160 replies to this topic

[rockets best fan]

I wouldn't take Lin if he agreed to pay us

[thejohnnygold]

Ha, Brandon Jennings gets the Josh Smith treatment.  He's not as bad as his reputation.  He was on a bad Milwaukee team trying to share the ball with Monta and then went to a worse Detroit team that only employed coaches whose heads could fit entirely up their own butts (until SVG).

 

Brandon Jennings shot 36% from deep (on 5 shots per game) last season.  His per36 numbers are 19 points, 8.3 assists, a steal and 2.8 to's.  He's an 84% ft shooter.  He shot 52% on corner threes last year!!!  Imagine if people judged Trevor Ariza for the way he played in Houston his first time here.  It was a bad fit on a mediocre team in the wrong role.  Jennings would thrive here and his excellent 3:1 assist to turnover ratio is exactly what we are looking for.  Bonus: he's left-handed!  Morey can't pass up a lefty!

 

I do agree that pairing him back up with Smith is a tad risky, but I think it will work out.

 

As for Lin, I'm not looking for him to be the starter next to Harden.  I'd like him as a back-up.  He's good enough that if a team tries to overload on Harden he can make them pay.  That's all we need.  I wouldn't put any stock into what happened in LA.  That was a train wreck of a team and they were tanking.

[majik19]

Ha, Brandon Jennings gets the Josh Smith treatment.  He's not as bad as his reputation.  He was on a bad Milwaukee team trying to share the ball with Monta and then went to a worse Detroit team that only employed coaches whose heads could fit entirely up their own butts (until SVG).

 

Brandon Jennings shot 36% from deep (on 5 shots per game) last season.  His per36 numbers are 19 points, 8.3 assists, a steal and 2.8 to's.  He's an 84% ft shooter.  He shot 52% on corner threes last year!!!  Imagine if people judged Trevor Ariza for the way he played in Houston his first time here.  It was a bad fit on a mediocre team in the wrong role.  Jennings would thrive here and his excellent 3:1 assist to turnover ratio is exactly what we are looking for.  Bonus: he's left-handed!  Morey can't pass up a lefty!

 

I do agree that pairing him back up with Smith is a tad risky, but I think it will work out.

 

So he's an average 3 point shooter... but my biggest concern is defense. You really want to throw out a backcourt of Jennings and Harden to defend Curry and Thompson, or Paul and Reddick, or... (you know who I'm talking about). I think Lawson is a better defender and a better 3 point shooter, so he's option #1 for me as far as PG trades go. 

[thejohnnygold]

So he's an average 3 point shooter... but my biggest concern is defense. You really want to throw out a backcourt of Jennings and Harden to defend Curry and Thompson, or Paul and Reddick, or... (you know who I'm talking about). I think Lawson is a better defender and a better 3 point shooter, so he's option #1 for me as far as PG trades go. 

 

That's cool.  I don't dislike Lawson--I just prefer Jennings.  I couldn't find much of anything that points to Lawson being a better defender statistically.  His 3 pt. shooting has been average (and declining) each of the last 4 years.  His assist to turnover is nice at nearly 4:1.  I don't feel any better about facing opposing back courts with Lawson than I do with Jennings.

[rockets best fan]

That's cool.  I don't dislike Lawson--I just prefer Jennings.  I couldn't find much of anything that points to Lawson being a better defender statistically.  His 3 pt. shooting has been average (and declining) each of the last 4 years.  His assist to turnover is nice at nearly 4:1.  I don't feel any better about facing opposing back courts with Lawson than I do with Jennings.

JG this is the thing that worries me about Jennings.............to Quote JVG.... you can have one knucklehead in the locker room and be alright, but you can't have two or they will multiply  . when J Smith came here I expected it would have a calming effect on him. I didn't foresee him having the impact he did, but I knew him playing with the veteran group and well groomed young players we have would be more to his liking than the group in the motor city. it's a possibility it may work for Jennings as well, but both of them together..........???? that's nitro.....it can either make you go really fast or blow up.   

