151 replies to this topic

[rocketrick]

No one, I mean no one, puts winning above getting paid reasonably. Even the Dirk's and Tim's, despite taking pay cuts, still get paid reasonably..especially since they've been earning millions already in the past. Parsons is only just entering the millions territory.

Like I said, I totally disagree with your premise that money is always more important than a chance at winning rings.

I'm just responding to what you said specifically in your comment.

[rocketrick]

While I did acknowledge that some players DO care more about rings than money, it's often veterans that already made ample money through the years, or stars that supplement significant income through endoresements. So even when they do care more about rings than money, name me one person that has sacrificed 10's of millions in a single year to pursue rings? It's often only shaving off a couple of million here or there in a single year to alleviate some cap space.

You actually did not acknowledge that some players do care more about rings than money, except, in your response above sort of in my opinion. Not that it matters. Nobody is absolutely right or wrong here. Just pointing out semantics.

Secondly, Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki have given up tens of millions of dollars over their career in pursuit of rings. Nowitzki this season could easily have earned a Bosh type contract but he's committed to being a Maverick for life and chose to give Cuban more leeway with the salary cap. Good for Nowitzki. However, Nowitzki just signed a 3 year, $30 million contract and Cuban is paying Parsons $45 million over those same 3 years. I wonder if Nowitzki, if he knew in advance that Cuban would use the extra money on Parsons, would have committed to such a big paycut?

By the way, Parsons is quoted on Mark Berman's radio show as saying he considers himself to be a Max Franchise player and that he wanted to be treated as a Max Franchise guy.

I enjoyed having Parsons on our team and he was clearly one of my top 2-3 players. But I never saw him as a Max Franchise player, not yet. Good for him, he deserved his payday and we move on. The Rockets clearly made the right choice in choosing not to become the second act of the Orlando Magic when D12 was hamstrung by having overpaid players surrounding him that basically choked off any possibility of meaningful trades and opportunities to win rings. That is precisely what would have happened if the Rockets matched Parsons. He had a basically non-tradeable contract so the Rockets would have been married to D12, Harden and Parsons for the next 3 seasons with very little to no flexibility to make significant moves to improve the roster around them with the right role players.

Tim Duncan clearly should have been paid $10's and $10's of millions more over his career but instead he chose rings. Yes, he also has made a lot of money prior to that. Still, that says a lot about a person's character when they want the ring much more than $25 million or more in their pocket.

That's why I will ALWAYS respect Tim Duncan even though I am a die-hard Rockets fan.

[thejohnnygold]

Here is a link to that Berman interview: LINK

 

...and here are a few exerpts...

 

“I’m very thankful to Houston for giving me a chance. The first 3 years of my career have been unbelievable. I have nothing but respect for them doing this a year early. Have nothing but good memories there which I love. The fans have been so supportive and my teammates have been unbelievable. Coach (Kevin) McHale, coach (J.B.) Bickerstaff, they’re family to me. It’s going to be sad to go. I wish them nothing but the best of luck. My relationship with Coach McHale is unbelievable, closest I’ve ever been to a coach with him. (Rockets CEO) Tad Brown is unbelievable, the staff, they are all tremendous.”

 

“I viewed myself as an up and coming star in this league. They (The Mavericks) were the ones that made the offer and look at me like a franchise-max player. That’s what I wanted. I want to be a priority. I want a bigger role. (Mavericks owner) Mark Cuban and Coach (Rick) Carlisle made that clear to me, that’s how they view me and that’s what I’ll be in Dallas. I couldn’t be more excited for the opportunity.”

 

“I hope there’s no hard feelings,” Parsons said. “At the end of the day it’s a business and I had to do what’s best for my own individual career. I have nothing but love and the utmost respect for Houston and the organization, especially the fans. I connected with them right away. I’ll miss them a lot.”

