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glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left
Posted 10 June 2015 - 02:28 AM
Both of those players would definitely help and would get the rockets closer to a championship, if not win one. I think Karl values Collison highly, but that could change after the draft. I am wondering which way the Pacers will go. Will they resign David West and try to compete with Cleveland or will they try to go young and build completely around PG13. If the Pacers go young, then Hill might be had
I think Collison will be available. look for Ty Lawson to show up in Sac town.
you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own 
Advanced Member
Posted 10 June 2015 - 03:51 AM
Hmmm, I didn't think about that. If that's all true then it does sound like a bad idea. I don't envy Morey's job here. Maybe he'll just pony up the money to send Nick Johnson to Steve Nash's PG camp and hope that helps
.
Most of the stuff are just taken out of context. Off course as a player you want to take game winners when there really isn't a hierarchy when Kobe is out. As one of the players with most experience on the wing position (Lakers very inexperience this year) you want to take some, but he never demanded it. Same with any player who is asked if he wants to start as well.
Regarding having the ball in his hand, Kobe took dumb shots just to get his ppg average. That comment was after when Kobe took 38 fga, he was asked a question regarding his lack of aggressiveness and ball movement.
I'm not a Lin fan, if he had problem with the Rockets before I don't think Morey would even consider him. I think people on both sides either don't give him enough credit or too much credit depending if you are a fan of not of him. He is a decent scorer and might help this team if he comes for cheap.
Regarding Lou Williams, he is exactly like Crawford taking dumb and hard shots. He can shoot you out of the game and win you some. But as a Toronto resident and a Rockets fan I wouldn't take him.
My preference is Brooks but not sure if he is available.
Junior Member
Posted 10 June 2015 - 06:32 AM
I'm not sure what Sacramento has to offer Denver besides the 1st round pick. If the Rondo rumors are true and Sacramento uses the 6th pick on a pg, I think collison could be had for cheap.I think Collison will be available. look for Ty Lawson to show up in Sac town.
glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left
Posted 11 June 2015 - 06:27 AM
I'm not sure what Sacramento has to offer Denver besides the 1st round pick. If the Rondo rumors are true and Sacramento uses the 6th pick on a pg, I think collison could be had for cheap.
3 team deal...............Sac gets Ty Lawson.....Denver get Sac's first rounder and 2 future 2nd rounders and some money matching contracts Houston's second rounder Papa and N. Johnson..........Houston get D Collison
why it works for Sac.........George Karl loves him some Ty Lawson and who is Sac's coach? I don't believe he really likes Collison. whether we get him or not I don't believe he will be there much longer
why it works for Denver......the Point guard market is a buyers market right now. only a few teams need one and of those teams only a couple will pony up reasonable offers. Ty Lawson has become unhappy and is asking for a trade.......do you risk hanging on to him and watching the situation slide downhill? Sac's first rounder in a very good pick which would give Denver 2 top 6 picks to aid their rebuild. Papa's contract can be wiped from the books to clear some of the money they would have paid Collison basically freeing them of his contract. also the 2nd rounder Houston would be tossing in is the 2nd pick in the second round. because of the flexibility 2nd round contracts offer....high 2nd rounder are considered more valuable than late first rounders
why it works for Houston.......we get our PG without losing any of our most valued assets
you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own
Veteran
Posted 11 June 2015 - 03:50 PM
3 team deal...............Sac gets Ty Lawson.....Denver get Sac's first rounder and 2 future 2nd rounders and some money matching contracts Houston's second rounder Papa and N. Johnson..........Houston get D Collison
why it works for Sac.........George Karl loves him some Ty Lawson and who is Sac's coach? I don't believe he really likes Collison. whether we get him or not I don't believe he will be there much longer
why it works for Denver......the Point guard market is a buyers market right now. only a few teams need one and of those teams only a couple will pony up reasonable offers. Ty Lawson has become unhappy and is asking for a trade.......do you risk hanging on to him and watching the situation slide downhill? Sac's first rounder in a very good pick which would give Denver 2 top 6 picks to aid their rebuild. Papa's contract can be wiped from the books to clear some of the money they would have paid Collison basically freeing them of his contract. also the 2nd rounder Houston would be tossing in is the 2nd pick in the second round. because of the flexibility 2nd round contracts offer....high 2nd rounder are considered more valuable than late first rounders
why it works for Houston.......we get our PG without losing any of our most valued assets
Only one problem I see with this...Why would Sacramento surrender the 6th pick in this draft (not to mention the other picks and Collison) for a PG who doesn't even fall in the top 10 in the league for that position? There is still quite a bit of talent on the board at the 6th position. If they are going to move it I think they can get a better return than Lawson (especially if they pair it with one of their young SG's and one of their reasonably priced PF's)
Collison is a solid offensive PG; although, he doesn't create much for his team mates (5.6 APG in 34 minutes) and he pairs that with 2.5 TO's/game. My biggest concern is his lackluster defense. It keeps getting repeated that Houston can only afford one weak wing defender with Harden out there. While I don't think Harden is a zero on defense, it does seem to hold true that we are better when he is the weak link all by himself.
