80 replies to this topic

[miketheodio]

why would ariza and deng take 10 mil when they are seeing other guys get overpaid?

[timetodienow1234567]

For a ring? Idk

[thejohnnygold]

I would like to think that not every owner/GM is willing to overpay players.  This was the problem that led to things like amnesty clauses and what-not.  They were supposed to learn their lessons.  Apparently, all they learned was that if they make mistakes someone else will bail them out.

 

Let's take a look at players currently making $16M or less: LINK

 

Marc Gasol

Paul George

Kevin Love

Russell Westbrook

Brook Lopez

LaMarcus Aldridge

James Harden

DeMarcus Cousins

John Wall

 

All being paid between $15.8M and $13.7M.  Think about this: in 3 days Chandler Parsons will be making more than James Harden.  In fact, he will be paid more than Aldridge, Cousins, and Wall as well.  Now, remember Hayward is getting paid more than all of these guys.

 

How is this supposed to work going forward?

 

What happens when guys like Serge Ibaka ($12M) or Paul Millsap and other such players come up for new contracts?  Lance Stephenson turning his nose up at $44M doesn't seem so crazy anymore.

 

I think this free agency period will see GM's panicking and offering early extensions to guys like Andre Drummond, Anthony Davis, Beal, Lillard, and so on.  How else can you protect yourself?  

[Johnny33]

It's interesting some folks here are actually contemplating matching the offer - I wonder if they also believe Jeremy Lin is grossly overpaid.

 

Because Lin's contract is 15m for 1 year, with only a 8.3m cap hit.  Parsons is 15m every year, with a 15m cap hit every season.  AND a 15% trade kicker will make it even harder to trade him.  AND a player option makes the contract less friendly to teams, as it takes some control away from management.  And Chandler has not shown anything in his 3 seasons to make me believe he is a superstar in the making.  He may make an All-Star team one day (maybe), but I have a hard time seeing him play up to this contract or beyond it.  Of course, Dallas had to overpay to make the Rockets surrender him, like the Rockets did with the Bulls and Knicks with Asik/Lin.  And if it was just the $$ figure, I think the Rockets probably bite the bullet and match.  However in reality even if Bosh signs, the $$ figure + trade kicker + player option trifecta would tie Morey's hands to the point he would probably prefer to let Parsons walk.

 

Can't blame Parsons though, after seeing teammates come and go for 3 seasons - he doesn't want to be in his BFF Jeremy's shoes - waiting for weeks to find out if he's being shipped out to Philly or Milwaukee or wherever.  Or if he's going to have to play another season in Houston in which his expiring contract will be dangled everyday until the trade deadline.  These things matter to players - they do not want to be treated like assets, and if management says "It's not personal, it's business" then it should go both ways.  They should shake Chandler's hand, thank him for 3 good years and wish him luck in Dallas.

 

Now if they strike out on Bosh, don't bring back Parsons, and trade Asik, and all you can replace them with is an overpaid Trevor Ariza - how do you explain that to the fanbase and Dwight/Harden?

Edited by Johnny33, 10 July 2014 - 09:34 PM.

[Johnny33]

 

 

How is this supposed to work going forward?

 

 

 

Apparently a new TV deal is kicking in, and the cap will keep going up every season for the next few years at least.  And contract values will go up right along with it.

[thejohnnygold]

I understand that.  Yet, players who are only slightly better than average receiving these kinds of deals is going to skew things the wrong way.  The NBA is headed right back to where they were if this keeps up.

 

Let's not forget that as of a month ago the vast majority of us considered $12M/yr too much for Parsons.  

[rocketrick]

For a ring? Idk

But how many players in their prime have taken significant pay cuts for a chance at a ring?

Ariza already has a ring and I don't see either Ariza or Deng take a significant paycut to play on a contender. Heck, one or both may still be able to get paid nicely and end up on a playoff team.

This is why the Miami Heat are in the quandary they are in. Just impossible to get quality players to join the team when the cap space is eaten up by 3 stars, even if 1 or 2 are taking less than the max. I don't see either DWade or Bosh taking less than $15 million going forward. DWade at $15 million with his bad knees in my opinion is a bad contract but Pat Riley has preached loyalty all these years so he's stuck in a corner. Bosh clearly is worth more than $15 million.

I'm just surprised that Lebron is still considering returning to the Heat. They have little to no chance at a ring with a damaged Wade and nobody else to speak of on their roster other than Lebron and Bosh. Bosh has been forced to play out of position as the 5 for the majority of his time in Miami. McRoberts, really?

