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Royce White interview with Slate.com

Houston Rockets forward Royce White was a guest on Slate’s Hang up and Listen podcast.  The full transcript of that interview can be found here, at the bottom of the page.

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  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Well, today is the day Royce is supposed to show up at RGV. Found a little highlight video from summer league hoping to get me excited about him.....it worked. It's like watching Charles Barkley and Magic Johnson's love child (don't let the imagery ruin the comparison)....He still needs to learn to shoot....Jason Kidd couldn't shoot either...

    HERE IS THE LINK
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    thejohnnygold, on 30 January 2013 - 17:17 PM said:


    Read it. Here is an interesting blurb from Morey in the sidenotes:

    "the true risk of selecting White was not as severe as many people think, since only about 20 percent of players drafted 16th overall end up having major NBA careers anyway."

    Nice to hear more of his perspective on the selection of White.

    White makes some decent points and his perspective is interesting in a lot of ways. He lost me when he dismissed the notion that stress is a part of life. I cannot fathom a life, or lifestyle, without stress unless you, yourself, develop the necessary skills to dismantle and dissipate it. Even hunter gatherers had stress.... Royce, I am sorry to say stress is a part of life. I do agree that it is a silent killer and on a pandemic level, but the onus is on you to deal with it. I almost feel his issues are of a more spiritual nature than psychological. He is afraid of dying. It's existential not psychological IMO.

    Kade, on 01 February 2013 - 17:02 PM said:


    read the piece on him on grantland and you'll come away convinced he will never change and this will be an ongoing nightmare


    I did, above is my initial comment on that.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    thejohnnygold, on 31 January 2013 - 21:13 PM said:


    I'll say this much on White's behalf.....if I were to have my future judged by what I said and did when I was his age.....well.....that would be way off and very unfair. Who knows what will give him a wake up call, if anything, but let's remember this: most of us were complete idiots once too. All it takes is one person to earn his respect and set him straight.


    read the piece on him on grantland and you'll come away convinced he will never change and this will be an ongoing nightmare
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago That's what is so tricky about this. The dude clearly has a lot of knowledge (a lot of which sounds like he is just "parroting" what someone else told him) and I think he isn't wrong in a lot of what he says. The problem, I think, is how he is applying the knowledge and awareness he has--both to himself and to the world.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    thejohnnygold, on 31 January 2013 - 21:13 PM said:


    I'll say this much on White's behalf.....if I were to have my future judged by what I said and did when I was his age.....well.....that would be way off and very unfair. Who knows what will give him a wake up call, if anything, but let's remember this: most of us were complete idiots once too. All it takes is one person to earn his respect and set him straight.
    I wish I could say this was true in white's case, but it's not. sure I did stupid things when I was young, but I was NEVER hanging over the edge of the cliff like white is. white lives in a fantasy world where everyone get cookies and ice cream, and whats even worse is the people around him are enabling him to remain there. he may indeed report to rvp, but I just don't see a good outcome for his basketball career. best he can do at this point is try to sell some of those windmill fantasies of his.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago I'll say this much on White's behalf.....if I were to have my future judged by what I said and did when I was his age.....well.....that would be way off and very unfair. Who knows what will give him a wake up call, if anything, but let's remember this: most of us were complete idiots once too. All it takes is one person to earn his respect and set him straight.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago I...have to agree a bit more after reading that article. White's thinking is a mixture of naive idealism and immaturity. Some people who have such thoughts/delusions are at least able to hone it well -- deliver their message in a practical way that others can accept. This whole debacle with White and RGV and playing time and 'protocol' makes me feel like he's probably not one of those people who can really get a good grasp on the odd situations he creates.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago He really has alot of growing up to do. But im pretty sure this episode as well as the rolling over of everyone up to this point in his life is going to hinder his thought process for the rest of his life.

    Finally... an answer to my first post on this thread.

    Royce is putting down the cheetos... and his heading to Rio... Grande... Viperville.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago

    Sir Thursday, on 30 January 2013 - 15:13 PM said:


    Chuck Klosterman just put up a really interesting article about Royce on Grantland, FYI: http://www.grantland...man-royce-white

    ST


    What an arrogant ass - he will never make it in the NBA.

    And has anyone else noticed he never takes responsibility for anything? Had to transfer because the cops were accusing him of a crime he did not commit which was causing him stress....

    PLEASE !!!!
  • Chichos says 1 YEAR ago

    Sir Thursday, on 30 January 2013 - 15:13 PM said:


    Chuck Klosterman just put up a really interesting article about Royce on Grantland, FYI: http://www.grantland...man-royce-white

    ST


    After reading this I really do believe the Rockets need to release White. If he sees himself in the same mold as a Ghandi then he sees the Rockets as a platform to preach. He is not ready to be a team mate or a leader a locker room needs. He sounds like a whole lot of college kids right before they have to go out in the world and support themselves. Only he is guaranteed 3.5 million over two years.

    Royce its been weird, I hope you get that screen play about windmills sold before they make the Quijote movie.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    Sir Thursday, on 30 January 2013 - 15:13 PM said:


    Chuck Klosterman just put up a really interesting article about Royce on Grantland, FYI: http://www.grantland...man-royce-white

    ST
    kudos Sir Thursday. this is an excellent read. it gives a small view into white's line of thinking. after listening to his rubbish I am even more convinced the rockets should cut ties with this fruit cake. he seems to have an arrogance of entitlement. he believes the world should conform to him. after reading this I am sure about one thing..............he is mentally unstable. the light's on but nobody home. he may be educated, but he lacks common sense.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Read it. Here is an interesting blurb from Morey in the sidenotes:

    "the true risk of selecting White was not as severe as many people think, since only about 20 percent of players drafted 16th overall end up having major NBA careers anyway."

    Nice to hear more of his perspective on the selection of White.

    White makes some decent points and his perspective is interesting in a lot of ways. He lost me when he dismissed the notion that stress is a part of life. I cannot fathom a life, or lifestyle, without stress unless you, yourself, develop the necessary skills to dismantle and dissipate it. Even hunter gatherers had stress.... Royce, I am sorry to say stress is a part of life. I do agree that it is a silent killer and on a pandemic level, but the onus is on you to deal with it. I almost feel his issues are of a more spiritual nature than psychological. He is afraid of dying. It's existential not psychological IMO.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago Chuck Klosterman just put up a really interesting article about Royce on Grantland, FYI: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8890734/chuck-klosterman-royce-white

    ST
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago

    Chichos, on 29 January 2013 - 19:30 PM said:


    Rocye is too slow to be a wing or a "three." And from what I read on scouting reports he might be more like 6'7" then 6'9", which makes him undersized at the 4 on some nights. I think his best asset to start would be defensive rebounding since he has the strength our other forwards do not posses. If he can end the defensive possession with a rebound and outlet to the correct guy consistently our fast break gets better. Unfortunately he can't shoot outside of 5 feet so hopefully he has a few post moves or our spacing will be terrible with him on the court.


    This was something he looked to be focussing on quite strongly when he took to the court in Summer League. He really wanted to rebound the ball because he likes to run the break himself, and when he was able to pull it off it could occasionally look devasting - he's not a guy you feel safe standing in front of if he's barrelling towards you at full speed with the ball. But at times he hunger for the rebound meant that he left his man wide open in order to get in rebounding position early - this is a particular problem if he's matched up with a stretch 4 because it means he's lazy closing out on the shooter. Jae Crowder burned him particularly hard with that.

    We'll see if he's able to correct his bad habits once he gets a bit more coaching. But if he wants to survive in the NBA, he'll need to expand his repertoire beyond the coast-to-coast on the rebound, because teams aren't going to let him get away with that all that often at the top level.

    ST
  • Chichos says 1 YEAR ago Rocye is too slow to be a wing or a "three." And from what I read on scouting reports he might be more like 6'7" then 6'9", which makes him undersized at the 4 on some nights. I think his best asset to start would be defensive rebounding since he has the strength our other forwards do not posses. If he can end the defensive possession with a rebound and outlet to the correct guy consistently our fast break gets better. Unfortunately he can't shoot outside of 5 feet so hopefully he has a few post moves or our spacing will be terrible with him on the court.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago All pretty fair assessments....In my head, those numbers posted were intended as averages once he has settled in...not necessarily straight out of the gate. Also agree that this won't happen, nor should it, before next season. I think Royce has a long ways to go to restore his reputation, but it is possible and he should be allowed that opportunity.

    If he is the kind of player he is purported to be then I think he can elevate this team beyond just "getting his numbers"....I think he can make everyone's job easier and, subsequently, more efficient and more effective. Optimism.....
  • Ostrow says 1 YEAR ago Best case scenario, I don't believe for a second that White puts those numbers up right now. If he put those kind of numbers up he's a first team all rookie player and maybe rookie of the year. There is exactly one forward, small or power, who is averaging more than 5 assists a game. In fact, only LeBron, Harden, and Kobe average more than 5 assists and don't play PG.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago I don't trust him. at this point it's still unclear he will become anything but a loud mouth tweeter tattle tail. I am through with holding out hope royce will produce. he's told us he was going to report b4 and backed out. lets see if he really does report b4 we start plugging him into the lineup. royce won't play this year if at all. best case (IMO) he redeems himself and becomes reasonable trade bait.
  • Heredia says 1 YEAR ago I honestly think he's going to turn out good if he gets playing time. He can bully players on the block and makes the right choice most of the time. He has good court vision and passing.
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago From what I've heard, Royce was told to begin conditioning himself, instead of with the RGV or Rocket staff/teams, beginning immediately. That makes me worry that maybe he hadn't been keeping up with his physical conditioning throughout this ordeal.

    Speculation-
    I think it's safe to say Royce won't make it to the Rockets this year, whether he's not ready, or just to save face in front of the Rocket's teammates by the front office.

    I also don't expect him to be traded this season either. His value is so low, I'm unsure you can pull a late 2nd round pick out of him and it will likely increase significantly if he can make it a few months without being a part of any drama.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago IF he can average those numbers as a rookie, then this team becomes a 4 seed. I doubt that. I don't even think he'll play until the last few games of the season, if at all, this year. That's pretty optimistic. I think if he came in now, he'd average 12pts/5rbs/3ass/1blk/1stl for the season. Remember he's probably out of shape and doesn't know the offense. Plus there's almost always a learning curve.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Well, let's take a ride into far-off hypothetical land.....

    Holding everything else static (i.e. roster, current performance, etc.) what would the addition of Royce to the line-up produce? This assumes all off-court issues are non-factors.

    Let's say he is a 3-4 hybrid player with a strong handle and good passing skills as well....that is the scouting report if I'm not mistaken. Not sure about his shooting, but let's presume he can shoot from 15 feet in consistently and finish around the rim. What line-ups would he benefit the most and what kind of stat lines would we want to see?

    I'm thinking if he is on the court with Lin, Harden, Patterson/Parsons/Morris, and Asik I'd like to see 15 pts, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists. If we put him at the 4 and have Delfino/Parsons at the 3 then maybe he focuses more on defense and we see 10 pts, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block.

    OK, taking those numbers I think we would have to call that a success. I don't think he needs to score a bunch if he can create good shots for teammates and influence the game that way. Does that make him more valuable than what we already have? How does that change our offensive system?

    Just throwing out questions and wondering for the fun of it....feel free to chime in!
  • sircharles says 1 YEAR ago if his shooting has improved, yes. all the other skills are there, i REALLY like white's game.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Stephen, on 28 January 2013 - 17:05 PM said:


    DD,
    Fourth?
    I'd say 7th or so in terms of actually playing.
    Patterson,Morris,Parsons,Smith,Motie/Jones.


    If we pretended White could play this season (he won't), would it be possible for him, w/ his skillset, to be an alternative at the 3?
  • Stephen says 1 YEAR ago DD,
    Fourth?
    I'd say 7th or so in terms of actually playing.
    Patterson,Morris,Parsons,Smith,Motie/Jones.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Rawr! You eat that gazelle Royce.... Eat it right up! Get to the Vipers... tear it up like a lion! Get that hype... so we can trade you. Thank you for the journey buddy Royce!
  • Dan G says 1 YEAR ago

    rocketrick, on 25 January 2013 - 00:58 AM said:


    Let's see if Royce makes it to RGV as scheduled and let's check out what kind of physical condition he's in. I'm willing to overlook his troubled start if he kicks ass in D League. I'd be shocked if he ever plays for the Rockets this season though. Perhaps he'll be the 2013/14 Marcus Morris on our roster, one can only hope at this point!


    My sentiments exactly. I'll overlook alot of things if he actually gets on the court and starts to ball. I've hated this situation overall and lost interest the first time he refused to report to the vipers, so I don't really care either way what happens to Mr. White. If he boo-hoos his way out the league, oh well. If he actually shuts up, balls and has a NBA career, bout damn time.

    Bottom line is both sides could have handled the situation a million times better (especially White) but that is not the case, so all I can say we'll see what happens in three weeks and see if things get any better or worse by the end of the season.
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago Let's see if Royce makes it to RGV as scheduled and let's check out what kind of physical condition he's in. I'm willing to overlook his troubled start if he kicks ass in D League. I'd be shocked if he ever plays for the Rockets this season though. Perhaps he'll be the 2013/14 Marcus Morris on our roster, one can only hope at this point!
  • ale11 says 1 YEAR ago Are we really still talking about this? I don't want to be a jackass, not to those who want to give their opinion nor to people who have that condition or even about him, but the truth is that in order to make demands, you have to give something, be somebody. This guy feels entitled, and even Rockets should try to help him, I'd hate for us as a team to bendover to that baby, that would leave a precedent, a bad one, to the rest of the team. So....my opinion is that he is not worthy of any of our time or even our thoughts. When he comes around, if he ever does or if he tries to, we'll talk. In the mean time, he is noone, period.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago

    sircharles, on 24 January 2013 - 19:35 PM said:


    i think calling white a fraud and a conman is a bit insensitive, the truth of the matter is we have no idea whats going on and the seriousness of his problems, its pretty clear that he does have some mental issues though.


    I don't believe the guy has any condition other than OCD, and super ego entitlement.

    And even if he did...you can NEVER count on him, so give him a kiss on the cheek and wish him luck and say goodbye.

    He is not worth the trouble...hell he is 4th on the depth chart....

    DD
  • sircharles says 1 YEAR ago i think calling white a fraud and a conman is a bit insensitive, the truth of the matter is we have no idea whats going on and the seriousness of his problems, its pretty clear that he does have some mental issues though.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 23 January 2013 - 20:06 PM said:


    Royce will be back and reporting to the Vipers in February.

    http://blog.chron.co...return-to-team/


    Oh...REAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYY???????

    ;)
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago Haha maybe. Or maybe he's not. I don't mind the Rocket's position with him now. We don't need him, so we don't have to worry about him. It's nice because we don't have to count on him right now. I still hope he pans out just because he's under contract w/ us lol. One way or another, we're technically always better off if he pans out than if he doesn't hahaha.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago I don't think there is any way you can EVER count on Royce - ever.

    He is like that Robbin guy that went missing at the Superbowl, at some point, Royce is going to lose it, and if you rely on him in any way, it is bad for your franchise.

    The sooner the Rockets get rid of him, the better, IMO.

    Royce is a con man, and a guy who should NEVER be counted on, you just can't trust him.

    DD
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago I honestly hope Royce pans out, either as a trade asset (unlikely) or as a contributor (also unlikely, but he can ball). Fans overlook a lot of personality faults if the player is a winner, for better or for worse.
  • tombrokeoff says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 24 January 2013 - 07:17 AM said:


    I would rather skim over the Royce White trash talk than have to sit through the fire Daryl Morey thread.


