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@  Mario Peña : (10 October 2015 - 01:12 PM) If your part if the Red94 Fantasy Basketball League check the thread to vote for the date and time for the draft event. Thanks y'all!
@  jorgeaam : (07 October 2015 - 08:47 PM) Guys we need 1 more owner for the Red94 fantasy league, if interested please comment on the post in the fantasy basketball thread
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 06:50 PM) Kobe ranked one spot higher than Ariza? Is this based on legacy or...??
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 04:13 PM) It was hard to keep up with both the Astros and Rockets at the same time. Should be interesting on Thursday with the Texans and Astros on simultaneously.
@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Loving that, hope he hits 30 PPG this year
@  thejohnnygold : (06 October 2015 - 06:15 PM) Someone is feeling confident :) : LINK
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 05:54 PM) 10 Teams done, will need 2 more
@  Mario Peña : (06 October 2015 - 02:35 PM) Alright guys, if anyone is interested in joining the Red94 fantasy basketball league we could use one more player to get us to 10 teams (or three to get us to 12 teams). Just check the thread in the Fantasy Basketball forum. Thanks!
@  thejohnnygold : (05 October 2015 - 06:23 PM) I use leaguepass here in Austin with no problems...
@  skip 2 my lou : (05 October 2015 - 03:14 PM) Hey fellas, I'm a rocket fan but I live in the heart of Dallas. Does anybody know if I buy NBA Leaguepass if it's too close to be subject to blackouts?
@  Losthief : (02 October 2015 - 02:24 AM) tks jg
@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com
@  slick shoes : (23 September 2015 - 06:37 PM) kind of late in the day but NBATV is broadcasting classis Rockets games all day today.
@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) http://bleacherrepor...ist-after-crash
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2015 - 04:36 PM) A good article from Blinebury talking about when Hakeem and Moses used to play in the park. LINK
@  rockets best... : (14 September 2015 - 02:29 AM) I agree totally. I got to watch his Rocket days and the man was a hell of a player. BIG MO R.I.P.

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James Harden, Defensive Juggernaut for your consideration


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103 replies to this topic

#1 bladad

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    Posted 21 April 2014 - 06:03 PM


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    #2 QNoir

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      Posted 21 April 2014 - 08:59 PM

      That has pretty much been the story all season long. It's funny hearing from fans of other teams who observe it so easily, yet Houston fans get dazzled with all the shot-taking. The messed up part is that one can't help but to psychoanalyze Harden's reasoning for such poor defense as related to selfishness. He wants to be the first one down the floor on the scoring end; he wants Terrence Jones's rebounds; he wants steals. There are no visible stats for defense. Why would I read into it that way? I mean, dude was making "I'm a bad mofo" faces on an 8 for 28 performance, as early as his second made shot, which came in the 3rd quarter after going 1 for 8. That's just not likeable to me.


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      #3 Baller93

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        Posted 22 April 2014 - 12:43 AM

        Man, I just flew back into the country last night from a business trip and come back to see this.  Argh... Very bad.  This video will simply just reinforce what everybody in the league knows.  He just hates defense.  It's just not in his NBA DNA.  From middle school, high school, AAU, college, and now NBA, I suspect he was so talented offensively, no coach ever forced him to work on his defense.  And McHale is too much of a wuss to bench a guy who's having a bad shooting night.  Then again, I don't think any coach in the NBA except Popovich would have the guts to bench their offensive stud who's having a bad night.

         

        Caught the TIVO this morning and holy smokes, he was awful last night on both ends.  When you can't generate points on one end, what good is Harden?  I thought in the playoffs, he would shake off his defensive malaise some, but nope.  He can't change.  (shrug)

         

        Oh well, I still think the Rockets will win this in 6.  Nobody expected a sweep, I think.  And I suspect Harden will be back to his offensive maestro ways to offset his lack of defense.


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        #4 TheHolyBeardedOne

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        Posted 22 April 2014 - 11:59 PM

        Does anyone know Hardens defensive rating when on the floor with the Rockets?


