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@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
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@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
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Kevin McHale- Whats the Verdict? Is he the right guy?


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#1 uojoe82

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    Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:23 PM

    So what's the verdict on McHale? Can he coach? Is he the best coach for this team? 

     

    The western conference is stacked with great coaches. Popovich, Rivers, and Brooks are great coaches with extensive playoff (and championship) experience. Terry Stotts and Jeff Hornacek have taken teams that were in the lottery last year and have them in the thick of the playoff race. Carlisle has a championship ring and has won several playoff series. I'm not sure about D'Antoni but he's won playoff series before and the fact that the Lakers aren't the worst team in the West given there roster and injuries this year has to be respected. 

     

    The Rockets have arguably 2 of the best 10 players in the league. That means that most nights they have the 2 best players on the court when the game starts. The Rockets recently went 8-2 in February and of the 10 games, only against the Clippers it could be argued that the Rockets didn't have the 2 best players. And they lost. They also lost to  the Warriors (Curry, Harden, Howard, not sure who the best 2 are). 

     

    What I'm asking is that with this roster shouldn't they have a better record? If they end up in the 4-5 playoff match-up there's a good possibility that they don't make it to the second round (especially if the opponent is the Clippers). A first round exit is the same result as the previous season. That would have to be considered as a major failure given that they added the best center in the league. 

     

    Playoffs come down to coaching, knowing when to coach and when not to coach (overcoaching), and late game execution. The Rockets late game failures are well known and documented. Can we count on McHale to manage the last 2 minutes of the game? Or will he sit back and let Harden go into iso mode? Can Mchale draw up plays? Will he run plays for the hot hand (even if its not Harden)? What will he do if teams resort to Hack-A-Howard and D12 struggles at the line? 

     

    An inexperienced (playoff) coach can rely on a floor leader (PG) to execute plays at the end of the game. Unfortunately the Rockets do not have a playmaker/floor leader at the PG position. I think that Lin has that potential, but his relegation to the bench and recent slump/struggles will make him obsolete at the end of games coming down the stretch and into the playoffs. Beverley is a very limited player and his deficiencies are going to be a weakness in the playoffs. The west is loaded with All-Stars at the PG position and in the playoffs these PG's are going to be able to rest on the defensive end since Beverley's role on offense is to dribble past half court and pass to Harden then find a spot behind the 3 point line. 

     

    Lin has all the skills and qualities to be a good PG. Maybe not All-Star but the next tier down. Instead of using the regular season to develop him McHale has slowly reduced his role as the playoffs get closer. This is fatal for a player that feeds off confidence. 

     

    For as great as McHale is for big men I think he is horrible for PG's. Goran Dragic and Kyle Lowry have both experienced there best seasons 2 years removed from McHale. This has to be a concern. Coaches often get accolades for being able to develop talent. But shouldnt they get criticized when good players regress? Lin's time with the Knicks gave us a good indication of the player he could be. He came to the Rockets and he's regressed 2 years in a row. If he isnt traded this summer I can only imagine what his role will be. Think of his position on the team prior to the 2012-13 season (pre-Harden trade). He was the face of the team and started 82 straight games. This season (pre all-star break) he bounced around as a starter and legitimate 6th man of the year candidate. Now he is a role player getting 15-18 minutes a night. Whats happening? Why is Lin the only player who gets benched when he doesnt play well to start. Parsons, Harden, and even Beverley get 35-40 minutes of playing time even when they struggle. 

     

    I constantly see posts from people saying the Rockets should've kept Dragic or Lowry. But lets not kid ourselves thinking that the Dragic or Lowry we see today would be the same Lowry or Dragic under McHale.

     

    In conclusion this season and how the playoffs end will be a great indicator of if McHale is the right guy. If the Rockets dont make a long playoff run then I think McHale isnt the right guy. There are better coaches (who are unemployed) out there. I'm not confident in McHales ability at all and pray that the Rockets dont see the Clippers in round 1. 