    LOL!

    also let me clarify, I wasnt condemning the thread in any way, just expressing my disinterest for Royce and the entire debacle.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago I would rather skim over the Royce White trash talk than have to sit through the fire Daryl Morey thread.
  • tombrokeoff says 1 YEAR ago I only still goto this thread to clear it as listed for new content. F Royce.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago I'm not too concerned about this. I think the Rockets are calling his bluff. They will be happy to let him tool around in the D-League. Until he proves that he can be a consistent member, and contributor, to this team he will not get called up. You have to earn that spot on the roster and there will always be someone who is working harder for it than Royce.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago I will believe that Royce will be with the Vipers when it actually happens, but the guy is a class A jerk and fraud.
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 23 January 2013 - 20:06 PM said:


    Royce will be back and reporting to the Vipers in February.

    http://blog.chron.co...return-to-team/

    Thanks for the link. Im not as excited as I thought I'd be, most of that is because it's still 3 weeks til he's supposed to meet up with the Vipers, and thats a LONG time. I won't be surprised to hear that there's yet another reason he can't hold up his end of the deal.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 21 January 2013 - 22:03 PM said:


    McHale was a butt of many jokes after his try in Minnesota for a host of reasons. It's not surprising that Morey decided to go with him. He prides himself in "seeing different" but notice how our HC go from great (Van Gundy) to bottom of the barrel (McHale)? Ditto with players. Morey has been here way too long to be given "he needs more years" to improve the team. The team is worse and how many other teams has a 7 game losing streak and the 8th having to struggle against the Bobcats? Just about every year under Morey the team was a legit lottery team but Morey did enough to hurt the team and get them a few wins to keep them out. Thanks Morey now you and White please go to some other team and try and run it with magic and stats that have proven to never work.


    you didn't answer my question.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago Royce will be back and reporting to the Vipers in February.

    http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2013/01/rockets-close-to-an-agreement-with-royce-white-to-return-to-team/
  • Chichos says 1 YEAR ago I loved the White draft pick. At the time we didn't have Harden and had traded every point guard on the roster. We were obviously tanking so taking such a high risk high reward player was the perfect move. What was he the 16th pick? Of course you swing for the fences when a top 5 talent falls that far. If he busts then you wasted a 16th pick, you still tank if not more so, and you get a better pick the next year. If he hits then you found your star.

    We hate the situation because Royce turned out to be much more immature then we knew. I believe he misrepresented himself during the draft process, but that doesn't matter. The Royce situation is the expected outcome for a season that didn't happen once we traded for Harden. It might be another year or two but we will eventually be awarded with a make up pick in another draft.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 21 January 2013 - 03:20 AM said:


    you couldn't wait could you Kade. you want to throw some mud at morey so bad it's killing you isn't it? :lol: you make me laugh :lol: i'm not going to get into a morey debate on the white thread though. I saw part of the royce interview and he sound like an educated fool. what he is asking the rockets for is unrealistic. I guess when you live in looney toon land anything sounds possible. at the end of the day the rockets are a business trying to make a profit. royce saying that he wants them to make decisions on doctor's orders regardless of if it's a good business decision is looney. when is the last time any of you walked into your employer and told him you don't care if he makes a profit you want things run your way. when you do things that stupid you gotta be expecting to get tossed out on your head. in royce's case the sooner the better.


    Morey has proven to be a failed GM. That's a fact. Now, when will people start jumping off his and climb into my "fire Morey bandwagon" that's another topic.

    Did I want Morey to succeed? Certainly. Did I want Morey to look at the long term success of the Rockets? Of course! That won't happen. It's clear cut and look at it the history under Morey without Rockets fan glasses and you'll agree.

    I want to win, I want to show a clear cut direction. Morey has proven he can't provide that. Roster changes all the time, and HC fire and hire goes from great to bottom of the league.
    This is Morey's team except of course when White gets drafted then passes the buck off to the HC as if the HC can overrule Morey. Even if true (it's not, if Morey didn't like White he wouldn't have been drafted) he's still got to go, you don't want your GM who claims to know and build a successful team to allow a HC who is a failed HC and GM to draft for you.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    sircharles, on 21 January 2013 - 00:32 AM said:


    i dont know how many times this needs to be said but ROYCE WHITE WAS KEVIN MCHALE'S PICK


    MOREY HIRED KEVIN MCHALE

    Fire Morey then and lets get a GM who doesn't allow his HC to draft players like White. Either way McHale and Morey have proven they can't run or coach in the NBA.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 21 January 2013 - 03:22 AM said:


    Right on sircharles let me second that just in case it's not clear:

    Royce White was Kevin McHale's pick not Daryl Morey's pick.



    And I'm not going to even get into the other opinions about Daryl Morey which I completely disagree with and thought had been covered. Also to think that fans opinions should change about their teams just because a losing streak occurs is ridiculous, short sighted and part of the problem with fans nowadays in my opinion.

    (No matter how much disagreement there is here guys let's keep it civil and please avoid personal attacks. We are all here because we are informed and knowledgeable Rockets fans so keep it clean and stimulating. We have a higher standard here at Red94 so adhere to it.)


    So McHale is running the team? This is an excuse to stick up for Morey. Morey is the GM and hired McHale so ultimately it falls on Morey. If our GM is going to defer to the HC to draft the likes of White then even more reason to can Morey.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    miketheodio, on 20 January 2013 - 22:55 PM said:


    where do you think this team should be at with the proper coaching?


    McHale was a butt of many jokes after his try in Minnesota for a host of reasons. It's not surprising that Morey decided to go with him. He prides himself in "seeing different" but notice how our HC go from great (Van Gundy) to bottom of the barrel (McHale)? Ditto with players. Morey has been here way too long to be given "he needs more years" to improve the team. The team is worse and how many other teams has a 7 game losing streak and the 8th having to struggle against the Bobcats? Just about every year under Morey the team was a legit lottery team but Morey did enough to hurt the team and get them a few wins to keep them out. Thanks Morey now you and White please go to some other team and try and run it with magic and stats that have proven to never work.
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago Right on sircharles let me second that just in case it's not clear:

    Royce White was Kevin McHale's pick not Daryl Morey's pick.



    And I'm not going to even get into the other opinions about Daryl Morey which I completely disagree with and thought had been covered. Also to think that fans opinions should change about their teams just because a losing streak occurs is ridiculous, short sighted and part of the problem with fans nowadays in my opinion.

    (No matter how much disagreement there is here guys let's keep it civil and please avoid personal attacks. We are all here because we are informed and knowledgeable Rockets fans so keep it clean and stimulating. We have a higher standard here at Red94 so adhere to it.)
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 20 January 2013 - 21:41 PM said:


    Again this falls on Morey. This wasn't taking a chance this was stupidity and desperation. White didn't get on the plane to see calipari at Kentucky to play for them and had a pattern so it's laughable that Morey uses the "you told us getting on plane wouldn't be a problem"

    Look at it like this : you know a girl who isn't stable in the head and has never been faithful she always cheats so you ask her to be your girlfriend but first "will you be faithful this time?" She says of course! When she cheats on you it falls as much or more on you. People rarely ever change.

    Kade, on 20 January 2013 - 21:41 PM said:


    Again this falls on Morey. This wasn't taking a chance this was stupidity and desperation. White didn't get on the plane to see calipari at Kentucky to play for them and had a pattern so it's laughable that Morey uses the "you told us getting on plane wouldn't be a problem"

    Look at it like this : you know a girl who isn't stable in the head and has never been faithful she always cheats so you ask her to be your girlfriend but first "will you be faithful this time?" She says of course! When she cheats on you it falls as much or more on you. People rarely ever change.
    you couldn't wait could you Kade. you want to throw some mud at morey so bad it's killing you isn't it? :lol: you make me laugh :lol: i'm not going to get into a morey debate on the white thread though. I saw part of the royce interview and he sound like an educated fool. what he is asking the rockets for is unrealistic. I guess when you live in looney toon land anything sounds possible. at the end of the day the rockets are a business trying to make a profit. royce saying that he wants them to make decisions on doctor's orders regardless of if it's a good business decision is looney. when is the last time any of you walked into your employer and told him you don't care if he makes a profit you want things run your way. when you do things that stupid you gotta be expecting to get tossed out on your head. in royce's case the sooner the better.
  • sircharles says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 20 January 2013 - 21:41 PM said:


    Again this falls on Morey. This wasn't taking a chance this was stupidity and desperation. White didn't get on the plane to see calipari at Kentucky to play for them and had a pattern so it's laughable that Morey uses the "you told us getting on plane wouldn't be a problem"

    Look at it like this : you know a girl who isn't stable in the head and has never been faithful she always cheats so you ask her to be your girlfriend but first "will you be faithful this time?" She says of course! When she cheats on you it falls as much or more on you. People rarely ever change.


    i dont know how many times this needs to be said but ROYCE WHITE WAS KEVIN MCHALE'S PICK
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 20 January 2013 - 21:37 PM said:


    How bout them Rockets! Same thing different year.

    Guys finally ready to get off the Morey train and join me or hope one of these days his throwing darts against the wall will turn up gold?


    Not really...even if we are 9th seed again this year, that's almost like overperforming. I feel a LOT better with our team (youngest in the NBA w/ a noted franchise superstar) now and its direction than in the prior few years. At least now I can say, one or two moves and we're in contention! Before I'd say, 5 or 6 moves and we're in contention! Big difference haha.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago where do you think this team should be at with the proper coaching?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago Again this falls on Morey. This wasn't taking a chance this was stupidity and desperation. White didn't get on the plane to see calipari at Kentucky to play for them and had a pattern so it's laughable that Morey uses the "you told us getting on plane wouldn't be a problem"

    Look at it like this : you know a girl who isn't stable in the head and has never been faithful she always cheats so you ask her to be your girlfriend but first "will you be faithful this time?" She says of course! When she cheats on you it falls as much or more on you. People rarely ever change.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago How bout them Rockets! Same thing different year.

    Guys finally ready to get off the Morey train and join me or hope one of these days his throwing darts against the wall will turn up gold?
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago A letter from Daryl Morey to Royce White, from the Chronicle:

    http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2013/01/daryl-moreys-letter-to-royce-white/

    Gives a glimpse of what White is asking for as protocol.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago

    bboley24, on 18 January 2013 - 01:26 AM said:


    Apparently he doesn't like 2-a-days.


    Or even 1 a days.....
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Apparently he doesn't like 2-a-days.
  • Alituro says 1 YEAR ago DD

    He was this musician/writer guy who dabbled in Basketball one year at Iowa State, put up pretty good numbers too.. I haven't heard or read anything by him though.
    <_<
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Who is Royce White, was he somebody at some point?

    ;)
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago @RBF: Oh, I agree. I'm not saying that if the desire isn't there a player should be dismissed out of hand. Just that desire is an important factor, particularly when you're trying to forecast how good a player will be in the future. Of course, that's not what Morey is doing. As he has said in the past, he is trying to draft players who have a chance to become a star, which means predictions of the median career trajectory have to be ditched in favour of the distribution at the upper end of the spectrum.

    I'm not sure your point about first impressions is relevent here though. It doesn't matter that a player is actually a willing and capable worker if GMs are unable to see that. No personnel decision can or should be made on the basis of information that the the people in charge don't have. Smart Front Offices maximise the amount of information in order to minimise the number of mistakes they make like this, but at the end of the day in the drafting process if you don't make a good first impression, well that's probably the only impression you're going to get a chance to make.

    ST
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago Sir Thursday:
    I agree attitude and preferences go a long way in considering a player's willingness to do the necessary work to maximize his talents. however to use that as the sole reason to pass on a players potential without weighing it in context with all other things about that player would be unwise. people's interest change all the time. i'm not trying to belittle it as one of the factors that need to be considered. i'm just saying it shouldn't be the only factor considered. the rockets probably considered this fact, but decided royce had dealt with it in college maybe just maybe he could do the same in the nba. An old man once told me (when you meet people you don't meet them at first. you meet their representative. you don't meet them till much later). I lived long enough to see he was right. so no matter what kind of first impression you make people will find out who you are over time. I wouldn't put to much weight on what a player likes. I would put more weight on if he has displayed the comittment to working hard regardless of he he liked it or not.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 15 January 2013 - 22:37 PM said:


    SIR Thursday:
    all players don't play the the game because they love it. some play it because their good at it. they simply have the intangables necessary to excell at the sport. while I will agree it does warrant a closer look at a player, there are many factors that go into the process. like I said b4 (who said the rockets didn't take a closer look and thought they could deal with his issues). royce was a gamble, but the kid clearly has the intangables that may lead to suscess in the nba. did the rockets underestimate how far in left field royce was? probably, but the fact they took the gamble shows me that they willing to take the gambles that I think are necessary to build a contending team. you don't win every time out. royce has other interest besides basketball.......big deal. I hope he blossoms at something because it doesn't look like it's going to be basketball. I believe that when a players expresses interest in other things it does have to be taken into context with everything else about that player, but to say that's grounds for dismissing a players potiental is a little overboard.


    I'm not saying the Rockets made the wrong decision in taking a gamble - personally I think it was a good risk to take. The guy certainly has the talent and if you could keep his mindset right I'm sure he would be capable of being a productive NBA player.

    My point was that if a player is doing this because he's good at this rather than because he wants to do it then he will be less motivated to take the necessary steps to succeed in the league. Being a star in the NBA requires a lot of hard work and dedication. While I'm sure there are many players in the league who are playing primarily because of aptitude rather than any innate passion, I'm also pretty certain that you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the upper echelons of the league (top 20 or so players) who doesn't have "Playing Basketball" at or near the top of their list of favourite activities.

    As with any job, the more you enjoy it the more you're going to find the impetus for self-improvement. Not having that enjoyment is going to put a ceiling on the level you can attain at it. And thus someone who doesn't put basketball first therefore is likely to develop slower and not necessarily achieve their full potential. To repeat - It's not a problem at all to have other interests than basketball. But it might be a problem if those other interests take precedence over the game.

    ST
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago SIR Thursday:
    all players don't play the the game because they love it. some play it because their good at it. they simply have the intangables necessary to excell at the sport. while I will agree it does warrant a closer look at a player, there are many factors that go into the process. like I said b4 (who said the rockets didn't take a closer look and thought they could deal with his issues). royce was a gamble, but the kid clearly has the intangables that may lead to suscess in the nba. did the rockets underestimate how far in left field royce was? probably, but the fact they took the gamble shows me that they willing to take the gambles that I think are necessary to build a contending team. you don't win every time out. royce has other interest besides basketball.......big deal. I hope he blossoms at something because it doesn't look like it's going to be basketball. I believe that when a players expresses interest in other things it does have to be taken into context with everything else about that player, but to say that's grounds for dismissing a players potiental is a little overboard.
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago How did the Rockets handle the situation in a manner that causes you to blame them?

    Royce knew by declaring for the NBA draft that would require him to frequently fly by aircraft. When confronted with this he asked if he could supply a bus to travel by(when possible), the Rockets complied, and the NBA agreed to the contract changes that allowed this. The next issue was the Rockets wanted him to attend a meeting with the team doctor(which is a requirement in his contract), Royce declined the interview then later he went through with it. I'm assuming at this point(all anyone can do is assume here as it's not all public information) that he got news from the team doctor that he didn't like. When the Rockets tried to send Royce to RGV we all saw an outburst by Royce. This is the Rockets decision to make as far as sending a player down, how is there any blame toward them for that?
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Sir Thursday, on 15 January 2013 - 17:14 PM said:


    I do remember an interesting anecdote from one of the Sloan Sports Analytics conferences a few years back, though I can't remember who it was attributed to. Someone in a position of power in an NBA front office said he asked Marcus Banks (remember him?) what his ambitions in life were and the guy said "to be a male model". That to him threw up a red flag, because he was expecting the response to be something basketball related. While eating/sleeping basketball 24/7 is not required or even necessarily healthy in a player, having one's primary goal be to playing basketball is a highly desirable trait because it ensures that the player will be willing to take the steps he needs to do in order to succeed at the NBA level.

    ST


    Exactly. Good anecdote. I truly don't blame the Rockets for the pick, but I blame them for handling the situation like they did. They had all of the information and unless he demanded playing time and he wanted his doctors to have the final say on how he played(that's the coach's jurisdiction) then I'm not sure what the problem is. They obviously whiffed, but hindsight is 20/20.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 15 January 2013 - 03:52 AM said:


    He said he was a writer FIRST and a baksetball player second is a HUGE red flag. That doesn't condemn him, but it makes us take a closer look. It's that in combination of other things that should be warning signs. I love Arian Foster. I did think he would take a step back since he went Vegan right at the beginning of the year, but he proved most of us wrong. And when did I say he can't be good because he has more than one interest? I said that his priorities are with writing(aka Twitter) and not his NBA career is a negative. Did Foster ever say I'm a poet first and a member of the Texans second? I don't think so.


