the ball and actually running an offense and running ISO-Harden, Hero Ball. I blame Lin for not having supersonic speed to get open when Hardens killing the clock and he passes it to Lin in the corner with 2 seconds left while covered and he has to run around 2 guys just to get an open look, and yes I blame him for slipping. I blame Lin for hesitating to take shots because he's supposedly not suppose to, the "superstar" is suppose to. I blame Lin for Parsons shooting 8/24 an D12 going 4/13. And yes I definitely blame Lin for Parsons getting stuffed on a dunk, he should have held the 40 yr old down from blocking Parsons.

    Sorry Rahat we didn't see the 1-2 PnR which would have been the ideal play when you called it, but the dumb coach and a huge ego prevented all of that.

    Btw incase we haven't figured it out yet... Hero ball = FAIL. And I blame Lin for that too

    So hero ball failed when Harden made an Iso jumper all in Klay Thompson's grill with 7 seconds to go. No. What failed was the Rockets defense on the next play. They had a foul to give and Parsons should have used it the second Curry caught the pass. Curry then made a nice layup over Howard. And Lin did get the ball only to leave his jumper 10 feet short of the rim as the buzzer rang. When the Rockets were as atrocious offensively as they were last night, besides Harden, I don't expect them to beat a playoff caliber team.
  • Cooper says 8 months ago There were several points were the rockets could have sealed the win and only one was a missed ISO play by harden. Plus he backpacked the team the entire second half, when it seemed Parsons and Howard couldn't buy a bucket. Not taking the first look he had off the set of screens to end the game might have been his biggest mistake and he still got a good look it just didn't go down. And he found parsons on a great back cut it just so happend the corpse of jermaine oneal had a little lift left in him. How many times out of ten is he able to make that play? 2-3 maybe. A OT road loss to a playoff team isn't a big deal.
  • feelingsupersonic says 8 months ago I agree Bigtkirk. And the Rockets still have a losing streak coming and hopefully it's not more than a handful of games and that they all learn lessons from.
  • Bigtkirk says 8 months ago

    Given how little the Rockets got out of the PG position in this game, it's remarkable that it was as close as it was.

    I sure hope T. Jones hasn't hit a wall. He has been struggling lately.

  • rocketrick says 8 months ago

    It's kind of unfair that someone can do something right for 45 minutes, but if they mess up in the last 3 minutes that's what people focus on. Oh well, that's what I'm going to do, too.

    Hero ball is not the way to go, EVER. Every analytic shows that isolation is the least efficient play for pretty much every team that does not have Kevin Durant on it.


    James Harden was the one and only reason the Rockets even had any chance of pulling out a win against Golden State earlier last evening.

    BTW, Harden played the entire second half and overtime period. And seems that he suffered a tough injury early in OT.

    And the Harden ISO haters come out like droves, simply blaming Harden for losing this quite winnable game.

    Whatever.

    Eventually, most Rockets fans will be in the majority looking forward to those last moments in tight games in tough playoff games that James Harden is on our team determined to win the game.
  • Willk says 8 months ago

    The silver lining is that the Rockets grinded this game out and made it competitive on the Warriors home court. Considering how off Dwight and Parsons were I consider the Warriors lucky to get the win. How about Harden with the steal on Lee, the shot to take the lead and then the dish Parsons couldn't capitalize on? Pretty impressive crunch time play.

    You knew the streak was going to come an end at some point. The Rox did a good job battling on a night when they did not have it.

    So who to blame? I blame Lin, I blame him for not taking the ball and actually running an offense and running ISO-Harden, Hero Ball. I blame Lin for not having supersonic speed to get open when Hardens killing the clock and he passes it to Lin in the corner with 2 seconds left while covered and he has to run around 2 guys just to get an open look, and yes I blame him for slipping. I blame Lin for hesitating to take shots because he's supposedly not suppose to, the "superstar" is suppose to. I blame Lin for Parsons shooting 8/24 an D12 going 4/13. And yes I definitely blame Lin for Parsons getting stuffed on a dunk, he should have held the 40 yr old down from blocking Parsons.