When Miami jettisoned Mike Miller, that was the beginning of their downfall.

[rocketrick]

Now if they strike out on Bosh, don't bring back Parsons, and trade Asik, and all you can replace them with is an overpaid Trevor Ariza - how do you explain that to the fanbase and Dwight/Harden?

I couldn't agree more!

[timetodienow1234567]

I would say paying a combination of Marion(8) and Ariza(12) while re-signing one of our FAs that we have the bird rights to in order for us to go over the cap and have the full MLE might not be a bad idea. It would make us better.

I

[rocketrick]

I would say paying a combination of Marion(8) and Ariza(12) while re-signing one of our FAs that we have the bird rights to in order for us to go over the cap and have the full MLE might not be a bad idea. It would make us better.

I

I'd wince everytime Marion hoisted a shot. That dude has the ugliest shot release EVER in the history of the NBA!

[SadLakerFan]

Lebron's "no risk" decision is to go to Cleveland.  He'll be viewed as a good guy, someone who wanted to do right by the downtrodden city.  If he never wins another championship, it won't be seen as a failure on his part, it will be because he decided to forego better opportunities (i.e., the Heat) to come back home.  He'll still be regarded as among the best of all time; he's got his two championships.  He doesn't need more.  All these people comparing him to MJ or Kobe forget that Bill Russell has 11, Barkley has none, Horry has 7, Stockton has none, Elgin Baylor has none, Jerry West (the logo!) dug one out at the end of his career, Bird has 3 and Will Perdue has 4 or 5 (?).  His legacy won't be defined by championships, but to the extent it bothers him, Cleveland is risk-free from my perspective.

[Johnny33]

I understand that.  Yet, players who are only slightly better than average receiving these kinds of deals is going to skew things the wrong way.  The NBA is headed right back to where they were if this keeps up.

 

Let's not forget that as of a month ago the vast majority of us considered $12M/yr too much for Parsons.  

 

I don't disagree... I think Parsons is a good value between $8-10m/yr.  $12m/year is a bit over, and you'd have to hope he improves his game to a slightly higher level (ie. similar offensive production, but much improved defensively).  $15m/yr and you're hoping he becomes an All-Star.  The only reason I'd think Morey matches is if Bosh signs, they're already over the cap and it's Les Alexander's call if he wants to pay the luxury tax to keep him.  Or if Bosh doesn't sign, the Rockets could be forced to sign him or risk a giant step back.

 

In any event, I think the Parsons signing is a direct result of Morey's constant roster shuffling and chasing of big name free agents.  Parsons would never get a player option and trade kicker from the Rockets.  He'd otherwise have to worry about being moved each year for something better.  They've hinted many times that the only untradeable players on the roster are Howard and Harden.  So this is a double win for Parsons - he gets paid and has job security.

[Jeby]

Sorry, guys. Had to.

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Edited by Jeby, 11 July 2014 - 02:20 AM.

[thejohnnygold]

I'm just sitting here thinking....and I kind of just want to get the old gang back and give it another go.  Keep Asik.  Keep Lin.  Match Parsons' offer sheet (it can be dealt with later if need be).  Pick up a couple of guys off the wire to fill out the bench.

 

I know that I'm higher on Terrence Jones than most and we've heard all the criticisms, but let's give him credit.  He has done nothing but improve since he got here and is entering only his second year of NBA play (remember that first season was almost all D-League).  Yes, his 3 pt. shot is slow and a tad awkward, but it's better than Marion and he's managed to make it work.

 

Point being, we would enter the season still fielding a top 5 roster (on paper) with Bev, Harden, Parsons, Jones, and Howard with Lin, D-Mo, Daniels, Asik, Canaan, and whoever makes the final cut.  Not only does this put us in line to be a top 4 team in the West (again) but it gives us the continuity we have lacked for some time and leaves us in the (nearly forgotten) Kevin Love bonanza that will be coming our way in January.

 

I have read multiple posts about wasting H&H's years.  I get a little peeved reading these.  I mean, is OKC wasting Durant's career?  Was Steve Nash's career a waste?  This mode of perception and evaluation leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

It's this weird pre-cognitive arrogance that one not only knows what is best but that they can just make it happen because that's what they want and the results are just a matter of connecting these preconceived dots.

 

 

Here we sit, begging for scraps at the big boys table.  Yeah, great....we're finally at that table!  Still, do we want to be like Cleveland desperately trying to lure a player in?  I say "no".  It looks bad.  It's time to stand up and say, "Good riddance.  We don't need you.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do."  We're going to be a very good team with or without Bosh, Melo, James, or whoever.  Being a doormat that they can walk over whenever they feel like is just not a good thing to do.  