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        #5 thejohnnygold

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        Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:52 AM

        Does anyone know Hardens defensive rating when on the floor with the Rockets?

        www.basketball-reference.com


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        #6 Mario Peña

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        Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:28 AM

        I love that the Rockets have Harden. These discussions have been going on for over a year here, it's like a record that skips. I guess some fans will always be fickle.
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        How sweet it is!

        #7 thenit

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          Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:39 AM

          The highlight reel is deceiving. However people who has defended harden keeps saying oh he will do better or try harder in the playoffs, but I didn't see it last year and game 1 he doesn't chase his man even let LMA just blow by him not trying. He is good at post ups when he doesn't have to chase but he is just lazy when he has to chase or run with his man. It's concerning if this continues. I still hope he will pick it up.
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          #8 dbd

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            Posted 23 April 2014 - 12:33 PM

            Man, I just flew back into the country last night from a business trip and come back to see this.  Argh... Very bad.  This video will simply just reinforce what everybody in the league knows.  He just hates defense.  It's just not in his NBA DNA.  From middle school, high school, AAU, college, and now NBA, I suspect he was so talented offensively, no coach ever forced him to work on his defense.  And McHale is too much of a wuss to bench a guy who's having a bad shooting night.  Then again, I don't think any coach in the NBA except Popovich would have the guts to bench their offensive stud who's having a bad night.

             

            Caught the TIVO this morning and holy smokes, he was awful last night on both ends.  When you can't generate points on one end, what good is Harden?  I thought in the playoffs, he would shake off his defensive malaise some, but nope.  He can't change.  (shrug)

             

            Oh well, I still think the Rockets will win this in 6.  Nobody expected a sweep, I think.  And I suspect Harden will be back to his offensive maestro ways to offset his lack of defense.

            Like the way you started the sentence: "I just flew back.........."

             

            You might have been in a different world for a long long time. You should know that in our society, we don't need to be a all around person.

            Good athlete got free pass since they were in schools. Google it. You will see many stories about super athlete earned 'A' on academic courses they didn't attend. Harden's mistake were not very bad compare to athlete who committed crimes but some schools, organization, and fans defended them like a saint. You may see the post like "oh you are rehashing about Harden's defense" blah blah blah. You are right that even coaches are hesitate to take on stars. It is very sad but this is what it is.


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            #9 rocketrick

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              Posted 23 April 2014 - 12:57 PM

              Like the way you started the sentence: "I just flew back.........."
               
              You might have been in a different world for a long long time. You should know that in our society, we don't need to be a all around person.
              Good athlete got free pass since they were in schools. Google it. You will see many stories about super athlete earned 'A' on academic courses they didn't attend. Harden's mistake were not very bad compare to athlete who committed crimes but some schools, organization, and fans defended them like a saint. You may see the post like "oh you are rehashing about Harden's defense" blah blah blah. You are right that even coaches are hesitate to take on stars. It is very sad but this is what it is.


              Why are you posting on the Rockets fan forum?

              You obviously despise James Harden.

              Pathetic..............

              Edited by rocketrick, 23 April 2014 - 12:58 PM.

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              #10 dbd

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                Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:16 PM

                Why are you posting on the Rockets fan forum?

                You obviously despise James Harden.

                Pathetic..............

                 

                To set the record straight, I love Harden and very happy he is a Rockets. And he stay as long as he could, won titles and retire as Rockets.

                But I don't like the way he slack on defense. He can improve for sure. At least he should be trying more.

                I am not the guy who give a free pass. I believe in accountability. 


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                #11 rocketrick

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                  Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:18 PM

                  To set the record straight, I love Harden and very happy he is a Rockets. And he stay as long as he could, won titles and retire as Rockets.
                  But I don't like the way he slack on defense. He can improve for sure. At least he should be trying more.
                  I am not the guy who give a free pass. I believe in accountability.


                  You just slandered his character and yet you expect me and others on this forum to believe that you are supposedly "a fan of Harden"

                  Dude..........
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                  #12 timetodienow1234567

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                  Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:28 PM

                  Harden has his flaws like Nash did. It doesn't take away from him being a great player.

