186 replies to this topic

[Knickabokkaz]

Lin coming off the bench is fine - it avoids the duplication of skill sets on the floor (his and Harden's) and minimizes any drop off in our attack with the second unit.

You can also make the argument that duplication of an elite talent (getting to the rim via PnR with Harden/Lin) is a nightmare for teams to guard as well. Say you stop Harden on the strong side as he runs a PnR, you still have that same threat on the weak side with Lin if you drew up the play correctly. So let me say ... if I have a spot up 40% 3 pt. shooter on one side, it makes no sense to have another %40 shooter on the other side as well? 

 

I guess I'm saying, I'd rather have the most potent elite starting unit as possible and build on that, then to worry about someone to "run the second unit" for just a couple of minutes. How much time does Lin actually get with Harden on the bench? 10 minutes total? I'm going to worry about those 10 minutes per game, rather then making my most potent players as efficient as they can be on offense for 38 minutes?

 

When I say "efficient" I dont mean as in benefitting for Lin or Harden, I meant as a team.

 

Get the logic?

Edited by Knickabokkaz, 30 January 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[Mario Peña]

The comparison is flawed in that a player that drives and holds the ball effects spacing differently than a player that spots up to shoot 40% from behind the arc so having duplicates of both is not as similar as you would think.

[Knickabokkaz]

The comparison is flawed in that a player that drives and holds the ball effects spacing differently than a player that spots up to shoot 40% from behind the arc so having duplicates of both is not as similar as you would think.

I'd agree if you were starting your initial PnR at the top of the key. What if you ran side PnR's on the block like how Stockton and Malone did?

[Knickabokkaz]

The other benefit to having Lin and Harden on the court at the same time is that...

 

Not many teams other then probably Memphis, have a real good defensive PG and SG. With Lin/Harden, if McHale ever believed in the aspect of exploiting mis-matches. you can pick and choose if you wanted to exploit the opposing teams PG or SG in PnR's. Here's somewhat of an example:

 

Knicks have Shumpert and Felton as your opposing SG and PG. Shump is an elite defender, but Felton is a horrible defender. Say this is the Finals and your facing them (which is almost impossible) and the game is slowed down in the playoffs, Would you let Harden attack Shump, or Lin attack Felton in PnR situations?

[RudyT1995]

Yo Knick,

 

if you're a Lin fan, shouldn't you be calling for Lin to be traded to a better situation instead of insisting that the Rockets should give him the ball more even though we have a season and a half of evidence that that is not going to happen?

 

I thought that you would be the leader of the "trade Jeremy Lin" band wagon.  

Edited by RudyT1995, 30 January 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[Knickabokkaz]

Yo Knick,

 

if you're a Lin fan, shouldn't you be calling for Lin to be traded to a better situation instead of insisting that the Rockets should give him the ball more even though we have a season and a half of evidence that that is not going to happen?

 

I thought that you would be the leader of the "trade Jeremy Lin" band wagon.  

 

If Lin was traded, I wouldnt mind because there's a great chance he'd have the reigns to run the offense for another team.

If he isn't traded, I just want to see him used in a position to succeed. When I see Harden and Lin, I think of plays I could draw up in my head that would seem like. wtf? how can you guard that especially with D12 as your PnR big man, and Parsons in the corner. You see the team now and how it is with Harden off the court, and your like .. wow! imagine if Harden bought in the way we all think he should, no ego's, just being a well oiled machine .. see what I'm saying?

 

There were games like that when Lin was starting, but there was no consistency to it. Lin's passive to a fault though. He aint trying to step on anyones toes. There's times he don't even touch it for 5 straight possessions. He doesn't care, as long as their winning. It's a shame "some" of his teammates aren't like that.

 

Do I want Lin gone? I do in a way, but if things work out.. im fine with that too.

 

To be honest.... in a fantasy kind of world, I'd love to see Lin with the Spurs, learning for Tony Parker, playing for Popovich. NO ego's type offense where everyone gets it because they understand and Pop embraces a TEAM concept. Playing like a well oiled machine.

Edited by Knickabokkaz, 30 January 2014 - 09:38 PM.

[RudyT1995]

If he isn't traded, I just want to see him used in a position to succeed. 

 

Yeah, but we have a season and a half of evidence that says that neither Harden nor the coaching staff is interested in allowing that to happen.  We know for sure that Harden isn't going anywhere, and reasonably sure that the coaching staff isn't going anywhere either.

 

Do you really think that it is logical to expect a change at this point?  Doesn't it make more sense, as a Lin fan, to just give up on Lin being given a real chance in Houston and calling for him to be traded?

 

Just look at what happened to Asik.  The Rockets don't care about Lin, just like they didn't care about Asik.  He's just an asset to them.  Don't you want him to go to a team that will actually value him?

Edited by RudyT1995, 30 January 2014 - 09:46 PM.

[Knickabokkaz]

Yeah, but we have a season and a half of evidence that says that neither Harden nor the coaching staff is interested in allowing that to happen.  We know for sure that Harden isn't going anywhere, and reasonably sure that the coaching staff isn't going anywhere either.

 

Do you really think that it is logical to expect a change at this point?  Doesn't it make more sense, as a Lin fan, to just give up on Lin being given a real chance in Houston and calling for him to be traded?

