Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

@  majik19 : (13 October 2015 - 09:09 PM) Apparently we claimed Arsalan Kazemi off waivers from the Hawks today... yet another undersized (6'7") power forward for Morey's cupboard.
@  Mario Peña : (10 October 2015 - 01:12 PM) If your part if the Red94 Fantasy Basketball League check the thread to vote for the date and time for the draft event. Thanks y'all!
@  jorgeaam : (07 October 2015 - 08:47 PM) Guys we need 1 more owner for the Red94 fantasy league, if interested please comment on the post in the fantasy basketball thread
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 06:50 PM) Kobe ranked one spot higher than Ariza? Is this based on legacy or...??
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 04:13 PM) It was hard to keep up with both the Astros and Rockets at the same time. Should be interesting on Thursday with the Texans and Astros on simultaneously.
@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Loving that, hope he hits 30 PPG this year
@  thejohnnygold : (06 October 2015 - 06:15 PM) Someone is feeling confident :) : LINK
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 05:54 PM) 10 Teams done, will need 2 more
@  Mario Peña : (06 October 2015 - 02:35 PM) Alright guys, if anyone is interested in joining the Red94 fantasy basketball league we could use one more player to get us to 10 teams (or three to get us to 12 teams). Just check the thread in the Fantasy Basketball forum. Thanks!
@  thejohnnygold : (05 October 2015 - 06:23 PM) I use leaguepass here in Austin with no problems...
@  skip 2 my lou : (05 October 2015 - 03:14 PM) Hey fellas, I'm a rocket fan but I live in the heart of Dallas. Does anybody know if I buy NBA Leaguepass if it's too close to be subject to blackouts?
@  Losthief : (02 October 2015 - 02:24 AM) tks jg
@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com
@  slick shoes : (23 September 2015 - 06:37 PM) kind of late in the day but NBATV is broadcasting classis Rockets games all day today.
@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) http://bleacherrepor...ist-after-crash
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2015 - 04:36 PM) A good article from Blinebury talking about when Hakeem and Moses used to play in the park. LINK

Photo

On contention


  • Please log in to reply
84 replies to this topic

#1 Red94

Red94

    Senior Member

  • Administrators
  • 1,415 posts

    Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:27 PM

    New post: On contention
    By: Forrest Walker

    There are about four questions that people ask over the course of the NBA season. “How does he compare to Jordan” is probably number one, asked about seemingly half the league, with “Will this team make the playoffs soon” at a close number two. The last two, in no particular order are “Will this player get traded” and “Is this team a contender.” Well, Houston’s more or less a playoff lock now, nobody on the team is comparable to Jordan, and everyone is always on the trading block, so that leaves the last question to burn in the minds of Rockets fans. But what makes a contender in the first place? What’s the rubric there, and how do we use it to judge Houston?

    To jump to the end a bit, the answer is no. The Rockets aren’t a true contender. (They could potentially win it all but it would take a few major things to swing their way. Some people call these teams “sub-contenders.”) They were in the same boat last year, and probably aren’t greatly different in terms of overall team strength. They’ve changed out parts but what they haven’t changed out are the pieces that a team needs to win it all: stars, elite coaching and cohesive, skilled role-players.

    Do you want to know my theory of what makes a true contender? Probably you do, or you’d have stopped reading by now. I briefly outlined it in a recent podcast, and it’s worth a longer look. It’s really a simple mathematical equation. You need at least three points. Star level players are worth one point each. An elite coach and an elite supporting cast are each worth one point each. The math is really that simple. The process of getting those three points, of course, is anything but.

    The Rockets, as with a number of teams, are stuck at two points. Those two points are James Harden and Dwight Howard. The supporting cast last season was quite good, but not on the same level as the clockwork that was the San Antonio Spurs or the blue collar perfection of the Pacers (when they were good). That cause was also hindered by not having an elite coach. Kevin McHale isn’t elite. In fact, he was so loathe to use his bench depth that he may have pulled the Rockets back from contention a bit.

    This explains why the Spurs are always right there: Tony Parker is a legitimate star, even if Manu Ginobili and Tim Duncan have slid a bit. Gregg Popovich is a top three NBA coach of all time, and their supporting case is like alien technology so advanced that it seems like magic. Heck, with Tim playing like a star, the Spurs may have achieved the elusive four-star team, which is basically unstoppable. Oh, and look what happened. The Heat, with their three stars initially, bulldozed their way in. It’s largely overlooked, but Erik Spoelstra evolved into an elite coach for that team as Dwyane Wade faded.