                  But, on this forum the unwritten rule is that you cannot point out any flaw of Hardens without being dismissed and people either criticizing or ignoring you. There cannot be a civil discussion about Harden just like Lin. I try to avoid commenting about Harden and Lin for that reason.
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                  Why so Serious? :D


                  #13 Mario Peña

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                  Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:35 PM

                  Frankly guys I get annoyed how you all talk about holding your teams stars accountable. Accountable? Seriously, we are fans and that is all we are. If there is an accountability equation of an NBA player and you think you are a part of it then it is completely in your imagination. I'm with rocketrick, I just don't understand some of you.
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                  How sweet it is!

                  #14 rocketrick

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                    Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:36 PM

                    Harden has his flaws like Nash did. It doesn't take away from him being a great player.

                    But, on this forum the unwritten rule is that you cannot point out any flaw of Hardens without being dismissed and people either criticizing or ignoring you. There cannot be a civil discussion about Harden just like Lin. I try to avoid commenting about Harden and Lin for that reason.


                    Thanks for that insight although I don't agree. There is plenty of evidence that Harden doesn't expend as much energy on the defensive end as on the offensive end in this forum. Lots of statistics, analysis, lots of very well thought out discussions.

                    What pisses me off is when people take pot shots at Harden and D12, etc.

                    If the Rockets are going to go far in the Playoffs this season or the next 2-3 seasons, it is Harden and D12 that are going to play a major part in getting us there.
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                    #15 dbd

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                      Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:22 PM

                      Harden has his flaws like Nash did. It doesn't take away from him being a great player.

                      But, on this forum the unwritten rule is that you cannot point out any flaw of Hardens without being dismissed and people either criticizing or ignoring you. There cannot be a civil discussion about Harden just like Lin. I try to avoid commenting about Harden and Lin for that reason.

                      Thanks. I will follow your advice. I will not say the name again. I will use "you know who" if I really have to.  :)


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                      #16 Mario Peña

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                      Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:53 PM

                      There is a difference between critiquing a player and passing judgement on them. Making disparaging remarks about a player is not necessarily criticism and should not be defended as such.
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                      How sweet it is!

                      #17 thenit

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                        Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:52 PM

                        Thanks for that insight although I don't agree. There is plenty of evidence that Harden doesn't expend as much energy on the defensive end as on the offensive end in this forum. Lots of statistics, analysis, lots of very well thought out discussions.

                        What pisses me off is when people take pot shots at Harden and D12, etc.

                        If the Rockets are going to go far in the Playoffs this season or the next 2-3 seasons, it is Harden and D12 that are going to play a major part in getting us there.

                         

                        This is the reason I critize Harden. We goes as far as he goes. Its kind of disheartening as a fan that your star player doesn't lead by example, he is still young and we all make mistakes, but I can't defend someone who doesn't put in the effort. Like I said in my post, as a great athelete like Harden shouldn't get blowned by a LMA without even trying. If not in the playoffs when will he pick up his effort?

                         

                        D12 is important to us, but his window as an allstar is closing, and we probably got at the most 3 maybe 4 years out of him as an elite player. We know how stacked the West is so we need Harden to exert effort on D, he doesn't have to be great not even good, but just to lead by example. I've seen it a few possesions in the past 2 years when he decided to guard LBJ, but thats a like watching a comet in the sky thats the frequency of his D. For me its more about maximizing our chances in this window, and looking at the other teams I don't think we ever be a clear cut favorite because there are so many landmines in the West. Even getting a K Love or Melo would still be hard to get through the West and then play the final as well.

                         

                        I feel we can critize his effort especially when he is the one and only player who can take us to the promise land.


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                        #18 rocketrick

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                          Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:05 PM

                          This is the reason I critize Harden. We goes as far as he goes. Its kind of disheartening as a fan that your star player doesn't lead by example, he is still young and we all make mistakes, but I can't defend someone who doesn't put in the effort. Like I said in my post, as a great athelete like Harden shouldn't get blowned by a LMA without even trying. If not in the playoffs when will he pick up his effort?
                           
