103 replies to this topic

[thejohnnygold]

@QNoir--

 

If Matthews was his man (which is possible...they moved him around a lot on defense) then it is still all 5 Rockets who are to blame.  You can see the video at ESPN.  The highlights show it.  Harden is behind the baseline after making a tough lay up.  Matthews is around the free throw line and there are 3 rockets between him and the goal (4 Rockets between Harden and Matthews).  By the time Matthews gets the ball, everybody has seen him run past them (and let him) and Howard was there first with Harden right behind him.  You can pin it all on Harden if you want, but it is understood that when a guy leaks out like that when his man is out of bounds on the other end the team has to cover until he can recover.  Could Harden have sprinted back?  Yes.  Could someone else have recognized the problem and helped?  Yes.

 

It doesn't matter.  I won't change your mind, but I think there is a bigger issue here than Harden is lazy/doesn't try.  I see it as a team issue.  I also see it as a fluke thing.  It happened.  It sucked.  Pointing fingers doesn't help.  Matthews made a heads up play and it becomes ammo to persecute Harden.  Go for it.

 

I guess everyone just needs to vent....The grass is always greener.  We should trade Harden for Kevin Love so that we don't even make the playoffs and don't have to suffer at the hands of Aldridge.  We should get another coach because we don't like this one.  That works wonders for so many other teams.  Frank Vogel is on the hot seat.  George Karl gets fired, as does Adelman, and a slew of other coaches we'd "love to have".

 

It's just like that old adage about seeing some beautiful girl and lusting/longing after her and imagining how great she must be....remind yourself that somewhere there is a guy who is sick of her crap.

 

I promise you there are a ton of teams that would love to take Harden off our hands.

 

Gah!  When did it become a sin to lose?  Imagine every fan base acts just like this one in a world where there can be only one winner.  How sad for everyone else that they can't enjoy the ride and opportunity to be a part of it.  I recommend the negative nellies venture over to /r/Rockets over at reddit.com.  They are really having a go of it and you can all relish in your disdain for Harden and McHale to your heart's content.  This is a fan forum--feels more like a hate squad. ....sorry, maybe I should just steer clear for a while...I seem to have reached my quota...and we've still got more games to go

[timetodienow1234567]

Fluke thing? I've seen that far too often to believe its a fluke. But to each his own.

[QNoir]

@thejohnnygold

 

I see, so you wouldn't put a play made by a shooting guard on the opposing shooting guard, who happens to be jogging backwards down the court. Got it.

 

And the same ol' comment you make every time you reply to me: go somewhere else. But I haven't gotten the message; it doesn't make sense. I like to discuss my thoughts on games that happened, and my thoughts on what to improve.

 

I have a suggestion for you if you just want to be a "fan" and ignore the things that need fixing: Cheerleader tryouts are on Fridays.

Edited by QNoir, 24 April 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[rocketrick]

Somebody tells him to jog down the court slowly behind his assignment, so as not to overexert himself. Somebody tells him to completely lose Matthews with 50 seconds left.

Today is a great day to take pot shots at Rockets coaches and players you clearly do not like.

If any of you who believe it was Harden's fault that Matthews got the bunny layup in the last 50 seconds of Game 2 simply either didn't bother to listen to any of Coach McHale's post-game interview or just have simply chosen to take a pot shot at one of your least favorite Rockets players.

McHale wanted his guards to double-team the ball after the free throw make and clearly said it was Asik's fault that Matthews got behind everyone for the easy layup.

I'm not sure how you or anyone else choosing to scorch Harden for a mistake that clearly wasn't his fault yet somehow also be able to find a way to pressure the ball in the backcourt as soon as the Rockets free throw attempt was made. It was a very easy pass to make to a completely wide open Matthews which clearly defeated any hopes of pressuring the ball in the backcourt.

Edited by rocketrick, 24 April 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[thenit]

People keep making excuses for harden, maybe it's instructed, no it's fluke, other people should have gotten his guy, saving himself for offence, he guarded lbj for 2 minutes, he will bring it in the playoffs.