     


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    #2 Cooper

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      Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:52 PM

      I don't think our roster is as top to bottom talented  as okc and is about on par with the clips portland and GS as all of them have 2 stars and quality players around them which is basically what the standing show. Playoff success will be more on the players (specifically Howard and Harden) than coach mchale. Unless they get swept in the first round on the back of obvious in game coaching errors, I don't buy into the rhetoric that Lin is unfairly treated by mchale or on a shorter leash than the other main contributors. There isn't anyone worth playing behind Harden or Parsons unless Hamilton can keep up the early pace he has set so its hard to bench them even when they are not playing as well as one would hope while mchale can ride the hot hand of Beverley or Lin. Who are theses unemployed wonder coaches outhere, I can't think of any big names?


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      #3 rockets best fan

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      Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:21 PM

      @uojoe82

      I don't know if the post is an indictment of McHale as much as it's a pity shower for J-Lin :lol: all this unfair treatment you say Lin is getting.........I don't see it. his play lately has stunk........he deserves to have his behind super glued to the pine. if it were left up to me Canaan would be getting some burn with Lin's minutes. while I'm not a McHale fan, I do agree with his handling of Lin. SORRY but there is no time for us to hold Lin's hand in a cume-ba-ha moment :lol: this is the NBA. Lin either earns his right to play or get out of the way. I'm not one who believes in excuses.

       

      as for McHale...........he getting better. I have been critical of him in the past, but he getting better. I see growth. I'm still not ready to put all the eggs in his baskets yet, however I think he is growing along with this team. I have adopted more of a wait and see approach with him. I will agree we should have 3-4 more wins, but some of those games were do to chemistry issues in addition to bad coaching and we seem to be able to win those kinds of games now. good example the Orlando game last night. we would  have lost that game early in the season


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      you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


      #4 Mario Peña

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      Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:05 PM

      Like rockets best fan I also don't get the emphasis on Lin here in this topic. If you want to critique McHale that strikes me as a pathetic angle to take but hey I guess that's important to the person who posted the topic.

       

      As for McHale, he is doing just fine. I have written it numerous times but I'll write it again and maybe it will get read. The Rockets core of Howard and Harden are in their first season together. The cores of the following teams have multiple years together plus meaningful playoff experience, Clippers, Thunder, Spurs and the Warriors. Lillard, Batum and Aldridge are in their second year together as a trio. Is it not obvious that the other legitimate Western Conference contenders have experience together and are years ahead of the Rockets in forming chemistry on and off the court? How could a fan that is knowledgeable about NBA basketball in their right mind compare the Rockets and McHale to the Thunder and Scotty Brooks?


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      How sweet it is!

      #5 uojoe82

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        Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:31 PM

        Byron Scott, Van Gundy Bros, Nate McMillan, Phil Jackson. Dunleavy. All coaches without jobs that have playoff and championship games experience. 

         

        In my post I hoped to convey 2 points-

         

        1) Can McHale "coach" this team to a deep playoff run? What he's done the past 2 years tells me no. His offense is centered on James Harden and D12 in the post. In the playoffs over a 7 game series elite coaches will figure out how to take that away from the Rockets. Then what? We've seen what happens late in games against good/great teams when Harden struggles. 

         

        2) No point guards have success under Mchale. Lin should've been given some margin for error during the regular season in order to develop into a playoff caliber starting PG. Instead McHale shortens his leash at every opportunity. Beverley (anti Lin) fans will say that Beverley has succeeded as a PG in McHales system. I counter that by saying that he's not even a PG in the current system. He's just the shortest starter on the Rockets. Lin as his flaws; too streaky of a shooter and some of his turnovers are just plain dumb. But is his defense that much worse than Bev's ? I would say no, Bev is just a flashier defender which on TV looks like he is a better defender. Since the beginning of Feb starting opposing PG's (in games where Bev started) have averaged 17 points and 6 assists. That segment of games included some pretty horrible starting PG's (Ricky Rubio, Ronnie Price, Chalmers, Kendall Marshall). In return Beverley contributed 10 points a 3 assists per game. My point is that even though Lin has struggled recently, Beverley is not performing well enough to deserve that many minutes while a struggling but better PG sits. 

         

        Am I a Lin fan? Yes. We all saw what he did in NY and with the Rockets when he is given the freedom to run the offense and make mistakes. There's too much evidence that says that Lin is a good and sometimes great PG and watching him sit while Beverley plays huge minutes makes me question McHale. Beverley is a good role player. He's not a starting PG. He wouldn't even start on any team in the NBA that currently has a winning record (other than the Rockets). The upcoming playoffs will reveal that Beverley cant be a starting PG for a playoff team let alone a team with championship aspirations and its McHales fault for not doing something about it in the regular season (develop Lin). 