    I do remember an interesting anecdote from one of the Sloan Sports Analytics conferences a few years back, though I can't remember who it was attributed to. Someone in a position of power in an NBA front office said he asked Marcus Banks (remember him?) what his ambitions in life were and the guy said "to be a male model". That to him threw up a red flag, because he was expecting the response to be something basketball related. While eating/sleeping basketball 24/7 is not required or even necessarily healthy in a player, having one's primary goal be to playing basketball is a highly desirable trait because it ensures that the player will be willing to take the steps he needs to do in order to succeed at the NBA level.

    ST
  • Stephen says 1 YEAR ago The Rockets picked Royce because they evaluated as a top 5 talent-in that Draft. Lots of top 5 talents bust,taking one at #16,no brainer.
    They wanted him because they wanted a passing big,now with Harden they don't really need one.

    Now in a Revisionist Draft who would they take at 16?
    Zeller? Meh. Jones? Since they drafted Jones at 18,presumably they liked him over everyone drafted after him.
    Do they draft Zeller and do a Cavs trade? Even tho Cavs threw in 2 Seconds and the last thing the Rockets wanted was MORE picks at end of 2012 Draft. But,suppose the Rockets draft Zeller and trade him to Cavs for the Cavs #24 and the 2015 Miami First or Orlando 2013 Second and a future Second.
    The Rockets then draft Jones at #18 and at #24 draft...? Suppose Royce falls that far,the Rockets would almost have to pick him :)
    Lets assume Dallas takes him as was rumored.
    Possibly PJ3,but he seems kinda redundant to Jones and Morris. My hope is they would have taken Jeffrey Taylor,SF from Vandy. An excellent defensive SF who runs and has shown a better than expected ability to score in NBA. He would have been the perfect running mate for Delfino.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Im with that die character. I played competitive basketball all the way through college and I must say, if you're good enough for the NBA... you have the want and desire to be that good. It just doesn't shine down on you. The man got a stage and now he doesn't care about basketball.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 15 January 2013 - 03:52 AM said:


    He said he was a writer FIRST and a baksetball player second is a HUGE red flag. That doesn't condemn him, but it makes us take a closer look. It's that in combination of other things that should be warning signs. I love Arian Foster. I did think he would take a step back since he went Vegan right at the beginning of the year, but he proved most of us wrong. And when did I say he can't be good because he has more than one interest? I said that his priorities are with writing(aka Twitter) and not his NBA career is a negative. Did Foster ever say I'm a poet first and a member of the Texans second? I don't think so.
    I agree it warranted taking a closer look, but who said the rockets didn't take a closer look. I refuse too look through those hindsight 20/20 vision glasses. the rockets took a gamble. didn't work out. I am not one for crying over spilled milk. I just want the rockets to resolve the issue. I don't feel a need to cut royce down. he is doing that for himself. royce has become a thorn in the foot to the rockets. I just want them to get it removed so we can get back to basketball talk instead of dicussions about levels of insanity.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago He said he was a writer FIRST and a baksetball player second is a HUGE red flag. That doesn't condemn him, but it makes us take a closer look. It's that in combination of other things that should be warning signs. I love Arian Foster. I did think he would take a step back since he went Vegan right at the beginning of the year, but he proved most of us wrong. And when did I say he can't be good because he has more than one interest? I said that his priorities are with writing(aka Twitter) and not his NBA career is a negative. Did Foster ever say I'm a poet first and a member of the Texans second? I don't think so.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 14 January 2013 - 23:21 PM said:


    totally disagree. are you saying a player has to sleep and eat basketball or he will be no good? many players have other interest. no one is mad when foster reads his poetry. it is possible to be good at more than one thing. heck there are players who do sleep and eat basketball and still turn out to be duds. saying a person can not be good at one thing simply because they have interest in other areas doesn't make sense to me. looking back in hinesight is always 20/20. royce was a gamble that hasn't panned out.... nothing more nothing less. attempting to cut down royce on the basis of what he does in his spare time is unfair. now if you want to cut him down for his inability to handle his responsabilities.... I can live with that. if you want to cut him down for his child like behavior.... I can live with that. even if you want to cut him down because he is an untalented priva donna......I can live with that, but saying the man can't be good solely on the basis of having more than one interest is unreasonable.
    yeah. even though it isn't basketball, take a look at arian foster. he has many interests beside football and he's still a good running back.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago even if we didnt get white, that pick also could have been a bust.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 14 January 2013 - 18:19 PM said:


    Based on his attitude, post-draft, I would say that it was a mistake to draft White. His comments about being a writer first/basketball player second and his other behaviours just reinforces his lack of committment to basketball. However, if his phobia about planes are real, then he did try at the beginning of the season to work on it, but his lack of playing time made it seem to him not worth the hassle(at least that's my opinion).
    totally disagree. are you saying a player has to sleep and eat basketball or he will be no good? many players have other interest. no one is mad when foster reads his poetry. it is possible to be good at more than one thing. heck there are players who do sleep and eat basketball and still turn out to be duds. saying a person can not be good at one thing simply because they have interest in other areas doesn't make sense to me. looking back in hinesight is always 20/20. royce was a gamble that hasn't panned out.... nothing more nothing less. attempting to cut down royce on the basis of what he does in his spare time is unfair. now if you want to cut him down for his inability to handle his responsabilities.... I can live with that. if you want to cut him down for his child like behavior.... I can live with that. even if you want to cut him down because he is an untalented priva donna......I can live with that, but saying the man can't be good solely on the basis of having more than one interest is unreasonable.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 14 January 2013 - 15:33 PM said:


    Does it really matter except the fact Morey and the Rockets threw away a pick? Getting revenge won't hide the fact Morey was the laughing stock and just as easily could have said they were going to take that pick and draft himself. I was shocked when we drafted him as were all the other GMs that bypassed him for obvious reasons.
    Perhaps drafting someone else wouldn't have worked but with Sullinger and PJ3 still on the board at least take a chance on a guy who doesn't freak out by the mere thought of getting on a plane.
    revenge. that's a strong word. I have nothing personal against royce. I simply want the rockets to resolve the distraction he is causing for the team. I could care less what royce does once he's gone. as for morey being a laughing stock......I don't think chicago is laughing about asik and neither are the other gm's in the league. every gm understand that the draft is a hit/miss business. name one gm who has hit on every pick. not even your golden boy presti has done that :lol: morey hits way more than he misses, but you are unable to see it because you are blinded by your hate for the job he does. I was also against the white drafting, but I can't fault morey for rolling the dice. it's the nature of the business. now since you seem to like sullinger, what's the rap on him. good player, very bad knees. we were searching for players with durability. this team is being built for the future right? we want someone who will be around by then right? that's probably why we didn't draft him. pj3 has proved the same thing as the rooks we have up to this point......nothing. sorry lebron wasn't on the board for our 3 picks and we had to take a chance on some unproven talent, but that's just the way it is. live with it or maybe root for another team who meets your standards, though I doubt you will find one.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago Based on his attitude, post-draft, I would say that it was a mistake to draft White. His comments about being a writer first/basketball player second and his other behaviours just reinforces his lack of committment to basketball. However, if his phobia about planes are real, then he did try at the beginning of the season to work on it, but his lack of playing time made it seem to him not worth the hassle(at least that's my opinion).
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 14 January 2013 - 15:33 PM said:


    Does it really matter except the fact Morey and the Rockets threw away a pick? Getting revenge won't hide the fact Morey was the laughing stock and just as easily could have said they were going to take that pick and draft himself. I was shocked when we drafted him as were all the other GMs that bypassed him for obvious reasons.
    Perhaps drafting someone else wouldn't have worked but with Sullinger and PJ3 still on the board at least take a chance on a guy who doesn't freak out by the mere thought of getting on a plane.


    Yeah, looking at the 2012 draft post-rockets picks it doesn't look that strong; although, I am sure a few players will break out down the road. I haven't really gotten to see either Jones or Sullinger play, but based on his numbers I'm not sure what you're pining for with PJ3. Here are his stats for the year:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6598/perry-jones

    Maybe he blossoms, but for now I'm not missing him.

    And Sullinger is the second coming of Glen "big baby" davis....not a bad player, but you know what you're getting with him--not enough.

    I still think Kim English ends up being a solid player, but who knows.....

    Point is, Morey made a play that was risky and it looks like he fell flat on this one. I'm not sure if you play poker, but sometimes, you chase that flush, or straight, even when it seems unlikely....because when it does hit, it hits big. Also, looking at the rest of the draftees I don't fault him very much for rolling the dice.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    Bigtkirk, on 14 January 2013 - 13:37 PM said:


    Look at it this way. If White's ailment were a physical illness or injury, and a dispute arose between the team and the player over whether the player was physically able to perform under the contract, the dispute would be resolved through arbitration pursuant to the collective bargaining agreement. Both sides would present their experts regarding the illness or injury and the arbitrator would decide the issue of whether the player is physically able to perform. Where the player can provide experts who testify that he is physically unable to perform, my understanding is that the player usually wins. Unless the player covered up the illness or injury at the time the team and the players entered into the contract (extremely unlikely -- that's why contracts are subject to extensive physical examinations), the team has no other basis to void the contract. Inasmuch as the compensation is guaranteed, the team must pay the player.

    White's situation is really no different from the above. He has mental ailment that was known by both parties at the time he entered into the contract. He contends that the ailment prevents him from being physically able to perform his duties under the contract. The team disagrees. The dispute will end up in arbitration where White will probably win so long as he his legal team can present reasonably effective experts who testify that White is physically unable to perform. Inasmuch as the Rockets knew about White's condition and took the risk related to it in entering into a guaranteed contract with White, the team has no other basis to void the contract.

    In view of the foregoing, rather than making this a drawn out distraction for the team, the Rockets should just accept the failed risk, settle up with White and move on.


    We have no idea what his aliment is since only his family doctor many many many years ago diagnosed him with his condition. He could be right or wrong but a general practitioner isn't fit to make that decision.
    This looks like it's a case where he pulled a fast one and the Rockets took the bait. He ultimately doesn't want to play for whatever reason and knows once you sign it's guaranteed. That's speculation on my end just like others are saying he's clearly sick in the head. Who knows?
    Until a doctor who is certified and specializes in mental health evaluates him it's all speculation.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 12 January 2013 - 02:16 AM said:


    hahaha :D I don't think even al can help in this one :D royce is waiting for the rockets to attempt to void his contract. that's when the real fireworks will start. this is going to be settled in court. and personally I can't wait for the rockets to give royce that wakeup pill. only when he finds himself out of the nba will the reality hit of the chance he blew with the rockets


    Does it really matter except the fact Morey and the Rockets threw away a pick? Getting revenge won't hide the fact Morey was the laughing stock and just as easily could have said they were going to take that pick and draft himself. I was shocked when we drafted him as were all the other GMs that bypassed him for obvious reasons.
    Perhaps drafting someone else wouldn't have worked but with Sullinger and PJ3 still on the board at least take a chance on a guy who doesn't freak out by the mere thought of getting on a plane.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 11 January 2013 - 03:36 AM said:


    Kade is the type of fan that will never be happy unless we win it all and even then he will be complaining. if we had passed on white and he went to some other team and blossomed he would be questioning why we didn't take him even though we had 3 draft picks. you can never make him happy


    the point is that if he was drafted by someone else he would still be out, even his wikipedia before the draft documented the Kentucky incident and was widely reported.
    You honestly think 15 picks prior GMs just magically forgot that White was on the board?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 11 January 2013 - 03:36 AM said:


    Kade is the type of fan that will never be happy unless we win it all and even then he will be complaining. if we had passed on white and he went to some other team and blossomed he would be questioning why we didn't take him even though we had 3 draft picks. you can never make him happy


    I'm very happy when the teams I pull for make smart moves. I think you fall into the large category that a lot of fans in Houston unfortunately fit under, the "we don't do wrong and I'll defend them and hope next year we will magically win". Rockets, Texans and Astros, it's always the same thing, right?

    Yes I want the teams I pull for the win championships or at least get there. Sadly most fans and the media in Houston don't want to put pressure on their teams and as a result has the worst history of all sports in terms of championships for a big city.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago .
  • Bigtkirk says 1 YEAR ago Look at it this way. If White's ailment were a physical illness or injury, and a dispute arose between the team and the player over whether the player was physically able to perform under the contract, the dispute would be resolved through arbitration pursuant to the collective bargaining agreement. Both sides would present their experts regarding the illness or injury and the arbitrator would decide the issue of whether the player is physically able to perform. Where the player can provide experts who testify that he is physically unable to perform, my understanding is that the player usually wins. Unless the player covered up the illness or injury at the time the team and the players entered into the contract (extremely unlikely -- that's why contracts are subject to extensive physical examinations), the team has no other basis to void the contract. Inasmuch as the compensation is guaranteed, the team must pay the player.

    White's situation is really no different from the above. He has mental ailment that was known by both parties at the time he entered into the contract. He contends that the ailment prevents him from being physically able to perform his duties under the contract. The team disagrees. The dispute will end up in arbitration where White will probably win so long as he his legal team can present reasonably effective experts who testify that White is physically unable to perform. Inasmuch as the Rockets knew about White's condition and took the risk related to it in entering into a guaranteed contract with White, the team has no other basis to void the contract.

    In view of the foregoing, rather than making this a drawn out distraction for the team, the Rockets should just accept the failed risk, settle up with White and move on.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago Bigtkirk:
    royce is not fulfilling the terms of his contract. that's one very good reason to void his contract. I am no lawyer, but if either party falls to meet contract obilgations it's grounds to void the deal. I think it will end up in court because the issue at hand is bigger than the fight between royce and the rockets. royce is acusing the rockets organization and nba overall for not having the proper tools to deal with what he considers a handicap. that's an issue that will have to be settled in court.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago I agree with the last... We aren't hurting for roster space so the play is on Royce.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago They don't need to void it, just keep him assigned to the D-league and suspended without pay.
  • Bigtkirk says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 12 January 2013 - 02:16 AM said:


    royce is waiting for the rockets to attempt to void his contract. that's when the real fireworks will start. this is going to be settled in court.


    I agree that the Rockets suspended White in order to begin the process of settling their contractual obligation to him. But what grounds do they have to void the contract? The Rockets entered into it with the full knowledge that While had a chronic illness that might prevent him from performing under the contract. Despite that, the Rockets guaranteed payment of the compensation under the contract. Sure, there might be a dispute between White's doctors and the Rockets' doctors as to whether White can perform his obligations under the contract, but doubt on that issue is probably going to be adjudicated in White's favor. So, my sense is that the best route for the Rockets is to realize that this risk didn't pan out, cut their losses, settle the contract and move on.

    BTW, I don't see how this ends up in court. Under the CBA, these matters are resolved through binding arbitration.
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago Its a good place for people to see that nothing has happened though, instead of a new topic being started every day asking about him.
  • sircharles says 1 YEAR ago we should lock this thread and just forget about royce white until something actually happens
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago feigen is a good reporter, but may have drop the ball on this one. if their is anyone who has a better pair of rocket colored glasses than me it might be him :P however I do respect his opinions.
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago I recently saw Johnathan Feigen mention on Twitter that he believes RW will someday suit up for the Rockets. He said he knows nothing more than the general public. So my question is, when did Feigen lose his mind?
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    bboley24, on 12 January 2013 - 03:14 AM said:


    Do you think the Rockets will go that far?
    YES without a doubt. I don't think we will see it this season, but if the problems are not resolved by seasons end, I expect it. the rockets have made sure to dot every I and cross every T. when I heard les response to a question on royce and he responded" it would be a shame to waste a first round draft, but you win some you lose some" that doesn't sound too optimistic. les may save already accepted the fact that royce is a lost cause. which leads me to believe that if there were not repercussion for the league involved royce would have already recieved his walking papers. this is why the rockets have been maticulase(I know this spelling is bad :lol:) in dealing with royce.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Do you think the Rockets will go that far?
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago

    bboley24, on 12 January 2013 - 01:49 AM said:


    So Royce is eating cheetos again? What is the next step of this suspension? Lawsuits? Is the players association behind him? Where is Al Sharpton????
    hahaha :D I don't think even al can help in this one :D royce is waiting for the rockets to attempt to void his contract. that's when the real fireworks will start. this is going to be settled in court. and personally I can't wait for the rockets to give royce that wakeup pill. only when he finds himself out of the nba will the reality hit of the chance he blew with the rockets
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago So Royce is eating cheetos again? What is the next step of this suspension? Lawsuits? Is the players association behind him? Where is Al Sharpton????
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Everyone was recruiting Durant, but if memory serves his final two were North Carolina and Texas.
  • Ostrow says 1 YEAR ago I'm also not convinced Kentucky wasn't recruiting KD. He was the 2nd best player (rated) in that class. He had his choice of places to go.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago Kade is the type of fan that will never be happy unless we win it all and even then he will be complaining. if we had passed on white and he went to some other team and blossomed he would be questioning why we didn't take him even though we had 3 draft picks. you can never make him happy
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago Didn't Royce White have a strong finish to his career at Iowa State including his performances in the Tournament? I can't get inside Morey's and Alexnder's head, but I wouldn't at all be surprised both knew about the incident Kade likes to keep referring to, the one where White wouldn't get on a plane to meet with Calipari. Most experts stated Royce White was a top 5 pick but because of his fear of flying, etc. he was an obvious risk no matter where he was drafted. The Rockets had the luxury of 3 first round picks between 12-18, so why not roll the dice on a Royce White and take it from there. Unfortunately things have not worked out and probably never will with Royce White. It is still quite early to know for certain, though. As I recall, the Rockets selected some guy named Marcus Morris last season that had his own issues but fortunately he has turned out to be a valuable rotation player, even a starter currently, for our team. I say be patient with the Royce White situation. It may take another year or longer for this to get worked out for the benefit of all parties. What's the rush??
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    Ostrow, on 09 January 2013 - 00:48 AM said:


    I'm just saying that the multiple school doesn't mean that the player won't be good or has mental issues, or anything like that.. Some guys just play for different schools.


