82 replies to this topic

[Kiss_of_Death_Clutch_City]

The truth as I see it:

 

This Asik rumor swirl is posturing. Morey reportedly asking for two 1st rounders was to drive up the value for Asik, when in reality Morey would probably be happy to get one 1st round pick for Asik. Hearing that teams are balking at trading for Asik does not surprise me at all. Because of the money Asik is owed other GM's know that, even for a player of Asik's skill, this fact gives them some leverage as well. Putting this into the hands of the media  and essentially driving down the value of Asik is a ploy to put pressure on Morey to take what he can get and so they scoop Asik up for cheaper than originally thought. I think Morey is smart enough to see through this, because worst case scenario is that Asik can't be moved and he stays a Rocket. I still think this is our best bet as a team because of the value he brings to the floor. Had we had him for the Portland game he could have provided better backup defense when Dwight sat than T-Jones. T-Jones is a beast, but he's not a center and should not have been guarding LaMarcus Aldridge. Just saying.

 

As to the Lin trade rumors.....I don't like them and I'm not a LOF, nor do I really care for them other than: they buy tickets and merchandise, so they contribute to putting a good team on the floor. So in that respect they can stay and so can he. I don't like the fact that the LOF's can't embrace the team Lin plays on, but hey whatever. We will take them as band-wagoners and enjoy pointing out to them that there are other players on the Rockets and the rotations do not, nor should they, revolve around Lin. He is an excellent sixth man, and I don't think we are over paying him anymore. I probably wouldn't have said that last year, but he has made great strides with his left hand. So I really don't think there is a need to trade him.

 

Look I understand the want to acquire a third super star, but I just don't think we need or want Carmelo Anthony. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I have been watching Carmelo since Syracuse and while I respect his game, I don't like him as a team player. He got pissed when Lin was stealing his spot light in New York, and with Harden and Howard already on the team I can just see that acquisition as turning into a pissing contest between the three. 

 

What we really need is stability. Either trade Asik or don't and then the team can move past the situation knowing who is going in to battle with them every night and solidify the chemistry that has already begun to form. Even the Heat didn't win the championship that first year with James. The Rockets team that one it all in '94 had to go through their own bumps in the few years leading up to it, losing to the Supersonics in a game 7 the year before.(Remember the OJ chase cutting in to the game in the 4th quarter? Craziness) Sure they got rookies Sam Cassell and Robert Horry in between seasons, but the core of the team was already there. They just needed to jell. A little turnover is to be expected and an upgrade without giving up too much would be great, but the current Rockets team already possess much of what they need to win a championship. They just need to jell. 

[rocketrick]

Lin is to important to our offensive trio of lin,parsons, and harden in which at least two has to be on the court at one time. They are all facilitators, good passers, shooters, excellent drivers and kick out the ball. Trading one would put us in a bind especially if another gets injured like the Suns game where only harden played and the suns zoned in on him and shut our offense down.

 

Valid point, I'm in agreement.

 

In addition, I would like to point out to those thinking James Harden is a PG that I would expect to have similar results as the Lakers who are currently being forced to have Kobe play their PG position due to all their injuries.

Edited by rocketrick, 15 December 2013 - 07:47 AM.

[Buckko]

I personally don't think kobe is as good passer as harden, I have to admit harden is getting better at making mystifying passes.

[RollingWave]

Meh, the media's reading of Morey's intent have generally been terrible. sources or no source,  the Harden trade, from what we can gather now a year + after , almost all the other 28 exec were shocked and didn't see it coming,  given this sort of track record, what sort of reliability can you say for their feelers on what Morey's doing?

 

The team would need to stick with a group of guys sooner or later to really go all the way. if you keep flipping the roster over and over that'll never happen, wihch is why I doubt they keep making dramatic move, I was even more on the Asik won't move train , and even now I still feel that was the team's original hope given everything they've done /said, but then Asik is forcing his way out which is obviously a bit different.