I keep seeing reports that the Rockets are putting the hard sell on Sergio Llull. I guess that is priority #1 for them. I guess we'll have to wait and see what his decision is before looking at other PG's.
glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left
Posted 12 June 2015 - 05:02 AM
Only one problem I see with this...Why would Sacramento surrender the 6th pick in this draft (not to mention the other picks and Collison) for a PG who doesn't even fall in the top 10 in the league for that position? There is still quite a bit of talent on the board at the 6th position. If they are going to move it I think they can get a better return than Lawson (especially if they pair it with one of their young SG's and one of their reasonably priced PF's)
Collison is a solid offensive PG; although, he doesn't create much for his team mates (5.6 APG in 34 minutes) and he pairs that with 2.5 TO's/game. My biggest concern is his lackluster defense. It keeps getting repeated that Houston can only afford one weak wing defender with Harden out there. While I don't think Harden is a zero on defense, it does seem to hold true that we are better when he is the weak link all by himself.
I keep seeing reports that the Rockets are putting the hard sell on Sergio Llull. I guess that is priority #1 for them. I guess we'll have to wait and see what his decision is before looking at other PG's.
Lawson isn't Chris Paul that's for sure, but he's also not garbage. many consider him a star. I don't. he's a good player. he has flaws, but don't they all? Sac will want him because of GEORGE KARL. will they part with their 1st rounder? I don't know. but it wouldn't surprise me to find out Denver and Sac have at least discussed it. Lawson had his most productive play under Karl. both may be pushing for a reunion.
as for Collison.......I don't think Sac view him as a good fit for them. however while he doesn't fit what they need he does what we need pretty good..............SHOOT. I agree he could stand some improvement on defense, however he can't be any worse than Terry or Prigs and we still manage to drag those two into the west finals. no doubt he could use some extra gym time improving his play making abilities. however those are the very same reasons he will be cheap. while his contract isn't an albatross I bet if Sac acquires what they feel is an upgrade at PG his days will be numbered.
as for Llull..........while I know you must evaluate each player on his own that whole ( best player in Euro Ball) isn't going to excite me any more after looking at Papa and Dorsey 
I agree it appears the Rockets are preparing a big push to bring him over, but you have to excuse me if I won't be at the airport when he lands I trust Morey, but he's not mistake proof........he kept McHale didn't he? just had to toss that in there
you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own
Junior Member
Posted 12 June 2015 - 03:49 PM
Junior Member
Posted 13 June 2015 - 09:25 PM
Fernanadez just signed through 2018 before last season...don't think he's real interested in the nba anymore; especially a non-starter role (ariza's spot). He turned down other nba offers last year for real madrid.
LoSTHieF
I'd Rather Be Lucky Than Skilled
Junior Member
Posted 14 June 2015 - 04:31 AM
Fernanadez just signed through 2018 before last season...don't think he's real interested in the nba anymore; especially a non-starter role (ariza's spot). He turned down other nba offers last year for real madrid.
glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left
Posted 15 June 2015 - 05:55 AM
I'm not sold on Llull as well but if you were going to go all in with him would you offer rudy fernandez a deal to sweeten the move for llull? Fernandez would bring 3 pt shooting to the team.
Also love the sac three way trade idea but might have been blown out of the water with Sac firing their GM who is rumored to go to Denver.
looks like you are right on Sac deal
you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own
Junior Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 01:46 PM
looks like you are right on Sac deal
I guess this means if Sacramento are out of the way Houston is a real contender for Lawson.
On another note what is the advantage of picking up Paps $4.8million option? I'm guessing it is to match salaries in a trade but isn't it pretty risky as if you don't get a trade you have less to pay free agents?
Junior Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 02:26 PM
either that or they like Pap, he was good at the beginning of the year...maybe JSmoove insurance as a the 3rd PF if he's not staying for cheap? But my guess is salary for a trade too...non-guaranteed til October 4th means it could be a good trade asset.
LoSTHieF
I'd Rather Be Lucky Than Skilled
Senior Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 07:01 PM
glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left
Posted 16 June 2015 - 03:15 AM
I think they wanted to stay over the cap to have the full MLE.
correct........besides they can still cut him at any time b4 Oct. Papa will be use as a salary matching tool should a trade arise. if not he will be cut loose. I was not at all impress by him at any time last year and looking at how his PT dwindled I would guess the Rockets feel the same way
you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own
Veteran
Posted 18 June 2015 - 08:10 PM
Where are all the writers at? No articles on the Rockets' cap situation? No articles debating the merits of Sergio Llull, Jerian Grant, and Tyus Jones? Nothing about Collison vs. Lawson? (...or Brandon Jennings 
) No talk of LMA or Love? Weird...
