186 replies to this topic

[Willk]

via Dream Shake's Matthew Tynan in an article he wrote today:

 

 

"the Rockets shoot the ball at a negligibly better percentage and create a slightly improved assist rate when Harden is on the bench, according to NBA.com/Stats, but their efficiency ratings are worse by several points per 100 possessions on both sides of the ball when he sits."

 

 

 

It's overblown that the Rockets offense suffers when Harden is doing his thing. The rotation is one of the newest in the league and among the best and most efficient. Give them a year, a post season and another training camp and they will get even better.

I agree with this. I do not think the rockets are contenders this year. I think they need to go through another year of post season battles to get to the contender status

[rocketrick]

via Dream Shake's Matthew Tynan in an article he wrote today:
 
 
"the Rockets shoot the ball at a negligibly better percentage and create a slightly improved assist rate when Harden is on the bench, according to NBA.com/Stats, but their efficiency ratings are worse by several points per 100 possessions on both sides of the ball when he sits."
 
 
 
It's overblown that the Rockets offense suffers when Harden is doing his thing. The rotation is one of the newest in the league and among the best and most efficient. Give them a year, a post season and another training camp and they will get even better.

FSS, let's root for the Rockets to make it as far as possible in the playoffs this season. The more playoff experience they gain this season, the better off the entire team will be going forward. My expectations are like yours, I certainly don't expect to see them in the WCF's or the Finals. But it sure would be nice to see them battle it out with one of the other top teams in the WCSF's this season.

[Willk]

Common sense would tell you its not going to work. But people change, Harden can change and be thinking, "i know Lin, can do work if I give him the ball". What Harden has to decide is.. does he want to be a star that scores 25 a night in iso's and and not get his teammates involved too much? OR does he say to himself, "i'll get my points either way, but I want to let others run the ship so the TEAM chemistry can be built and possibly have a juggernaut offensive team"

 

Why do you think Parsons said what he said?... do you really think it was for nothing? REALLY?

 

Stars dont have to take EVERY shot, they have to take THE shot if things arent working. That's true leadership.

Interesting that you said that "I know Lin, can do work if I give him the ball." Then later you talk "TEAM."

Why not say "I know my teammates can do work if I give them the ball"

It seems you only care about Lin and not the Rockets

[Willk]

If Lin was traded, I wouldnt mind because there's a great chance he'd have the reigns to run the offense for another team.

If he isn't traded, I just want to see him used in a position to succeed. When I see Harden and Lin, I think of plays I could draw up in my head that would seem like. wtf? how can you guard that especially with D12 as your PnR big man, and Parsons in the corner. You see the team now and how it is with Harden off the court, and your like .. wow! imagine if Harden bought in the way we all think he should, no ego's, just being a well oiled machine .. see what I'm saying?

 

There were games like that when Lin was starting, but there was no consistency to it. Lin's passive to a fault though. He aint trying to step on anyones toes. There's times he don't even touch it for 5 straight possessions. He doesn't care, as long as their winning. It's a shame "some" of his teammates aren't like that.

 

Do I want Lin gone? I do in a way, but if things work out.. im fine with that too.

 

To be honest.... in a fantasy kind of world, I'd love to see Lin with the Spurs, learning for Tony Parker, playing for Popovich. NO ego's type offense where everyone gets it because they understand and Pop embraces a TEAM concept. Playing like a well oiled machine.

But you would be complaining the second that Pop took Lin out after a mistake and yelled at him. Pop is much more harsh on PGs, ask Parker

[Steven]

Saw the Golden State Warriors wanted to bring back Lin, are willing to offer Steph Curry.

Edited by Steven, 31 January 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[bbears88]

The answer to this question is a simple one.

 

Rockets are 18-5 when Lin plays 30+ minutes, or better than a .780 win percentage for HALF the games the Rockets have already played.

 

Again, this means more playing time for Lin gives the Rockets more wins.  Now how is that possible?

 

Easy. When Lin has the ball in his hands, and is allowed to "warm-up" and play through his mistakes, his game goes to another level. His teammates get involved, get touches, and get respectable numbers in the box score. Happy teammates bring energy on defense. Defense feeds the offense, and the momentum continues. Again, it's not so much how Lin starts a game, what stats Lin gets during the first quarter or half.  As the game progresses, he makes more plays. At the same time, he makes the other players on his team better.

