118 replies to this topic

[Buckko]

@Buckko, he was talking about before, with Big Z.  This past season they had nobody--Varejao just can't stay healthy and had to play limited minutes off the bench.  After that you're talking about Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, Gee, Miles, Zeller......and they still finished 19th out of 30 in the league for Def. Rating.  Think about that.....11 teams were worse defensively than the Cavaliers.  Ouch.  (Houston was 13th per basketball-reference.com).

The rockets were about 9th for most of the year until howard and beverley got injured at the end of the season and tanked their rating. JG we both know how many horrible teams there were, especially in the eastern conference this year, so I can't put a lot of faith in that stat. Even though the competition was horrendous, they still managed to get the 19th rating doesn't do it for me. Brown just doesn't belong on a nba bench.

[thejohnnygold]

The rockets were about 9th for most of the year until howard and beverley got injured at the end of the season and tanked their rating. JG we both know how many horrible teams there were, especially in the eastern conference this year, so I can't put a lot of faith in that stat. Even though the competition was horrendous, they still managed to get the 19th rating doesn't do it for me. Brown just doesn't belong on a nba bench.

 

Whatever--you clearly have your opinion set so strongly you missed the crux of my point....even for the East he had nobody to play defense with.  But you're probably right, Mike Brown is a moron who knows nothing about NBA basketball and that's why he has made a career out of it going so far as to make it to the NBA Finals, winning a coach of the year award, and carrying a lifetime .616 winning percentage.

 

The reality is he has forgotten more about basketball then we will ever know and, if we're being honest, we are in no position to judge him, his credentials, nor his abilities.  It would be like a cockroach judging me on my cooking skills.

 

Dislike Mike Brown if you want, but I can't realistically consider any notion that he is not an excellent defensive coach--there is too much evidence to the contrary.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

JG you say that like 19th should be held in high esteem  considering the dumpster fire that was the eastern conference this year I find nothing to hold up high from that result. playing in the eastern conference and having your opposition unable to score doesn't always mean you played good defense.....sometimes the competition was just lousy.  Cleveland has talent. they are by no stretch of the imagination a complete team, but they do have parts to work with. Mike Brown was a disaster coaching this year. there was in-fighting on the team, players rebelling against the coach. chaos in the locker room. Cleveland had no choice but to get rid of him in spite of having just gave him a big hefty contract. he lost control of the locker room.

 

what I find really disgusting is we were 13. I know some will point to the fact we play in the west were the competition is much better, but I find no solace in that fact. we have the talent to be far better

Edited by rockets best fan, 25 June 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Buckko]

JG, we both know Mike brown owes the success of his career to lebron. Nothing more too it than that considering brown never achieved anything after lebron. 

[rockets best fan]

@Buckko

what credentials does Mike Brown have that indicate he is a good defensive coach JG?  I agree Buckko

[timetodienow1234567]

TJG, are these people new fans? Or are they clouded by recent history? Smh. It's hard to talk basketball on here sometimes.

[thejohnnygold]

We've been over this.  You disagree with everything so there is no point.  So let it be said, "Mike Brown sucks".

 

For what it's worth, here is a snippet from an article about the Cavs from last season around December:

 

"Despite defense being the hallmark of Brown's coaching style, theCavs have been especially mercurial in the first few weeks when the opposing team has the ball.

To review: The Cavs opened the season as a borderline top-10 defense. They then dropped to nearly league-worst levels in adjusted defensive rating. For now, however, the Cavs have stabilized as a league-average 15th in defensive efficiency again, allowing an estimated 102.1 points per 100 possessions.

What can we make of this besides a lack of consistent effort?

Per Synergy Sports (subscription required), the Cavs have actually become an elite team at attacking the pick-and-roll ball-handler, with the 0.69 points per play (PPP) they yield ranking second in the league.

It's a similar scheme that the team has been utilizing all season: throw help defense at the ball-handler, rotate defenders and quickly recover around the pick. Although it leads to a foul in this particular play, its initial defense on Chris Paul helps cut down the deadlier of two evils.

Just as well, the team is proficient at defending against the roll man and spot-ups, similarly ranking ninth and eighth, respectively, against those plays.

What they aren't capable of defending are isolation plays, in which opponents are scorching them for 0.94 PPP—the worst isolation defense in the league. Fortunately, isolations have been limited to just 6.3 percent of opponents' total offense.