[Losthief]

I don't really think smith is a locker room knucklehead, on court absolutely at times with decision making, but everything from all his coaches/teammates seem to point at a fairly level-headed and nice guy lockerroom/off-court wise. Now if your talking on court then your probably right, but maybe we can keep them off it together?

Edited by Losthief, 08 June 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[thejohnnygold]

I agree with Losthief....and I agree with RBF.  I think the bone-headed aspect is solely on the court....and it may not work with both of them out there.  I still contend their reputation and play is as much a product of their environment as it is their own flaws.

 

I was just looking over the free agency list.  A few other names jumped out as potential "Morey" guys: under-valued guys with at least 1 high level skill.

 

Kendall Marshall is a free agent (and coming off an ACL tear...which apparently is like a sprained ankle these days)

 

Ish Smith is back on the market, but he still can't shoot.  

 

Lou Williams isn't a PG, but he is the reigning 6thMOY.  (TOR used him as a Jamal Crawford-type, but he can run the point and distribute)

 

I'm just curious what people's thoughts on any of these guys are.  I think Marshall could be a very nice addition.

[Cooper]

Marshall had trouble staying in front of guys even before the injury, but playing against mostly backups he'd likely be serviceable and his passing would do wonders for a 2nd unit that lacks creativity. For near minimum money certainly worth a look if other alternatives prove too costly or our trade/draft assets are used elsewhere.

Running it back with Ish is uninspiring and lou williams seems like a good candidate to be overpaid.

[majik19]

I think Lou Williams would be a decent fit, but I agree with Cooper - he's probably going to be overpaid. 

 

Marshall is interesting as a cheap upside pickup. 

 

Some other ones that jump out at me as potentially cheap options (definitely stretches as starters, no order):

 

CJ Watson

Donald Sloan

Rodney Stuckey

Gerald Henderson

Alan Anderson

Wayne Ellington

Derrick Williams (dude played in Sacramento and Minnesota, may still be potential there)

Chris Copeland (uneven performances but still potential there)

Luc Mbah a Moute

Reggie Evans

Darrell Arthur

[thejohnnygold]

I think Lou Williams would be a decent fit, but I agree with Cooper - he's probably going to be overpaid. 

 

Marshall is interesting as a cheap upside pickup. 

 

Some other ones that jump out at me as potentially cheap options (definitely stretches as starters, no order):

 

CJ Watson

Donald Sloan

Rodney Stuckey

Gerald Henderson

Alan Anderson

Wayne Ellington

Derrick Williams (dude played in Sacramento and Minnesota, may still be potential there)

Chris Copeland (uneven performances but still potential there)

Luc Mbah a Moute

Reggie Evans

Darrell Arthur

 

Wait, I thought we were focusing on players who could come in as play-making ball handlers who, ideally, can score as well to help ease Harden's load.  I like some of those players, but not for that role.

 

The reality is we don't have cap room for the top free agents in this category.  The ones we can afford aren't really the answer outside of a couple that might work out.  Llull is a long shot to come over (and there is no guarantee he is an answer).  If we really want to upgrade the PG spot then it's going to cost--and likely more than just Jones, Papa, and the Pel's pick (which is all anyone seems willing to offer).

 

Right now, I'd rather add Lin, Marshall, or someone like them and see what the trade deadline offers up.  I know some don't like Lin, but outside of his turnover issues, he's pretty solid for what we need.  You guys are probably right that Lou Williams gets a big pay day. 

[majik19]

Wait, I thought we were focusing on players who could come in as play-making ball handlers who, ideally, can score as well to help ease Harden's load.  I like some of those players, but not for that role.

 

The reality is we don't have cap room for the top free agents in this category.  The ones we can afford aren't really the answer outside of a couple that might work out.  Llull is a long shot to come over (and there is no guarantee he is an answer).  If we really want to upgrade the PG spot then it's going to cost--and likely more than just Jones, Papa, and the Pel's pick (which is all anyone seems willing to offer).