        Edited by uojoe82, 06 March 2014 - 09:32 PM.

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        #6 uojoe82

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          Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:44 PM

          I don't buy the argument that teams with new stars need time to build chemistry and win. The Rockets are a tiebreaker away with the blazers from being the 5th seed right now (and its taken an amazing run since feb 1 to get here). 

           

          The 2007-08 Boston Celtics were the 1 seed and won a championship there first year together. the 2011-12 Heat were the 1 seed and lost in the finals. There's precedent that when you bring stars together then they can win right away. And the arguement that Harden missed a lot of games this year is bogus because the Rockets won most of those games. 

           

          And another thing. The arguement that teams need more than 1 season to "come together" is flawed. Do the Spurs, Blazers, and Clippers have more experience together among there core players, Yes. But guess what? Next year they'll have another year of experience together so the'll be even better under this flawed premise. 


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          #7 uojoe82

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            Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:52 PM

            Like rockets best fan I also don't get the emphasis on Lin here in this topic. If you want to critique McHale that strikes me as a pathetic angle to take but hey I guess that's important to the person who posted the topic.

             

            As for McHale, he is doing just fine. I have written it numerous times but I'll write it again and maybe it will get read. The Rockets core of Howard and Harden are in their first season together. The cores of the following teams have multiple years together plus meaningful playoff experience, Clippers, Thunder, Spurs and the Warriors. Lillard, Batum and Aldridge are in their second year together as a trio. Is it not obvious that the other legitimate Western Conference contenders have experience together and are years ahead of the Rockets in forming chemistry on and off the court? How could a fan that is knowledgeable about NBA basketball in their right mind compare the Rockets and McHale to the Thunder and Scotty Brooks?

            Rockets compared to the Thunder? Why cant I compare the two?

             

            Look at the Roster's

             

            Thunder Starters

            Reggie Jackson/ Russell Westbrook (only played around 30 games this year, not at 100%)

            Thabo

            Durant

            Serge

            Perkins

             

            Bench

             

            Fisher

            COllison

            S. Adams

            Jeremy Lamb.

             

             

            Rockets

             

            Bev

            Harden 

            Parsons

            T Jones

            D12

             

            Bench

             

            Lin

            D MO

            Asik

            Garcia/Hamilton

             

             

            Between the two rosters looks like the Rockets have the better team (factoring in Westbrooks injury). However the Thunder have the better record.


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            #8 thejohnnygold

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            Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:52 PM

            I agree with RBF and FSS.

             

            To answer the question about should we have 4-5 more wins....I'd say we would if our "6th man of the year" wasn't busy making Rafer Alston, Matt Maloney, and Bryce Drew seem like better options at back up point guard than himself.

             

            I know Lin is better than he has been playing lately, but the good games, more and more, are proving to be the exceptions to the rule.

             

            Saying that Dragic and Lowry were stifled under McHale ignores facts and reality.  They prospered under McHale--which is what led to us being able to trade for a first rounder and for Dragic to get a sizable contract offer from Phoenix.  But yes, let's believe that a coach who's job depends on the success of his team would sabotage his players because he obviously still holds a grudge against Dennis Johnson from back in his playing days :rolleyes: .

             

            McHale isn't playing Lin because Lin is the one who appears to be sabotaging the team.  Since his minutes have been drastically cut (6 games ago) his turnover rate per36 minutes would be around 6/game.  He's cramming a whole game's worth into his 15-20 minutes.  He's had 2 total steals in those 6 games.  He has shot a combined 10-36 during this stretch for a 27.8 fg%.  He is also going to the foul line once per game.  The only redeeming quality is the 3 assists per game he is averaging; however, if you remove his one 6 assist game that drops to 2/game.  His plus/minus for the month of March: -19.  It's real, real bad for Jeremy right now.  Blame McHale if you want, but I commend him for not letting the pressure of a big contract, high profile player force his hand.

