83 replies to this topic

[thejohnnygold]

Really, when you think about it, the lineups are a laundry list of possibilities.

 

Fast breaks: Lawson, Harden, Jones, Brewer, Capella or Howard

 

Defense: Bev, McDaniels, Howard, Ariza, and DMo

 

Offense: Harden, Lawson, Howard, Dmo, Ariza

 

Clutch: Harden, Lawson, DMo, Ariza, and Howard

 

Small Ball: Lawson, Harden, Howard/Dmo/Capella, Brewer, Ariza

 

Second Unit: Lawson, Jones, Brewer, Capella or DMo, Terry or McDaniels (the weak link)

 

Shooting: Harden, Ariza, Terry, Brewer or Lawson (weak link) and Howard/Dmo/Capella

 

I can keep going if you want to.

 

Is the season starting yet?

 

For "Offense", I'd go with Lawson, Thornton, Harden, D-Mo, and Dwight...possibly put Terry in Thornton's place.  Very few teams will have the horses to defend that grouping.

[majik19]

Motiejunas is the best PF on this team. 

 

You can spout Jones's numbers all day long, but he has consistently disappeared against top notch competition. Motiejunas at least competes (and his post-up game makes them work on the other end). Jones has the skills to make them work on the offensive end, but for some reason, he just gets covered up. 

 

I also don't necessarily buy the "all 4 other positions are good rebounders, so less for the PF." About half the games were played without Howard last year. Our rebounding suffered. The contested rebounding numbers match up well with what I saw in the games - we were frequently outmuscled on both ends of the floor when balls came off the rim. 

 

Of course, that can also be influenced by philosophy. We like to get out on the break, which means we somewhat abandon the defensive rebound, but that doesn't quite match up with the high rebounding numbers from the backcourt. 

 

I think Motiejunas and Jones are poor at boxing out. It may be a lack of strength... I'd find it hard to believe that a McHale coached team would have poor technique. Maybe it's an awareness thing? Hard to say. For Motiejunas especially, that is the only skill I would say he is below average at compared to other 4s. 

 

As far as Jones being traded, I think that will depend largely on Harrell's development. But yes, I think Morey will choose to pay Motiejunas and trade Jones. I'm not saying Jones is a dime-a-dozen, but a player with Motiejunas's skill set is much harder to find. 

[slick shoes]

Motiejunas is the best PF on this team. 

 

You can spout Jones's numbers all day long, but he has consistently disappeared against top notch competition. Motiejunas at least competes (and his post-up game makes them work on the other end). Jones has the skills to make them work on the offensive end, but for some reason, he just gets covered up. 

 

I also don't necessarily buy the "all 4 other positions are good rebounders, so less for the PF." About half the games were played without Howard last year. Our rebounding suffered. The contested rebounding numbers match up well with what I saw in the games - we were frequently outmuscled on both ends of the floor when balls came off the rim. 

 

Of course, that can also be influenced by philosophy. We like to get out on the break, which means we somewhat abandon the defensive rebound, but that doesn't quite match up with the high rebounding numbers from the backcourt. 

 

I think Motiejunas and Jones are poor at boxing out. It may be a lack of strength... I'd find it hard to believe that a McHale coached team would have poor technique. Maybe it's an awareness thing? Hard to say. For Motiejunas especially, that is the only skill I would say he is below average at compared to other 4s. 

 

As far as Jones being traded, I think that will depend largely on Harrell's development. But yes, I think Morey will choose to pay Motiejunas and trade Jones. I'm not saying Jones is a dime-a-dozen, but a player with Motiejunas's skill set is much harder to find. 

 

Hopefully the Chuck Wagon will give these guys some lessons in commanding your space and being an immovable object around the rim.

[majik19]

Hopefully the Chuck Wagon will give these guys some lessons in commanding your space and being an immovable object around the rim.

100% agree. 

[NorEastern]

100% agree. 

Chuckie is done. Sorry. And honestly he was never very good when compared to D-Mo and Capela. Layup drills anyone?

[rockets best fan]

Chuckie is done. Sorry. And honestly he was never very good when compared to D-Mo and Capela. Layup drills anyone?

while I will agree Chuck is DONE, however Chuck had his day. no he was never a star, but was a dependable defensive force back when we had nobody else to do the job. so don't be tryna smash on my boy   

[majik19]

Chuckie is done. Sorry. And honestly he was never very good when compared to D-Mo and Capela. Layup drills anyone?