    The most frightening thing about this metric is that it paints the Dallas Mavericks as potential contenders. Dirk is probably still a star, Rick Carlisle is a top three coach right now, and their supporting cast might be great. If any year has looked like a potential repeat of 2011 for Dallas, it’s this season. It’ll be a roll of the dice, but if Dirk and the role players click particularly well, Houston could have a realistic shot at the conference finals and still end up being the worst team in Texas.

    Houston has a similar hope to Dallas, which is that the role players just get it. It’s possible, especially given the number of prospects Houston is bringing in. (And that like Dallas, the coaching won’t be improving… but for different reasons) There are more veterans, too, like Trevor Ariza, who will somehow be a boon to the team, despite some hard feelings from last time he wore Rockets red. General manager Daryl Morey is surely planning a trade this season, and the main question is whether he’ll land that elusive third star or upgrade the supporting cast into an elite squad. Either way, Houston wants that third point this season, and they might just get it. If we’re really lucky, this might be the year we get to see the Rockets lose later than the first round.


    • 0

    #2 rockets best fan

    rockets best fan

      glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left

    • Members
    • PipPipPipPipPipPip
    • 4,125 posts
    • Locationhouston

    Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:07 PM

    @Forrest Walker

    really good write up and I mostly agree. we could win the championship, but things have to break our way. I also agree we are very close to being unstoppable by adding the third point in your math equation. I guess the only real point I disagree with is Dallas is better than us. while I believe they might be in the boat with us, I believe their supporting cast is not yet good enough to compensate for the drop off on Dirk. Dirk still puts up good numbers, but isn't the player he was during their championship run IMO. I am in total agreement on McHale. since most here already know how I feel I won't waste space bashing a hole in his qualifications to lead this group. he's unfit an I'll leave it at that. our hope IMO rest in the acquisition of a third star level player. we have a nice supporting cast for a 3 star team, but are just short of the necessary reinforcements for a two star team minus coaching influence. 


    • 0

    you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


    #3 Buckko

    Buckko

      Senior Member

    • Members
    • PipPipPipPipPip
    • 1,636 posts

      Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:39 PM

      The mavs lost key sharpshooting this offseason, along with the fact their defense will be porous at best, and that's with the unlikely fact Tyson remains healthy all season, I don't see them as a top 4 team.
      • 0

      #4 thenit

      thenit

        Advanced Member

      • Members
      • PipPipPipPip
      • 671 posts

        Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:54 PM

        I think if we add a third star or a 6th man playmaker off the bench we will go from pretender to contender


        • 0

        #5 Jatman20

        Jatman20

          Junior Member

        • Members
        • PipPipPip
        • 222 posts

          Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:00 PM

          I agree with you Buckko on Dallas....they have a big flaw at two starting spots (C and PG). Knicks couldn't get Felton out of town quick enough; and that's not because of the gun/weapons charge. It's because they refer to him as "fat Felton". Tyson is rarely healthy. Maverick backups are suspect at best. Richard Jefferson, Aminu, and Jameer Nelson are God-aweful. Jameer Nelson reportedly told a player not to play defense on him while they past mid-court in a game two years ago I believe. I can't remember who the player was......was it Beverley or Lillaird?

          Rocket core is still Good. 1) Working out the kinks with the pairing of D12 with the group last year took much of the early months of last season. Experimenting with Asik/D12 in the starting lineup slowed the process. 2) Ariza will have the same role with us that he had with Washington so the transition shouldn't be that extreme. 3) Defense will be the theme this year (defense travels-road games) with D12/TJ/Beverley more comfortable in the system and addition of Ariza with Harden (team USA report Harden is a good defender) taking offense to criticism of his "D" last year; will focus on keeping track of his man!!!! Saw Harden play "King of the Hill" vs Durant and Paul George. I was impressed. Harden DRtg of 107 is good in iso defense and vs post-up. It's ball watching and losing his man that kills his rep.....and some PnR "D". This year that changes.
          Last year all points per game averaged together:D12/Harden/Parsons/TJ/Bev/Lin=95.1 pts/game. This year I project D12 (20)/Harden(25.5)/Ariza (16)/ TJ (16)/ Bev (13)/DMo (8)=98.5......Papanikolaou will get his (7-8 p at least) Nick Johnson will play ave to slightly better than ave "D" and get his 7-8 p Canaan will get his 9 p. Depending on rotation/mins.....anything from Troy/Covington/Dorsey/Capela/Ish/Adrien will be a plus.
          • 1

          #6 Jatman20

          Jatman20

            Junior Member

          • Members
          • PipPipPip
          • 222 posts

            Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:27 PM

            On paper we don't contend for a championship......but The Rockets won't play on paper. Losing Kelvin Sampson did effect the team last year. It's do or die time for coach McHale.
            • 0