 

Right now, I'd rather add Lin, Marshall, or someone like them and see what the trade deadline offers up.  I know some don't like Lin, but outside of his turnover issues, he's pretty solid for what we need.  You guys are probably right that Lou Williams gets a big pay day. 

Sorry, I did expand the scope a bit...

 

I think Jones, Papa, and the 1st are definitely the start to any deal. I don't think either the Nuggets (Lawson) or Pistons (Jennings) would be interested in Capela (Nuggets want to play fast, Pistons have Drummond), nor do I expect a ton of interest in Johnson. We do also have the 32nd pick, which has some value (though more probably to us, since Morey is a wizard at the beginning of the 2nd). If the Nuggets are desperate enough to unload Lawson or Piston Jennings, maybe that's enough. 

[clydesmoustache]

Wait, I thought we were focusing on players who could come in as play-making ball handlers who, ideally, can score as well to help ease Harden's load. I like some of those players, but not for that role.

The reality is we don't have cap room for the top free agents in this category. The ones we can afford aren't really the answer outside of a couple that might work out. Llull is a long shot to come over (and there is no guarantee he is an answer). If we really want to upgrade the PG spot then it's going to cost--and likely more than just Jones, Papa, and the Pel's pick (which is all anyone seems willing to offer).

Right now, I'd rather add Lin, Marshall, or someone like them and see what the trade deadline offers up. I know some don't like Lin, but outside of his turnover issues, he's pretty solid for what we need. You guys are probably right that Lou Williams gets a big pay day.

I hear you JG. Lin for cheap could be handy. If we also have terry for cheap he could provide some nice positive mentoring with how to handle the sixth man role. I tell you what though the moderators of this site will be really busy again with all the lin fans. Ugh is it worth it? I have enjoyed the forum so much more than previous lin years!

[rockets best fan]

Wait, I thought we were focusing on players who could come in as play-making ball handlers who, ideally, can score as well to help ease Harden's load.  I like some of those players, but not for that role.

 

The reality is we don't have cap room for the top free agents in this category.  The ones we can afford aren't really the answer outside of a couple that might work out.  Llull is a long shot to come over (and there is no guarantee he is an answer).  If we really want to upgrade the PG spot then it's going to cost--and likely more than just Jones, Papa, and the Pel's pick (which is all anyone seems willing to offer).

 

Right now, I'd rather add Lin, Marshall, or someone like them and see what the trade deadline offers up.  I know some don't like Lin, but outside of his turnover issues, he's pretty solid for what we need.  You guys are probably right that Lou Williams gets a big pay day. 

I agree we won't have much to chase the big names nor should we be interested in doing so unless one just falls into our hands. I agree Lawson will cost more than what most seem willing to give up. I like Marshall in a backup role but I think we must think bigger than that. you already know how I feel regarding Lin so I won't bring that up  I think trade is the only way we can get a player who will be worth the effort and will be the caliber of player we need to get us over the hump, but what is to much to give up? 

Edited by rockets best fan, 09 June 2015 - 03:20 AM.

[rockets best fan]

this might be a moved that won't cost much and could pay good dividends.........trade for Collison from Sac or maybe Hill from Indiana

[Willk]

this might be a moved that won't cost much and could pay good dividends.........trade for Collison from Sac or maybe Hill from Indiana

Both of those players would definitely help and would get the rockets closer to a championship, if not win one. I think Karl values Collison highly, but that could change after the draft. I am wondering which way the Pacers will go. Will they resign David West and try to compete with Cleveland or will they try to go young and build completely around PG13. If the Pacers go young, then Hill might be had.

[Willk]

Wait, I thought we were focusing on players who could come in as play-making ball handlers who, ideally, can score as well to help ease Harden's load.  I like some of those players, but not for that role.