                          D12 is important to us, but his window as an allstar is closing, and we probably got at the most 3 maybe 4 years out of him as an elite player. We know how stacked the West is so we need Harden to exert effort on D, he doesn't have to be great not even good, but just to lead by example. I've seen it a few possesions in the past 2 years when he decided to guard LBJ, but thats a like watching a comet in the sky thats the frequency of his D. For me its more about maximizing our chances in this window, and looking at the other teams I don't think we ever be a clear cut favorite because there are so many landmines in the West. Even getting a K Love or Melo would still be hard to get through the West and then play the final as well.
                           
                          I feel we can critize his effort especially when he is the one and only player who can take us to the promise land.


                          Multiple Choice, What Should Rockets Fans Do:

                          (1) Continue Disparaging our Franchise Players D12 and Harden because no hope at all in winning a Title?

                          (2) Continue being Negative about the Rockets chances because our Young Players like Harden, are well, young and you don't think they can ever figure it out eventually?

                          (3) Fake that you are a Rockets fan although deep at heart you are a Spurs, Lakers, Thunder, Heat, et al fan?

                          (4) Accept that the Rockets team, even though still quite young in NBA terms, are a young team at Heart that perhaps over time will figure things out and become a real NBA force?

                          (5) The Rockets are going to win a Title this year no matter what?
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                          #19 thejohnnygold

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                          Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:24 PM

                          We've all seen the videos.  We've all watched the games.  Apparently I'm the only one who thinks he is protecting himself from fouls and that is more important than forcing a pass in the 2nd quarter.  (I'm not saying he is free of guilt--in fact, I was the first to call him out on his ball-watching ways.  Certainly he could be better, but the Rockets as a team are better with him and anyone who argues that...well, good luck.)

                           

                          The numbers are there:

                           

                          He sports the 2nd best Net Rating of +13 second only to T. Jones' +14.  That would be an Ortg of 120 and a Drtg of 107....that Drtg is better than Lin, Beverley, and Parsons.  Per Basketball-reference.com

                           

                          Go to mysynergysports. (many have shunned these stats, but they are endorsed by the NBA, Bill Simmons, and Zach Lowe so think what you like.  There you will see that Harden is a better defender than Lin by percentages and by volume.  Is he terrible in ISO situations?  You betcha!  However, that comprises 9% of his defense and he is above average (top third even) at everything else.

                           

                          (on a side note, PBev is ranked #7 at ISO defense....not that anyone who sees differently would believe it) 

                           

                          Meanwhile he is an elite offensive weapon--which is why it is crucial he remains on the court as much as possible.  I have read all of the small sample arguments for Lin running the show.  Last season, I thought that had some merit......I've seen enough to know better now.

                           

                          This is about Harden's defense though.  Check out 82games.com.  Harden sports the best Simple Rating (Covington doesn't count), Net Production, and just about everything else.  Harden's Opponent Production is all below league average.  The offense drops off by 7.9 points when Harden is off the court; however, the defense only shows a +.6 improvement.  That is a net of +7.3 for Harden.

                           

                          So lament his laziness, his lack of running, his futile reaching and swiping, his ball-watching, and general defensive malaise.  I will enjoy watching the Rockets play, and win, this series against Portland.  The numbers--all of the numbers--say we're better with him than without him and that his defense, while hard to watch, is effective enough to outscore most everyone else on the team regardless of what metric you use.


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                          #20 thenit

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                            Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:22 PM

                            Im not arguing that Lin should run the show, so not sure where that came from. defensive rating is not an individual stat and its hard to find defensive stats that are 100%. Never claimed Lin is a better defender or who is better or what. My beef is that he isn't even trying sometimes. Its has an effect mentally when your best player and MVP can't even try. 

                             

                            @rocketrick

                             

                            So you believe that we can't criticize a player because he is our star? Im saying that harden is without doubt a great offensive player and the best talent on our team. But you need to set an example. He is young but he's been in the league for a while and been deep in the playoffs to be able to understand what it takes. Except for LBJ and KD there is no player I trade harden for. However if we are going to win a championship he needs to lead by example. He doesn't have to be all defensive player but he needs to set the tone. I would love to be wrong and we win but chances would be higher if he played a little harder.


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