    Calipari wanted him to fly to Kentucky for a meet and greet to play for Kentucky. White bailed because he couldn't get on the plane. That's well documented. 15 other teams said no thanks. Morey got too cute and burned as a result. He pissed and threw away that pick. Can't afford to do that when you are just trying to get into the playoffs. There were much better gambles at that pick. Look at two teams who are successful, OKC and Boston who I would have much rather drafted at that spot instead. They have history of great picks so hard to argue Morey was smart.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    bboley24, on 08 January 2013 - 23:55 PM said:


    Without lamb or toronto... we have no harden.


    Not true, OKC tried to trade Harden for two of their players and ZERO draft picks but they didn't want to pay Harden so it didn't get done.
  • Ostrow says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 08 January 2013 - 14:47 PM said:


    Durant never got a call from Calipari to come do a meet and greet to play for Kentucky and backed out cause flying freaked him out. I don't know but to me I know that why would a player turn that down? Two reasons 1. He has serious issues or 2. Doesn't like the limelight or pressure

    Seems like he has a bit of both and probably the real reason he doesn't want to play in the NBA.


    I'm just saying that the multiple school doesn't mean that the player won't be good or has mental issues, or anything like that.. Some guys just play for different schools.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Without lamb or toronto... we have no harden.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 08 January 2013 - 15:21 PM said:


    More like dumb luck. OKC was offered better deals and shockingly took ours. We will never get a Harden like offer again so unless we magically get another superstar then what? Again, two tried and true methods, no more no less in how to produce a championship team. Just think we could already have a lottery player and Lin and Harden and Asik if Morey wasn't so interested in having the best worst team in the NBA like 4 years in a row. Congrats?


    that is BS. yes there was some luck, but if morey hadn't maneuvered the team to get the assets it had (draft picks), OKC wouldn't have accepted the trade and would have went to another team.
  • hubeijames says 1 YEAR ago I'm surprised he's so open about the fact that the only doctor he has ever used and trusts is the family GP. His unwillingness to get specialist treatment really kills his credibility that he even has serious mental issues in the first place. Hard to hide behind a disease that you apparently have never even taken a serious effort to treat, or behind a general practitioner who must be a very poor doctor to have failed to refer you to a psychiatrist.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Just read the transcript from White's most recent interview. It shed some light on his personal experience and things we have conjectured. As a person, I can see him in a positive light; however, regarding the Rockets I still would like to see him move on to another pasture. Good luck, Royce!
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago Great comments section of this article, like this one

    Quote:

    I was inclined to be sympathetic to Royce before this interview, but after reading this, I've got none. The Rockets bent over backwards to accommodate his various phobias and anxieties*, then he rips them on twitter and refuses to do anything to earn the $2MM per year he has coming to him.

    Meanwhile, he keeps on talking about "protocol" without getting into specifics about what the Rockets have done wrong (one of the classiest organizations in sports, btw). I suspect it's because they haven't done anything wrong.

    At a certain point, the Rockets have to dedicate some management time to the other 20 players on their roster and run a coherent basketball offense and defense. And at a certain point, they have to write off this total waste of a first round draft pick and $11 million (!) in guaranteed money.

    *list so far as I car tell is OCD, PTSD (!), fear of flying, fear of cars, fear of spontaneously dying of a heart attack, unexplained migraines, fear of lung collapse, inability to sleep, and sweaty palms (can't be good for shooting). Sign this guy up!
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 08 January 2013 - 16:30 PM said:


    It seems he's been "overdiagnosed." He's convinced he has all of these disorders.


    by a family general doctor yet never wants or has gotten a diagnosis to either confirm or not if he has that? Bizarre. Makes me believe ultimately he doesn't want to play ball (yet get the $) he even mentions he's a writer first then ball player. Incredible.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago News to all GMs don't EVER draft someone when this happens

    STEFAN: In Jon’s film, we saw you struggle on draft day to even be in the room with your family and friends as picks were being announced.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago It seems he's been "overdiagnosed." He's convinced he has all of these disorders.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago interesting piece thanks for posting but here's my big problem why is he listening to his family practitioner doctor who isn't specialized in his condition which may not even be legit since a general family doctor told him so? He gets on the Rockets for not being knowledgeable and doesn't think Morey who isn't specialized in this to make medical/mental decisions regarding this issue I get but at the same time the Rockets wanted him to see a doctor that specializes in this and he balked.

    If your family doctor says you have a mental illness or something outside the scope of his expertise you get a second opinion from someone who specializes in that.
  • Red94 says 1 YEAR ago New post: Royce White interview with Slate.com
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 08 January 2013 - 15:26 PM said:


    The Rockets are rolling, the team seems to be gelling and things are looking up. Morey is one of the BEST at spotting talent. It's not his fault Lin got away, that's the coach's fault. He brought Lin in from GS but the coach didn't think much of him. Don't rewrite history to suit your narrative. I agree they need a second superstar to win a chip unless they come together and play like a team. The Pistons didn't have any superstars they just had a ton of borderline all-stars which allowed them to win a ring. We already got Harden and I think Asik/Parsons/Lin have the potential to be borderline all-stars every year if they stay focused on getting better which they seem to be. Is Morey perfect? No. But he's made the best of a bad situation. He tried to do what you say and suck, why do you think he amnestied Scola? Is it his fault that the coach and players didn't take as much time to gel as he thought they would?


    He's not even close to perfect if you go by at least getting into the postseason and winning as measuring stick. It's his fault for not following the ways to become a powerhouse. He's more focused on bucking the trend (a la Billy Beane which never won a championship) and doing it his way (different). People want to praise him for what little he has to work with well he brings that on himself by getting just enough talent to be the best worst team. That's a fact and happens every year. That's a model that will fail every time and hope and luck once in a while may get you in the playoffs but not sustainable. I like Morey honestly but he's failed big time as a GM. The proof is year after year he sticks to his method which doesn't work. Maybe we will get lucky and a star will want to come but how is that a good model to run your organization on?
    They are rolling but they have also played a lot of home games. That should regress as they play more on the road.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 08 January 2013 - 15:21 PM said:


    More like dumb luck. OKC was offered better deals and shockingly took ours. We will never get a Harden like offer again so unless we magically get another superstar then what? Again, two tried and true methods, no more no less in how to produce a championship team. Just think we could already have a lottery player and Lin and Harden and Asik if Morey wasn't so interested in having the best worst team in the NBA like 4 years in a row. Congrats?


    The Rockets are rolling, the team seems to be gelling and things are looking up. Morey is one of the BEST at spotting talent. It's not his fault Lin got away, that's the coach's fault. He brought Lin in from GS but the coach didn't think much of him. Don't rewrite history to suit your narrative. I agree they need a second superstar to win a chip unless they come together and play like a team. The Pistons didn't have any superstars they just had a ton of borderline all-stars which allowed them to win a ring. We already got Harden and I think Asik/Parsons/Lin have the potential to be borderline all-stars every year if they stay focused on getting better which they seem to be. Is Morey perfect? No. But he's made the best of a bad situation. He tried to do what you say and suck, why do you think he amnestied Scola? Is it his fault that the coach and players didn't take as much time to gel as he thought they would?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 08 January 2013 - 15:15 PM said:


    He got Harden. How? By trading and trading and getting the pieces(a la Martin) to get Harden. He hasn't always made the best decisions but would you seriously rather be Sacremento, Toronto, Washington, etc... This team has a bright future and is a legit PF and a deep bench away from competing for a championship. Harden is the best player to play for the Rockets since Hakeem.


    More like dumb luck. OKC was offered better deals and shockingly took ours. We will never get a Harden like offer again so unless we magically get another superstar then what? Again, two tried and true methods, no more no less in how to produce a championship team. Just think we could already have a lottery player and Lin and Harden and Asik if Morey wasn't so interested in having the best worst team in the NBA like 4 years in a row. Congrats?
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 08 January 2013 - 15:10 PM said:


    Competitive, since when under Morey? You mean the Yao and McGrady years? That predates Morey.

    Spurs threw games to get Duncan (and luck since they weren't the worst team, Celtics were) and as I mentioned already the other way are teams with sound NBA history that players want to go play for (Celtics, Lakers and Bulls as I mentioned as examples)

    I'm not angry I'm just amazed how people can accept being the best bad team year after year yet still praise him. Low expectations and praying isn't going to get you into the playoffs let alone a championship which is proven to be the case so far. The Money Ball method has never and will never work. Even Oakland didn't get to World Series under Bean. It sounds good and it's fun to talk about stats but at the end of the day the ONLY two ways you are going to build a legit championship kind of team. Morey doesn't agree and has used his own system and has failed to date. Maybe another 10 years he'll get lucky once?


    He got Harden. How? By trading and trading and getting the pieces(a la Martin) to get Harden. He hasn't always made the best decisions but would you seriously rather be Sacremento, Toronto, Washington, etc... This team has a bright future and is a legit PF and a deep bench away from competing for a championship. Harden is the best player to play for the Rockets since Hakeem.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 08 January 2013 - 15:03 PM said:


    Heat/Celtics/Lakers/Spurs disagree about throwing games. Or are you angry that he put together competitive enough teams to keep the Rockets away from the top tier lottery picks. Are you saying he wasn't corrupt enough?


    Competitive, since when under Morey? You mean the Yao and McGrady years? That predates Morey.

    Spurs threw games to get Duncan (and luck since they weren't the worst team, Celtics were) and as I mentioned already the other way are teams with sound NBA history that players want to go play for (Celtics, Lakers and Bulls as I mentioned as examples)

    I'm not angry I'm just amazed how people can accept being the best bad team year after year yet still praise him. Low expectations and praying isn't going to get you into the playoffs let alone a championship which is proven to be the case so far. The Money Ball method has never and will never work. Even Oakland didn't get to World Series under Bean. It sounds good and it's fun to talk about stats but at the end of the day the ONLY two ways you are going to build a legit championship kind of team. Morey doesn't agree and has used his own system and has failed to date. Maybe another 10 years he'll get lucky once?
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 08 January 2013 - 14:59 PM said:


    I'd rather have some top three lottery pick players with Asik/Harden which we could easily have had if we stopped playing best worst team in the NBA for many wasted years. Morey's ego is too big for that to happen though.

    If Morey knew what he had we could have had Lin for peanuts either way he isn't a max contract player Morey overpaid because he blew up for a few weeks in NY and kicked himself for not knowing what he had.

    Look at Morey's results, no sniff in the playoffs, nada, zero. Don't count McGrady/Yao years either which predated Morey. Results is proof and go look at OKC as to how to build a team, that's how you do it by having multiple bad years and the smarts to draft Harden and Westbrook higher than what everyone says.


    Heat/Celtics/Lakers/Spurs disagree about throwing games. Or are you angry that he put together competitive enough teams to keep the Rockets away from the top tier lottery picks. Are you saying he wasn't corrupt enough?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    timetodienow1234567, on 08 January 2013 - 14:48 PM said:


    Are you saying you'd rather have the team of Dragic/Scola/Martin/Budinger etc... than a team with Asik/Lin/Harden/Parsons??? Seriously?


    I'd rather have some top three lottery pick players with Asik/Harden which we could easily have had if we stopped playing best worst team in the NBA for many wasted years. Morey's ego is too big for that to happen though.

    If Morey knew what he had we could have had Lin for peanuts either way he isn't a max contract player Morey overpaid because he blew up for a few weeks in NY and kicked himself for not knowing what he had.

    Look at Morey's results, no sniff in the playoffs, nada, zero. Don't count McGrady/Yao years either which predated Morey. Results is proof and go look at OKC as to how to build a team, that's how you do it by having multiple bad years and the smarts to draft Harden and Westbrook higher than what everyone says.
  • timetodienow1234567 says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 08 January 2013 - 14:44 PM said:


    I'm saying Morey needs to take a hit here. The Harden deal had little to do with Morey and in fact OKC got better offers and many were stumped as to why they made the deal with us.
    Under Morey we have regressed in regards to coaching as well. I think he doesn't want a dynamic HC who has proven to be a winner, if so then he ultimately doesn't have more control.
    Hopefully we will get lucky and get another franchise player but we'd be a lot further if we had played our younger guys taken a chance at lottery picks in the draft than his way.


    Are you saying you'd rather have the team of Dragic/Scola/Martin/Budinger etc... than a team with Asik/Lin/Harden/Parsons??? Seriously?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    Ostrow, on 07 January 2013 - 21:45 PM said:


    The thing about White playing for two colleges isn't really a mental issue. He was essentially kicked out of Minnesota. He got caught stealing. And a lot of people play for multiple high schools. I think Durant played for 3 so I don't think that is anything either.


    Durant never got a call from Calipari to come do a meet and greet to play for Kentucky and backed out cause flying freaked him out. I don't know but to me I know that why would a player turn that down? Two reasons 1. He has serious issues or 2. Doesn't like the limelight or pressure

    Seems like he has a bit of both and probably the real reason he doesn't want to play in the NBA.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 07 January 2013 - 19:29 PM said:


    Kade:
    the rockets b4 this year were looking for a star. as the princess would say (sometimes you got to kiss a lot of frogs b4 you find the prince). so I for 1 don't have a problem with moving players trying to get better players. morey has not been perfect, but (IMO) has played the hand he's been dealt pretty well. last year when he broke up the team I questioned it for awhile , but looking back now I can see morey was not trying to find good players he was after a star. kudos to him for staying focused despite people like you calling for his head. their is no doubt morey has stepped in the dodo a couple of times, but being a gm is about taking risk and at the end of the day it's the best calculated risk that the gm gets paid to take. all won't turn to gold, but you sure better hit the target more times than not and morey is good at this. in morey I trust doesn't mean I won't be watching and disecting each move it means I trust the process you use to calculate the risk factor. I like morey as the rockets driver and it looks like we just turned out of the traffic jam and onto some clear road ahead :rolleyes: sorry to get off topic, but had to throw that in.


    I'm saying Morey needs to take a hit here. The Harden deal had little to do with Morey and in fact OKC got better offers and many were stumped as to why they made the deal with us.
    Under Morey we have regressed in regards to coaching as well. I think he doesn't want a dynamic HC who has proven to be a winner, if so then he ultimately doesn't have more control.
    Hopefully we will get lucky and get another franchise player but we'd be a lot further if we had played our younger guys taken a chance at lottery picks in the draft than his way.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    DaDakota, on 08 January 2013 - 04:47 AM said:


    Nothing wrong with rolling the dice on White, but they came up snake eyes.

    Most 16th picks are out of the league in a year or two anyway.

    DD


    OK then why is anyone upset then or why even keep that pick and instead just trade them away since most are out in a year or two? Shouldn't Morey know this as well and not value that pick and give it away for a player who at least is average?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    miketheodio, on 07 January 2013 - 18:52 PM said:


    i dont think you understand exactly how morey makes his decisions. it's similar to the way a trader buys and sells stocks. all of the moves he made, made it possible for the rockets to acquire a franchise players like harden.