 

The reality is we don't have cap room for the top free agents in this category.  The ones we can afford aren't really the answer outside of a couple that might work out.  Llull is a long shot to come over (and there is no guarantee he is an answer).  If we really want to upgrade the PG spot then it's going to cost--and likely more than just Jones, Papa, and the Pel's pick (which is all anyone seems willing to offer).

 

Right now, I'd rather add Lin, Marshall, or someone like them and see what the trade deadline offers up.  I know some don't like Lin, but outside of his turnover issues, he's pretty solid for what we need.  You guys are probably right that Lou Williams gets a big pay day. 

JG - I do like CJ Watson or Rodney Stuckey. They would be perfect for what we need. We need someone who can competently run the 2nd unit when Harden sits and add some outside shooting when Harden is on the court. Plus they will be cheap so Morey can re-sign Beverley or keep cap flexibility so that he can make a deadline deal.

I cannot explain enough about how bad Lin would be for this team. Prior to the 1st game of the season (lakers vs rockets), Lin was asked if ever got a fair chance in Houston. Lin felt he did not. After Lin got benched for Ronnie Price, he stated he is a starter in this league no matter what his current team or previous teams thought. This does not sound like a guy who would be willing to come off of the bench and be a part of team.

On multiple occasions Lin complained about Kobe to the media. He complained about how much the ball was out of his hands in LA when he played with Kobe. He also complained that he did not get to shoot game winners (after Kobe got hurt Lin missed all of his game winning/ tying chances and shot 32% in the clutch). What will Lin do when Harden is dominating the ball and is making game winners? The idea of a player who can get white hot for a couple of weeks and can occasionally fill in for a starter sounds good, but when that player is out for himself, he could torpedo any plans the Rockets have for winning a championship.  

[thejohnnygold]

JG - I do like CJ Watson or Rodney Stuckey. They would be perfect for what we need. We need someone who can competently run the 2nd unit when Harden sits and add some outside shooting when Harden is on the court. Plus they will be cheap so Morey can re-sign Beverley or keep cap flexibility so that he can make a deadline deal.

I cannot explain enough about how bad Lin would be for this team. Prior to the 1st game of the season (lakers vs rockets), Lin was asked if ever got a fair chance in Houston. Lin felt he did not. After Lin got benched for Ronnie Price, he stated he is a starter in this league no matter what his current team or previous teams thought. This does not sound like a guy who would be willing to come off of the bench and be a part of team.

On multiple occasions Lin complained about Kobe to the media. He complained about how much the ball was out of his hands in LA when he played with Kobe. He also complained that he did not get to shoot game winners (after Kobe got hurt Lin missed all of his game winning/ tying chances and shot 32% in the clutch). What will Lin do when Harden is dominating the ball and is making game winners? The idea of a player who can get white hot for a couple of weeks and can occasionally fill in for a starter sounds good, but when that player is out for himself, he could torpedo any plans the Rockets have for winning a championship.  

 

Hmmm, I didn't think about that.  If that's all true then it does sound like a bad idea.  I don't envy Morey's job here.  Maybe he'll just pony up the money to send Nick Johnson to Steve Nash's PG camp and hope that helps  .

[majik19]

Hmmm, I didn't think about that.  If that's all true then it does sound like a bad idea.  I don't envy Morey's job here.  Maybe he'll just pony up the money to send Nick Johnson to Steve Nash's PG camp and hope that helps  .

We also need to send him to a shooting camp...

[majik19]

this might be a moved that won't cost much and could pay good dividends.........trade for Collison from Sac or maybe Hill from Indiana

Just to add a little fuel to the fire on Collison - there is a rumor about Sacramento and Rondo so if he goes there, maybe Collison will be available. 

[Willk]

Just to add a little fuel to the fire on Collison - there is a rumor about Sacramento and Rondo so if he goes there, maybe Collison will be available.

I wouldn't mind Collison.