No one is saying we should trade him but it gets frustrating that you can bury Lin, parsons, Howard, jones DMo etc but not harden he is infallible or that everything he does is according to plan. We watch him develop with post moves step backs 3 point shooting which I love, but if he can't even turn in a good effort on defence as a leader as he claims on interviews and never says I need to be better guarding my guy or it's on me. But when we win oh I made a tough shot the team gave me the ball and I pounded it in. I'm exaggerating because I think we are making excuses for him.

It's the playoffs name one other player that doesn't even try or saving themselves so often that it become a tendency. Once in a while is acceptable but when you do it as often as he does it's tough to swallow. Seriously even Melo tries hard in the playoffs.

[rocketrick]

People keep making excuses for harden, maybe it's instructed, no it's fluke, other people should have gotten his guy, saving himself for offence, he guarded lbj for 2 minutes, he will bring it in the playoffs.

No one is saying we should trade him but it gets frustrating that you can bury Lin, parsons, Howard, jones DMo etc but not harden he is infallible or that everything he does is according to plan. We watch him develop with post moves step backs 3 point shooting which I love, but if he can't even turn in a good effort on defence as a leader as he claims on interviews and never says I need to be better guarding my guy or it's on me. But when we win oh I made a tough shot the team gave me the ball and I pounded it in. I'm exaggerating because I think we are making excuses for him.

It's the playoffs name one other player that doesn't even try or saving themselves so often that it become a tendency. Once in a while is acceptable but when you do it as often as he does it's tough to swallow. Seriously even Melo tries hard in the playoffs.

That's fine to have your opinion on why the Rockets are down 0-2 to Portland.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I believe the main reason the Rockets are down 0-2 is because of poor outside shooting. Definitely below average across the entire team. And no, inserting a rookie with no NBA experience in the playoffs isn't likely going to change this. Instead, the Rockets will simply have to shoot their way out of their slump, or shoot their way out of the playoffs this season, plain and simple.

If it's defense you prefer, go over to the Eastern Conference Playoffs and explain to me why 2 of the very best defensive NBA teams (Chicago and Indiana) are struggling and one, or both, are going to get knocked out in the 1st round. Chicago is down 0-2 with the next 2 games in Washington. Their vaunted Coach continues to keep his best offensive players (Boozer and Dunleavy) on the bench in the 4th quarters. The Pacers will always struggle offensively, in my opinion, because they don't have consistent offensive type players on the floor other than David West.

The Rockets must get some consistent outside shooting to have a chance to make the series against Portland more competitive going forward or they will be going fishing much sooner than anyone anticipated.

Edited by rocketrick, 25 April 2014 - 01:02 AM.

[QNoir]

Shoot it and turn around. It ain't that hard. I mean ... at some point before half-court ... stop casually jogging backwards.

[rocketrick]

QNoir, you are entitled to your opinion but not to making up your version of facts.

Coach McHale, in his post-game interview last night, clearly placed the blame for Matthews break away layup in the final 50 seconds of the game on Asik, not Harden.

Why? Because McHale was looking to double team the ball in the backcourt and apply some pressure with the possibility of creating a turnover.

[thenit]

It's ok we can disagree, I'm not expecting all world defending by harden, you can't compare the eastern conference with the western. It's night and day in players you face. All I expect is harden to give it all on both sides of the floor it's the playoffs nothing should be left in the tank once you are done. He is our best player so he needs to set the example, because he is highest on the hierarchy and no one gets into his face when he misses a cutter or doesn't chase the ball, but when Lin, bev, parsons DMo etc makes mistakes someone will tell them or they will sit for a bit. So when your leader doesn't do his part or even tries, other players may mentally get let down and lose some energy. Doesn't have to be great but just try a little harder

[Willk]

It's not a matter of being an elitist. It's how he plays. I would chalk it to three things.

 

1. He's a stats junkie (which relates somewhat to immaturity and selfishness). He wants that rebound. He wants that steal. He wants to be the first down the court on the offensive end. He relishes in the opportunity to make his "I'm a bad mofo" stink face. See game 1.