 

I know that many of our esteemed readers think none of it matters anyways until we get a "real" coach.  I mean, does Bosh erase that issue and catapult us into title contention?  C'mon...sure, he will make us better overall; however, I can't take anyone seriously that thinks his arrival guarantees us anything besides a playoff berth in the Western Conference.  I think we have all, more or less, agreed that even bringing in LBJ himself doesn't guarantee us a Finals trip.

 

As a man who has had his share of successes and failures with the opposite sex I can say I have learned it's important to learn to recognize when you're getting played and it is time to get out.  This free agency period has me feeling that way.  These guys are acting like a bunch of girls who love the attention and are happy to be wooed, wined, dined, and lavished with praise, adoration, and gifts.  Yet, the whole time they are looking over your shoulder for something better and have no intention of committing in any way to you--they're just stringing everyone along.  Sorry, but that just doesn't fly with me.

 

In short, I'm over it.  Bosh, Melo, and James can all have each other.  I know someone who won't take us for granted and will be very available, and attainable in a few months--Kevin Love.  Much like a pound puppy, anywhere is better than where he is right now.  He'll love us forever.

 

I mentioned using Parsons' new cap figure to aid in making the money work and was met with "Minnesota won't trade Love for Parsons".  Yes, we all agree with this.  It won't be just Parsons and Minnesota will be desperate to get anything good back.  We can throw a ton of young guys, picks, Parsons, Jones, D-Mo...whatever.  We've got plenty to work with.  Heck, we can throw in Lin and take back Rubio (letting him lead the 2nd unit would be kind of awesome) which I am sure they would like.  Bottom line--yes, we can make that trade work.

 

Let the prima donnas preen somewhere else.  I'm done with this dog and pony show.

 

 

EDIT: Crap....I forgot about the no-trade for 1 year and the 15% kicker in his contract....well, nevermind then....that changes things drastically.

[timetodienow1234567]

Great post, especially the Facebook pic. However, we are NOT in the Love discussion.(IMO) The Cavs, Warriors, Celtics, etc... Are ahead of us. I'm also not sure he wouldn't want to go to LA. huge market. Went to UCLA. Etc....

If Batum or Damien go down in Portland LMA could be available.

[thejohnnygold]

Well, that lost post became irrelevant quick 

 

Looks like We're getting Bosh, and I would imagine Morey matches Parsons' deal and we're all in for the next 3 years with pretty much the guys we've got now.  Like I said before, not a bad hand to push all in with.

 

Reports are already coming in that Love to Cleveland is brewing....my guess is they just wait and sign him outright after this season as a trade would deplete their roster a great deal....of course, I've been wrong on every single prediction I've made over the past month or so.......

[slick shoes]

Great post, especially the Facebook pic. However, we are NOT in the Love discussion.(IMO) The Cavs, Warriors, Celtics, etc... Are ahead of us. I'm also not sure he wouldn't want to go to LA. huge market. Went to UCLA. Etc....

If Batum or Damien go down in Portland LMA could be available.

 

LMA will be in Portland for 4-5 years and be paid handsomly as well.

[slick shoes]

Well, that lost post became irrelevant quick 

 

Looks like We're getting Bosh, and I would imagine Morey matches Parsons' deal and we're all in for the next 3 years with pretty much the guys we've got now.  Like I said before, not a bad hand to push all in with.

 

Reports are already coming in that Love to Cleveland is brewing....my guess is they just wait and sign him outright after this season as a trade would deplete their roster a great deal....of course, I've been wrong on every single prediction I've made over the past month or so.......

 

K Love is quickly becoming my least favorite NBA player.

[slick shoes]

"Houston and Chris Bosh moving quickly on securing deal, and with Bosh, Rockets will match Chandler Parsons offer sheet, source tells Yahoo.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) July 11, 2014"

[kdo]

Frankly, this off-season, is a case of Morey being too smart for his own good. Sometimes, emotional decisions are the better choice.

When you base everything on analytics and numbers only, and leave the human aspect out of it, then your team suffers on morale. Teams like the Spurs and Mavs don't go chasing every free agent when they're available, even if they would make their team better. They approach it with some pragmatism and ensure that how they approach things that they won't alienate their current roster.

 

If we sign Bosh, great, if not...I fear Houston would succumb to the worse possible scenario position.