            #7 thejohnnygold

            thejohnnygold

              Veteran

            • Moderators
            • 4,133 posts
            • LocationAustin, TX

            Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:18 AM

            I agree with you Buckko on Dallas....they have a big flaw at two starting spots (C and PG). Knicks couldn't get Felton out of town quick enough; and that's not because of the gun/weapons charge. It's because they refer to him as "fat Felton". Tyson is rarely healthy. Maverick backups are suspect at best. Richard Jefferson, Aminu, and Jameer Nelson are God-aweful. Jameer Nelson reportedly told a player not to play defense on him while they past mid-court in a game two years ago I believe. I can't remember who the player was......was it Beverley or Lillaird?

            Rocket core is still Good. 1) Working out the kinks with the pairing of D12 with the group last year took much of the early months of last season. Experimenting with Asik/D12 in the starting lineup slowed the process. 2) Ariza will have the same role with us that he had with Washington so the transition shouldn't be that extreme. 3) Defense will be the theme this year (defense travels-road games) with D12/TJ/Beverley more comfortable in the system and addition of Ariza with Harden (team USA report Harden is a good defender) taking offense to criticism of his "D" last year; will focus on keeping track of his man!!!! Saw Harden play "King of the Hill" vs Durant and Paul George. I was impressed. Harden DRtg of 107 is good in iso defense and vs post-up. It's ball watching and losing his man that kills his rep.....and some PnR "D". This year that changes.
            Last year all points per game averaged together:D12/Harden/Parsons/TJ/Bev/Lin=95.1 pts/game. This year I project D12 (20)/Harden(25.5)/Ariza (16)/ TJ (16)/ Bev (13)/DMo (8)=98.5......Papanikolaou will get his (7-8 p at least) Nick Johnson will play ave to slightly better than ave "D" and get his 7-8 p Canaan will get his 9 p. Depending on rotation/mins.....anything from Troy/Covington/Dorsey/Capela/Ish/Adrien will be a plus.

             

            Nice post, Jatman20.

             

            I mostly agree with your projections for next year's scoring.  I think Ariza will wind up 2-3 points lower and Jones might wind up 2-3 points higher.

             

            If Adrien and Dorsey can clean the glass, play decent D, and finish around the rim--which I believe they can--we'll be solid at the C/PF positions.

             

            I'm very interested to see if Jones has improved his 3 pt. shooting.  


            • 0

            #8 Buckko

            Buckko

              Senior Member

            • Members
            • PipPipPipPipPip
            • 1,636 posts

              Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:00 AM

              I would say jones at 15 and ariza at 14 with nick Johnson not getting more than few. Daniels and Cannan will give around 15-20 together.
              • 0

              #9 RollingWave

              RollingWave

                Advanced Member

              • Members
              • PipPipPipPip
              • 506 posts

                Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:05 AM



                It's much easier to miss the playoff in the west, someone's gonna be a 48-50 game winning 9th seed this year, and given where the Rockets are at right now it's hard to say that they are surely not going to be that unfortunate team.

                As for Dallas, once you account for coaching a lot of their problem becomes less significant. They have repeatedly made weird lineups work in the past few years, hard to see why they wont' this year. Tyson Chandler and Dirk's health is the only real concern, but hey, it's a contract year. If any year is a good bet for him to be healthy this is it.


                • 0

                #10 Buckko

                Buckko

                  Senior Member

                • Members
                • PipPipPipPipPip
                • 1,636 posts

                  Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:24 AM

                  Well what we lost in playmaking, we gain in shooting, defense, rebounding, and better chemistry. I can't see us missing the playoffs. You could argue that might be the blazers since they were extremely lucky with health last year and blake is a downgrade from Moe IMO. Being a team that relied so heavily on their starters, any injury could be a disaster. The suns loss Channing frye who was key to stretching the floor for their guards to work. The grizzlies could be better health permitting, so could the nuggets getting gallinari,McGee back, couple great picks, affalo. The nuggets are by far the deepest team in the league. GSW could be better or worse with the health of that team so unpredictable.
                  • 0

                  #11 RollingWave

                  RollingWave

                    Advanced Member

                  • Members
                  • PipPipPipPip
                  • 506 posts

                    Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:24 AM



                    Pretty much every team except the top 3 need something to pan out their way to make the playoff, last year the Rockets were relatively lucky in that when their players go down they were still quiet effective. it's not a given that this is the case going forward.

