154 replies to this topic

[Steven]

MelNo

[rockets best fan]

@JG

totally on board with your line of thinking in regards to Parsons. I would only add........we have T-Jones under his rookie deal for 2 more years before we have to extend a qualifying offer to make him a RFA. to make Parsons a RFA we have to do it this year or risk losing him next year when he becomes an UFA. because of the potential of other teams getting in on the bidding and the possibility of the Rockets losing him for nothing, I don't think they will allow him to go that route. I agree he may be nearing his ceiling. T-Jones is just 21 and appears to have the higher ceiling at this point, but I also agree with you his floor right now is lower. however the potential of his ceiling is greater than Parsons value with Melo in tow. Melo will become the third scorer this team needs. a front line of D-12, T-Jones and Melo is a mismatch for any other team in the league.

 

I hear the concerns of those who oppose this trade. however none of them outweigh the raw potential that a lineup including Melo would produce. I also hear those that think there will be more desirable destinations for Melo to pursue. However chew on this for a moment.......if Melo leaves NY it's likely to be a trade, because of the teams who have money outright to sign him none can offer him the chance to compete for a championship now. they are still building and would require addition pieces. teams who would fall into this area.....Phoenix, Dallas, Boston etc.

of the teams who could offer him a chance to compete immediately ie Houston. Chicago, GSW, San Antonio, Portland.....none can match our deal to NY without drastically altering their teams. this will basically come down to what Melo wants because he is in a position to dictate to NY his wishes. sure they could let him walk and end up in the same hole as the Lakers simply because they refuse to see the handwriting on the wall, but Phil appears smarter than that to me. he will want players and draft pick to get his rebuild underway. NY has limited Draft picks right now. they don't have a pick this year. Denver owns this years first rounder....we own this years and next years second rounder's and they also don't have a first rounder in 2016. they need Draft picks no matter where in the draft they are located. sure they need them to be as high as possible, but getting any at all is improvement. they also need young players.....something we have a treasure chest of.

 

Just because it seems all the stars are lining up doesn't mean it will happen, but never say never

[blakecouey]

Multiple topics merged to consolidate all the Melo talk.

[Buckko]

I do have to say Jones' 3pt shot should improve drastically to become a real stretch 4. I'd say he shoots about league average next year and continues to improve from there.

[Buckko]

I still have the bad feeling would melo willing give up the alpha role. You can discuss Olympic melo all you want, but those are closer to pick up games than real NBA. Would melo willing become the next wade? I do have to say though, if the heat don't 3peat and with health and age against Miami. Wouldn't you try for lebron? Nice climate and no income tax like Flordia. A very young and healthy team. Lebron being much more of a play maker than scorer in melo would demand far less shots from H&H. He's already accustom to playing with an elite 2-guard. Food for thought.

[NorEastern]

@JG

totally on board with your line of thinking in regards to Parsons. I would only add........we have T-Jones under his rookie deal for 2 more years before we have to extend a qualifying offer to make him a RFA. to make Parsons a RFA we have to do it this year or risk losing him next year when he becomes an UFA. because of the potential of other teams getting in on the bidding and the possibility of the Rockets losing him for nothing, I don't think they will allow him to go that route. I agree he may be nearing his ceiling. T-Jones is just 21 and appears to have the higher ceiling at this point, but I also agree with you his floor right now is lower. however the potential of his ceiling is greater than Parsons value with Melo in tow. Melo will become the third scorer this team needs. a front line of D-12, T-Jones and Melo is a mismatch for any other team in the league.