    I do understand how he makes his decisions and his record indicates that and it's nothing like day trading. Day trading you are looking for minimal gain of a large amount of shares purchased. In the NBA, you need multiple franchise players which isn't going to work under his method. I love Harden and in fact watching last years playoffs while they played SA I would think I'd love to have this guy on our team but Morey's method is great if your objective isn't to win championships. In fact I'd argue which has bared out to be true that his method ensures you to be average at best. Look even at this year, we are doing well but mainly because he have played a lot of home games. We have to also HOPE that a number of teams in the West have off years (Lakers is helping that out). See the pattern here? His method is built on hoping the failure on other teams and/or the chance of a Harden type player which honestly rarely ever happens. You can't run a team like that. Even so getting to a championship at best would be once and not building on something like SA has.

    Only two ways you are going to do so in terms of having a solid NBA "we have a legit shot year after year to reach finals":

    1. Tank / have awful year and lucky to land a franchise type player (Durant / LBJ)
    2. Franchise players want to play for your team which is a team that generally has a very long history (Celtics / Lakers / Bulls )

    Of course you could say well it's luck in the draft, sure but if the player you draft top three isn't good your team still isn't good and you'll get another shot (see Clippers)
    Harden was a great find but that was more on OKC than us, in fact, they had better offers or could have waited. I'm certainly glad but say we had tanked or threw away a season? That way we could have now had two legit franchise players.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago Nice first post, Rockets247, and welcome to the board. I'm afraid I have to disagree with your analysis though.

    You've listed all the players picked 16th or later who are still in the league, and it is true that there are quite a few. But there are many, many more who didn't make it. Take, for example, the 2009 draft - you list 10 players who are good NBA contributors chosen 16th or later, but that's out of a total pool of 45 draft picks. So in reality, only 22% of the players available to the team with the 16th pick actually panned out, which can't really be considered to be 'most' by any reasonable definition.

    Now, you could make a case that the actual pool of realistic choices available to the team making the 16th pick is actually a lot smaller. After all, what we are modelling here is the chance that selecting randomly from their available choices, a team will pick a good player. Let's say for the sake of argument that they were only considering all players taken in the first rounds of their respective drafts. You listed 47 good NBA players taken with picks between 16 and 30 over 8 drafts. So that's a 47 out of 120 or 39% chance of being a successful player. Better than the previous number, but still not particularly great - the remaining 61% certainly fits the bill of 'most', IMO.

    ST
  • Rockets247 says 1 YEAR ago

    DaDakota, on 08 January 2013 - 04:47 AM said:


    Nothing wrong with rolling the dice on White, but they came up snake eyes.

    Most 16th picks are out of the league in a year or two anyway.

    DD


    Except not true.
    2011: Nikola Vucevic
    Taken after 16: Iman Shumpert (17), Kenneth Faried (22), Norris Cole (28), Chandler Parsons (38)

    2010: Luke Babbit
    Taken after 16: Kevin Seraphin (17), Eric Bledsoe (18), Avery Bradley (19), Greivis Vasquez (28), Landry Fields (39)

    2009: James Johnson
    Taken after 16: Jrue Holiday (17), Ty Lawson (18), Jeff Teague (19), Eric Maynor (20), Darren Collinson (21), Omri Caspi (23), Taj Gibson (26), Toney Douglas (29), Danny Green (46)

    2008: Marreese Speights
    Taken after 16: Roy Hibbert (17), JaVale McGee (18), J.J. Hickson (19), Ryan Anderson (21), Courtney Lee (22), Kosta Koufos (23), Serge Ibaka (24), Nicolas Batum (25, to Houston, wish we had that back), George Hill (26), + 4 more current starters taken in the second round.

    2007: Nick Young
    Taken after 16: Marco Belinelli (18), Jared Dudley (22), Rudy Fernandez (24), Aaron Brooks (26), Arron Afflalo (27), Tiago Splitter (28), Carl Landry (31), Glen Davis (35), Marc Gasol (48)

    2006: Rodney Carney
    Taken after 16: Rajon Rondo (21), Kyle Lowry (24), Shannon Brown (25), Steve Novak (32), Paul Millsap (47)

    2005: Joey Graham
    Taken after 16: Danny Granger (17), Hakim Warrick (19), Nate Robinson (21), Jarrett Jack (22), Jason Maxiel (26), David Lee (30), Brandon Bass (33), Monta Ellis (40), Marcin Gortat (57)

    2004: Kirk Snyder
    Taken after 16: Josh Smith (17), J.R. Smith (18), Tony Allen (25), Kevin Martin (26), Anderson Varejao (31),

    So the statement "most 16th picks are out of the league in a year or two" is patently false. That being said, there are plenty of busts that I didn't list, but plenty of successful NBA players as well. You hate to see the White pick not work out because he has such potential, but basketball (and even having a paying job) seems to be somewhere around 37 on his top 100 list of priorities.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago I second that DaDakota. people are acting like we cut kobe or something. white isn't the first player to fall through the cracks and for sure won't be the last. draft picks are gambles. you win some you loose some, it the nature of the beast. you can't stop taking risk because 1 of them didn't work out.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Nothing wrong with rolling the dice on White, but they came up snake eyes.

    Most 16th picks are out of the league in a year or two anyway.

    DD
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Amazing how polarizing this topic is. I like that Morey took the calculated risk. It doesn't look like it will pay off in any way. Meh. I'd rather focus on the 5 PF's we have that show up to work. That and using our collective will power to turn james anderson into a J.R. Smith-type assassin!

    You don't get put on these for nothing...
  • Ostrow says 1 YEAR ago The thing about White playing for two colleges isn't really a mental issue. He was essentially kicked out of Minnesota. He got caught stealing. And a lot of people play for multiple high schools. I think Durant played for 3 so I don't think that is anything either.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago Kade:
    the rockets b4 this year were looking for a star. as the princess would say (sometimes you got to kiss a lot of frogs b4 you find the prince). so I for 1 don't have a problem with moving players trying to get better players. morey has not been perfect, but (IMO) has played the hand he's been dealt pretty well. last year when he broke up the team I questioned it for awhile , but looking back now I can see morey was not trying to find good players he was after a star. kudos to him for staying focused despite people like you calling for his head. their is no doubt morey has stepped in the dodo a couple of times, but being a gm is about taking risk and at the end of the day it's the best calculated risk that the gm gets paid to take. all won't turn to gold, but you sure better hit the target more times than not and morey is good at this. in morey I trust doesn't mean I won't be watching and disecting each move it means I trust the process you use to calculate the risk factor. I like morey as the rockets driver and it looks like we just turned out of the traffic jam and onto some clear road ahead :rolleyes: sorry to get off topic, but had to throw that in.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago

    rocketrick, on 07 January 2013 - 19:03 PM said:


    One of these days Rudy Gay will stop coming up in these conversations when Morey is brought up. That was a different time for the Rockets with Yao and McGrady and Battier at that time made a lot of sense. Hindsight is always 20-20 and of course everyone knows the Yao/McGrady franchise didn't pan out. In my opinion, the Rockets are currently in a much better place with their Roster sans Rudy Gay.

    Plus there were a number of NBA experts that had Royce White going higher than the 16th pick even knowing his unique situation and excessive baggage.

    Even if Morey won GM of the year at the end of this season, he will always have his detractors here in Houston..


    look at the situation with gay now. some people think he's reached his peak at a boarder line all star who isnt worth his contract.
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 07 January 2013 - 18:44 PM said:


    I don't consider a GM who ends up year after year having the best worst team as doing a good job. For every Harden there's 5 times as many picks and trades he's made that wasn't a good job. I LOVED Rudy Gay and was happy when we drafted him. Morey loves to trade or drop players too quickly.

    Are players a risk when you draft them? Sure but when you have a player with Royce talent who falls to 16th pick alarm bells should ring off. Either he's got serious problems mentally or has major injury that won't get better.

    Put it to you this way, if Royce hadn't showed a pattern of bailing/not playing in HS, College and especially blowing off Kentucky cause he didn't want to fly for a face to face meeting and it's all over the news he doesn't want to fly (regardless if he's got a mental problem or not) you don't draft him at 16th. Second round? Sure but why throw away a pick knowing that your chances of him playing is 10% at best?


    One of these days Rudy Gay will stop coming up in these conversations when Morey is brought up. That was a different time for the Rockets with Yao and McGrady and Battier at that time made a lot of sense. Hindsight is always 20-20 and of course everyone knows the Yao/McGrady franchise didn't pan out. In my opinion, the Rockets are currently in a much better place with their Roster sans Rudy Gay.

    Plus there were a number of NBA experts that had Royce White going higher than the 16th pick even knowing his unique situation and excessive baggage.

    Even if Morey won GM of the year at the end of this season, he will always have his detractors here in Houston..
  • Rahat Huq says 1 YEAR ago http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1206495/3/index.htm
  • Rahat Huq says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 07 January 2013 - 18:44 PM said:


    I don't consider a GM who ends up year after year having the best worst team as doing a good job. For every Harden there's 5 times as many picks and trades he's made that wasn't a good job. I LOVED Rudy Gay and was happy when we drafted him. Morey loves to trade or drop players too quickly. From Lin to Dragic to Lowry. I understand that you have to deal players but we've let go more talent than we've acquired under Morey. KM is also not the answer for HC. He never or rarely plays rookies yet we have a GM who is bent on acquiring rookies. Seems opposite philosophy.

    Are players a risk when you draft them? Sure but when you have a player with Royce talent who falls to 16th pick alarm bells should ring off. Either he's got serious problems mentally or has major injury that won't get better.

    Put it to you this way, if Royce hadn't showed a pattern of bailing/not playing in HS, College and especially blowing off Kentucky cause he didn't want to fly for a face to face meeting and it's all over the news he doesn't want to fly (regardless if he's got a mental problem or not) you don't draft him at 16th. Second round? Sure but why throw away a pick knowing that your chances of him playing is 10% at best?


    Quote:

    Morey could have added a piece and made another run at the playoffs. Instead he went to Alexander and told him they needed to take on even more risk.
    One of the 400 richest men in the country, Alexander has spent his life evaluating risk. When I visited him in his office, he shuffled poker chips one-handed as we talked, and he plays regularly in a game with Carl Icahn and one of the top Goldman guys. He told Morey to do whatever it took.

    So Morey used the second of his three first-round choices, the 16th pick, to draft the riskiest player available, Iowa State\'s Royce White. A 6\'8", 260-pound power forward with the passing skills of a point guard, White suffers from an anxiety disorder that makes him afraid to fly. Many questioned the selection, but Morey and Hinkie saw it not as a matter of emotion or reason but of probability. They needed an elite player, and in their estimation White was one of the five top talents in the draft.


    From the SI piece on Morey, which I consider required reading.

    While they've been burnt pretty badly, I think it's a risk they can live with. They had to do something gutsy at that time.
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 07 January 2013 - 17:15 PM said:


    No one needs to take a hit.

    In the big picture this is a small percentage of the Rockets organization and it's ongoing activity. Sure he was a number 16 pick but that's a gamble anyway and hindsight analysis with regards to the NBA draft is always infinitely more easy than scouting before the draft. White was actually McHale's pick and I believe it is pretty well documented.

    By the way, I am pretty sure Morey does his homework and then some.



























    feelingsupersonic, on 07 January 2013 - 17:15 PM said:


    No one needs to take a hit.

    In the big picture this is a small percentage of the Rockets organization and it's ongoing activity. Sure he was a number 16 pick but that's a gamble anyway and hindsight analysis with regards to the NBA draft is always infinitely more easy than scouting before the draft. White was actually McHale's pick and I believe it is pretty well documented.

    By the way, I am pretty sure Morey does his homework and then some.


    I absolutely concur with FSS on this topic. If I recall correctly, didn't Royce White end last season at Iowa State quite strongly including during March Madness? That alone to me is a reason to take a chance on a Royce White. Especially since the Rockets had 3 first round picks, all before the 20th.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago

    Kade, on 07 January 2013 - 18:44 PM said:


    I don't consider a GM who ends up year after year having the best worst team as doing a good job. For every Harden there's 5 times as many picks and trades he's made that wasn't a good job. I LOVED Rudy Gay and was happy when we drafted him. Morey loves to trade or drop players too quickly. From Lin to Dragic to Lowry. I understand that you have to deal players but we've let go more talent than we've acquired under Morey. KM is also not the answer for HC. He never or rarely plays rookies yet we have a GM who is bent on acquiring rookies. Seems opposite philosophy.

    Are players a risk when you draft them? Sure but when you have a player with Royce talent who falls to 16th pick alarm bells should ring off. Either he's got serious problems mentally or has major injury that won't get better.

    Put it to you this way, if Royce hadn't showed a pattern of bailing/not playing in HS, College and especially blowing off Kentucky cause he didn't want to fly for a face to face meeting and it's all over the news he doesn't want to fly (regardless if he's got a mental problem or not) you don't draft him at 16th. Second round? Sure but why throw away a pick knowing that your chances of him playing is 10% at best?


    i dont think you understand exactly how morey makes his decisions. it's similar to the way a trader buys and sells stocks. all of the moves he made, made it possible for the rockets to acquire a franchise players like harden.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    rockets best fan, on 07 January 2013 - 18:02 PM said:


    totally agree feelingsupersonic. morey does not to take a hit over white. all.......... let me repeat that ALL draft pick are a gamble since they are players who have never played in the league b4. I don't see anyone complaining about the other draft picks morey selected. I don't see anyone complaining about the asik and lin signing. point being.......morey is doing a fine job. sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. its the nature of being a GM. more times than not morey is on the money and (IMO) that's all you can really ask for. now back to the white situation......white seems more interested in sueing the rockets and the nba for not having what he considers proper guidelines to handle his condition than playing basketball. I am glad the rockets have decided to stop cuddling this knucklehead and cut ties with him. even if white decided to get his act together at this point they should still cut him. after this fallout he can never be trusted. better to find out who he is now than have him become a part of the team and then go into this act. this sitiuation will be settled in court. while white has been trying to build his case, so are the rockets. a lot of eyes are on this situation ie... players union, stern and league office, players agents just to name a few because the fallout may affect the cba. as far as I can see looks like the rockets have covered their bases pretty well. white is going to need a hell of a lawyer to come away with this one


    I don't consider a GM who ends up year after year having the best worst team as doing a good job. For every Harden there's 5 times as many picks and trades he's made that wasn't a good job. I LOVED Rudy Gay and was happy when we drafted him. Morey loves to trade or drop players too quickly. From Lin to Dragic to Lowry. I understand that you have to deal players but we've let go more talent than we've acquired under Morey. KM is also not the answer for HC. He never or rarely plays rookies yet we have a GM who is bent on acquiring rookies. Seems opposite philosophy.

    Are players a risk when you draft them? Sure but when you have a player with Royce talent who falls to 16th pick alarm bells should ring off. Either he's got serious problems mentally or has major injury that won't get better.

    Put it to you this way, if Royce hadn't showed a pattern of bailing/not playing in HS, College and especially blowing off Kentucky cause he didn't want to fly for a face to face meeting and it's all over the news he doesn't want to fly (regardless if he's got a mental problem or not) you don't draft him at 16th. Second round? Sure but why throw away a pick knowing that your chances of him playing is 10% at best?
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago

    feelingsupersonic, on 07 January 2013 - 17:15 PM said:


    No one needs to take a hit.

    In the big picture this is a small percentage of the Rockets organization and it's ongoing activity. Sure he was a number 16 pick but that's a gamble anyway and hindsight analysis with regards to the NBA draft is always infinitely more easy than scouting before the draft. White was actually McHale's pick and I believe it is pretty well documented.

    By the way, I am pretty sure Morey does his homework and then some.