 

John Wooden once said "Don't mistake activity with achievement." Patrick Beverley starts over Lin because of his high energy on defense...and that's about it.

 

Question: What's wrong with Lin?  Answer: The coach doesn't play him enough.

Edited by bbears88, 31 January 2014 - 04:37 AM.

[Knickabokkaz]

Interesting that you said that "I know Lin, can do work if I give him the ball." Then later you talk "TEAM."
Why not say "I know my teammates can do work if I give them the ball"
It seems you only care about Lin and not the Rockets

Because Lin plays and preaches TEAM ball, and do I care about Lin more then I do then the Rockets? Lol, read all of my posts and draw your own conclusion.

[Willk]

The answer to this question is a simple one.

 

Rockets are 18-5 when Lin plays 30+ minutes, or better than a .780 win percentage for HALF the games the Rockets have already played.

 

Again, this means more playing time for Lin gives the Rockets more wins.  Now how is that possible?

 

Easy. When Lin has the ball in his hands, and is allowed to "warm-up" and play through his mistakes, his game goes to another level. His teammates get involved, get touches, and get respectable numbers in the box score. Happy teammates bring energy on defense. Defense feeds the offense, and the momentum continues. Again, it's not so much how Lin starts a game, what stats Lin gets during the first quarter or half.  As the game progresses, he makes more plays. At the same time, he makes the other players on his team better.

 

John Wooden once said "Don't mistake activity with achievement." Patrick Beverley starts over Lin because of his high energy on defense...and that's about it.

 

Question: What's wrong with Lin?  Answer: The coach doesn't play him enough.

Ok, so the clippers have a .786 winning percentage with Darren Collison starting and .647 winning percentage with Chris Paul so obviously Darren Collison needs to be playing much more. The Bulls are 9-2 with DJ Augustin starting so he needs more minutes next year. The clippers' and bulls' players much be happier without Paul and Rose. That is why they are playing so well. 

Also, why are the rockets 9-2 over the last two years when they have everybody except Lin?

[Willk]

Because Lin plays and preaches TEAM ball, and do I care about Lin more then I do then the Rockets? Lol, read all of my posts and draw your own conclusion.

So TEAM ball = Lin handling the ball more and shooting more right? All of your posts are about more Lin and/ or criticizing every other player. No doubt you are a LOF

[bladad]

Ok, so the clippers have a .786 winning percentage with Darren Collison starting and .647 winning percentage with Chris Paul so obviously Darren Collison needs to be playing much more. The Bulls are 9-2 with DJ Augustin starting so he needs more minutes next year. The clippers' and bulls' players much be happier without Paul and Rose. That is why they are playing so well. 

Also, why are the rockets 9-2 over the last two years when they have everybody except Lin?

Obviously, all things are not equal when you talk about both of those teams. The Bulls are not an offensively minded team and have a much better head coach caompared to McHale. They share the ball on offense and play terrific team defense.

 

The Thunder have the best player in the NBA, who is also currently on a tear scoring. That team is also a better defensive team than the rockets are, even when they play small. Unless you want to compare Kevin Durant to James Harden(offensively and recently defensively), you are again comparing apples to oranges.

 

Finally, all the teams you've mentioned all have better head coaches than Mchale. They actually run a defense as opposed to throwing guys out there and hoping D12 makes a stop at the net. They chew guys out for not playing defense (OH HEY HARDEN, DIDN'T SEE YOU THERE).

So TEAM ball = Lin handling the ball more and shooting more right? All of your posts are about more Lin and/ or criticizing every other player. No doubt you are a LOF

The truth of the matter is, Lin needs a coach that isn't going to pull him for a turnover or an ill advised shot. He isn't JR Smith and he obviously won't turn into anythinig close to resembling JR Smith. Lin gets guys involved on offense whether it's passing out of a pick/roll or to dropping it off after driving to the hoop.