 

I hear the concerns of those who oppose this trade. however none of them outweigh the raw potential that a lineup including Melo would produce. I also hear those that think there will be more desirable destinations for Melo to pursue. However chew on this for a moment.......if Melo leaves NY it's likely to be a trade, because of the teams who have money outright to sign him none can offer him the chance to compete for a championship now. they are still building and would require addition pieces. teams who would fall into this area.....Phoenix, Dallas, Boston etc.

of the teams who could offer him a chance to compete immediately ie Houston. Chicago, GSW, San Antonio, Portland.....none can match our deal to NY without drastically altering their teams. this will basically come down to what Melo wants because he is in a position to dictate to NY his wishes. sure they could let him walk and end up in the same hole as the Lakers simply because they refuse to see the handwriting on the wall, but Phil appears smarter than that to me. he will want players and draft pick to get his rebuild underway. NY has limited Draft picks right now. they don't have a pick this year. Denver owns this years first rounder....we own this years and next years second rounder's and they also don't have a first rounder in 2016. they need Draft picks no matter where in the draft they are located. sure they need them to be as high as possible, but getting any at all is improvement. they also need young players.....something we have a treasure chest of.

 

Just because it seems all the stars are lining up doesn't mean it will happen, but never say never

I assume you realize that the Rockets would still have Parsons Bird rights when he hits UFA next summer? Isn't that the perfect way to dodge the salary cap and sign a top 10 small forward? Parsons, at least right now, is a much more valuable player than Jones. I do not see that changing in the foreseeable future. Not to mention the whole off court glue guy assistant super star recruiter stuff.

 

Parsons is also considerably more consistent than Jones. And Jones has well documented defensive problems. Parsons is not a plus defender, except when compared to Jones.

 

Plus there is the whole rebounding issue to consider. Boxing out is obviously not a Jones priority. Jones has many issues as a NBA player. Just saying.

[Cooper]

Anyone with cap will try for lebron but its basically a lock he's back in miami.

[Buckko]

If they 3peat, why would he leave, but I see the trophy residing in the west this year, and like I said. Each year the heat get worst due to declining health (wades' knees) and age. Even with the beaches of Miami, the heat aren't nearly the attractive destination as it was 4 years ago unless Pat Reliy completely revamps the team around lebron. Anyway, not something I'm arguing for as it is mostly a pipe dream and this topic is for melo. Just food for thought.

[Buckko]

I assume you realize that the Rockets would still have Parsons Bird rights when he hits UFA next summer? Isn't that the perfect way to dodge the salary cap and sign a top 10 small forward? Parsons, at least right now, is a much more valuable player than Jones. I do not see that changing in the foreseeable future. Not to mention the whole off court glue guy assistant super star recruiter stuff.

Parsons is also considerably more consistent than Jones. And Jones has well documented defensive problems. Parsons is not a plus defender, except when compared to Jones.

Plus there is the whole rebounding issue to consider. Boxing out is obviously not a Jones priority. Jones has many issues as a NBA player. Just saying.

He is very young with a hardworking attitude though and I've seen much better pick&roll defense out if him lately. Boxing out for defensive rebounds, better defensive understandings and rotations, and a faster release and more accurate long ball should be his offseason priorities.

[QNoir]

I think Phil and NY would possibly take Lin's contract along with Parsons and TJ for Melo and a guard in a sign and trade, if Melo is truly on his way out. Am I doing this wrong? I wouldn't claim to be a couch GM at all.

Edited by QNoir, 21 March 2014 - 12:16 AM.

[Buckko]

I wouldn't be willing to give up parsons and jones.

[rockets best fan]

@NorEastern

there are only two times bird rights mean something

1. if a player is considered a max player, because it means the team who possesses them can pay him more money than any other team and in some cases to an extra year on his contract

2. when a team is over the cap or tax threshold and would not have the money under normal procedures to sign said player, they can surpass these limits using bird rights to retain said player.

 

 

in Parsons case......if the Rockets ride out the last year of his contract(which part of it is already guaranteed by him being on the roster pass Jan 15) he will be an UFA. since Parson isn't a max player the contract he will draw can vary greatly according to who's bidding. there is a point where he can become to expensive for the Rockets to retain reasonably. in addition.....even if the Rockets match any offers on the table, Parsons will still have the freedom to leave if he so chooses. so the only way the Rockets can guarantee to either retain Parsons or at least get a return asset for him is by making him a RFA this summer or trading him before his contract expires.