    Well if they did they would have known that given his talent he's not going to fall to 16th pick. Why? Oh there's a huge pattern since HS. This isn't a potential drug issue where you feel like you take a chance.
    Royce is and should be blamed here but when you see a pattern you can't get too upset if you take a chance and then that pattern continues, right?
    Should have traded that pick or get Sullinger or PJ3 at least there's a body to either trade or work with that both had upside.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago totally agree feelingsupersonic. morey does not to take a hit over white. all.......... let me repeat that ALL draft pick are a gamble since they are players who have never played in the league b4. I don't see anyone complaining about the other draft picks morey selected. I don't see anyone complaining about the asik and lin signing. point being.......morey is doing a fine job. sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. its the nature of being a GM. more times than not morey is on the money and (IMO) that's all you can really ask for. now back to the white situation......white seems more interested in sueing the rockets and the nba for not having what he considers proper guidelines to handle his condition than playing basketball. I am glad the rockets have decided to stop cuddling this knucklehead and cut ties with him. even if white decided to get his act together at this point they should still cut him. after this fallout he can never be trusted. better to find out who he is now than have him become a part of the team and then go into this act. this sitiuation will be settled in court. while white has been trying to build his case, so are the rockets. a lot of eyes are on this situation ie... players union, stern and league office, players agents just to name a few because the fallout may affect the cba. as far as I can see looks like the rockets have covered their bases pretty well. white is going to need a hell of a lawyer to come away with this one
  • feelingsupersonic says 1 YEAR ago No one needs to take a hit.

    In the big picture this is a small percentage of the Rockets organization and it's ongoing activity. Sure he was a number 16 pick but that's a gamble anyway and hindsight analysis with regards to the NBA draft is always infinitely more easy than scouting before the draft. White was actually McHale's pick and I believe it is pretty well documented.

    By the way, I am pretty sure Morey does his homework and then some.
  • Kade says 1 YEAR ago Morey needs to take a big hit on this and getting fired wouldn't be out of the question. If he did his homework he would have known

    1. Didn't play for one high school
    2. Didn't play for one college
    3. After bailing on his high school team he did the same thing in college at Min. He was going to play for Calipari at Kentucky but freaked out before getting on a plane so he declined.

    This guy was trouble as far back as high school, a guy who bailed on multiple teams and it was documented that he bailed on going to Kentucky because he had to fly to meet Calipari.

    The blame does ultimately fall on Royce, I think he's a phony and simply wants to get paid and not play ball but Morey and/or whoever led the charge to draft this guy needs to also be accountable big time. There's a reason why he was drafted at the 16th spot and to that point except Morey other GMs said no way to throwing away a pick.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Royce White is a con man - plain and simple.

    The guy has been coddled his whole life and is out of his bubble and can't understand why the real world is holding him accountable, as he has never had that happen to him.

    He will sue, lose, and be broke - and no one else to blame.

    Welcome to the world of hard knocks Royce.
  • miketheodio says 1 YEAR ago What I don't get is every day people also have to live with what he lives with. They have less resources for medical help, yet the manage and go to work. They have to take care of their kids, pay the bills, etc. If they can find a way, white should be able to as well. I have mental illness. I still had to show up to classes and work.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago I like these quotes from ESPN:

    "There\'s literally millions of people who have anxiety and would love to have the circumstances he has. Giant contract, free therapy, special commendations just for you, he\'s being given all the tools to succeed he just doesn\'t feel like it."

    "Royce: PLEASE get off Twitter and fight your "cause" by showing up and playing in the DLeague instead of making excuse after excuse. Even your biggest supporters from your days at Iowa State are getting sick of of your show right now and you\'d do a lot more good by fighting your anxiety head on and dealing with it while it happens if you were playing versus hiding from it behind a Twitter account using it as your crutch not to play basketball right now. Your anxiety is winning the battle you are trying to fight until you get some marbles and fight it head on. That\'s all the Rockets are asking you to do is to make an effort to play, they can\'t deal with your anxiety if you don\'t want to be part of the team."

    "I have a hard time believing White is really trying. He has bashed his program every chance he has gotten. The Rockets don\'t owe him anything, what measures they take to accommodate him is a gift not mandatory. If he were an introvert and wasn\'t constantly taking to social media to blast the program that he feels is supposed to be helping him i wouldn\'t have issue. Internal problems are internal problems and should be worked out accordingly."
  • Bigtkirk says 1 YEAR ago I agree that the Rockets were building their case for the inevitable arbitration over the settlement of White's contract.

    But I don't see how the contract can be voided. The Rockets entered into it knowing about White's anxiety disorder, so the club took the risk that the disorder -- just as with a chronic physical injury or illness -- might prevent White from playing.

    Sure, there may be a dispute between the experts on whether White's anxiety disorder is truly bad enough to prevent him from fulfilling his obligations under the contract, but White and the Players' Association will have plenty of experts ready to testify that the disorder is disabling and that there is an inadequate protocol in the NBA for dealing with such issues.

    Bottom line, at the end of the day, the Rockets need to go ahead and settle up with White and move on. The club took a big risk, it didn't pan out and that's the way things go sometimes. I just hope that the club keeps taking big risks on players such as Asik and Lin -- those appear to be working out well.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago I think the Rockets needed to build a case before doing this, and were just going along gathering information to support their stance.

    My guess is that they will void his contract, and if Royce wants to play in the NBA it will be only with the Rockets.

    DD
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago The Rockets have now suspended Royce. via USAToday

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/rockets/2013/01/06/houston-rockets-suspend-rookie-forward-royce-white/1811983/
  • blakecouey says 1 YEAR ago I was a big supporter of RW when we drafted him, and through SL. At this point I have to agree with most of you and say it's time to just cut ties with him. I do believe he could become a quality starter, but I don't see that happening without serious changes to his mentality and goals. I may be wrong, but I think he would have a better chance advocating mental health and spreading the word if he were actually playing in the league instead of whining from Twitter like anyone can do.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago right now.............. I would take an ice cold coke and a smile for royce :lol: the kid is a cancer. I agree DaDakota white is not better than any of the 4 players he is competing against at the 4 position. even in summer league his stats lagged behind the others. white has backed himself into a corner with very little wiggle room. better to throw away 1 bad apple rather than let it spoil the rest. if the rockets were to cave in to white what kind of precedence would it set with the remainder of the team? this is why I don't forsee a good outcome for white in this situation. he will probably never play for the rockets because he has not learned you can't bite the hand that feeds you. make no mistake about it other nba teams front offices are watching this situation very closely also because it sets a precedence for the league. the longer this drags on the less likely royce will ever play in the league because all front offices will be more than familar with him and his entitlement attitude.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Yeah, I'd take Pittman and a 2nd rounder....I watched Pittman at Texas....he worked hard and has decent hands and touch....his weight has always been the issue.....if he gets in shape he will be a quality back-up.

    Totally agree that i do not want white with the rockets...I wish him success elsewhere....just be elsewhere....
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago There is just no resolution to where you can trust this guy in any way, he signed a contract, he refused to report to training camp - after signing a contract, then refused to come to practice because he was not getting his way, then refused to see the team doctor - which is part of the contract he signed, then refused to go to the D-league.

    The guy is a self entitled whiny little man - he is just not trustworthy, and has never been - it is just that folks earlier needed him to play basketball so they bowed down to his every whim, ignored him stealing laptops, and from his place of employement, allowed him to skip practices, and drive to a game or two - they just let him run things.

    That does not work in the NBA, can you imagine the precedent it would set? Sorry, the sooner this loser is chucked off of our roster, the better, he is not that good to begin with, and I think that is part of the problem, there are 4 players at his spot on this team better than him.

    1. PPat
    2. MMorris
    3. Dmo
    4. Tjones

    All better players than RWhite - which may be contributing to him trying to get out of his contract - he is not stupid, just manipulative.

    DD
  • Cooper says 1 YEAR ago Pitman is a stiff but I'd still do that trade if we could get Cole or Harris from the heat that'd be fantastic even a 2nd round pick would be great at this point.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago I wouldn't mind trading Royce to Miami where he could learn from Lebron--a player whose game resembles his most. Miami may like the idea since, if it works, they can have two lebrons!!! He gets a fresh start. We can move on and maybe snag Dexter Pittman and a shooting guard for the D-league. Pittman can still be effective in this league....needs to keep his weight down, but his size is a huge asset at 6'11" and 280 lbs (probably more)....We don't need anymore offensive weapons anyways....we need some defense!
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago @DrewinAbilene, I really hope that would happen as well, as unlikely as that may seem at the moment. :(
  • Drew in Abilene says 1 YEAR ago From recent quotes, I like that he realizes that things likely wouldn't be better with another team, and that making things work with the Rockets is his best shot. I think Houston has done a good job of dealing with the situation, as far as I've been able to see. I hope that this young man learns and matures, develops through practice, D-League games, and occasional NBA minutes once he has earned them. I trust Morey and the front office and McHale and the coaches to identify ways White can improve and maximize his effectiveness. Here's to hoping Royce will listen well and become something more than a sideshow.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Look, even if he came and did something in the NBA for the Rockets they will NEVER be able to trust him, the sooner they can get rid of him the better, IMO.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago @Alituro:

    I agree that over the past few decades there has been an increase in changing the environment to the individual. Whether that is a good thing or not really is hard to say, and smells like a line drawing problem (aren't most things? lol). But the over-medication of children today would actually suggest there is also the countervailing push to change the individual to conform to the environment, albeit in a "shortcut" sort of way. Probably over-prescribed as the easy way out when other methods could be effective, which sadly muddles the issue for those that actually need medication to help themselves adjust and better their health. My personal pet peeve has been the number of high school and college students today who feel the need to illegally acquire and take Adderall to pass exams haha.

    I do hope White is a bit more willing to compromise, goes to RGV, and puts in his minutes. I'd like to see how he develops, though as of now, it seems he may never even play an NBA minute in his possibly short-lived career.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Royce White is busy making protocal lists - and hoping that the Rockets will eventually cave into his OCD demands like every other high school, AAU and college coach did.

    Too bad this is the pros....

    DD
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago HAHAHAHA!!! Pure Genius.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago "What the heck is Royce White doing right now"?

    Working on a nickname! Call me "Rolls" Royce White?....cuz whether I'm on or off the court....I prefer to drive.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Some absolutely incredible points made here!

    The fast pass analogy was epic.

    DMO tore it up in the DL and id love to see Royce dominate down there. After listening to the interview on Sirius this morning I do believe he maybe starting to understand what trouble he has really caused. Do I think he's ready to own up and start his career? No. Royce will be Royce for the rest of his life.

    He is just as detrimental to a team as Demarcus is to the Kings. Almost Cancerous. The kid wants to play without work. Last time I checked, he is no Lebron. If he hits the DL and ravages, then I have no qualms. Do I think he is still a cancer, yes. That's why I don't think Demarcus is any better. Although I do see ZBO growing up just fine and turning into a man before our eyes in the later part of his career I think Royce's issue will be much like Chris Jackson's (not saying the national anthem or whatever it maybe) and how much of an ongoing uproar that was back in the 90s. A constant struggle within the team's locker room.

    Imagine if he did turn out to be worth a darn! Think of that absolute mess! They say winning solves everything, in this case, his ego maybe a little tougher than winning. Whether he is amazing and the entitlement blows up or he falls into mediocrity and his ego is shattered, it doesn't matter. (See Ron Artest's post game interview after winning the title with the Lakers)

    My sole intent with this thread was to see what the heck this guy was doing right now.

    Like some of you had mentioned, it no longer matters what is wrong with the kid, it's whether or not he is willing to accept responsibility and do his job. And in the mean time...

    What the heck is Royce White doing right now?

    Cheetos? Jerry Springer? Strangers with Candy?
  • Alituro says 1 YEAR ago @phaketrash.. You're right and no offense. I probably shouldn't have used an autism reference in retrospect. Knowing it is a much more serious issue than say issues of ADD, ADHD, OCD, etc... and not really related to what White is experiencing.

    I guess what frustrates me is that over the past couple decades, efforts are made more to shape the environment to conform to someone's mental issues which may or may not be real, rather than teaching these people how to conform to the environments and situations around them. This seems to have fostered a sense of entitlement in White. He seems to think that because of his assumed disability, and for no other reason, that he deserves playing time more than say, D-Mo or Jones. Both of whom have been paying their dues in the valley, in practice, and ridin' the pine for entire games on end. He's trying to jump line like he has a Fast Pass at Disney World, while others are waiting and waiting. Rather than trying to overcome his fears, he's using his disability like a card carrying member of some exclusive club. That sickens me. His problems should only be his burden and not everyone else's, that's just being a man.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago Truehoop has posted selected portions of a radio interview that Royce White did. Interesting stuff, and sounds slightly saner than past soundbites from him have done. Haven't heard the whole interview though, so I can't comment about whether that's just a result of the transcription process.

    ST
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago I tried to stay away from this thread , but you all are forcing me :D phaketrash I read that same artical and I do believe the rockets might get a pick which is why they are willing to let this play out. either way it won't hurt to ask. I don't think this will be and issue for the nba in the future because this will probably be the last time a team takes a chance like this. what royce has really done is made it unlikely any players with his condition will ever get drafted again. there is a precedence being set here, but it ain't all the rockets. royce has single handedly mess it up for future consideration on other players with this issue. if anybody knows the nba cba it's morey and I believe this is why the rockets have taken the wait and see stand. at this point even if it doesn't work out it won't affect the rockets this year. either way royce wasn't likely to crack the rotation this year even if he had been in camp. what may really be giving royce issues is fighting for playing time. maybe he thinks he will have a hard time beating the other PF's out which is why he seems to want a commitment from the rockest about playing time. I think the rockets have held their end up it's up to white to get his $hit together.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Agree he is full of crap and using his illness as leverage, when he may or may not even be ill.

    As for compensatory picks? I doubt it if the Celtics did not get one for Lin Bias.

    DD
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago @Areteejay, I read that same article and I don't think Stern will do that. Not saying he doesn't have the right to, but it just seems SUPER unlikely. It sets a horrible precedent and all other teams will complain. How would it then be different than say a team that drafts a person who ends up having bad knees and never plays? I think the exception was created/used only once in the past (Celts? I can't remember) where it involved a player death.

    As far as the ADA (government law) with mental health, I looked into this a bit more and White probably wouldn't have a case. Rockets have made plenty of reasonable accommodations, and anything he seem to be asking for now is above and beyond that. It is rarely applied to mental health in sports, and not flying or getting starter minutes in the NBA because of his mental illness is almost certainly not required by the law.

    @rocketrick: I think that is right -- how bad does White want to play in the NBA? So far it seems...not that badly. Maybe he just wanted to be paid his guaranteed money. I still don't get why he won't go to RGV (well I can imagine a reason, just not a mental health one) since it involves almost no flying, playing time, and consistency. I just can't see his mental health argument for NOT going to RGV, I guess.
  • areteejay789 says 1 YEAR ago I dont think royce will get cut. Larry Coon tweeted some article about mental health issues in sports, and the law surrounding it (government law not NBA law) and basically if it all goes tits up, David stern has the right to award houston a compensation pick in the next draft - either the same pick at 16 or a pick between the first and second round. If houston cuts him, i dont think they will be eligible for that pick, we have to let royce decide hes not gonna play any more.

    Also, as Rahat said its a good thing hes with the warriors. Can you imagine if he had been on the wizards a few years ago? Arenas and Javaris Crittenton would probably threaten to shoot him if he didnt play...
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago We can assume, suggest, concur, disagree, etc. all we want on this board. It simply comes down to whether or not Royce White wants to play basketball. He has an opportunity presented to go to RGV and prove to this organization he truly wants to become an NBA player. Or he can continue to thumb his nose at the Rockets. The onus is on Royce White.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago @Alituro; no offense, but I'm going to assume you weren't a psychology major and are not a mental health professional, because a few things you said are just inaccurate. For example, autism and falling somewhere on the soon-to-be released DSM-V autistic spectrum isn't really anything different. It's a new way of classifying something that has always been recognized. High-functioning autism would be Asperger's, for instance. It is not a product of learned behaviors...If you've spent any time around children with autism (anywhere on the range), you'd see that it really is a spectrum, and this new classification really captures it more accurately rather than relying on older, more confusing nomenclature.

    However, I don't disagree with your general sentiment that many children today are over-diagnosed, and I do think that belief is shared by a large subset of the population (whether most follow through with anything that would help alleviate this issue is a whole 'nother consideration). In fact, I agree with you on that point. I think there are certain mental disabilities (esp. ADD/ADHD) that are over-diagnosed and definitely over-prescribed, contributing to a new problem our kids are facing today ---- abuse of prescription drugs. But again, whole 'nother can of worms I won't get into on a Royce White thread on red94.net hahaha.