 

2. He's praised for making steals and scoring on fast breaks. Nobody has rewarded him for defensive contribution. He just isn't motivated, and it feeds into his philosophy. It's not a decision made on a single play; it's how he sees the game as a whole playing out in his team's favor. It's just that some philosophies are simply ... false.

 

2. He's not a great multitasker. He should be given one focus: his assignment. Don't tell Harden to defend the lanes and help, because he will NEVER return to his original assignment. He sees the ball, and he sees red. He easily loses focus. How often is there an offensive rebound which turns into an outside shot because Harden sees a ball go up and thinks his job is done?

 

Each of these relate to the others. And Matthews was definitely his guy. We know Bev was on Lillard. Who else would we expect to get down the court quickly enough to guard him? Asik and Howard? (actually, Dwight was downcourt pretty early, but has his hands full already without thinking about Matthews). Parsons was in front of Batum where he was supposed to be. Harden just had no sense of urgency after his big play. I mean, what else was he supposed to be doing?

1. You state that Harden wants that rebound. Is that bad? Houston has had problems rebounding so rebounding is now a bad thing? Harden also easily lead the team in assists. My how selfish is that. I guess assists are a bad thing now too. You also state that Harden wants to be the first one on the break, but I thought he wants to get that rebound. If he goes after the rebound how can he be the first one down the court?

2. What is this Harden philosophy you are referring to. Does not make any sense.

3. He is not a multi-tasker. Ok. he is easily the best play maker on the team, best passer, and best scorer. That is multiple things at one time. Also, you state that Harden wants that rebound and is the first one down the court. Sounds like multi-tasking to me.

We know who your favorite player is. Sounds a little more like jealousy than constructive criticism.

[Willk]

People keep making excuses for harden, maybe it's instructed, no it's fluke, other people should have gotten his guy, saving himself for offence, he guarded lbj for 2 minutes, he will bring it in the playoffs.

No one is saying we should trade him but it gets frustrating that you can bury Lin, parsons, Howard, jones DMo etc but not harden he is infallible or that everything he does is according to plan. We watch him develop with post moves step backs 3 point shooting which I love, but if he can't even turn in a good effort on defence as a leader as he claims on interviews and never says I need to be better guarding my guy or it's on me. But when we win oh I made a tough shot the team gave me the ball and I pounded it in. I'm exaggerating because I think we are making excuses for him.

It's the playoffs name one other player that doesn't even try or saving themselves so often that it become a tendency. Once in a while is acceptable but when you do it as often as he does it's tough to swallow. Seriously even Melo tries hard in the playoffs.

The last 6 quarters Harden has been trying on Defense. Harden has not played well on offense but it is not due to lack of effort.

[Willk]

That's fine to have your opinion on why the Rockets are down 0-2 to Portland.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I believe the main reason the Rockets are down 0-2 is because of poor outside shooting. Definitely below average across the entire team. And no, inserting a rookie with no NBA experience in the playoffs isn't likely going to change this. Instead, the Rockets will simply have to shoot their way out of their slump, or shoot their way out of the playoffs this season, plain and simple.

If it's defense you prefer, go over to the Eastern Conference Playoffs and explain to me why 2 of the very best defensive NBA teams (Chicago and Indiana) are struggling and one, or both, are going to get knocked out in the 1st round. Chicago is down 0-2 with the next 2 games in Washington. Their vaunted Coach continues to keep his best offensive players (Boozer and Dunleavy) on the bench in the 4th quarters. The Pacers will always struggle offensively, in my opinion, because they don't have consistent offensive type players on the floor other than David West.

The Rockets must get some consistent outside shooting to have a chance to make the series against Portland more competitive going forward or they will be going fishing much sooner than anyone anticipated.

I can understand Thibs not playing Boozer because Taj Gibson has been much better, but not playing Dunleavy is inexcusable. He always plays his defensive line-up in the 4th no matter what the score is. Dunleavy's shooting would have helped yesterday.

The Pacers offense is just horrible. It also looks like Vogul as lost the team

[Baller93]

The last 6 quarters Harden has been trying on Defense. Harden has not played well on offense but it is not due to lack of effort.