It's an odd testament to the fact that, although the Cavs lack any elite defensive specialists (apologies to Mr. Gee), their defensive system, when whirring, can be effective. Just ask the L.A. Clippers when they were held to a measly 32.2 percent shooting on Saturday night."

 

(sorry, that quote screwed up the formatting)....According to mysynergysports.com, the Cavs finished with the 6th best pick n roll defense.  It was in spot-up and iso that they got scorched the most--which points to individual defense--not team defense.  Believe what you want.  Apparently, learning under Pop and Carlisle and producing tangible results after that is not indicative of anything.

[Cooper]

Brown certainly owes a lot of his head coaching success to lebron but he can coach defense quite well. The only players that isn't a significant minus defender the cavs had was Andy V. who is hurt all the time it seems and Deng who they only got after the deadline. You can say they played in the east against "bad competition" but they were the bad competition as well. While the lockeroom situation in cleveland was a mess but brown wouldn't be the head coach and thus wouldn't have to worry about that thing here plus Waiters and Irving hated each other there is not a situation remotely as volatile in Houston anyways. As a Head coach Brown leaves a lot to be desired for sure but I don't see why he'd be an awful assistant.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

where is that article from......the Cleveland team site  trying to convince me Mike Brown accomplished anything other than making a total mess of things is like trying to push a bolder uphill. if I wanted I could pick those stats apart, but I don't want to argue about it. you are correct we will never agree on the subject so I'm moving on.

 

getting back to the subject of this thread...........our defense...some seem to think it's as simple as plugging a couple of holes and we transform into juggernaut status. our problems are more fundamentally rooted. we need a change of direction defensively in addition to and upgrade in athletic abilities. it's not as simple as finding a 3 and D guy.

[thejohnnygold]

I love when you say, "I could destroy your argument....but I won't..."  Go on then, wow me with your ability to explain away a 6th rated pick n roll defense (arguably the most difficult play in basketball to defend and a prime example of team defense, execution, and coaching.  Here, let me get the first few things you'll say out of the way.

 

1. Oh, that was in the East.  OK.  I guess nobody over there runs the pick n roll or plays anybody from the Western Conference either.  All players in the East are inferior and terrible.

 

2. Maybe you'll try and argue that Andrew Bynum, Varejao, Hawes, or Thompson are superior defenders.  I might give you Varejao, but he missed games and played limited minutes as a bench player after that.

 

3. You going to tell me Irving (possibly second in the "worst defense in the league" race to Harden) is the reason?

 

4. Honestly, I can't think of anything...why can't it just be that Brown might actually be good at teaching his guys how to defend the pick n roll?  You do realize he learned it from Popovich, right?  They are still friends and talk frequently.

 

In fact, don't take my word for it, here is what Pop had to say about Brown after the Lakers fired him.

 

"“Mike’s not just a good friend but he’s a hell of a coach"

 

Pop doesn't speak lightly.  I'm sure you'll dismiss that statement somehow.  Surely being hired into high level positions by the likes of Popovich, Carlisle, and Jerry Buss just happens by chance.  It is becoming crystal clear that your dislike of Brown is irrational.  Do you want to blame him for the Lakers debacle?  Well, they got to the 2nd round of the playoffs in his first year and lost to the WC champion OKC Thunder.  Then he got canned 5 games into his second season after they went and got him a crippled PG and a Center with a bad back/shoulder.

 

Cleveland was a train wreck when he got there and it just got worse.  They wasted free agency on Bynum and their #1 draft pick on Bennett.  Add to that the mid-season trades and what does anyone really expect from that mess?

 

It doesn't matter--odds are we're getting Hollins--I just can't fathom how you can't see Brown's ability to be a high-level def. coordinator.  You talk like he struggles to tie his shoes in the morning.

 

Moving on, I think most of us agree that a new, improved system combined with more familiarity/experience will produce much better results.