    The only bit that sort of frustrates me is your (and probably the public's) inability to sometimes differentiate between mental disorders. The issue of over-diagnosis is partly to blame for that; the other part is just the nature of mental illnesses and how deceptive they can be (as opposed to say having a terminal illness or a physical handicap). Are there times when psychologists looking for a quick buck and easy solution over diagnosis? Definitely! Are there still people who actually suffer from those and other mental disorders? Absolutely. I'm glad your course of action worked out for your son, and he may have been misdiagnosed, but I can just as easily find parents who think the same way, work extremely hard, but just can't help turn their son's life around...resulting in a rather tragic end. I know I have seen that before. Sometimes they do need medication, along w/ other treatments.

    To bring this back to White, I think he falls in the latter category. He isn't going to be able to will away panic attacks, if we are to believe he receives them. Some anxiety issues he can sort of "suck up," but without knowing exactly how severe his problems are (or his medical history), it seems just as likely that there are some that he can't.

    TL;DR -- yes, some kids are just spoiled today and parents like to shirk responsibility, so mental disorders are incorrectly claimed as the culprits, leading to a worse public perception of mental illness in general...but some people do actually need medication or CBT or whatnot to resolve their problems. Hard to say which group White falls into.
  • Alituro says 1 YEAR ago It's just a sign of the times. When I was growing up and a kid acted out or threw a tantrum, he was called a brat and the parents were kindly (or not so kindly) asked to control their kid or remove him. Today, nobody can blame the parents or the kids for such behavior because at some point some psychologist put a name to this behavior like "ADD" or "ADHD" and now the same kid is a victim of something or other and thus relinquishing all accountability from him or the parents. Today people are expected to be tolerant of the "victim's" behavior and mold their work and home environments to conform to these quirks. I suffer from claustrophobia (true), but sometimes my work requires me to crawl under buildings and through tight crawl spaces (which truly freaks me out). Should I require my clients or employer to knock out walls or jack up the buildings to accommodate my fears? No, I simply suck it up and do what I have to to provide for my family and maintain my lifestyle. I'm not saying mental illness doesn't exist, but there is a huge difference between someone who is Autistic and someone who falls into the newly dubbed "autistic spectrum", the former having an actual physiological disability that needs constant attention and the latter usually a product of learned behaviors.

    On request from a 1st grade teacher, my son saw a shrink and was diagnosed and medicated for ADHD and ODD (Obsessive defiant disorder) after ONLY 10 MINUTES of observation. I couldn't stand what the medication (Strattera and later Adderol, I think) did to him and his personality so after that year we took him off of it, made some adjustments in our disciplinary actions, and worked to challenge him more intellectually. Today, now in 11th grade, he's in the top 5% of his class and has never had any disciplinary problems since, NEVER. We could have just as easily over the past 10 years treated him as a victim and coddled and medicated him and take no accountability nor expect any from him. And he could have just as easily gone through his whole life with this excuse in his pocket whenever he failed to live up to someone's expectations, or acted out. This is where White is today. What happened to the days of "Hey, you big pussy, man up and suck it up, or get out of the way!"?

    I don't know what is sadder, White's problems or the attentions they have garnered him over the years. So, did the Rockets draft the poster boy for mental illnesses, or a basketball player? They are a basketball team, so I hope they drafted a player. Everybody on this planet has quirks and many of them you can put a name too also, but what separates the mice from the men is the ability to overcome these and lead a productive life. One's quirks should never become the burden of others.

    Do we remember Bill Walton as the big stutterer? Chris Jackson (Abdul-Rauf) as the "turrets guy"? Wilt or Magic the Sex-Addicts? No. Royce White, how will you be remembered?
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago A solution could be forthcoming if only White would just take advantage of the RGV opportunity and kill it down there. Otherwise, White is only going to make the final decision from the Rockets much easier.
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago Haha I wonder if he really is trying to sell "my anxiety can only be cured/accommodated by playing minutes on the Rockets roster" because that'd be rather silly. But I read the McCann article and it seems that this may plausible.

    I assume you were being intentionally glib with the remark about shortness or a lack of hops since mental illness is pretty different from being a few inches shorter or less athletic lol.

    But personally, I don't think Rockets have much to lose riding this out with White. Hopefully he'll eventually realize he doesn't have many other options (outside of quitting the NBA altogether) and cooperates more.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Well maybe Royce convinces the doctors that he needs 24 minutes a game, and that is the best way to avoid his anxiety, yet the Rockets think he has earned ZERO minutes a game because he is just not good enough.

    So, Royce thinks the Rockets should accomodate him, and there is no accomodation for suckage.

    The NBA does not have accomodations for shortness, or for people who can't jump....

    Royce is just milking this thing, and everyone to this point has needed his talent - and bowed down to him, the Rockets do not.

    DD
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago DD, I agree that I think he could probably put forth more effort, and from some things I've seen and read and heard, it sounds like he expects the Rockets to cater to him (before he capitulates in any fashion). And regardless, the way he's taken it to the public sphere is inappropriate.

    But again, I'm still curious as to why most of this is due to entitlement and not OCD/anxiety? I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. He can have the anxiety issues, they can be severe, and he can still feel entitled to be treated in a special way (deserved or not). There might be some compromise ground, or there might not be.

    As for the doctor's comment...I mean, I would hope they utilize mental health professionals, but if they are, why wouldn't they get the final say in regards to playing time? As far as it concerns his health/recommended options? Rockets certainly don't have to agree to the recommendations "per se," but that is more a business decision and something that might even relate to the ADA (probably applies in his situation). Reasonable accommodations that don't pose an undue hardship is a vague requirement when it comes to NBA players, so I can understand why the Rockets are treading carefully.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago Just trying to bring some levity to the topic.....can we rename this thread "The No-Fly Zone"? "No Plane No Gain"? "Go to the D-League! You're Grounded!"?

    Don't forget to tip your waitresses....
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago I just don't believe he is actually trying - I believe he is doing what he has always done and that is whine about stuff, and getting his way.

    The difference is that the Rockets, as a business, do not need to allow him to get his way, he is just not worth it.

    I think most of this is entitlement and not OCD/Anxiety.

    And for him to say the Doctors get the final say in regards to playing time, and all things Rockets is just immature, and well...frankly stupid.

    DD
  • bob schmidt says 1 YEAR ago It seems to me that no one person has perfect mental health. Mr. White has issues, but so does everyone else in the NBA, or elsewhere. If he cannot cope with the reality of what it takes to be a part of the NBA, he should find his calling elsewhere.

    Ultimately, maturity is possibly the biggest part of his problem. Those who seem to be advising him are enabling his behavior. As far as I am concerrned, he is an experiment that failed. That is too bad, because he might have skills that would be useful to the Rockets. We need not waste any more energy on Royce excepting to wave goodbye as he fades into obscurity...
  • tombrokeoff says 1 YEAR ago i was going to comment on this topic again, but its pretty much all negative and anti-royce, so ill just leave it at that.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Im confident that Royce is mentally unstable and that he can't handle pressure. Thinking about performing for all of those cohorts that have been talking you up your whole life, coddling you at every step now expecting you to not just be another mediocre player. He sees the rooks in the league getting PT and some getting DLeagued... and the longer he waits... the harder it will be on Royce to start. He will need a restart on another team. That way in his mind he can chalk it up as another excuse as to why he can't do something and another place he can succeed. Ugh, Ive been there. LOL

    The only way we can actually see him in a Rocket uniform is if he somehow is coaxed into "restarting" his NBA career at RGV. IMO.

    Does anyone have any information as to why Royce won't accept the RGV invite?

    What are his "expectations" for the RGV?

    Has his "My Player" rating on NBA2k exploded with all of this free time on his hands?

    Is he selling tacos out of a taco stand on bissonet???
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago A few things: first, I did not know the physicians were general practitioners and not mental health experts...if true, what are the mental health experts saying? Second, even if they are GPs, I don't think that changes my belief that their opinion still weighs more than a non-physician's, for obvious reasons. They still know more, esp. since many go through a psych rotation.

    But DD, don't get me wrong -- I think White has an entitlement issue. He has been coddled by those around him to believe he's some superstar that deserves special treatment. That being said, I don't know why that is somehow mutually exclusive with the notion that he may have a rather severe form of anxiety disorder. In fact, what are these tea leaves you have seen that point to him only having very "mild" OCD or anxiety disorders? Everything I've seen and heard have pointed to a rather troublesome mental issue. I'm skeptical that doctors and even the Rockets FO are falling for "an act." Does that mean he somehow isn't entitled or going about this the wrong way? No. I think he totally is, mental health problem or not.

    You see, I'm torn when it comes to White. Part of me sort of feels where he's coming from. Mental health in the US is too often seen as something fake, or easily changeable., or a choice. It's not that simple (and is rarely a "choice"). One can't just suck it up all the time (though ironically, the CBT training for OCD and similar anxiety disorders is essentially a de-sensitizing version of sucking it up lol), nor does one necessarily want to. Sometimes, even when it is obviously a problem, you've just had it for so long...and it's been a part of you for so many years...that it's scary to even want to change. It's your identity -- who you are. White may not want to "get better," and at the same time, "getting better" is most likely a lot harder to do than most people who don't have mental health issues would think.

    On the other hand, I don't know how severe White's anxiety is. My gut tells me it is bad, but manageable, but the way he's lived his life, he isn't inclined to want to manage it. There in is the problem. It's tough, but he should try to get help, get accommodations when necessary, but then work toward fitting into the system. It is unfair to expect society and the system to change to tailor completely to his needs. It's unrealistic, and probably unhealthy.

    But again, I don't know the specifics of his issue, so I do wonder why you think he's faking it or exaggerating it. He could be a "prima dona" and have mental health issues at the same time haha. I am also confused why the RGV assignment wouldn't be good for him, from a doctor's perspective, since it is no flying...if he's asking to play in the games without proving anything, he's definitely living in dreamland.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago The vitriol some of you are spewing here seems a bit out of line to me. Certainly White has done himself no favours with his handling of the situation, and he does not come out of the situation with much credit. But we don't know exactly what has gone on behind the scenes and we probably never will. Being able to tell exactly how much of his behaviour is down to his mental illness is not something any of us are capable of with the facts the way they are.

    It's a shame that this setback has been so visible and public. As I've said before, it would be much better for all parties concerned (including the fans) if this were to happen behind closed doors. I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether the Rockets redouble their efforts to get him to play or decide to cut their losses.

    ST
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago will some one correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought working through your problems with most disorders involved facing your fear head on at some point. seems to me the longer people within his inner circle inable white to avoid his problem without facing it the more damage that will be done. I have tried to see royce's point of view and (IMO) he doesn't have a leg to stand on. the rockets have handled this mess about as well as could be expected. the ball is clearly in royce's court.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago

    sircharles, on 02 January 2013 - 00:43 AM said:


    i think you're jumping the gun, its pretty clear that he is mentally unstable. were upset because we want to see him on the court. the truth is we have no idea what is going on behind closed doors, especially with this situation.


    I disagree, nothing he is doing shows mental instability, but rather someone that has always gotten his way, and is throwing a tantrum.

    We may not know - but each of us can read the tea leaves as we see them.

    I think this is 100% an entitlement issue and a coddled malcontent who has gotten out of everything due to his enablers catering to his whims.

    I think he is a con man that is abusing the system.

    PS. One of his tweets says he wants the doctors to have executive control on all things they recommend, and that in college ISU followed all their recommendations - so basically, he only wants to play on HIS terms.

    Time for the Rox to stay the course, and tell him when he is ready to grow up, let them know....meanwhile suspend him without pay.

    DD
  • sircharles says 1 YEAR ago i think you're jumping the gun, its pretty clear that he is mentally unstable. were upset because we want to see him on the court. the truth is we have no idea what is going on behind closed doors, especially with this situation.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago I see Royce White as a complete fraud, a guy with mild OCD and Anxiety who has had people around him all his life making excuses for his bad behavior.

    And the Mental Health is just the latest thing to hide behind, and give him an excuse.

    Everything he has done has been forgiven - and he has been coddled, and enabled his entire life.

    And now that he is being held accountable, like a spoiled brat he is throwing a tantrum - he wants it done HIS way only, and people have always done that for him, well, now, that is not happening and he is lashing out.

    I don't buy for one second the mental health anxiety angle, I think this is a spoiled brat who is throwing a fit.

    And you stick to your stance and hold him accountable - if he can't do that, then away he goes.

    Just my .02.

    I believe he is 100% fraud.

    DD
  • ObstructTheLore says 1 YEAR ago I visited family in Iowa over the holidays and one of my cousins had a friend who went to Iowa State and knew Royce and he said that he doesn't even like basketball but just plays because he's good andthat he's real big into conspiracy theories and stuff.

    So maybe he wants this to not work so he can write a book "How the NBA Set Me Up to Fail"

    I am hoping it works out though, mental illness's are rough but he could definately be handling it better.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago DaDakota: totally agree with your asessment of this guy. seems to me his only problem is a feeling of entitlement. while I don't thnk the rockets are in a position where we have to conclude this problem now the longer it festers does not bode well for white. I don't think the rockets will out right attempt to cut white, but I do believe he will be traded. there are always teams willing to gamble on players. problem is with all the acting out white is doing what will his value be?
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago phake,

    Did you know that Royce's doctor is just a general practitioner and is not a trained mental health expert?

    DD
  • phaketrash says 1 YEAR ago DD, while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I'm not sure I would necessarily agree w/ your belief that he's "faking a handicap" and "only has OCD." I suffer from a form of OCD, and I can see how it can be debilitating. While I don't have the same issues that White does (he seems to get panic attacks in rooms full of people or when flying; not even sure if what he has actually counts as OCD per se), I do understand how that aspect can come to literally dominant your life. In a sense, it is a large part of your identity that has to be addressed one way or another.

    That being said, I agree w/ all your other comments about him feeling entitled and being pampered (just watch the hocumentary lol). He's surrounded by people who think he's the second coming of LBJ, and they constantly remind him of that. I feel he almost thinks he deserves special treatment not JUST because of his anxiety issues, but because of how good he believes he is as well.

    Yet I DO think he's a rare talent; prob top 10 in most NBA drafts (anxiety issues aside), so I somewhat prefer the Rockets wait it out on him. We can afford to because we have a plethora of young talent at the position, and we're "rebuilding" anyways. Will it work out w/ White in the end? Probably not, but I don't think Rockets are risking much (more upside than downside as is, imo).

    Finally, though doctor recommendations certainly are only another set of "opinions"...I would say it carries decidedly more weight than anyone else's when it comes to health. What the doctors are exactly saying, no one in this forum knows haha. It also confuses me because he seemed to need less flying/more consistency. Um, isn't that exactly what playing for RGV gives him? Don't they bus to games and give him a bball schedule?

    Maybe that's why I too am slowly running out of patience for him. I just don't feel the effort from his part. I go to work and I definitely have to think about things/make adjustments about things that other people might not have to, but it does NOT affect my work. I don't let it. Again, I'm probably not as severe as White, but I just don't know why he's seemingly expecting to not have to sacrifice anything...not like he didn't know what playing in the NBA entailed until just a few months ago...
  • Stephen says 1 YEAR ago Pure speculation follows.

    While looking up standard NBA contracts from past CBAs a couple of things caught my eye.
    In both the 1999 and 2005 versions,there were clauses on mental illness. So the NBA has recognized mental illness can derail a career for at least a decade.
    Second a player unable to play due to mental illness is treated by the CBA as the same as a player unable to perform due to physical illness. In short,you can't just void his contract-unless the player refuses team approved treatment and refuses to visit team approved physicians.
    And finally,teams can procure their own insurance for mental illness/health(depending on how you look at it).
    Private insurance can include whatever terms the team is willing to pay for.