             

            If his back is sore he needs to rest it as he is completely ineffective right now.  Is it possible for Canaan to play worse than Lin is right now?

             

            I am still a fan of McHale.  I like his style and am not worried about him getting out-coached in the playoffs.  I expect it the same way I expect us to come up short at some point against a team like OKC or LAC.  It's not an indictment of our team or coaches. 


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            #9 uojoe82

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              Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:59 PM

              One last point about McHales deficiency as a coach.

               

              The "spin" on starting Beverley over Lin is that Beverley plays better with Harden because Beverley doesn't need/want the ball. This whole rational is flawed because now you're catering the roster to satisfy the selfishness of the best player. We've already seen this happen to the Knicks. 

               

              There are plenty of examples of teams with two good/great wings/guards that start. 

               

              The Heat are able to start both Lebron and Wade without one compromising the effectiveness of the other, 

               

              The Thunder have an elite scorer at PG and on the WIng. Durant and Westbrook have shown that they can both be successful at the same time without one moving to the bench. Im not implying that Lin is Westbrook or Wade but what I am saying is that a good coach can find a way for the best 5 players to play at the same time. 

               

              Whats going to happen when Howard starts asking for more post plays? Is he going to go to the bench in favor of Asik because Asik doesnt need the ball to be successful?


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              #10 txtdo1411

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              Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:01 PM

              uojoe funny that you bring up the Heat's first season together. They finished second in the East with a record of 58-24... We are 42-19 through 61 games. Take a wild guess at what the Heat's record was through 61 games... 43-18! One game off their pace. Also take into consideration that they played in the East, and we are battling one of the strongest Western Conferences ever. It is not a flawed argument at all to say teams have an adjustment period when acclimating to a new player. It has actually been proven time and time again. We are way ahead of schedule with our development as a team, and this thread is pretty ridiculous to be completely honest. We lost some easy ones at the beginning of the year due to various things. We have had time to adjust, and we are no longer losing those types of games. Thats all you can ask from a team and coach. 


              Edited by txtdo1411, 06 March 2014 - 10:04 PM.

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              #11 txtdo1411

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              Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:20 PM

              One last point about McHales deficiency as a coach.

               

              The "spin" on starting Beverley over Lin is that Beverley plays better with Harden because Beverley doesn't need/want the ball. This whole rational is flawed because now you're catering the roster to satisfy the selfishness of the best player. We've already seen this happen to the Knicks. 

               

              There are plenty of examples of teams with two good/great wings/guards that start. 

               

              The Heat are able to start both Lebron and Wade without one compromising the effectiveness of the other, 

               

              The Thunder have an elite scorer at PG and on the WIng. Durant and Westbrook have shown that they can both be successful at the same time without one moving to the bench. Im not implying that Lin is Westbrook or Wade but what I am saying is that a good coach can find a way for the best 5 players to play at the same time. 

               

              Whats going to happen when Howard starts asking for more post plays? Is he going to go to the bench in favor of Asik because Asik doesnt need the ball to be successful?

               

              There are soooooo many things that are wrong with this post. I like Lin, but he isn't even close to the player that Westbrook and Wade are. In my opinion he isn't even the 5th best player on this team, and even if he is, it is very debatable. You have Harden, Howard, Parsons, Asik, and I would probably put Jones above him at this point. Lin is in a horrible funk. What do you want McHale to do? Let Lin suck it up until we lose a couple times because of it? He is still getting playing time even with how ineffective he has been. If he ever actually gets it going again, his playing time would surely increase. You can't knock a coach for maximizing the talent he has on the roster. Lin was/used to be better suited to run the second unit, so thats how McHale used him. Look at the stats from when Lin was starting compared to when Beverley starts. We are a better unit offensively and defensively with Beverley starting and Lin coming off the bench. 

               

              Harden is a play maker, not just a pure scorer like Carmelo. When you have a great play maker that also can score pretty much a will, you get the ball in his hands... it is that simple. 