    Sorry Rahat we didn't see the 1-2 PnR which would have been the ideal play when you called it, but the dumb coach and a huge ego prevented all of that.

    Btw incase we haven't figured it out yet... Hero ball = FAIL. And I blame Lin for that too

    Knickabokkaz or Yo B or whatever name you are using now,I thought you promised you were not going to post. Can you keep a promise?

  • linonlyfan says 8 months ago

    Its kinda strange, one of the most effective plays i think i seen the Rockets do, is what Lin calls the back side screen and roll. Usually Lin starts with the ball and goes into a pnr, but its actually a decoy with Harden setting up on the other wing to get the ball and immediately go into another screen and roll. As much as Harden can seriously create some ooh ah isolation offense, he seems much better attacking a trailing closeout. I think the Rockets are lacking the patience and experience to get into quality offensive sets sometimes and sorting this out would prevent end game situations that we see today. I really dislike it when the game becomes zip ball around perimeter and whoever has it tries to take his man, it looks far too much like the pickup games i play at the neighbourhood court.

    At end of day, what is great to see is that the team is starting to sort of get the defensive side a bit better. That was the biggest gap and its closing somewhat. I hope the tough run of games we have will get us into a lets now improve how we play offense mindset. The best part is this season is showing us there are no real talent gaps, and however much Hardens ability spoils the team into isoball sometimes, thats the sort of ability you need to get to top 2 in the league. Just need to learn how to apply it best.

    Pat Beverley shot up the power rankings for me today. He really brings a battlers mindset that the team needs so bad.

  • SadLakerFan says 8 months ago That was a very enjoyable game. If the team learns to hit free throws even when they are dead tired the Rox win this game.
  • shirtless says 8 months ago

    It's kind of unfair that someone can do something right for 45 minutes, but if they mess up in the last 3 minutes that's what people focus on. Oh well, that's what I'm going to do, too.

    Hero ball is not the way to go, EVER. Every analytic shows that isolation is the least efficient play for pretty much every team that does not have Kevin Durant on it. And I don't have to tell you how much less efficient it becomes when the other team actually knows you're going to run it and can prepare for it. Even the announcer (who weirdly kept saying Parson Chandlers) pointed it out a few times. He said that the Rockets are comfortable isolating Harden in key moments, and that once he gets the ball you know what's going to happen. In overtime he even said that the lack of ball movement was hurting the Rockets.

    I just don't get why the Rockets are the most analytically focused team for 45 minutes and then turn into cavemen for the last 3. I've said it before, but if Harden actually makes a shot in those situations, it's the exception, not the rule. I hate to say it but a very small part of me kind of wants him to miss just so the Rockets will kick that habit before the playoffs begin.

  • feelingsupersonic says 8 months ago The silver lining is that the Rockets grinded this game out and made it competitive on the Warriors home court. Considering how off Dwight and Parsons were I consider the Warriors lucky to get the win. How about Harden with the steal on Lee, the shot to take the lead and then the dish Parsons couldn't capitalize on? Pretty impressive crunch time play.
  • Knickabokkaz says 8 months ago So who to blame? I blame Lin, I blame him for not taking the ball and actually running an offense and running ISO-Harden, Hero Ball. I blame Lin for not having supersonic speed to get open when Hardens killing the clock and he passes it to Lin in the corner with 2 seconds left while covered and he has to run around 2 guys just to get an open look, and yes I blame him for slipping. I blame Lin for hesitating to take shots because he's supposedly not suppose to, the "superstar" is suppose to. I blame Lin for Parsons shooting 8/24 an D12 going 4/13. And yes I definitely blame Lin for Parsons getting stuffed on a dunk, he should have held the 40 yr old down from blocking Parsons.

    Sorry Rahat we didn't see the 1-2 PnR which would have been the ideal play when you called it, but the dumb coach and a huge ego prevented all of that.