 

A couple of thoughts.  One, that first paragraph pokes a hole in the "don't treat players like assets" stuff.  I don't sense any underlying angst there.  Two, the 3rd quote rolled out the old cliche...."it's a business".

 

No hard feelings, Chandler. 

[Steven]

He will average 15 points a game. Dallas will get knocked out first round. Good for him to get paid like a "star". Like Morey said, he signed the most untradable contract ever.

[timetodienow1234567]

They nearly beat the champs. Are people sleeping on the Mavs?

[Steven]

Once Chandler gets hurt (again), they will have no C.

[Mario Peña]

Sleeping on the Mavericks, come on now. No way they're going to be a top tier team in my opinion but there's always that slim chance they get the right matchup in the playoffs and a home court advantage team sleeps on them, Dirk and co. get rolling and because they have Carlisle they maybe get to the Conference Finals but everything and I mean everything has to fall into place. I wouldn't be surprised if we see them in the playoffs as the 4 versus 5 matchup.

[timetodienow1234567]

If Howard gets hurt again(back) we will miss the playoffs. You can say that about every team.

[Mario Peña]

Excluding the lock out shortened season it looks like Tyson Chandler averages about 56 or 57 games a season since 2008.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

Parsons may not be pissed with us, but I'm pissed with him. I'm still not over the DALLAS thing

[kdo]

Seems like Parsons was offended, which I don't blame him for.

Cuban was more realistic. Morey can't keep shooting for the moon, and alienate his current team, which is what I've suspected all along.

[Mario Peña]

Parsons could have been greatful taken fair market value that the Rockets offered but that was not the case. He is a young guy who had been playing for peanuts and was looking to get paid as much as possible to the detriment of anything else, good for him. His agent Fagan and Cuban are buddies so it should come as no real surprise that when Cuban struck out again for the 4th time (imagine how bad it is being a Mavs fan) Fagan had him covered and vice versa.

Think about what you read and why Parsons said that. If you believe that at face value then we live in different worlds. To me Parsons saying he was offended is him repeating what he was prompted to say by Fagan because it's all about the money and that's cool, it's business right.

Imagine the team you are a fan of repeatedly misses on free agents, even as the team wins a championship and the owner keeps space for additions to no avail, and in the end has no choice but to claim victory by taking on a sub All Star small forward by luring him with a max contract. I'm glad here in Houston we get big names and that Morey doesn't snare mid tier players by over paying them.

[bladad]

Sleeping on the Mavericks, come on now. No way they're going to be a top tier team in my opinion but there's always that slim chance they get the right matchup in the playoffs and a home court advantage team sleeps on them, Dirk and co. get rolling and because they have Carlisle they maybe get to the Conference Finals but everything and I mean everything has to fall into place. I wouldn't be surprised if we see them in the playoffs as the 4 versus 5 matchup.

 

That Dallas team now is much better than the Dallas team last year just looking at the roster improvements. And Dallas took the spurs to Game 7, something Lebron and the Heat couldn't do.  That team looks super dangerous. Dirk is probably going to get a lot more space to work with with Parsons raining threes from all over the court.

 

Either way, this works out well for Parsons. He gets his money and he still gets the space to work with defenses keying in on Dirk and Monta.

Edited by bladad, 15 July 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[timetodienow1234567]

What is fair market value for a young guy averaging his numbers? he got what Hayward got.

I know you would have turned down the money...

Also, how do we know how much we offered him?

[bladad]

You actually did not acknowledge that some players do care more about rings than money, except, in your response above sort of in my opinion. Not that it matters. Nobody is absolutely right or wrong here. Just pointing out semantics.

Secondly, Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki have given up tens of millions of dollars over their career in pursuit of rings. Nowitzki this season could easily have earned a Bosh type contract but he's committed to being a Maverick for life and chose to give Cuban more leeway with the salary cap. Good for Nowitzki. However, Nowitzki just signed a 3 year, $30 million contract and Cuban is paying Parsons $45 million over those same 3 years. I wonder if Nowitzki, if he knew in advance that Cuban would use the extra money on Parsons, would have committed to such a big paycut?