 

You sure your watching the series here?  He's easily the worst defender wearing a Rockets jersey and giving the least effort.  In the regular season, I can see Harden fanboys making excuses for him, but come playoff times, I expected all Rocket Nation fans to see Harden give a at least some sort of visible concerted effort at moving more than turtle speed on defense.  If you really think he's playing good defense the first two games, then you must have the biggest blinders on for this guy or your his relative or something.  :smh:

[Willk]

You sure your watching the series here? He's easily the worst defender wearing a Rockets jersey and giving the least effort. In the regular season, I can see Harden fanboys making excuses for him, but come playoff times, I expected all Rocket Nation fans to see Harden give a at least some sort of visible concerted effort at moving more than turtle speed on defense. If you really think he's playing good defense the first two games, then you must have the biggest blinders on for this guy or your his relative or something. :smh:

name one breakdown Harden has had in the last 6 quarters. Feel free. He is not a good defender but that does not mean he has not been trying hard. If you wish not to watch that is your choice, just do not make things up. There is no such thing as a Harden fanboy. There is nobody here that just cares about Harden's stats. I have seen your previous posts and I doubt that you are part of Red Nation.

[thejohnnygold]

@thejohnnygold

 

I see, so you wouldn't put a play made by a shooting guard on the opposing shooting guard, who happens to be jogging backwards down the court. Got it.

 

And the same ol' comment you make every time you reply to me: go somewhere else. But I haven't gotten the message; it doesn't make sense. I like to discuss my thoughts on games that happened, and my thoughts on what to improve.

 

I have a suggestion for you if you just want to be a "fan" and ignore the things that need fixing: Cheerleader tryouts are on Fridays.

 

As RocketRick has handled the Matthews play I'll move on to the rest.

 

I believe I recommended you find a Lin forum after one of your first posts--it was a positive suggestion, not a "you came to the wrong neighborhood" suggestion.  You seem to have taken it the other way.  I suggested that people who want to enjoy what is colloquially known as a "circle jerk" regarding Harden and McHale would find better company over at Reddit--and that is all this is.  Which brings me to my next point.

 

What exactly do you think any, and all, of us are here?  Do you have a hotline to Morey's office so that you can tell him what's wrong with his team?  We are all "just fans" and, unlike many, I prefer to root for my team--not tear them down.  The extremism of perspective is beyond measure.  After hurling the insinuations, insults, and name-calling at those who dare to not pile on Harden and McHale has it crossed anyone's mind that we are all aware of their short-comings?

 

We are not blind nor ignorant--quite the opposite.  We have made our peace with who we have and what they are.  The finger-pointing blame game can wait until we ACTUALLY fail.  Adversity shows people's true colors and I see lots of flags flying high at the moment.  Isolating one player out of a team--even the "star"--misses the point of a team game.

 

Speaking of, can we please stop proliferating the myth that McHale shouts at and benches everyone on the team for tying their shoes wrong, but Harden could stop and eat a sandwich mid-game and no one would say a word.  Neither of these sentiments is true--not even a little.  Saying things over and over makes them true, right?  Yup, just like gossip, rumors, and politicians!

 

Getting back to the point.  I will gladly don my pom poms and over-sized manly megaphone tonight to cheer for the Rockets.  It's not my job to fix the Rockets.  As a fan, it is my job to root for the team.  We can dissect and tear them all apart this Summer--and we will.  I'm not interested in throwing dirt on the graves of the living.

 

[QNoir]

Who said anything about Lin? Lol, I find it funny that anyone who once has positive things to say about Lin, or once has negative things to say about Harden or McHale, is accused of being here for the purpose of praising Lin. It could be ... it could be ... that I'm just a Rockets fan that made some simple observations. You guys are hilarious.

 

And a circle-jerk is what you wanted: a place just to praise the Rockets and not criticize aspects of players' or coaches' games. Usually, a circle-jerk involves praise and not criticism. If you really want to ask an expert, though, check with Harden. He gives so many reacharounds on defense, he's going to have to start charging.