                    Essentially, the Rockets need some of their kids panning out to make the playoff, if all of them bombs they're in some serious trouble. To really get to the next level they also need Jones to reach close to his peak and Harden to play D, both could happen , or it could not, I'm fairly confident that Jones will be a good complimentary PF for a contending team when he's 27-28, I'm not confident that he will be at 24.

                    Canaan need to be effective here, Lin played 2000 minutes last year, it's not entirely obvious is you can really get 1000 min of effective play from Canaan and Johnson or 2000 min of effective play from both . just consider this little tibit, of the guys drafted in Canaan's class there was only 2 guys who played more than 1000 min of relatively effective ball last year in the second round, in the draft before that, I count maybe 4 second rounder who's had that sort of effectiveness by their 2nd year. in the year before that, only 1 guy has really remained a solid rotation player (Lance, Landry Fields was pretty effective for his first couple year than really bombed.)

                    Roughly 2-5 2nd rounder end up being effective rotation player in every draft is about right, so it's not exactly a high probability that you have *2* of them both end up being good in back to back drafts.


                    • 0

                    #12 Buckko

                    Buckko

                      Senior Member

                    • Members
                    • PipPipPipPipPip
                    • 1,636 posts

                      Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:29 AM

                      Well the rockets are the ones making most of those successful picks in the 2nd round and as long as the player can defend or shoot, they can be effective. The rockets were very unlucky when it came to injury last year, law of averages pan out and they should be healthier.
                      • 0

                      #13 Cooper

                      Cooper

                        Senior Member

                      • Members
                      • PipPipPipPipPip
                      • 1,290 posts

                        Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:01 AM

                        We're definitely a team that would need to catch a few breaks to be in the finals, hard to imagine missing the playoffs but the difference between 4 and 9 won't be very big similar to last year. I beleive we are a lot better balanced than the mavs or grizz and more likely to be healthy than GS with bogut/lee/curry usually missing significant time. The blazers seem awfully similar to us two stars some decent guys like batum and lopez and unproven talent off the bench. Likely a toss up again for us and them in the 4-5 slot. nuggies, pellies and suns should be fun to watch but probably come up short of the post season.


                        • 0

                        #14 Willk

                        Willk

                          Junior Member

                        • Members
                        • PipPipPip
                        • 314 posts

                          Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:25 AM

                          Nice post, Jatman20.

                           

                          I mostly agree with your projections for next year's scoring.  I think Ariza will wind up 2-3 points lower and Jones might wind up 2-3 points higher.

                           

                          If Adrien and Dorsey can clean the glass, play decent D, and finish around the rim--which I believe they can--we'll be solid at the C/PF positions.

                           

                          I'm very interested to see if Jones has improved his 3 pt. shooting.  

                          Another thing that I am looking forward to seeing is a much more physical team. One of my favorite follows on twitter, Harwood Paroxysm, stated that this off season,"the rockets became bad a**es on the cheap."


                          • 0

                          #15 thejohnnygold

                          thejohnnygold

                            Veteran

                          • Moderators
                          • 4,133 posts
                          • LocationAustin, TX

                          Posted 13 August 2014 - 02:55 AM

                          Another thing that I am looking forward to seeing is a much more physical team. One of my favorite follows on twitter, Harwood Paroxysm, stated that this off season,"the rockets became bad a**es on the cheap."

                           

                          I like the sound of this  :)


                          • 0

                          #16 rockets best fan

                          rockets best fan

                            glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left

                          • Members
                          • PipPipPipPipPipPip
                          • 4,125 posts
                          • Locationhouston

                          Posted 13 August 2014 - 05:17 AM

                          @Cooper

                          we pretty much see the west stacking up the same way. however since I expect us to improve through trade sometime between now and the trade deadline I'm projecting us higher. I think we can get the 3 seed for a couple of reasons. 1. depending on the player we acquire and his ability to impact our play it will raise us to another level. and 2. some are in panic mode because we lost Lin, Asik and Parsons, however IMO outside of Parsons both Lin and Asik didn't get the job done last year and are easily replaced. Parsons has been nicely replaced by Ariza.