 

on T-Jones.........YES I agree Parsons in the better player right now. however T-Jones has a lot more room to grow whereas Parsons is nearing his ceiling. with Melo in tow Parsons will be replaced by a better player in the starting lineup while still allowing us to keep cheap yet outstanding talent at the PF spot in T-Jones and D-Mo. when I say it's better to trade Parsons that has nothing to do with sizing him up against T-Jones, it has to do with the pieces left after the trade. I would much rather see Melo, T-Jones and D-12 over Parsons, Melo and D-12. to me that first group is explosive now with potential to get even better as T-Jones matures.

[NorEastern]

@NorEastern

there are only two times bird rights mean something

1. if a player is considered a max player, because it means the team who possesses them can pay him more money than any other team and in some cases to an extra year on his contract

2. when a team is over the cap or tax threshold and would not have the money under normal procedures to sign said player, they can surpass these limits using bird rights to retain said player.

 

 

in Parsons case......if the Rockets ride out the last year of his contract(which part of it is already guaranteed by him being on the roster pass Jan 15) he will be an UFA. since Parson isn't a max player the contract he will draw can vary greatly according to who's bidding. there is a point where he can become to expensive for the Rockets to retain reasonably. in addition.....even if the Rockets match any offers on the table, Parsons will still have the freedom to leave if he so chooses. so the only way the Rockets can guarantee to either retain Parsons or at least get a return asset for him is by making him a RFA this summer or trading him before his contract expires.

 

on T-Jones.........YES I agree Parsons in the better player right now. however T-Jones has a lot more room to grow whereas Parsons is nearing his ceiling. with Melo in tow Parsons will be replaced by a better player in the starting lineup while still allowing us to keep cheap yet outstanding talent at the PF spot in T-Jones and D-Mo. when I say it's better to trade Parsons that has nothing to do with sizing him up against T-Jones, it has to do with the pieces left after the trade. I would much rather see Melo, T-Jones and D-12 over Parsons, Melo and D-12. to me that first group is explosive now with potential to get even better as T-Jones matures.

Ahh yes. UFA. But why would Parsons ever leave Houston for the same money? Maybe he wants to pursue a modeling and acting career in LA? It certainly would not be for better company, a more respected coach, more money or a better chance at the chip. Dare I say home team discount?

 

IMHO people constantly over rate Jones. Yeah he may be athletic and quick, but he has not shown the slightest clue on defense. He is not big enough (and may never be big enough) to hold position down low with the likes of West. And he is not quick enough to stay with power forwards like Blake. Have you noticed that he never seems to "go off" against the better power forwards in the league? Is he more likely to go off for 30 against Utah, or to give up 10 quick first quarter points to Blake? And may I point out that Jones is currently in his fourth year of excellent coaching and great competition with Kentucky and the Rockets? D-Mo (who should probably be starting, but is to valuable as a backup center/PF on the bench) is in his second year of competitive competition and coaching. No, Prokom cannot be considered as either. Between the three, trade Jones and hold on to D-Mo and Parsons. How valuable is a top ten small forward in the NBA? Is not D-MO on schedule to become by far and away the best NBA back up center in 2015 when Asik leaves?

 

I will leave you to ponder that question.

[Drew in Abilene]

Even as a chronic optimist, I have a hard time believing Parsons would take a hometown discount. He's been called the most underpaid player in the NBA/the league's best value contract for a couple of years now. It doesn't make much sense to me that he would turn down a couple extra million per year when he's already been performing at a level much greater than his pay scale.

 

Weighing in on the broader topic, I'm of two opinions about bringing in Anthony. The analytic brain in me says to sell high, grab Melo, and become one of the top contenders in the West, if not the favorite. Offload Lin and Asik, and if it takes Jones or Parsons plus a first round pick to grease the wheels, so be it. That's the cost of doing business and you go for any move that improves your short term and long term prospects of winning it all.

