115 replies to this topic

[rockets best fan]

@ thejohnnygold/TTDN

nobody is saying harden is the greatest thing since sliced bread. just that your grading curve is steep. I saw his faults just like you did, but considering what he was up against he had an outstanding year. JG I too am concerned about shooting percentage, but gave harden a pass because a man can get tired packing a franchise on his back for the first time. now if he still has the same problem next year then it's time to panic. I see his defense or lack there of (TTDN), but againI expect improvement next year on that front as well. don't the man get some credit for leading this team to the playoffs in his 1st season as alpha dog. do you think we make the playoffs without him? give credit where credit is due. YES I expect a better player next year, but for the 1st time around the block harden did just fine (IMO)

[timetodienow1234567]

Is it just me watching the Spurs/Warriors games? The team that wins hits those midrange jumpers more. Either Curry/Thompson or Parker

[timetodienow1234567]

I'm not advocating basing our offense on those but harden needs to be able to knock those shots down in order to take that next step

[Steven]

Harden is the greatest thing since slice bread.

[timetodienow1234567]

I like to tear my bread off in chunks actually.

[rockets best fan]

Harden is the greatest thing since slice bread.

     that's telling them.............I didn't want to be the one to say it but...........

[Steven]

Don't you have to consider all the times he got fouled an went to the line when looking at his shooting %? That probably raises his % close to 50%. Y'all are now just nitpicking. Nobody is perfect (except LeBron, the guy is going to go down as the greatest ever). 25/6/5. Those stats matter. Everything else is gravy.

[thejohnnygold]

I'm withholding my grade for Harden.  I feel like the voice of dissension, but I have a lot of concerns about his game--aside from the defense.

 

My biggest concern is his fg%.  There were far too many sub-standard shooting performances last year.  If memory serves, it was roughly 1 out of three games that he shot below 40%.  For our leader, that is not good.  We are relying on him night in and night out.  The occasional bad game is to be expected, but there were far too many.  I'm willing to concede every excuse that can be made--which is why I am waiting.  If this problem doesn't shift towards the positive next year then I think we have to re-evaluate Mr. Harden.

 

I have faith that things will turn for the better, but I also see a huge underlying problem with those 5-17 shooting performances.  In fairness, our offensive system didn't do much to help once defenses keyed into what we were doing and set out to stop it--there just didn't seem to be a back-up plan.

 

This is my original post.  If it didn't slather enough love on him then I'm sorry

 

I think my assessment is fair and in line with what you guys are saying.  It was a problem this year and I concede that every reason offered for it is valid.  Next year, if it persists, is when I will get really concerned.  The fact is, he put up roughly 27 bad games (and many of those were really bad) not counting the playoffs (I would have to track down the post where I counted them as I don't want to take the time to do it again).

 

I totally understand TS% and EFG%.  Those things are great and Harden put up great numbers in those categories.  Unfortunately, that largely relied on the referees--which makes me nervous.

 

For perspective, 674 of his 2,023 total points were made free throws.  That is 33%.  He shot 47.7% from the field after subtracting his three pointers.  That's not bad...until you realize that 627 of those 851 shots were in the paint.  He shot 33.6 from mid-range on 224 shots.

 

Again, this is his opportunity to take the lessons from this year and come back and be sooooo much better.  That is the best part.  IF he can do that then we are good--better than good.  On the flip side, if he cannot then we are in trouble.  NBA defenses will not allow him to keep doing the same things--they are too good for that.  He has got to adapt and learn how to better involve his teammates.

 

This is why my grade for him is on hold...until we can see which way this goes....I guess that's not fair since we are supposed to be grading this year.  OK, for this year, bearing everything in mind he gets an A.  That being said, this year's performance (including the defense) will not be good enough for an A next year.  High standards are a b!%@&.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Oh you think he will stop getting calls, now I understand your concern. Well if it makes you feel better, his shot chart looks better than Wade's in Wade's prime. http://stats.nba.com...&Season=2007-08

 

Considering how Wade is still considered an elite SG even to this day, I still think defense is the bigger concern in Harden's game. But I agree, Harden could start getting less calls one day so he should improve his shooting before that happens. And if by chance he improves his shooting while still getting the calls, then look out, his TS% will reach that astronomical Lebron/Durant efficiency status. 

[rockets best fan]

@thejohnnygold

question.............what grade would you give j-smith this year?  I can't wait for this one  you are so harsh on harden I just want to see how you do j-smith so I can have a reference on your grading curve. some times when you describe him to me you make it sound as if he has no faults. he had one of his best years in Atlanta this year.......what's his grade?

[timetodienow1234567]

I give josh smith an A for defense and a B for offense so an A- overall. I thought overall he had a better season than Harden because Harden was a liability on defense and regressed offensively as the season waned. Obviously Harden is a better player IMO, but smith had the better season

[timetodienow1234567]

You got to remember how bad that Hawks team actually is.

[Steven]

You got to remember how bad that Hawks team actually is.