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              #12 rockets best fan

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              Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:23 PM

              @oujoe82

              It's obvious you're a LOF, so considering what I could say about Lin.....I'll try to be kind. the Rockets are on a good role right now even with Lin (our sixth man)  playing like crap. Lin is in his second full year in the league, but instead of blossoming he has regressed. I have never been a fan of his even though I hoped he would blossom because he was on my favorite team. Lin is a mediocre PG at best. we may already be looking at his ceiling. consistent play would seem to be beyond his reach. he has had his chances, now when the team could use him most he has vanished like cotton candy left with a 7 year old :lol: he seems to have lost confidence. while his game has never been that good to me, the little bit he did have going for him is being crushed by lack of confidence. YES Lin is a good teammate, locker room guy and overall person, but that still doesn't make him a good basketball player. looking for other reasons to justify his poor play outside of looking at him is shallow. he is the biggest reason his playing time is declining...............not P-Bev, McHale or anybody else. I am hoping he gets his chit together before the playoffs but the prognosis isn't promising. I would go as far to say if he was fulfilling his role right now we would be on another level chemistry wise right now. so if you're looking for someone to blame...............look no further than Lin 


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              you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


              #13 uojoe82

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                Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:33 PM

                Why does everyone focus on turnovers so much? Look at the teams that lead the league in TO's and the teams that lead the league in fewest TO's

                 

                Fewest-

                Charlotte

                New York

                Memphis

                Dallas

                New Orleans

                 

                Most-

                Philadelphia

                Houston

                OKC

                GS

                LA Lakers

                 

                Turnovers look awful when watching the game and are often take the blame when explaining the loss but there not nearly as bad as everyone proclaims. 

                 

                Is a Lin turnover that much worse than Harden wasting the shot clock and passing off last minute to a teammate who has to take a last second (usually contested) shot? 

                 

                I'm not saying that McHale is deliberately undermining the Rockets chance for winning because of a grudge against Lin. However what if that was somewhat true? If you've followed Lin's career and his history then you would know that no major d1 college coach offered him a scholarship despite leading his team to a state championship and being name Northern CA player of the year. Aren't college coaches jobs dependent on winning just as much as NBA coaches? And wouldn't a coach whose main priority it is to win want the best player he can get? Or would a coach overlook a a player who doesn't look like the other prototypical PG's?

                 

                McHale is taking the easy way when it comes to coaching this team. He is coaching like someone who is coaching to keep his job, not trying to take his team to the next level. What he does now is perfectly sustainable for the next few years if all you want is to be a middle of the pack playoff team. The Rockets have the talent for McHale to "roll the ball out on the court and say go" and win 50 games a year. 

                 

                Looking ahead how will the Rockets take the next step? Are they hoping for the Spurs to eventually fall off from the top in order to take the next step? Will the Rockets ever surpass the Thunder or the Clippers. Whose future looks brighter? Portland or Houston? The Blazers have the next great PG, a top 3 PF in his prime, and a still young do-it-all SF in Batum. Add to that nucleus complimentary players such as Lopez, Wes Matthews, Mo Williams and CJ McCollum and they have a very bright future. The Rockets have an emerging star in Harden, but how much better can we expect him to be? He's already and elite scorer. Howard is great but he's got a lot of miles on him. As a player who is 99% reliant on athleticism will he get better or is he at his peak (or past his peak). Once they sign Parson's long term there wont be much left to get anyone else even if they can shed Asik and Lin's salary. All this talk of Kevin Love is plain silly. 

                 

                I only talk about the future because this team can wait til next year or the year after to "come together". 5 Years ago the blazers were the hottest team in the league with talent everywhere and everyone said that with a little playoff experience they would win championships. We all saw what happened and what can happen. 

                 

                The Rockets have the players to contend right now. 


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                #14 rockets best fan

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                Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:47 PM

                @oujoe82

                "I'm not saying McHale is deliberately undermining the Rockets chance for winning because of a grudge against Lin. however what if that was somewhat true"

                 

                that statement discredits everything else you have said.


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                you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                #15 uojoe82

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                  Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:51 PM

                  Am I a Lin apologist?

                   

                  Sort of.

                   

                  If you were to take all the starting PG's in the NBA (and include Lin) and rank them from top to bottom I'm pretty sure that Lin would be on the bottom half. But I'm 100% certain that Beverley would be in the bottom 3 (or 5 if I'm being generous). What I'm trying to say is that while Lin's recent struggles warrant less minutes, it doesnt warrant less minutes and more minutes for a player like Beverley. 