 

He needs the carte blanche to run the second unit like Harden did in OKC. Lin's getting nickel and dimed when it comes to his playing time by McHale. I'd like to see McHale take the same measures with Harden when he misses a defensive assignment, creates a terrible offensive series (which usually ends up being a terrible shot for another teammate), or fails to convert when he plays hero ball. I would love to see how many people come to Harden's defense. We might be able to make the HOF moniker (harden only fan) a reailty. Just becuase he's the best player on the team does not mean he should get a free pass when it comes to sticky fingers, terrible defense, and ill advised shots. If anything, he should be held to a higher standard.

 

 

But we all know with McHale, that won't happen. Lin's being put in a crap situation by a coach that honestly is still learning on the job.

Also, I still don't understand why Lin and Harden don't run high pick and roll. Instant mismatch all over the board.

Edited by bladad, 31 January 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[autoprt]

agreed, the 1st time they let lin go he played great for the knicks and the rockets looked bad for letting him go so gave the huge contract to make up for it.  the owner told the gm to get him back at any cost to right the wrong.  now fast forward to now i don't think rockets will trade but if they do i believe the exact same thing will happen again. 

[rocketrick]

Perhaps someone should open a LOF only topic that the rest of us more reasonable Rockets fans can simply ignore going forward. It's getting to the point where this fan is becoming less and less enamored with Lin because of all the LOF's arguments that in my opinion are invalid for the most part.

As I had stated previously in this topic and in other topics, it would be great if the LOF's would come to accept the role that Lin plays for our team. Jeremy Lin certainly has.

[Richards]

Perhaps someone should open a LOF only topic that the rest of us more reasonable Rockets fans can simply ignore going forward. It's getting to the point where this fan is becoming less and less enamored with Lin because of all the LOF's arguments that in my opinion are invalid for the most part.

As I had stated previously in this topic and in other topics, it would be great if the LOF's would come to accept the role that Lin plays for our team. Jeremy Lin certainly has.

I feel your pain. I am a proud Lin fan but not a LOF. I think the best way to handle is ignore any crazy irrational posters including LOF & LOH.

I spent enough time on this forum and knew those by name and just simply ignore them. I want to bring everybody together even if our opinions differ but even Higher Powers can't fix them either.

[bladad]

Perhaps someone should open a LOF only topic that the rest of us more reasonable Rockets fans can simply ignore going forward. It's getting to the point where this fan is becoming less and less enamored with Lin because of all the LOF's arguments that in my opinion are invalid for the most part.

As I had stated previously in this topic and in other topics, it would be great if the LOF's would come to accept the role that Lin plays for our team. Jeremy Lin certainly has.

Is it the role that benefits the team though? Is he getting the legitimate opportunity to carry out the role he's been given?

 

I think it's a pertinent discussion to have considering the value that 6th men have shown in the league this year.

[rocketrick]

I feel your pain. I am a proud Lin fan but not a LOF. I think the best way to handle is ignore any crazy irrational posters including LOF & LOH.
I spent enough time on this forum and knew those by name and just simply ignore them. I want to bring everybody together even if our opinions differ but even Higher Powers can't fix them either.

Richards,

Thank you for your post. No doubt, we don't often agree and seemingly most of the time seem to be on the opposite side of discussions.

Yet I respect you because I have no doubt whatsoever that your heart is the same as my heart, both of us want the Rockets to win at least 1 ring in the next few seasons.

Sometimes I do wonder if some of the LOF's on this site are one and the same person because consistently the posters seem to most always be new, they make 1 or 2 posts, then disappear never to be heard from again on this site.

So maybe instead of LOF's, we should change the definition to LOF, just one person that keeps changing their identity.

For me, it is always a pleasure to attend the Rockets games and I look forward to when it is Lin's turn to come on the court as he brings much energy. Too many times this season he has not been able to play his natural position with this particular team because of the numerous injuries to Beverley and Harden which has forced Lin to play starter minutes. I am absolutely fine with Lin playing starter minutes, but in the long run it does not help the fans understand how much better Lin is instead coming off the bench as our vital 6th man.

Perhaps in the next grouping of games, the Rockets can finally become healthy and all the players can fall into their natural roles for this season so that more can understand.