Tim Duncan clearly should have been paid $10's and $10's of millions more over his career but instead he chose rings. Yes, he also has made a lot of money prior to that. Still, that says a lot about a person's character when they want the ring much more than $25 million or more in their pocket.

That's why I will ALWAYS respect Tim Duncan even though I am a die-hard Rockets fan.

 

I think the perspective changes when you've won a ring and can't seem to make it back that you realize the difficulty of playing for and winning a championship. Also, Parson's was on his rookie contract and was playing his ass off. At some point he does need to be paid for being ridiculously underpaid for the last two years of his contract. 

Edited by bladad, 15 July 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[bladad]

What is fair market value for a young guy averaging his numbers? he got what Hayward got.

I know you would have turned down the money...

Also, how do we know how much we offered him?

"Throughout the whole process they pretty much told me they were going to match everything. I understand it’s a business. I understand they had to do what they thought was best for their organization. It definitely caught me off-guard a little bit." -- Parsons

 

Sounds like a NYK/Lin situation.

[Mario Peña]

You really didn't process what I wrote. Anyway, here is part of it if this is what you really think is important: Good for Chandler Parsons, he got the biggest paycheck possible. Who doesn't want the most amount of money but I shouldn't have to say all that, I'm not here to hold hands. I'm not sensitive sports fan, I get tired of that crap.

As to a fair contract, we don't know but I know track records. Morey doesn't rob players and I'd bet what Morey offered was fair but Fagan found something better.

Why don't you read everything I wrote and try to understand it instead of picking a couple things out of context.

[bladad]

You really didn't process what I wrote. Anyway, here is part of it if this is what you really think is important: Good for Chandler Parsons, he got the biggest paycheck possible. Who doesn't want the most amount of money but I shouldn't have to say all that, I'm not here to hold hands. I'm not sensitive sports fan, I get tired of that crap.

Parsons could have been greatful taken fair market value that the Rockets offered but that was not the case.

 

FYI: Fair Market Value isn't what you peg it at. It's what the market decides. So in that case you are wrong and he shouldn't have been happy with anything less than he could get from any other team. The onus on enticing Parsons to stay falls completely to the Rockets. If you want him, pay for him. The Rockets gambled letting him become a restricted free agent. Gordon Hayward's deal created a comp as to what fair market value was. Cuban simply decided to pay fair market value.

Funny how Morey snared mid tier players like Lin and Asik by over paying them... OH WAIT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID HE DIDN'T DO.

[Mario Peña]

Parsons could have been greatful taken fair market value that the Rockets offered but that was not the case.

 

FYI: Fair Market Value isn't what you peg it at. It's what the market decides. So in that case you are wrong and he shouldn't have been happy with anything less than he could get from any other team. ----------------Look, we are a bunch of guys talking basketball not economics. To be fair to those who really know market value covers many different types of markets and my guess NBA free agency is extremely volatile and players values very greatly from team to team and depending on how many big names are left plus with Parsons you will never get your return on that money which kind of proves the point I'm trying to make. There is a big picture so try to expand your view instead of focusing on a couple words.

 

The onus on enticing Parsons to stay falls completely to the Rockets. If you want him, pay for him. The Rockets gambled letting him become a restricted free agent. Gordon Hayward's deal created a comp as to what fair market value was. Cuban simply decided to pay fair market value.-------------Cuban cannot get big name free agents so he has to overpay a non All Star, that's desperation.

Funny how Morey snared mid tier players like Lin and Asik by over paying them... OH WAIT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID HE DIDN'T DO.-----------Morey traded for Harden and recruited Howard, two players that matter here in our discussion but you may not understand that.

[Cooper]

Asik wasn't overpaid. He'll get more money from the Pells next year.