Well, we've touched on the Collison Lawson thing. Reports keep bubbling up about Llull finally coming over, but he won't officially announce until June 28th (or later) and the Rockets can't say anything until after the 1st. Regardless, it looks like one of Grant/Jones will fall to us in the draft so we will be getting some help at PG.
Personally, I really like Grant. He's got size, poise, leadership, plays both ends, and can play the 1 or the 2 for us. He fits Morey's mold of a 4 year player and he wasn't just all conference...he was a consensus 1st team all-american last season. Playing at Notre Dame means he's got a good head on his shoulders as they maintain rigorous academic standards. If he is there at 18 I really hope we take him. The only knock against him is his 3 pt shooting, but that can be fixed. He does everything else very well.
He is not likely to become a star, but he certainly looks capable of being a rock solid player the same way Wesley Matthews plays Robin to Lillard's Batman.
What's nice is this gives us options regarding Beverley and Nick Johnson. Suppose Llull comes over and we draft Grant. Suddenly we've got good depth at the 1 and can consider a trade that adds to our depth at another position. Is Capela ready to play 20 mpg? Is Terrence Jones going to spend the off season learning how to play interior defense?
I saw a mock draft that had us taking this guy in the 2nd round. He's another tall, skilled, euro player that needs to develop a little longer.
I see lots of chatter about us being able to snag Aldridge in a sign and trade that doesn't require us to empty the cupboard. I'm not buying it for multiple reasons, but that's very interesting. Odds are D-Mo gets shipped out in that deal. Personally, I'd prefer to keep D-MO versus adding Aldridge. Maybe I'm an idiot, but at this point I think that is the better move. Aldridge is about to decline while D-Mo is close to being the 2nd best player on our team (if not already).
I mostly just wanted to get the ball rolling as this place has gone silent. What does everyone think about Llull, Grant and Jones? If we get two of those guys do we keep Beverley? Is Beverley gone regardless?
Veteran
Posted 18 June 2015 - 09:58 PM
Wow, just watched this workout video for Jerian Grant....I cannot believe he will be there at 18 for us. Somebody is going to pick him up before then....maybe we can trade up for him or swap Jones and the 18th to move up?
His three point shooting looks fine to me.
glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left
Posted 19 June 2015 - 01:18 AM
@JG
I have been watching this kid also and fully agree with you that should he be there at 18 he should be our pick even if Tyrus Jones is still on the board. however I don't agree about trading T. Jones to move up and get him. this draft is deep in PF's. a lot of the teams in front of us will be going that route in my opinion. I think this kid will be there at 18. and I also agree it's pretty slow around here for some reason
you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own
Senior Member
Posted 19 June 2015 - 03:26 AM
Indiana and okc are the only teams in that 10-17 range that could really use a pg. Indy at 11 is probably a reach for grant and Payne is generally regarded higher so even if both went for a pg, Jones or Wright would still be on the board and I don't think the talent gap between them justifies trading up.
glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left
Posted 19 June 2015 - 04:19 AM
Indiana and okc are the only teams in that 10-17 range that could really use a pg. Indy at 11 is probably a reach for grant and Payne is generally regarded higher so even if both went for a pg, Jones or Wright would still be on the board and I don't think the talent gap between them justifies trading up.
I don't think the talent gap is that big right now between Tyrus Jones and Jerian Grant, but Grant is more physical, a better defender and 6' 5". if he develops as expected IMO he will have the higher ceiling
you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own
Veteran
Posted 19 June 2015 - 06:10 PM
Yeah, I just can't imagine why we would want another undersized guard. Canaan, Johnson, and even going back to Brooks. There is definitely talent there, but if we can get a legit 6'5" PG with Grant's skills and leadership I hope we take him.
Here is his DraftExpress profile. I just saw another reason to take him at #18 (not that I needed one).....Chad Ford has him on the Maverick's radar at #21....that's two birds with one stone. Draft a great looking player and piss off Cuban at the same time
I know most of us love Beverley, but the PG position for us is one dimensional (whether it's defense with Bev/Johnson or offense with Terry/Prigs)-- we always have a glaring weakness at that position. Llull and Grant could be answers for us and both could be in ketchup and mustard come October.
I think the Rockets, as of now, are heading into next season with a strong team that is most likely going to be even better. I can't wait for the report that comes out at the start of training camp where Capela has added 20 pounds of muscle. D-Mo will be better (believe the hype!). Papanikolaou will have found his shot. Nick Johnson also remembered how to put the ball through the hoop. Plus, what is James Harden going to add to his game this Summer? Post ups? The Dream Shake? I'm hoping for a spin move.
I'm already excited....oh, the agony of Summer (The Deadzone of Sports). At least the 'Stros are watchable again.
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