My last point is that although I envision Lin as the Rockets vital 6th man this season, at some point in the 4th quarter of pretty much all the games, he is going to come out of the game for the starters. There can only be 5 on the court at any one time. Unless Beverley is having a particularly bad game with a less than favorable defensive matchup with the opposing team's point guard, Lin is going to be substituted out of the game. The LOF's need to learn to accept this.

[rm90025]

I appreciate your goldfish-like memory.  Rather than re-post everything I have in the past to refute assertions such as this I'll just presume everyone else still remembers.  It wasn't that long ago.  Lin's defense is perfectly fine.  I don't know why blowing out Beverley's candle makes you think Lin's will shine brighter.

 

As for your last sentence, thanks for the laugh. 

Don't know why you're so cranky. The argument for Beverley over Lin starts with the presumption that he is better defensively.  My point is if you actually watch the games and how each has fared against other PG match ups, that isn't the case.  I'm not trying to be anti-Beverley but I am just refuting the arguments that presume that he is the better choice at PG.  Regarding the last sentence, I do think the Houston coaching staff doesn't believe Lin is a core piece and would have no qualms about letting him sit at the end of the bench if they had better options. Beverley simply has not proven that he has the skill level to send Lin to the bench.  I don't think that's a controversial statement.  

[rocketrick]

Don't know why you're so cranky. The argument for Beverley over Lin starts with the presumption that he is better defensively.  My point is if you actually watch the games and how each has fared against other PG match ups, that isn't the case.  I'm not trying to be anti-Beverley but I am just refuting the arguments that presume that he is the better choice at PG.  Regarding the last sentence, I do think the Houston coaching staff doesn't believe Lin is a core piece and would have no qualms about letting him sit at the end of the bench if they had better options. Beverley simply has not proven that he has the skill level to send Lin to the bench.  I don't think that's a controversial statement.

C'mon, you gotta be kidding. JohhnyGold clearly showed yesterday in an earlier post that both Harden and Lin thrive on the left side of the court. As any fan of the NBA should understand, it is not possible for both to thrive at that spot on the court simultaneously.

Lin is the energetic 6th man that the Rockets need to be successful this season. Most don't realize it yet because Lin has had to fill in as a starter for basically half the games so far this season. That's great the Rockets are so fortunate to have a talented player as Lin able to fill in as the starter when Beverley or Harden are injured and unable to play. The downside of this is that most fans (particularly, LOF's) haven't been able to grasp the importance to this team of having Lin fill the vital 6th man role.

The point is, going forward, the Rockets will only go so far as the players on this particular roster eventually accept their roles on this particular team.

I understand the argument, who is better, Lin or Beverley, but it simply doesn't matter.

Lin can be more effective on the court sans Harden and that is simply only going to happen when either Harden is on the bench or out due to injury. At the end of the first half and at the end of the game, in most cases, Lin is going to be on the bench. Why? Simply because Harden is the #1 option, period, and Beverley shows that he can be more effective off the ball than Lin in these instances.

Edited by rocketrick, 31 January 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[bbears88]

Ok, so the clippers have a .786 winning percentage with Darren Collison starting and .647 winning percentage with Chris Paul so obviously Darren Collison needs to be playing much more. The Bulls are 9-2 with DJ Augustin starting so he needs more minutes next year. The clippers' and bulls' players much be happier without Paul and Rose. That is why they are playing so well. 

Also, why are the rockets 9-2 over the last two years when they have everybody except Lin?

^^^This is an example of how some people can't do analysis, and can't be taken seriously.  What's next, using a gorilla to pick a Super Bowl winner?

 

Next time, try to factor in: (1) # minutes played in contests (2) HALF of this season's games as a sample size (3) Explanation of how the relationship of the numbers justifies the conclusion

[Kckc]

I wouldn't disagree that he has been a little patchy on his 3 point shooting recently but you also have to recognise that a good number of those 3's are a result of last minute dumps from harden isos. I like that you have recognised that there is a lot to be said of the bad rotations and lineups Mchale/Sampson are employing. Being a good coach necessitates that they know how to get the best out of their players and if they are employing Lin as a role player then they need to use him as just that. There seems to be a bit of confusion on their end on how to use him. Sometimes he is asked to be the PG running the offense, sometimes he is there as a spot up shooter, sometimes he is asked to play with "pop" and "energy" with no clear defined role. I can imagine how this can do a players head in. I think given the circumstances with that extreme lack of consistency, he is doing well. You can also see that the point being run by non-PG players is not very effective. I remember seeing a stat somewhere about when Parsons or Harden get more assists than the PG's as a total, they tend to lose many more games.