                   

                  The Rockets are winning. This can't be disputed. So the timeliness of my posts might be not ideal. But lets look closer at who the Rockets have been winning against since the beginning of February.

                   

                  Since Feb 1, 2014 the rockets are 11-2. Of those 11 wins on 4 have come against teams currently in the playoffs (Suns x2, Wizards, & Heat). They have also lost twice to playoff teams during that stretch (Clippers, Warriors). The remaining 7 games have come against teams well out of the playoff race. So even though the Rockets have won 11 of 13 lets not print those 2013-14 NBA Champs T-Shirt yet.

                   

                  If Lin's minutes were going to a legitimate starting PG, then I would have no arguement or disagreement with McHales handling of him. But there not. Lin is sitting in favor of Beverley. Beverley is who he is. A pesky defender who can hit the open 3 pointer and defers to Harden on offense. But lets not pretend that Beverley is a good player. He is a good role player. He is very limited and his defense is average at best. Yes he presses full court and it looks like he's giving opposing PG a nightmare but at the end of the night the box score says differently. Opposing PG's are just a little more tired when the games over.

                   

                  Someone mentioned that Lin's bad games are now the norm. Really? Even despite this slump his numbers are still better than Beverley's and you cant say Beverley's defense is far superior because no data supports that old claim. 


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                  #16 thejohnnygold

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                  Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:52 PM

                  Turnovers are a product of many things and can be tolerable.  Morey (and now Hinkie in Philly) look at it as collateral damage in a high variance offensive philosophy.  As long as the efficiency is high it is fine to lose out on possessions.  The problem with Lin's turnovers is the counter-balance does not exist.  He isn't providing an efficient offensive anything to balance out the loss of possessions.

                   

                  ESPN just posted this article today.  It is written from a fantasy perspective, but the point is made.  LINK

                   

                  Also, a Lin turnover is worse because it almost always leads to a fast break which is a very high percentage play for the other team.  I call that a double-negative; unfortunately, unlike grammar and math it does not revert back to a positive--it's just lots of negative.


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                  #17 uojoe82

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                    Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:58 PM

                    @Rockets best fan

                     

                    "I'm not saying McHale is deliberately undermining the Rockets chance for winning because of a grudge against Lin. however what if that was somewhat true"

                     

                    that statement discredits everything else you have said.

                     

                    Really? Why?

                     

                    All I was implying is that McHale isn't exploring the potential of the Rockets rather doing what he can to make sure they make the playoffs. Its easy for teams to make the jump from lottery team to good team. Look at the Rockets. All it took was Harden. However the jump from good to great is the hardest and im not sure McHale is the guy to do it. 

                     

                    Perfect example, look at the Clippers before Doc Rivers with the addition of CP3. Yes they were a playoff team. But they couldn't take the next step. So they had to get a coach that could take the next step. And I know that they have a similar record to the Rockets right now but is anyone really going to believe that they are equal?


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                    #18 uojoe82

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                      Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:59 PM

                      Turnovers are a product of many things and can be tolerable.  Morey (and now Hinkie in Philly) look at it as collateral damage in a high variance offensive philosophy.  As long as the efficiency is high it is fine to lose out on possessions.  The problem with Lin's turnovers is the counter-balance does not exist.  He isn't providing an efficient offensive anything to balance out the loss of possessions.

                       

                      ESPN just posted this article today.  It is written from a fantasy perspective, but the point is made.  LINK

                       

                      Also, a Lin turnover is worse because it almost always leads to a fast break which is a very high percentage play for the other team.  I call that a double-negative; unfortunately, unlike grammar and math it does not revert back to a positive--it's just lots of negative.

                       

                      Ill acknowledge the accuracy of your post. Yes Lin's turnovers are often compounded by the fact that they lead to a fast break on the other end. But how often (pre LIn slump) did we see Lin make passes or find scoring opportunities for his teammates that Beverley could never make?

                       

                      I think you have to categorize his turnovers into 2 categories. 

                       

                      1) turnovers that are a function of his aggressiveness

                      2) turnovers that are a function of his indecisiveness

                       

                      Category #1 is excusable. Category # 2 is not. Unfortunately due to his low confidence we are seeing more of type 2 turnovers. 