Common sense would tell you its not going to work. But people change, Harden can change and be thinking, "i know Lin, can do work if I give him the ball". What Harden has to decide is.. does he want to be a star that scores 25 a night in iso's and and not get his teammates involved too much? OR does he say to himself, "i'll get my points either way, but I want to let others run the ship so the TEAM chemistry can be built and possibly have a juggernaut offensive team"

 

Why do you think Parsons said what he said?... do you really think it was for nothing? REALLY?

 

Stars dont have to take EVERY shot, they have to take THE shot if things arent working. That's true leadership.

Edited by Knickabokkaz, 30 January 2014 - 09:55 PM.

[Freebird]

Knick, I see your point on starting both, but there will be a cost.  Namely, a point that knows how to get the ball down low, and can run the half court when the PnR ain't working.  Bev fills that role nicely, if not optimally.

 

And chemistry is a factor here, as well.  Good point by RudyT - with the leeway given to Harden, there are some nights Lin doesn't see the ball enough.

[BrentYen]

Get the ball down low? Do you meant passing it to D12? Lin is among the best on the team to do that IMO.

[RudyT1995]

Common sense would tell you its not going to work. 

 

Bam!  There you go.

[Mario Peña]

via Dream Shake's Matthew Tynan in an article he wrote today:

 

 

"the Rockets shoot the ball at a negligibly better percentage and create a slightly improved assist rate when Harden is on the bench, according to NBA.com/Stats, but their efficiency ratings are worse by several points per 100 possessions on both sides of the ball when he sits."

 

 

 

It's overblown that the Rockets offense suffers when Harden is doing his thing. The rotation is one of the newest in the league and among the best and most efficient. Give them a year, a post season and another training camp and they will get even better.

[since86rocketsfan]

Lin just is, what he is, average and inconsistent. Lin shot 30% at one point last year as well. He makes bad turnovers, and you are right with Harden and Dwight, you have to have sharpshooters to surround them. When  we signed him last year I thought he was overpaid. He makes more then Lowry and is a reserve.

[since86rocketsfan]

And people Harden is our best player. Without him, firstly we do not make the playoffs last year, and Howard does not sign with us.  So those stats on the shooting percentage are meaningless. Lets just imagine where we would be with Lin, Parson's, and Asik as our big three. No big time free agent would of signed with us, we would of got a couple of pieces with Howard's salary, but would be no where close to a threat.

[Richards]

Parsons said Rockets play with more balanced attack, run sets, and move the ball until good look. He didn't say anything about total points scored or efficiency. And we didn't know the context of conversation with reporter. We can't read too much if we don't know enough. 

[lin fan]

With recent rumor with Lowry.  I am hoping Lin gets traded to Raptors.  

Edited by lin fan, 31 January 2014 - 12:28 AM.

[Mario Peña]

It doesn't concern me what Parsons said, I did quote TDS article to point out that the rockets are most efficient with Harden on the floor contrary to misinformed opinions of him. Harden is our franchise and he has a couple years of growing up to do, paying your dues doesn't happen overnight. Kobe, James, Durant and Westbrook have all spent years growing up and making mistakes but learning from them and so will Harden.

[rocketrick]

I think Lin is very accepting of his role on the Rockets this season and I for one am very glad he is on our team this season and look forward to watching him continue to grow and improve his individual game and team game.

It would be nice if some of the Lin fans in this forum would be as willing to accept Lin's role on this team as Lin has instead of continually railing for him to be placed in the starting lineup with Harden. You just can't fit a square block in a round hole. There are times that a Harden/Lin combo on the court can be productive, but for the most part I believe the Rockets have determined that Lin is much more valuable to our team in coming off the bench as the sparkplug playing that vital 6th man role. And more than capable of filling in as a starter when either Beverley or Harden misses games due to injury.

What is more important? Seeing Lin turn into a 20 point, 9 assist starter or playing a vital role for the Rockets in the here and now? If the former then you will likely continue being disappointed. I see the glass as half full, though, and I have no doubt the Rockets value Lin to keep him engaged going forward. It's not like the Rockets coaching staff is benching Lin for AB for entire games at a time.

I am more focused on the success of the Rockets team, not individual glory. D12 and Harden are our superstars. Parsons is on the verge of becoming a superstar. Everyone else needs to accept their roles and continue putting their heart and soul in the success of the team so that the Rockets can achieve important goals like winning in the playoffs.

[Willk]

Rockets winning percentage with Lin as backup : 8W-6L .571

 

Rockets winning percentage with Lin as starter : 17W-7L .701

Rockets winning percentage with Lin sidelined : 6W-4L : .600

Let's look at this further:

Rockets last year w/o Lin 2-0

Rockets this year when Lin plays 1q (like vs ATL) or not at all 7-4.

Two of those losses were w/o Parsons so the Rox are 7-2 with basically the whole roster besides Lin.

Overall 9-2

Rockets last year when harden played 1q (like vs DEN) or not at all 2-3.

Rockets this year w/o harden 6-2

1 of those wins was vs ATL (where Lin played a couple of minutes) and 1 of those wins was against MEM (where Lin was benched for the last 9 minutes).

So assuming Lin is the "leader" when Harden is out the Rockets are 6-5. 545

Rockets w/o Lin: 9-2 818

[knibb]

What's wrong with Jeremy Lin? Let me count the ways...

 

1. Way too self critical

2. Lacks vanity

3. Terrible at self promotion 

4. Kind and forgiving

5. Actually encourages the foreign and outlandish concept of "Team"

6. Believes in winning as opposed to simply scoring (and I thought they are the same thing)

 

I sure would not want him as a role model to my kids...