 

I totally agree on what you have said about the chaotic D. The general coaching has been a bit atrocious in certain games as well. It doesn't look like they employ good lineups sometimes and its very chop and change ragtag. This I think is the big problem with the "flow" that they constantly talk about.It also doesn't help that the backcourt often loses their assignments (Lin makes mistakes definitely but Harden is much much worse). Often we are seeing opposing SG's have amazing shooting nights as they are getting wide open looks after A) Harden is caught ball watching and walks into a screen they are playing double screens on Harden because the defense again looks they are not set. I do have to point out though, when Lin is switched on with D, he has been able to limit the score lines of even star PGs (with the help of Dwight of course). I am not trying to bash harden but there are still many elements where it becomes difficult for the team, if he slacks off on any department of his game (i.e. distributing, playing good team D). When watched you can see the energy being sucked right out of the team.

 

On another note, I still am fuming that we lost that first game against back to back memphis (not to mention there wasn't any "adjustments" employed in the second game to limit Zbo). Especially, that last play after PB won the ball back with 8 seconds to go. I am still surprised they didn't sub PB off for Tjones, they didn't go for a 2 pointer instead of a 3 (2 points would of won it and could of hedged for a foul in the paint) and they didn't camp howard inside. 

 

Welcome to Red94, kckc, although I have to admit right away I disagree with a lot of what you stated in your virgin post.

It would have been beneficial if you would have acknowledged the fact that the Rockets have been undermanned for a good part of this season. Which is why Lin and other players responsibilities on this team are still in flux. Because seemingly every game, or every other 2-3 games, Coach McHale is forced to use different starting lineups and/or different rotation players (combinations on the floor with necessary substitutions to allow starters to rest during the flow of a game).

It is very easy to blame deficiencies on the coaching staff. Amazingly though, I'm surprised that you failed to mention how happy you are as a Rockets fan that the Rockets have the 7th best winning percentage thus far this season and are only a couple of games away from moving up in the standings. Hopefully you can see that the coaching staff has dealt with the constant lineup shuffles this season in addition to introducing D12 and other players into this season's rotation.

Still, please continue to come back to this forum and provide your insight. Although you will find quickly that not everybody will instantly agree with your opinions, the longer you contribute to this forum, the more you will be hooked to continue coming back and making your personal contributions.

 

Thanks for the welcome . Yeah I agree they have a good win-loss ratio. It is a rough western conference though and as fans we just want the team to just post wins on the board. Totally agree that it probably has been a monumental task to rotate players given the injuries. 

 

However, what I was highlighting was sometimes a bevy of poor coaching choices and in-game substitutions which dont make sense. When players are pulled out of the lineup when they seem to be playing well. Its happened to TJones and even Montiejunas a number of times and not just isolated to Jeremy. I would also say the huge minutes that the starting lineup played during many of the earlier games has been a major contributor to the many injuries.

 

Anyway, I digress. The topic was what is wrong with Jeremy and I still stick to my guns. I think that he is playing well given the chopping and changing in what his actual role is. That is: He is not being played to his strengths and there is confusion to his role on a nightly basis. This would obviously transfer to set plays (how can team mates do a set play when they aren't sure whether he is a spot up shooter or a slasher?) and defensive assignments (when they go small, him and harden lose their man all the time). Most of the defensive sets also seem a bit wishy washy. 

[rm90025]

I'd also challenge the notion that the Rockets can't make the leap to championship contender with Lin as the PG.  When you look at the western conference playoff opponents, Lin has more than handled himself against the top guards from the opposition.  The exception would be OKC, where he had 1 stellar game last year but has been outplayed in the other match ups.  But he has provided a good baseline to work from. Rather, what I think they need is a player at the wing who can help Harden out on his defensive matchup and perhaps Howard when he has a tough matchup.  For example, if they had been able to swing a trade for Luol Deng, that would allow them to match up better and address the defensive gaps.