 

And about the photo: H - O - T , HOT!

[timetodienow1234567]

Whoa. Calm down.

[QNoir]

Rocketrick, who is the one making up facts?

 

You said McHale put it on Asik. He did no such thing. See this is what you can get away with when people don't check. He said "we were supposed to get back." Harden didn't do that. He said "We wanted our big to get back and trap up front." Ok. So? That doesn't presuppose guards shouldn't watch guards. And there were 2 bigs on the court anyway. Sheesh. At no point did he mention Asik by name. I mean, come on, what did you do that give you extra insight into what that means. Call him on the phone and have a nice chat? Theoretically, if there was full-court pressure, Matthews may have had to run back anyway. Or that turnover could have been forced like McHale wanted. Any way you look at it. ... what was Harden doing ... jogging backwards, lol.

[QNoir]

1. You state that Harden wants that rebound. Is that bad? Houston has had problems rebounding so rebounding is now a bad thing? Harden also easily lead the team in assists. My how selfish is that. I guess assists are a bad thing now too. You also state that Harden wants to be the first one on the break, but I thought he wants to get that rebound. If he goes after the rebound how can he be the first one down the court?

2. What is this Harden philosophy you are referring to. Does not make any sense.

3. He is not a multi-tasker. Ok. he is easily the best play maker on the team, best passer, and best scorer. That is multiple things at one time. Also, you state that Harden wants that rebound and is the first one down the court. Sounds like multi-tasking to me.

We know who your favorite player is. Sounds a little more like jealousy than constructive criticism.

 

How can he be the first one down the court with a rebound? He grabs a rebound, the point guard spots up to space out the one or two defenders who are also jetting back, and Harden gets an early 3-pointer up. He likes that shot, and makes a reasonable amount of them. But when he misses, it's almost certainly a defensive rebound. Anyway, he does that with his rebounds often. Nobody else touches the ball, and really ... it was probably a rebound that could have went to TJones anyway. When I say first one down the court I'm speaking in jest, but he definitely leaves the bigs trailing on that play. And if it's an offensive rebound, Harden's man is 100% open.

 

When I say "philosophy," I'm basically saying if someone were to say "this isn't how you win games," some may say that the Rockets' record begs to differ. That's a philosophy. The team has had some success with him focusing primarily on offense. I think they need this kind of playoff disappointment to realize what's needed is something different.

 

And my favorite player is Blake Griffin, but I may change that to LMA by the end of this series, lol.

Edited by QNoir, 25 April 2014 - 04:42 PM.

[rocketrick]

Rocketrick, who is the one making up facts?
 
You said McHale put it on Asik. He did no such thing. See this is what you can get away with when people don't check. He said "we were supposed to get back." Harden didn't do that. He said "We wanted our big to get back and trap up front." Ok. So? That doesn't presuppose guards shouldn't watch guards. And there were 2 bigs on the court anyway. Sheesh. At no point did he mention Asik by name. I mean, come on, what did you do that give you extra insight into what that means. Call him on the phone and have a nice chat? Theoretically, if there was full-court pressure, Matthews may have had to run back anyway. Or that turnover could have been forced like McHale wanted. Any way you look at it. ... what was Harden doing ... jogging backwards, lol.

Dude,

I was listening to the 790 postgame report on my way home from Toyota Center. The reporter specifically asked Coach McHale what happened and he clearly stated it wasn't Harden's responsibility for that particular play where Matthews got behind everyone and had an easy layup. At first McHale only demurred and said one of the bigs should have been back to prevent a layup. Then a few seconds later when pushed again by the reporter he clearly said Asik.

It's just one of those unfortunate plays that happen in the helter skelter of the frantic final seconds of a game.

For sure McHale wanted to pressure the ball in the frontcourt and for sure that doesn't happen with slow footed bigs. If you watch the replay, you'll see Lin and Beverley were responsible for the trap and Harden was to pick off any errant pass. Not sure what you wanted Harden to do in that moment?

Sorry, I don't have the link to Coach McHale's postgame interview. 790 only played portions of it anyway. I'm sure somebody here might be able to find the link.