[rockets best fan]

you know yourself stats can be manipulated to show something that isn't there. it's no large feat to argue against almost any stat. as for what Pop says.......what were you expecting him to say about a former employee and friend? being under Pop does not automatically mean he is a good coach. what are you trying to bait me into this argument? if you wish to discuss Mike Brown we can. I doubt you will change my mind or I will change yours. we already know where we stand on this issue. However I'm not oppose to discussing it. we can start another thread for it. I have a hold boat load of things I could say about Mike Brown. I don't believe I will have any trouble holding up my end of the debate. I don't like or respect Mike Brown's coaching ability. simple as that. you have a right to your opinion I just don't agree. the man is an albatross to competent coaching.

[thejohnnygold]

That's fine.  Manipulating stats?  What, you mean mysynergysports.com has an agenda to promote the Cavaliers' pick n roll defense....that kind of manipulation?  You got your tin foil hat on, RBF?     I already knew you were going to dismiss Pop's statement.  It's easy to toss aside whatever doesn't fit our worldview and that's what you're doing here.  You really think Pop would keep the kind of imbecile you seem to think Brown is on his bench for 3 years, put him in charge of player development, defense, etc. and then put his stamp of approval on him?  Come on, even you have to see that's just not cogent.

 

I agree that we should drop this.  There are more important things to discuss like who our back up center is going to be.  D-Mo?

[Buckko]

Hey Hey, the stats definitely say Irving is worst than harden at defense.

[slick shoes]

I agree that we should drop this.  There are more important things to discuss like who our back up center is going to be.  D-Mo?

 

I'm thinking a veteran ring chaser if we snag one of these marquee free agents the way we did with Mutombo/Camby. Ideas?

[Buckko]

Dmo will be our back C, he has become a great defender and is very versatile.

For FAs I would say sign two or three of these  danny granger/caron butler/reshawd lewis/marion/carter/CJ miles/Marvin Williams for wing and forward depth

 

Then sign 1 or 2 of birdman/okafor/elton brand/Drew Gordon/Jermaine O’neal/Kenyon martin/Nazir Mommhad for big depth

[rocketrick]

Dmo will be our back C, he has become a great defender and is very versatile.
For FAs I would say sign two or three of these  danny granger/caron butler/reshawd lewis/marion/carter/CJ miles/Marvin Williams for wing and forward depth[/size]
 
Then sign 1 or 2 of birdman/okafor/elton brand/Drew Gordon/Jermaine O’neal/Kenyon martin/Nazir Mommhad for big depth[/size]

Oh yeah, he (substitute any of the above names of your choice) kicked ass in this year's playoffs and would clearly improve the Rockets next season..................

Same odds as England winning the World Cup this year.

[thejohnnygold]

I'm thinking a veteran ring chaser if we snag one of these marquee free agents the way we did with Mutombo/Camby. Ideas?

 

I could see Cole Aldrich, Jason Smith, Spencer Hawes (he probably gets a better offer somewhere else), and Channing Frye (who will also get a solid offer that may be too rich for us).  Jermaine O'Neal showed signs of life last season....shoot, looking at the free agency list there are lots.....Nazr Mohammed is still around.  Greg Stiemsma played ok for NO last year.  Aron Baynes looked great as a bench bruiser for San Antonio.  Jordan Hill.....nahhhhh.

[slick shoes]

I could see Cole Aldrich, Jason Smith, Spencer Hawes (he probably gets a better offer somewhere else), and Channing Frye (who will also get a solid offer that may be too rich for us).  Jermaine O'Neal showed signs of life last season....shoot, looking at the free agency list there are lots.....Nazr Mohammed is still around.  Greg Stiemsma played ok for NO last year.  Aron Baynes looked great as a bench bruiser for San Antonio.  Jordan Hill.....nahhhhh.

 

I would definitely be okay with Mohammed behind Howard. He played better than Hibbert during the post season IMO.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

 you keep saying we are gonna drop this after you have furthered the push in discussion. ahh the 6th best pick an roll defense......could it be that the reason Cleveland had that stat is because one of the other defensive stats are way out of line indicating teams rarely attacked them via pick and roll because something other than pick and roll was getting them better shots? stats are to easy to attack. Cleveland was 19th for a reason. while they may do some things well they don't do enough things well to be above 19. you have already stated they don't have good defensive players(on that point I agree) yet you're going to hold up one of their defensive stats and attempt to praise Mike Brown for it?

[timetodienow1234567]

They had horrid defenders and were still 19th. And yet you won't admit they should have been 28th or 29th and the fact they weren't was because of Brown?