I'm not saying that Chuck is going to play any productive minutes this year (and if he does, we're in trouble). It's more of the teaching aspect - boxing out, wide base, etc. Those are the things he did so well and he could teach. 

[cointurtlemoose]

I think Motiejunas and Jones are poor at boxing out. It may be a lack of strength... I'd find it hard to believe that a McHale coached team would have poor technique. Maybe it's an awareness thing? Hard to say. For Motiejunas especially, that is the only skill I would say he is below average at compared to other 4s.

 

I remember noticing that all season with all of our bigs. Howard doesn't necessarily need to box out a lot of time, but especially with the other guys, they just are not disciplined in boxing out. It doesn't strike me as a strength or ability thing.

[thenit]

I like both of our Pfs but Dmo is clearly better IMO

 

Put it this way, when Bev, Howard and Jones was injured,

 

Dmo was our defensive anchor in the paint and we had a really good record in that span. Obviously Harden carried the team but if Dmo was injured with the above players and you substitute Jones with dmo, do you think we would have played .500 ball ? We even had a good winning record if I recall correctly. 

 

I agree on JG, unlike Jones who would make the jaw dropping block, who saves a fg once every two quarters, Dmo plays like Asik, who methodically forces the opponent to shoot low percentage saving us a lot more points in the long run. He is also a good help defender etc.

 

I can't say who will have a better career, but if I would bet I would bet on Dmo. Jones will be a very good role player but I can't envision him becoming a max player or a star in this league while Dmo may not reach that status I believe his ceiling in a lot higher than Jones.

[slick shoes]

while I will agree Chuck is DONE, however Chuck had his day. no he was never a star, but was a dependable defensive force back when we had nobody else to do the job. so don't be tryna smash on my boy   

 

Preach! If you think we brought him back to be a starter or a 2nd unit guy, you need to pinch yourself. He has been brought in (keep in mind this is just MY opinion) to teach something that he is good at to some guys who are not so good at that thing. Added bonus that he is an ex Rocket and a really good guy at that. I see him happily accepting his new role and being a great mentor to our four spot.

[Willk]

I remember noticing that all season with all of our bigs. Howard doesn't necessarily need to box out a lot of time, but especially with the other guys, they just are not disciplined in boxing out. It doesn't strike me as a strength or ability thing.

This is my one compliant during the McHale era. It seems the team has poor fundamentals when boxing out. They rely entirely on athleticism to get rebounds. Even when the rockets were playing Asik and Howard together, the rockets were out rebounded because the other team actually boxed out. Hopefully, Hayes will help the young players learn how to box out better.

[marbony81110]

I like D.Mo, but I like T.Jones more. I don't care who starts as long as T.Jones is paired with Ty Lawson. Jones will feast on opponents with his ability to cut to the basket and finish to go along with great athleticism.

I think I'm in the minority in thinking of D.Mo as not a true 7 footer. He gets beat up and overpowered on the defensive end even though he has good positioning most of the time and seems to know what he should be doing. He just doesn't have the physical ability needed to excel on the defensive end. He isn't bad but isn't good either, especially for a guy with his height.

He offensive game is good. He is a very good back to the basket player. He would thrive more on the block with set plays. He is not a cutter/finisher. He can do it to some degree but that isn't his game. That's T.Jones' game. Both players need to develop their games another level. As an overall player I think T.Jones get the nod in my opinion. However, it's not like there is some big gap between the two. They are almost interchangeable and lineups should dictate who plays when. Again, as long as T.Jones is paired with Lawson and possibly Capela I think the Rockets will do absolute damage to anyone inside on offense. 

[marbony81110]

This is my one compliant during the McHale era. It seems the team has poor fundamentals when boxing out. They rely entirely on athleticism to get rebounds. Even when the rockets were playing Asik and Howard together, the rockets were out rebounded because the other team actually boxed out. Hopefully, Hayes will help the young players learn how to box out better.

I think boxing out was an issue, but it seemed like every big was going for the block and there wasn't anybody left to box out. Think about it. How many times did we see Dwight and Jones/D.Mo go for the block with maybe only Ariza or Harden standing just outside the paint watching the ball. I think if the players practiced with Howard going for the block and the other big(s)/player(s) box out and grab the rebound things will be a lot better. They weren't a bad rebounding team last year, but they could have been dominant.

[thejohnnygold]

I like D.Mo, but I like T.Jones more. I don't care who starts as long as T.Jones is paired with Ty Lawson. Jones will feast on opponents with his ability to cut to the basket and finish to go along with great athleticism.