                           

                          Lin was to inconsistent and Asik to full of doo doo :lol:. bottom line was Asik sat out dang near half a season with what I think was a fake injury. though he did help us when he finally got his head out of his butt his impact is widely overblown because we played most of the year without him. on Lin what I don't get with some is ( if you find that something's not working how do you get worst from changing it. I doubt Canaan can do a worse job of backup PG than Lin, but even if he does was it wrong to try something other than Lin since we knew that situation wasn't working? we were never going to win consistently depending on Lin's inconsistent abilities. so what did we really lose? Parsons.......that's it IMO. I promise I won't be losing sleep over the departure of Casspi, Hamilton or any of the other castoffs. they weren't getting the job done. it was time to trim the fat. we are a leaner running machine IMO. we have been grooming this cast of youngsters within our system for awhile now to assume the roles we will introduce them to this year. just like I said at the beginning of last year about T-Jones and D-Mo.....we need to know what we have been working on. if we truly believe in our developmental system at what point are we going to start using it? we have invested time money and energy in these recruits. when do we check the return on investment? Morey has shown me he has a keen eye for talent. lets stick them out there and see what happens. my point is we lost little from last years team by trimming the fat. the new recruits can't IMO be any worse than the last ban who fail to produce what we needed. at worse we should be able to match last years bench production because last year we had no bench   


                          • 0

                          you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                          #17 Journeymany

                          Journeymany

                            Rookie

                          • Members
                          • PipPip
                          • 54 posts

                            Posted 13 August 2014 - 08:08 AM

                            I pretty much agree with the OP - though I would say the big question re: the Mavs is - is Dirk still able to produce at a 'star' level? If so, they are slightly stronger than us at present because their role players are more NBA-proved than ours. You can talk about how many points / how much defense they'll produce as much as you want, but the simple fact is, right now no-one has any concrete evidence how they'll pan out in the big league. For us to challenge, we would need a really good trade.

                             

                            Right now, I see us as a 5-6 seed - basically a bit weaker than where we were last year. @rbf I know you value Lin about as much as a bag of chips, but the fact is his level of production off the bench is actually not that easy to replace when you look around the league. There are not many bench players who can generate their own offence without good offensive schemes around them (let's not get started on coaching..................). There are plenty of players around the league who have been in the league for years and will probably stay in the league, who do (and will continue to do) a significantly worse job than Lin did. I know it's hard for you to accept though  ;) On that topic, it's a big shame we couldn't get AB back as he can definitely provide a bench spark, but I doubt he'd want to come back a 4th time or whatever it is. One further point is that Morey's eye for talent is what brought us Casspi, Hamilton and Garcia last season so better hope he's made some upgrades since then  :lol:

                             

                            Anyway. I'm fairly chill about all this because whatever trades and issues are going on, life is ONE HUNDRED BILLION TIMES better in the NBA than it is for my team in the EPL, Southampton. Last year we had the most exciting young team in English football, players who had grown up with the team, more talent coming through - and that has all been destroyed because the big market teams are able to swoop in, offer salaries 4-5 times what we can afford, and basically tear the heart out of the team. The EPL is a closed shop cartel of a few big teams siphoning up the best players and everyone else is basically a minor-league team swimming like crazy just to stay in the league. When the team that finished 8/20 in the league last year has 1500-1 odds to win it, you know something is rotten.

                             

                            So, compared to that, everyone here should be like  :wub:  :)  :lol:  :D  :wub: . We still have a team that will be genuinely going for the title - not as one of the favorites, but with better than 1500-1 odds. Salary caps are good. Be happy  B)


                            • 0

                            #18 Steven

                            Steven

                              Veteran

                            • Members
                            • PipPipPipPipPipPip
                            • 2,008 posts

                              Posted 13 August 2014 - 08:31 AM

                              Journeymany, when your Saints selling that French CM to my Spurs?

                              And thanks for Poch as well. ;)

                              Edited by Steven, 13 August 2014 - 08:32 AM.

                              • 0

                              #19 Red94

                              Red94

                                Senior Member

                              • Administrators
                              • 1,415 posts

                                Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:39 AM

                                The rest of the league sees Parsons/Ariza as a loss, but I see it as a net gain.  The big question will be whether Dorsey/Johnson can replace Asik/Lin, and whether either of the young power forwards make the next big jump.


                                • 0

                                #20 rockets best fan

                                rockets best fan

                                  glad you're on board, but I been on this boat since it left

                                • Members
                                • PipPipPipPipPipPip
                                • 4,125 posts
                                • Locationhouston

                                Posted 13 August 2014 - 01:58 PM

                                @Journeymany

                                incorrect......I value Lin about as much as a stale bag of chips :lol: I disagree he is hard to replace. Lin got so bad in parts of last year I found myself cringing every time he touch the ball. Lin average 2/3 in assist to T/O ratio last year. that means more T/O than assist. his shooting percentage was also down. so basically he was turning the ball over and when he wasn't doing that he was tossing up enough bricks to build a house. it's not that hard to replace that.


                                • 0

                                you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)





                                1 user(s) are reading this topic

                                0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users