 

But my dang sentimental heart gets in the way. My heart doesn't care that Lin has slumped since the All-Star Break (Except for these last couple of games!). I want him to play for the Rockets, win a championship with us this year, and help us defend the title next year with a Sixth Man of the Year trophy to boot. My heart refuses to give up on Asik, even if he gave up on Houston for a while. Did you see the passion he played with the other night with Dwight cheering him on? Those dunks? That block?! I want him to win it all this year, then publicly say he doesn't want to be traded because he wants another ring with us in 2015. "Jones is so young and full of potential," my heart keeps saying. He's got the tools to become an incredible player next to Howard. What happens once he figures out defense and starts hitting from three at a better rate? Yeah, my brain knows Parsons will probably never be as valuable in a trade as he will be this off-season. But my heart cries out that he's a big reason for Houston's success this year and last. He texted Dwight enough to help bring him here! He shaved his head for a sick kid! Edit: Don't even get me started on D-Mo. He might be my favortie Rocket right now.

 

I don't say this to advocate one way or another. I know that I have no bearing on these decisions, so it's of no use to me to create a bodily civil war between my heart and head. I simply write to acknowledge that I'm torn asunder by the trade rumors. Perhaps my chronic optimism will kick in in the aftermath, whether Melo moves to Houston or the players I've grown ever so fond of stick around.

[Buckko]

Its much easier to cheer for a young and developing team then one of superstars budding up, surrounded by mercenaries. 

 

This post-season will determine the offseason.

Edited by Buckko, 22 March 2014 - 02:59 AM.

[thejohnnygold]

I had an eloquent response I was about to post and then my browser crashed so here are the key notes:

 

Drew, I agree and would prefer to win with these guys.  If we do trade for Melo I think Parsons is the player with the most value and the one we can most afford to lose.  (still hurts to say it)

 

NorEastern, Jones has 2 years at Kentucky, 1 year in the D-League, and a combined 82 NBA games under his belt including last years' games.

 

Parsons is in year 7 of excellent coaching if we use college years too.  Billy Donovan is no slouch at UF.

 

Comparing Jones and his 1 year of actual NBA experience to Blake Griffin (4 years in NBA and a #1 pick), LaMarcus Aldridge (8 years in NBA and a #2 pick), Kevin Love (6 NBA years--4 1/2 years worth of games-- and a #5 pick), or any other Western Conference stud PF like Ibaka, Duncan, Gasol, Randolph, Nowitzki, Anthony Davis (how good is he going to be?!?!?), etc. is not very fair in my opinion given that he is essentially a rookie to the NBA.

 

The way I see it is as a 4th/5th wheel playing around that trio (Harden, Howard, Anthony) he would fit better, contribute more of what is missing, and still has that very high ceiling that he can then develop into.  Parsons will be somewhat neutered by the move in my opinion as he does not do as well playing off the ball as Jones.

 

This is of course all speculation about speculation and rumors so it really doesn't matter.  Just stating my opinion.  I'm perfectly happy keeping Parsons AND Jones and winning some championships.  I think that is very doable in a season or 2.

 

I'm glad I am not the one who has to actually make the call.  If I'm New York, I push as hard as I can to get them both.

[rockets best fan]

@NorEastern

I agree with Drew on Parsons taking a discount. it's highly unlikely. if the Rockets want to keep Parsons they must ante up. I expect him to make something in the 9-12 mil per range depending on who's bidding......and there will be bidders. if Parsons goes over 12 mil per I expect the Rockets to let him walk. remember how Boston was trying to get him at the deadline? remember how Minny gave a max offer sheet to Batum forcing Portland to match? Parsons will be in demand. that's why I expect the Rockets to decided his fate this summer. riding his contract out has risk. I'm sure the Rockets felt they were going to sign Dragic when he hit UFA, but it didn't happen. to risk losing Parsons for nothing (which would leave a hole at SF) trying to chase a bigger fish is not something I think Morey will do. Yes he will still chase the big fish, but after Dragic I don't think he will give the UFA another go.