    Back in Oct/Nov the team started fining Royce. He went to Players Union and told him there was nothing they could do as CBA clearly stated he had to see the Rockets choice of physician or they could void his contract.
    Pure speculation here,but did the Rockets get insurance on Royce,especially after training camp fiasco? Was the Nov spat the Rockets trying to show good faith to Insurance Co,or even about getting Royce in for Insurance Company's approved physicians evaluation?
    Because if the Rockets did obtain mental health insurance on Royce it changes their approach to White.
    After so many games missed(and we're approaching the 41 game mark that the NBA's Coverage starts kicking in-private insurance might well use same benchmark) the Insurance Co starts paying large chunks of White's salary.
    Again,pure speculation on my part,but if Rockets did get insurance on Royce,they can be a lot more patient as a big chunk of his salary will be paid by Insurance Co.
  • redfaithful says 1 YEAR ago I think White causes more harm to the cause than good. Any team considering anyone with mental illness to draft will now have a good reason to avoid the risk. Too bad, if he and the people around him handled things well it could have been one of the best feel-good stories in a long time.
  • Jeby says 1 YEAR ago I'm done with White.
    In the past I've compared him with Rodman in the respect that if he gets on the court and plays well, the off-court stuff doesn't matter. The difference between those guys is that Rodman came into the league as a late pick on a good team, then worked his butt off to get a spot. The crazy stuff came later, when the Worm already had a place in the league.
    White seems to be more interested in changing the NBA/Rockets culture toward dealing with mental illness, rather than working through or overcoming his own personal anxiety disorder. If he was a star, he might have some leverage. As a rookie who refuses to show up for work, he has none.
    I wish him well in his music career.
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago D. Morey: "Look, I grew up watching the A-Team....I just figured we\'d drug him before every flight.....I mean, it worked for B.A. Barracus.....Apparently, these days it\'s not ok for a man to roofie another man."


    Harden: "Somebody say my name?"


    EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: (cuz he looks like BA Barracus....not for any roofie connnection)
  • thejohnnygold says 1 YEAR ago It is always weird to dislike someone I have never met; yet, here I am....The man seems selfish. The red flags are there. Would anyone want a person like this at their job as a co-worker? Neither do any of the Rockets. Go home Royce. Someone else wants to earn your spot and their peers' respect.
  • kjunfood says 1 YEAR ago ...
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Ill tell you this much, once White is picked up by another team and say he doesn't do well; the man is in for a long, LONG 60 years of life ahead of him.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago I think they suspend him without pay and keep his rights...sort of like owning the rights to players when they go play in Europe etc.

    DD
  • Stephen says 1 YEAR ago I see 5 possibilities.

    1) The Rockets do nothing,just bide their time,hoping it all works out.

    2) Trade him.
    Zero chance of trading him by himself,as any team interested has to believe the Rockets will eventually waive him and they can then pick up Royce for the minimum.
    But,he could be the throw-in that another team has to take in exchange for getting the player they want from Rockets.
    For examples:
    Morris,White to Chi for Rip Hamilton and the lottery-protected(until 2016,unprotected) Charlotte 2012 First.
    Pat,White,cash to Sac for James Johnson and the right to swap the next available Firsts(perhaps top-3 or so protected).
    Morris,White to Phoenix for Wes Johnson,D. Garrett and the 2013 Laker First(and all it's permutations.)

    3) Waive him. Pay him his 2 yrs guaranteed money and walk away. Most likely,even tho Morey takes PR hit and loses face w/Les.
    Since all First Rd rookie deals are only guaranteed for two yrs,there's nothing Royce can do or sue over.

    4) Negotiate a buy-out. Not gonna happen as Royce has zero reason to give up any guaranteed money.

    5) Void his contract w/the intent of not having to pay Royce. Pleasing as that may be for many,it's dang near impossible.
    It appears from the NBA's Uniform Player Contract that if the team was able to void his contract they would only be on the hook for the prorated portion of this yr's salary.
    However they would have to prove:
    (i) at any time, fail, refuse, or neglect to conform his personal conduct to standards of good citizenship, good moral character (defined here to mean not engaging in acts of moral turpitude, whether or not such acts would constitute a crime), and good sportsmanship, to keep himself in first class physical condition, or to obey the Team’s training rules;
    (iv) at any time, fail, refuse, or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach this Contract.
    (Article 16,Clause A)
    http://www.nbpa.org/sites/nbpa.org/files/EXHIBIT%20A.pdf

    This is where the lawsuits start to fly. The Player's Union will be actively involved as well. Heck,even Agents will be joining in to keep teams from arbitrarily voiding contracts and thus their commissions off same. Don't see the Rockets going there,so most unlikely.
  • Rahat Huq says 1 YEAR ago What an absolutely bizarre situation.
  • Matt Maloney's Ghost says 1 YEAR ago The only way to salvage the year for Royce White is to restructure his deal where he can only play home games; NBA and DLeague.

    I know that sounds like a pipe dream but we have to figure out a way to up his value.

    I would hate to trade T Jones or D. Mon.

    DCousins is on the market. He is the only game changing player out there on the market. But what do I know, I had no idea Harden was available.
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Jlin can penetrate, Harden can penetrate, we don't need a smooth dribbling PF who can pass, we need one that can finish.

    Get rid of White, NOW.

    I suspect that the Rox know exactly what they are doing Sir, and are building a case to void his contract. And they know what happens when they tell him what he doesn't want to hear, doesn't mean they should avoid it.

    Royce has been surrounded by "YES" people for years, and he is 100% a mommas boy, everyone has bowed down to his every whim at every turn since high school, now he gets to the real world and doesn't understand what is going on.

    Meanwhile all the enablers continue to tell him to do his thing.......wait until the money stops and see what they say then...lol.

    GOOD RIDDANCE you fraud !

    DD
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago It certainly does sound like White is expecting too much when he says: "The purpose of a doctor\'s confirmation is to ensure that health decisions are made in the sole interest of health and not conflicted with business."

    That is clearly not going to be the case here - fundamentally the Rockets are a business and no decision they make is going to be \'in the sole interest of health\'. While of course they should not be making decisions that are explicitly detrimental to the health of their players, every choice they make is going to have some kind of business component to it.

    [color="#000000">The Rockets need to be firm with White, but they also need to make sure that they don\'t talk to him in a manner that will set him off. It does sound like someone within the Rockets organisation has not got that message - my impression of his latest statement was that it was a reaction to someone telling him: "Just because your doctor says so, doesn\'t mean we have to do it that way" in a manner he didn\'t agree with (eg. "[/color>The Rockets have told me in recent conversations that it is their right to decline even their own doctors\' recommendations.") Now, while I don\'t think the Rockets should be rolling over and allowing whatever the doctors recommend without question, I also think there are probably less inflammatory ways of communicating that to White. In the end it is still their goal to get White to play for them, after all, and it doesn\'t cost them anything to phrase their dialogue in a non-threatening manner.

    Anyhow, that\'s all speculation, and not particularly useful speculation at that because we don\'t know the full details, nor are we ever likely to.

    ST
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Please cut Royce - he is just not that good of an NBA player, and certainly NOT worth the headache.

    DD
  • Stephen says 1 YEAR ago DD,100% agree.

    Interesting that the Rockets are about to sign James Anderson(a SG,thank heavens!) and per Feigan still want to sign Beverly.
    They've got to unload two players to sign both.
    While it's probably some combo of Machado,Cook and Aldrich,I wonder if this was White's last chance and the Rockets will just pull the plug and waive Royce?
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago Now he won't report to the D-league again, and issues a statement that the Rockets are not following protocal, or doctors "Recommendations"...the problem is that he is calling "recommendations" as truths, when the reality is that what the doctors recommend is just another opinion - nothing more, and holds no weight.

    I really really really want this guy gone - the Rockets have enough good young players, and this guy is not that good to begin with, especially with him basically pulling a George Castanza and faking being handicapped - when the reality is that he has OCD, and lots of people get along just fine with it.

    He is trying to pull a fast one and get his way - like he has done his entire life, it is a learned behavior, the difference now is that these are professionals he is dealing with and they will not back down.

    Morey will keep a good public persona, but will not crater to a kid and his demands, no matter how many times he sticks his thumb in his mouth and throws a tantrum.

    Royce White will probably never wear a Rockets uniform and good riddance.

    DD
  • DaDakota says 1 YEAR ago I don't believe he has any major issue at all other than entitlement.

    Some people have convinced him that he should always get his way to avoid any anxiety attacks, which he has not had since he was 18 years old.

    IMO, what he needs is a good dose of tough love - either grow up, or get out.

    Too many people kissing this kids butt, and growing up without a father has made it worse.

    I applaud the Rockets for sticking to their guns, but this guy is never going to amount to anything unless he stops trying to get everyone to do it his way and learns that the world doesn't work that way.

    Good riddance as far as I am concerned.
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago

    bboley24, on 17 December 2012 - 02:19 AM said:



    I would love to see him workout with Rio. Get him out there in their facilities. No travel. Just play home games. Have a regiment of a professional athlete. That's why I am so interested about what he's doing. The situation for he and the organization doesn't seem to be moving in any direction. Just screwing around trying to justify his absence.


    Assuming Royce White finally makes it to Rio, there is no reason to allow him to play only home games as D-Leaguers do all their travel by bus. So that eliminates one of Royce's hugest issues, that being flying to the next game. The Rockets would also be able to monitor how well Royce does when traveling on the road, by bus, in between games. If he can't hack it in the D-League with no flying requirements, then that should settle once and for all whether or not Royce White is NBA worthy. Hopefully Les Alexander was able to acquire some sort of insurance based on Royce White's pre-existing condition similar to what Les had for injury concerns while T-Mac and Yao were under contract.

    I am always excited when new talent comes to the Rockets. However, I have no stomach for mama drama and would expect this episode to not end well for Royce White if he doesn't step up and do what is contractually required of him.
  • Rahat Huq says 1 YEAR ago I hate being a homer, but a lesser organization would not have handled this situation as well as the Rockets have.
  • Chichos says 1 YEAR ago I think the Rockets have taken a wait and see approach. They have Royce for three years I believe.

    What I want to know is how is he getting paid? Does insurance cover his contract if the Rocket's doctor claim his condition prevents him from playing for the Rockets? Do the Rockets have to pay him if their doctors determine he is medically fit to play but just doesn't want to?

    If Royce doesn't play for the Rockets could he sell his story to hollywood and make a mint? If he does he should figure out how to get Denzel in there somehow. Maybe as old broken down Royce looking back on his playing days and wondering how it all fell apart/remembering how he got himself together and became a perennial all star (here is to hoping for the latter).
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Wow. I just skimmed over some of his tweets for the last month or so... This has engulfed his life. It's all he does day in and day out. He's feeding off of twitter. Mental Health this and that for days on end. I don't see this getting better any time soon. I

    found the best way to live with my bipolar disorder is to take my medications regularly and stay on a schedule. Work is really good for me because im good at what I do and it's very structured. This guy seems to be on his phone all day talking about his issues. This school shooting seemed to fuel his fire as well.

    I would love to see him workout with Rio. Get him out there in their facilities. No travel. Just play home games. Have a regiment of a professional athlete. That's why I am so interested about what he's doing. The situation for he and the organization doesn't seem to be moving in any direction. Just screwing around trying to justify his absence.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Thursday im not with you on that... at least when it was loud the team seemed like they're were doing something. But then again, I hope Royce realizes that nobody cares about him unless he starts to do his job.

    Meanwhile.... as I care about him too much...

    Is he just laying on his couch? Dribbling a basketball up and down his street? Playing WoW with his buddies?
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago I'm quite pleased they've finally got everything quiet so it can be resolved behind closed doors. I don't want to hear anything more about it until they've reached a concrete conclusion that they'll be able to carry through without the histronics from a few weeks back. Media's got to learn when to keep its nose out of things.

    ST
  • Chichos says 1 YEAR ago https://twitter.com/Highway_30

    its pretty boring. seems like he has a lot of time on his hands
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago Where is Royce White?

    Is he at home diddling himself? Is he at the Rocket's facilities? Is he in Iowa? What is he doing? What is the team doing?

    I am in Pittsburgh and I don't know what im doing.
  • rockets best fan says 1 YEAR ago totally agree with Sir Thursday. there is little chance white will make it to the court this year anyway(his missed time and the log jam in front of him). it's a blessing for the rockets that they don't have to depend on this guy right now. I say give this guy a year to get his sh_t together. if he still has not become productive cut him. you can not allow 1 bad apple to spoil the bunch. I know some want us to hold his hand(I am not one of them). either he learns to get a handle on his problem or cut him. it's just that simple to me. I remember when we drafted eddie griffen. like white a very good prospect, looking back now that kid must have had some deep issues also, but the wait and see route didn't work with him. no matter how we tried to work with him it just kept falling apart. I see white in this same light. he may not be a bad person , but just can not handle the nba.
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago I didn't even think about that. What a mess. I think the greatest disappointment will come when he is let go and signs with another team and magically "works through his problems" and becomes a productive NBA player at the expense of the Rockets franchise. I think of all of the troubled people that have come and gone through the league and those that dealt with their issues to go to work and contribute.

    Thousands and thousands of players have come and gone and yet he seems to be the one character that has an issue with dealing with his own problems. He has a complex that has been fed to him since he was a child. I am POSITIVE that this kid has issues that are difficult to deal with. But I don't think he's dealing with them.

    Back to the topic at hand though...

    Is he at home playing video games? Is he not working with trainers? Is he boycotting the team or league? Why not go down to Rio and only play home games??? He's getting paid... staying in shape and developing his talents. Not to mention getting used to the rigors of being a professional athelete and buying into a team sport. Not A1A Beachfront IOWA.
  • Stephen says 1 YEAR ago There are several issues that are going to be very difficult to resolve.

    From the outside it sure looks like Royce has huge problems w/change.
    That's problematic for several reasons. Esp since it doesn't look like Royce will be able to overcome his issues anytime soon-if ever.

    To accommodate Royce the Rockets will have to have two sets of rules for the team-which always leads to locker-room problems that spill out onto the court. It's not just the travel thing. As a young boy Royce watched a teammate collapse while running wind sprints and it's freaked him out since.
    I wouldn't be surprised if part of Royce's "protocols" included not having to run them,instead doing some other form of conditioning.(Which might explain the coaches murmurings about Royce's conditioning.)

    Then there's the way Royce's preferred "protocols" for dealing w/his issues seem to change w/out any warning for the Rockets. There's going to come a point where they just won't want to spend the energy anymore trying to deal w/him. At that point he's gone.

    As to the twitter onslaught,Woj in his article implied Royce's Agent told Royce to shut up and was ignored.(Keep in mind Woj's sources are mainly agents.)
  • bboley24 says 1 YEAR ago 190 views... So apparently I am not the only one wondering what he is up to. So is he just not attending anything Rockets related? Is this some sort of boycott until he gets what he wants? I am confused as to what he is doing and what he thinks he's doing. Does anyone have any inside information as I am in Pittsburgh and can't read Royce's mind from this far away.
  • Sir Thursday says 1 YEAR ago

    rocketrick, on 30 November 2012 - 23:31 PM said:


    Several Harlem Globetrotter players were sitting in my section Tuesday night (Toronto). Doesn't look like they were scouting Royce White though since he has sort of disappeared off into la-la land. It's incredible to think Royce White actually believes his mental illness would improve only if the Rockets would give him some playing time in games. Practice? Who needs practice if your name if Royce White? I'm sure the other Rockets players would understand if Royce White all of a sudden was promoted to starting PF in place of Patterson. Of course, there are a number of people on these boards that would be just fine with that, perhaps that is why Royce White believes the Rockets simply should hand him the starting PF job or give him 20-25 minutes in a key backup role sans practice time.


    I figure there's plenty of time for this to get resolved, and if both parties are smart they will do it behind closed doors and not let Royce spout off on Twitter like he's been doing. Certainly it doesn't look great to an outside observer, but I'm sure there's a lot of stuff we're not privy to and frankly we're probably better off not knowing (since the more people know, the more likely something is to go wrong, in my estimation). It may take a while, but I'm hopeful that eventually the two parties will be able to come to an understanding. It's just that we'll have to wait for it, which nobody is good at doing in this day and age.

    ST
  • rocketrick says 1 YEAR ago Several Harlem Globetrotter players were sitting in my section Tuesday night (Toronto). Doesn't look like they were scouting Royce White though since he has sort of disappeared off into la-la land. It's incredible to think Royce White actually believes his mental illness would improve only if the Rockets would give him some playing time in games. Practice? Who needs practice if your name if Royce White? I'm sure the other Rockets players would understand if Royce White all of a sudden was promoted to starting PF in place of Patterson. Of course, there are a number of people on these boards that would be just fine with that, perhaps that is why Royce White believes the Rockets simply should hand him the starting PF job or give him 20-25 minutes in a key backup role sans practice time.

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