                       

                      Beverley doesn't turn the ball over as much but he doesn't create offense as well as Lin. Beverley does foul at a very high rate and even if his fouls dont lead to free throws for the other team he is adding to the team foul total which eventually leads to free throws for the other team. I would counter the arguement that Lin's TO's create easy buckets for the other team by stating that Beverley's high foul rate creates easy points for the other team. is this a 1 for 1 exchange? Maybe not but it has to be factored when comparing the two players.

                       

                      Is Lin losing minutes because he is playing bad or is he playing bad because he is losing minutes (and confidence)? Maybe this is the chicken or the egg dilemna but history has shown that if Lin gets minutes and is allowed a certain amount of freedom to create without the threat of being benched then he can be productive and efficient. 


                      Edited by uojoe82, 06 March 2014 - 11:08 PM.

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                      #19 txtdo1411

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                      Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:06 PM

                       

                       

                      Perfect example, look at the Clippers before Doc Rivers with the addition of CP3. Yes they were a playoff team. But they couldn't take the next step. So they had to get a coach that could take the next step. And I know that they have a similar record to the Rockets right now but is anyone really going to believe that they are equal?

                       

                      And what have the Clippers won yet? Same thing the Rockets have... absolutely nothing. Why aren't they equal? Because the Clippers beat us twice at the VERY beginning of the year when we were at our worst? Oh and then beat us at their house with us on a second night of a B2B? I mean I don't want to see them in the playoffs, but they are just as unproven as we are. I am not quite sure why you are using them as the perfect example as to why McHale isn't a good coach. 

                       

                      P.S. Doc would be starting Beverley over Lin as well. I know that is your real motive here. 


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                      #20 thejohnnygold

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                      Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:08 PM

                      Am I a Lin apologist?

                       

                      Sort of.

                       

                      If you were to take all the starting PG's in the NBA (and include Lin) and rank them from top to bottom I'm pretty sure that Lin would be on the bottom half. But I'm 100% certain that Beverley would be in the bottom 3 (or 5 if I'm being generous). What I'm trying to say is that while Lin's recent struggles warrant less minutes, it doesnt warrant less minutes and more minutes for a player like Beverley. 

                       

                      The Rockets are winning. This can't be disputed. So the timeliness of my posts might be not ideal. But lets look closer at who the Rockets have been winning against since the beginning of February.

                       

                      Since Feb 1, 2014 the rockets are 11-2. Of those 11 wins on 4 have come against teams currently in the playoffs (Suns x2, Wizards, & Heat). They have also lost twice to playoff teams during that stretch (Clippers, Warriors). The remaining 7 games have come against teams well out of the playoff race. So even though the Rockets have won 11 of 13 lets not print those 2013-14 NBA Champs T-Shirt yet.

                       

                      If Lin's minutes were going to a legitimate starting PG, then I would have no arguement or disagreement with McHales handling of him. But there not. Lin is sitting in favor of Beverley. Beverley is who he is. A pesky defender who can hit the open 3 pointer and defers to Harden on offense. But lets not pretend that Beverley is a good player. He is a good role player. He is very limited and his defense is average at best. Yes he presses full court and it looks like he's giving opposing PG a nightmare but at the end of the night the box score says differently. Opposing PG's are just a little more tired when the games over.

                       

                      Someone mentioned that Lin's bad games are now the norm. Really? Even despite this slump his numbers are still better than Beverley's and you cant say Beverley's defense is far superior because no data supports that old claim. 

                       

                      Well, that someone was me.  I have personally provided data more than once that clearly shows a wide chasm between Beverley and Lin on defense.  You can also take a quick trip to mysynergysports.com and do a side by side comparison where you can clearly see that Bev outshines Lin across the board.  By the way, for all the talk about Bev's foul trouble, Lin fouls more frequently then he does.  Not opinion--just facts.

                       

                      Also, Beverley is only a hair behind Lin on offense--I'd say about even once everything is taken into account.  Don't believe me?  While you're at mysynergysports feel free to look a those numbers too.  Mind you, those numbers are for the season.  Currently, it's not even close.

                       

                      In short, saying things does not make them true.

                       

                      There is a reason posts like these never have citations or links to sources.  You can't cite imagination, hopes, and dreams. :P


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