    Btw incase we haven't figured it out yet... Hero ball = FAIL. And I blame Lin for that too
  • Red94 says 8 months ago New post: Golden State Warriors 102, Houston Rockets 99 - Down but not out
    By: Forrest Walker

    There are bad losses, Bad losses and BAD losses in the NBA. Losing to the Los Angeles Clippers by something like a thousand points was Bad. Losing to the Thunder and setting an NBA record for offensive dysfunction was BAD. Losing to the Warriors on their home turf in overtime? Every loss is bad, but this one was survivable. This was the first game after a strangely tepid trade deadline, and the Rockets nearly came from behind for the win. There are still issues to work out and defense to work on, but they're the same issues and problems the team had yesterday. Losing stings, but this is pain you can live with.

    As for the Golden State Warriors, they looked like the competitor everyone expected in the summer. Their offense was desultory, but so was Houston's. Both teams were on the second night of a back to back, which tends to cause shooting to suffer and defense to become more important. The Warriors are the more steadfast defensive team, and at times it looked like Houston couldn't get anything they wanted. When any Houston players found themselves open, they clanked the shot more often than not. Even at the free throw line, the poor shooting persisted.

    If this sounds like time to panic, it's not. James Harden had a monster 39 points on 14-27 shooting along with 4 rebounds and 5 assists. Harden took over the game late and looked like a star. He even defended David Lee quite capably on multiple occasions. If your Rockets Game Bingo has "good post defense from Harden" on it, you may have just won big. If, like the rest of us, it says "good post play from Dwight Howard" on your sheet, you're out of luck. Dwight's 24 rebounds and 4 blocks may have been huge for the team, but his 4-13 shooting and 3-8 free throws were cause for dismay. Jermaine O'Neal brought it to Dwight on both ends of the floor and enjoyed an amazing game, including a crucial block in overtime that prevented Parsons from taking the lead.

    The biggest reason for concern for Houston was free throw shooting. At 16-25, any of those misses would have helped avoid overtime in the first place. The Rockets, while sporting dreadful numbers from the stripe to begin with, 64% as a team is a recipe for disaster. The downside is that there's little to be done about it, but the upside is that this will largely correct itself with time and rest. It stings to know that those missed shots could have saved the game, but says little about Houston's prospects.

    There's not much to be learned from a game where all but two players on the team shot less than 50%. There's little takeaway from the end of the game except that James Harden and Steph Curry are both amazing. There's no good reason to be afraid of Jermaine O'Neal any more than the day before. Ugly losses hurt, and seeing that win streak fall apart hurts even more. That's all true, but in a mid-February regular season game, none of them are impossible to survive.

  • Buckko says 8 months ago

    Refs.

  • Losthief says 8 months ago

    games on tnt not espn tonight fyi.

  • Sir Thursday says 8 months ago

    IMO the major difference between the Warriors this year and last year is that they are no longer solid when Stephen Curry sits. Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry provided an awesome bench unit that kept the points flowing, so they kept up their intensity for the full 48 minutes. This year though, the Warriors' numbers plummet with Curry is off the floor (he and Andre Iguodala currently lead the league in per game +/-) and that has been their downfall. With his injury history you can't bite the bullet and put him out there for the full game, but if they don't then the team loses.

    That's why I think the addition of Steve Blake may make a difference for the Warriors. He's not an amazing player, but he's definitely an upgrade at backup PG and should help facilitate for the bench unit much better than the previous incumbents. IMO backup PG is one of the most underrratedly important positions in the league. As Rockets fans we've been spoiled in recent years with the glut of talent the team has had at the position. But remember the agony of early last year when watching Toney Douglas trying to play the point was an exercise in eye-ball clawing? That's not something a championship contender can afford to have.

    I'm not going to be able to watch this game, unfortunately, but I'll be interested to see whether or not the Rockets can bait Mark Jackson into calling unwise iso matchups like he has done in previous games. Harrison Barnes or David Lee posting up is a much better outcome for the Rockets than Curry in the P&R or Thompson spotting up.

    Also on defence the Rockets should be blitzing the P&R if Curry gets a screen from anyone other than David Lee. Lee has the passing skills to convert the ensuing 4-on-3 opportunities when Curry passes out of the trap, but none of GS's other bigs have the wherewithal to deal with it properly. It worked very nicely last time we played them and forces the ball out of Curry's hands.

    ST

Leave a Comment