Yea. An all-star C. A better PG then the Rockets have. A three point specialist. But yea this team is terrible. He had a C season at best. He got worse, his skills are eroding, and that's after he went from the number 2 option to the number one.

[timetodienow1234567]

Asik > horford
Lin = Teague
Parsons > korver

[thejohnnygold]

Wow, do I come across as harsh on Harden?  I guess I do to a degree--his defense, inconsistency, and what I call "offensive flopping" are all things I have a problem with.  For the record--I am glad he's a Rocket and think he is an excellent scorer with plenty of room to grow and mature into an elite player.  I'm not ready to anoint him yet, but he at least has the potential--which few players do.

 

Josh Smith?  Ha, I can feel you chomping at the bit on this one, RBF

 

I'm not blind.  I would be a fool to say he had a great year.  By great year, I mean one deserving of the max contract he seeks.  His 3 pt. shooting was below acceptable at 30% and his free throw shooting was atrocious.  We all know about the long two's at low fg% problem.  There's not much I can say that isn't mentioned earlier in the Josh Smith thread.  I'm afraid I'm not going to take the bait and give him a grade--feel free to put forth one yourself.

 

I think there is a lot of context and circumstance that goes into this big picture--I know we disagree on a lot of that--but to me it is relevant.  The bottom line is I think Smith has the goods and they aren't being put to use right now.  I believe Houston will be a match made in Heaven and we will get the best Josh Smith has to offer.  He's not perfect (and he's definitely not Lebron...but that's not fair to compare him to anyone) but I truly believe if Houston plugged him in and set him up to succeed he could legitimately find his way into the MVP conversation.  Yup, I said it.  M-V-P.  I don't think He would win it, but he would get recognition after posting a solid 18, 8 and 8 for the season while playing some solid defense with a couple of blocks and steals per game.

 

And for the record, I have always acknowledged all of his faults--look back on the posts--I don't wear rose-colored glasses.

 

Edit: typo

[miketheodio]

I'm not advocating basing our offense on those but harden needs to be able to knock those shots down in order to take that next step

of course, but one of those 12ft paint shots (tony parker's stop and pops or pick and pop or a derrick rose floater) is a weapon the rockets need. all guards need that shot in their bag of tricks. i wish people weren't so obsessed with 3s, FT's, and shots at the rim. i dont think taking a wide open 15-17 footer or a 10-12 foot shot is a terrible thing.

 

 

harden was great. new role as 1st option. did better than expected. i think he can be too reliant on refs and would rather go to the line than get the and1. although, i think that problem started happening more later in the season when he was getting tired.

 

id give him an A-

[thejohnnygold]

I agree with this.  It's one thing to recognize the inherent advantage of those shots...and another to blindly force them when the opposing defense is shutting it down and negating said advantage.

[rockets best fan]

Wow, do I come across as harsh on Harden?  I guess I do to a degree--his defense, inconsistency, and what I call "offensive flopping" are all things I have a problem with.  For the record--I am glad he's a Rocket and think he is an excellent scorer with plenty of room to grow and mature into an elite player.  I'm not ready to anoint him yet, but he at least has the potential--which few players do.

 

Josh Smith?  Ha, I can feel you chomping at the bit on this one, RBF

 

I'm not blind.  I would be a fool to say he had a great year.  By great year, I mean one deserving of the max contract he seeks.  His 3 pt. shooting was below acceptable at 30% and his free throw shooting was atrocious.  We all know about the long two's at low fg% problem.  There's not much I can say that isn't mentioned earlier in the Josh Smith thread.  I'm afraid I'm not going to take the bait and give him a grade--feel free to put forth one yourself.

 

I think there is a lot of context and circumstance that goes into this big picture--I know we disagree on a lot of that--but to me it is relevant.  The bottom line is I think Smith has the goods and they aren't being put to use right now.  I believe Houston will be a match made in Heaven and we will get the best Josh Smith has to offer.  He's not perfect (and he's definitely not Lebron...but that's not fair to compare him to anyone) but I truly believe if Houston plugged him in and set him up to succeed he could legitimately find his way into the MVP conversation.  Yup, I said it.  M-V-P.  I don't think He would win it, but he would get recognition after posting a solid 18, 8 and 8 for the season while playing some solid defense with a couple of blocks and steals per game.

 

And for the record, I have always acknowledged all of his faults--look back on the posts--I don't wear rose-colored glasses.

 

Edit: typo

dang..... couldn't get you to bite on that one huh  well I have no problem.....he gets a B+. he had a very good year for him......still don't mean I want him, but I can give credit where credit is due. I do agree with you he is not a max player. his faults are eroding his game (IMO). he is very good, but has maxed out his talent to me. he is now probably the best he is capable of being, but that's a debate for another day. I tell you what I still don't have a reference on your grading curve so lets try a neutral player......how about blake griffin. what is your grade for him?

[rockets best fan]

Asik > horford
Lin = Teague
Parsons > korver

asik>horford

lin<Teague

parson>korver

harden>lou Williams

our PF's< j-smith

at this point Teague is a better overall player than lin (IMO)

[Mason Khamvilay]

Lin = Teague imo