I think I'm in the minority in thinking of D.Mo as not a true 7 footer. He gets beat up and overpowered on the defensive end even though he has good positioning most of the time and seems to know what he should be doing. He just doesn't have the physical ability needed to excel on the defensive end. He isn't bad but isn't good either, especially for a guy with his height.

He offensive game is good. He is a very good back to the basket player. He would thrive more on the block with set plays. He is not a cutter/finisher. He can do it to some degree but that isn't his game. That's T.Jones' game. Both players need to develop their games another level. As an overall player I think T.Jones get the nod in my opinion. However, it's not like there is some big gap between the two. They are almost interchangeable and lineups should dictate who plays when. Again, as long as T.Jones is paired with Lawson and possibly Capela I think the Rockets will do absolute damage to anyone inside on offense. 

 

Did something change?  Being a "true 7 footer" means you are actually 7 feet tall and not exaggerated on paper (like Hakeem always was and Dwight often is).  It doesn't imply how you play the game.

 

I know my wacky conspiracy theories rarely go over well, but we never hear the coaches shouting to, "box out".  We never hear them gripe about the rebounding to the press.  We don't hear anything.  Is it possible that Morey's Data Dungeon has crunched up some figures that point to a slightly better overall effect by focusing less on the box out?  I say, "yes", because these coaches and players are not idiots who all somehow forgot one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.

 

I'm starting to think that (most) everyone who prefers Jones is from a younger generation and did not get to see first hand the power of a solid post presence.  Believe it or not, you whipper-snappers  , teams used to create space for three point shots by having a dominant big man who sucked in the defense.  These days it's all drive and dish, but there isn't a coach in the league who wouldn't love to have an offensive player like that.

 

Why mess with all the screens, picks, rolls, diversions, etc. when you can just throw it into the low block and let Player X go to work knowing that he converts nearly 60%, draws fouls, and can hit team mates/cutters for open shots?

 

I also disagree with all this talk about D-Mo not being athletic enough.  He may not have the world's best vertical leap, but outside of that he is very athletic and getting stronger every year.  Let's not forget he is but 24 years old (25 in September).  I believe that (almost) all those who prefer Jones will be singing a different tune by mid-season (if not sooner).  Dunkin' Donuts will become a corporate sponsor just so they can capitalize off of D-Mo's nickname: Dunkin' Donuts (obviously).

[Cooper]

For being 7ft tall DMo is incredibly athletic and smooth, Jones looks more athletic with his putbacks and blocked shots but dmo does a lot of those things just being big. Dmo isn't dennis rodman on the boards but more than adequate both he and jones rebounding totals suffer a bit when playing with Howard too. Ultimately I think DMo will see more minutes since he can play center against most teams but jones will get plenty of time  and be an important contributor.

[marbony81110]

Did something change?  Being a "true 7 footer" means you are actually 7 feet tall and not exaggerated on paper (like Hakeem always was and Dwight often is).  It doesn't imply how you play the game.

 

I know my wacky conspiracy theories rarely go over well, but we never hear the coaches shouting to, "box out".  We never hear them gripe about the rebounding to the press.  We don't hear anything.  Is it possible that Morey's Data Dungeon has crunched up some figures that point to a slightly better overall effect by focusing less on the box out?  I say, "yes", because these coaches and players are not idiots who all somehow forgot one of the most fundamental aspects of the game.

 

I'm starting to think that (most) everyone who prefers Jones is from a younger generation and did not get to see first hand the power of a solid post presence.  Believe it or not, you whipper-snappers  , teams used to create space for three point shots by having a dominant big man who sucked in the defense.  These days it's all drive and dish, but there isn't a coach in the league who wouldn't love to have an offensive player like that.

 

Why mess with all the screens, picks, rolls, diversions, etc. when you can just throw it into the low block and let Player X go to work knowing that he converts nearly 60%, draws fouls, and can hit team mates/cutters for open shots?

 

I also disagree with all this talk about D-Mo not being athletic enough.  He may not have the world's best vertical leap, but outside of that he is very athletic and getting stronger every year.  Let's not forget he is but 24 years old (25 in September).  I believe that (almost) all those who prefer Jones will be singing a different tune by mid-season (if not sooner).  Dunkin' Donuts will become a corporate sponsor just so they can capitalize off of D-Mo's nickname: Dunkin' Donuts (obviously).