 

as for T-Jones..........I don't know why you don't like him, but you are entitled to your opinion on him. we don't  view him the same way. while you are busy pointing out his faults you left off all of the things he does well. did you really expect a second year player who is getting his first full year playing to blow Blake Griffin out of the gym? T-Jones isn't the only  one who Blake Griffin scores on. he's a max contract player for a reason. it's a fact that the western conference is stacked with star PF's. T-Jones is learning how to play against these guys and you don't earn your strips without taking a few butt whippings. I like how he progressing.

 

you beat me to the punch again JG

 

NorEastern this isn't a competition between Parsons and T-Jones. I agree with JG I like them both, but if we are talking about Melo in tow.....and we need to give up one of the two in the deal.....I would rather see us keep T-Jones

[Cooper]

Blake has been the third best player in the league this year, he used to be way overrated but he's filled out his game a ton and isn't rattled by contact and the cheap shots he takes down low anymore. 

[NorEastern]

Everyone, great responses to my Parsons giving a hometown discount remark. We won't know till we know.

 

The summer of 2015. What a critical time for the Rockets. Morey's salary plans coming to a head. Parsons heading into UFA. Howard and Harden under contract, the same for D-Mo and Jones. The critical issue that summer is that Morey can offer a near max contract to someone in an excellent free agent market. Love? And then match any offer for Parsons that seems reasonable. Maximum flexibility. Plus a get out of jail free card to to wantonly exceed the CBA cap with the signing of Parsons. And still stay under the luxury tax. We can speculate. Morey will make the right decision.

[Sir Thursday]

I had an eloquent response I was about to post and then my browser crashed so here are the key notes:

 

Drew, I agree and would prefer to win with these guys.  If we do trade for Melo I think Parsons is the player with the most value and the one we can most afford to lose.  (still hurts to say it)

 

NorEastern, Jones has 2 years at Kentucky, 1 year in the D-League, and a combined 82 NBA games under his belt including last years' games.

 

Parsons is in year 7 of excellent coaching if we use college years too.  Billy Donovan is no slouch at UF.

 

Comparing Jones and his 1 year of actual NBA experience to Blake Griffin (4 years in NBA and a #1 pick), LaMarcus Aldridge (8 years in NBA and a #2 pick), Kevin Love (6 NBA years--4 1/2 years worth of games-- and a #5 pick), or any other Western Conference stud PF like Ibaka, Duncan, Gasol, Randolph, Nowitzki, Anthony Davis (how good is he going to be?!?!?), etc. is not very fair in my opinion given that he is essentially a rookie to the NBA.

 

The way I see it is as a 4th/5th wheel playing around that trio (Harden, Howard, Anthony) he would fit better, contribute more of what is missing, and still has that very high ceiling that he can then develop into.  Parsons will be somewhat neutered by the move in my opinion as he does not do as well playing off the ball as Jones.

 

This is of course all speculation about speculation and rumors so it really doesn't matter.  Just stating my opinion.  I'm perfectly happy keeping Parsons AND Jones and winning some championships.  I think that is very doable in a season or 2.

 

I'm glad I am not the one who has to actually make the call.  If I'm New York, I push as hard as I can to get them both.

 

See when I'm envisioning Carmelo on the Rockets I am thinking of him strictly as a 4. In today's NBA, playing tweeners at the 3 is a BAD idea (see Smith, Josh). When the Knicks were having success with Anthony last season it was because they were playing him at PF and forcing teams to pick between using a smaller or slower defender on him. But if you put him at SF all that goes away because the opposing team will have two bigger guys to wall off the paint and make life difficult for him. And that's not even beginning to talk about the defensive end, where Melo will struggle against quick motion on the perimeter as an SF but will be much more of an asset as a PF defender.

 

If we were to trade Parsons but keep Jones, then IMO we would need to bring in an SF to fill the void Parsons leaves behind and would be playing Jones at backup PF. I'm not sure that's the best course of action. Better to have a starting five of Beverley/Harden/Parsons/Carmelo/Howard that fits really well together rather than having to develop another glue guy to plug into the lineup. 

 

Jones may blossom into a star - that's great! But we don't need more than one star per position. So either we develop Jones or we trade for Carmelo, but IMO going both is not a good call.

 

ST