The Rockets have Harden and now Lawson. They will never simply feed the ball into the post. Maybe a few times a game. That is something Dwight and D.Mo will have to get used to. D.Mo is a good player, but with Lawson and Harden running the show T.Jones will be more effective. I don't think this has anything to do with the opinion of a younger generation. Again, D.Mo is good and so is Jones. D.Mo is an athlete but is not athletic as you think or see in other NBA players. He will never out jump another big or overpower them. He is a crafty player. Not an athletic player. There is nothing wrong with that.

In a lineup with Lawson or Harden, T.Jones will be more effective on O because he is a better cutter/slasher and finisher. D.Mo has a better post up game and probably vision. Neither of them are stout on defense. D.Mo is bigger so he can slow down or on occasion control bigs. T.Jones is smaller, faster and more athletic so he better playing D outside the paint, but can also shift inside the box. 

Each player is an asset to the team. Their minutes will more than likely be pretty close. I do think T.Jones will see more playing time do the fact that some teams really love the small ball lineup. T.Jones is a much better option here. 

[marbony81110]

For being 7ft tall DMo is incredibly athletic and smooth, Jones looks more athletic with his putbacks and blocked shots but dmo does a lot of those things just being big. Dmo isn't dennis rodman on the boards but more than adequate both he and jones rebounding totals suffer a bit when playing with Howard too. Ultimately I think DMo will see more minutes since he can play center against most teams but jones will get plenty of time  and be an important contributor.

How is D.Mo incredibly athletic? I agree about him being smooth tho.

[thejohnnygold]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!   

 

Look, D-Mo may not be DeAndre Jordan athletic....but most NBA players aren't...which is what makes him special.  Watch the film.  D-Mo is plenty athletic.  The bulk he is putting on will hinder his vertical while aiding in his post defense.  He is still quick, agile, and coordinated....or as I like to call it: athletic.

 

As for the Rockets "never simply feeding the ball into the post...maybe a few times a game".    What?!?!?

 

There is no way a team with (arguably) the best post player in the league is going to ignore that.  Even Michael Jordan went into the post to get buckets.  Kobe too.  The Golden State "We Are the Future of Basketball" Warriors used Shaun Livingston and Mo Speights in the post (probably David Lee too).

 

There will be post ups.  I'd say no less than 10-15 per game for D-Mo.  Personally, I'd like to see 20.

[Cooper]

How is D.Mo incredibly athletic? I agree about him being smooth tho.

Hes 7ft tall and not a complete stiff, there aren't 3 more athletic 7fters in the nba. being in the top 5 of anything world wide sounds pretty incredible to me.

[rockets best fan]

The Rockets have Harden and now Lawson. They will never simply feed the ball into the post. Maybe a few times a game. That is something Dwight and D.Mo will have to get used to. D.Mo is a good player, but with Lawson and Harden running the show T.Jones will be more effective. I don't think this has anything to do with the opinion of a younger generation. Again, D.Mo is good and so is Jones. D.Mo is an athlete but is not athletic as you think or see in other NBA players. He will never out jump another big or overpower them. He is a crafty player. Not an athletic player. There is nothing wrong with that.

In a lineup with Lawson or Harden, T.Jones will be more effective on O because he is a better cutter/slasher and finisher. D.Mo has a better post up game and probably vision. Neither of them are stout on defense. D.Mo is bigger so he can slow down or on occasion control bigs. T.Jones is smaller, faster and more athletic so he better playing D outside the paint, but can also shift inside the box. 

Each player is an asset to the team. Their minutes will more than likely be pretty close. I do think T.Jones will see more playing time do the fact that some teams really love the small ball lineup. T.Jones is a much better option here. 

I agree T-Jones is the better option with Harden/Lawson on the floor. while I will agree D-Mo has good post moves, trying to make him sound like the best post player in the league is way off base. in a half court setting D-Mo is better than Jones, however both bring talent to the table that will be needed if we are to win the championship. they are both our players and we need both. I expect their minutes to be similar and affected by the lineup the opposing team is running. T-Jones will probably start because D-Mo is not as good of an option with D12. neither of these guys is a defensive juggernaut, but both have players they are effective against. just because D-Mo is a 7 footer who can walk and chew gum at the same time does not make him athletic. he has slow foot speed and can't jump that high. his game is not based on athletic ability, it's based on the proper use of his height. while he has good upper body strength, his lower body is still weak. that's why he gets pushed around like he's in a pinball machine. I like D-Mo, he still has a way to go in his development. listening to some of the posters here I swear they were talking about Duncan