 

My not so bold prediction, the final Asik trade will be abosalutely nothing like what's been rumored so far. it probably wont' even be with any of the teams mentioned (Atl / Phi / NoP / Mil etc.) it's just what Morey do

Edited by RollingWave, 15 December 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[Sir Thursday]

Meh, the media's reading of Morey's intent have generally been terrible. sources or no source,  the Harden trade, from what we can gather now a year + after , almost all the other 28 exec were shocked and didn't see it coming,  given this sort of track record, what sort of reliability can you say for their feelers on what Morey's doing?

 

The team would need to stick with a group of guys sooner or later to really go all the way. if you keep flipping the roster over and over that'll never happen, wihch is why I doubt they keep making dramatic move, I was even more on the Asik won't move train , and even now I still feel that was the team's original hope given everything they've done /said, but then Asik is forcing his way out which is obviously a bit different.

 

My not so bold prediction, the final Asik trade will be abosalutely nothing like what's been rumored so far. it probably wont' even be with any of the teams mentioned (Atl / Phi / NoP / Mil etc.) it's just what Morey do

 

Yeah, I think I agree. I can't remember the last time a Morey trade ever got scooped well in advance. He plays his cards close to his chest on these things.

 

I don't trust the Alan Hahn report as quoted (unfortunately I am not currently somewhere where I can listen to the audio) for the simple reason that the facts he relays seem to be trivially true. For the right price, any player on the Rockets would be available (including Harden - you think Morey says no if the Heat come along and offer LeBron James straight up?). Morey is a GM who keeps all his options open, and if deal comes along that he thinks significantly improves the team and involves dealing Lin, then he will do it. But the key part there is "he thinks significantly improves the team". He is not going to pull the trigger on a lateral move at this point, since that is not what the Rockets need right now.

 

So I don't think this report actually indicates a change in any way from the status quo. It's just that by phrasing it in such provocative terms it makes it sound like something may be happening, when actually it's the same as it ever was.

 

ST

[Cooper]

Kobe isn't the reason the lakers are bad.

[Steven]

Kobe isn't the reason the lakers are bad.

Just the fact he eats up so much of the salary cap is coincidence?

[Cooper]

His contract will hurt them this offseason but spending money hasn't been an issue for them in the past they just made some dumb moves and pau fell off faster than they expected.

[thejohnnygold]

Valid point, I'm in agreement.

 

In addition, I would like to point out to those thinking James Harden is a PG that I would expect to have similar results as the Lakers who are currently being forced to have Kobe play their PG position due to all their injuries.

 

I'm guessing this is in response to our conversation in the other thread.  For aid in understanding my perspective and, hopefully, to avoid anymore misunderstanding I will re-post this LINK.

 

In a nutshell, it is an analytically driven re-evaluation of basketball positions that throws the standard 1-5 positions out the window.

 

Below is the breakdown of the 13 positions he came up with and it is largely the foundation for how I view the Rockets' roster.  It is the reason we covet players like Harden and Howard while turning outcasts into super-subs like Lin, Casspi and Garcia.  The right blend of skills creates a strong 5 man unit and, depending on the flow of the game, can be altered to create different effects.  This isn't groundbreaking in theory as in-game adjustments have been around forever.  I am presuming they have privately generated data that shows which line-ups excel at defense, offense, and balance.  Much like recipes, they can blend their ingredients to make perfectly balanced dishes, or line-ups.  Basically, there are guards, forwards, and centers.  It is their skills which define their position--not the moniker next to their name on the roster (pg, sg, sf, pf, c)

 

Here are the 13 positions:

 

1. Offensive Ball-Handler. This guy handles the ball and specializes in points, free throws and shots attempted, but is below average in steals and blocks. Examples include Jason Terry and Tony Parker.
2. Defensive Ball-Handler. This is a defense-minded player who handles the ball and specializes in assists and steals, but is only so-so when it comes to points, free throws and shots. See also: Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry.
3. Combo Ball-Handler. These players are adept at both offense and defense but don’t stand out in either category. Examples include Jameer Nelson and John Wall.
4. Shooting Ball-Handler. Someone with a knack for scoring, characterized by above-average field goal attempts and points. Stephen Curry and Manu Ginobili are examples.
5. Role-Playing Ball-Handler. These guys play fewer minutes and don’t have as big a statistical impact on the game. Hello, Arron Afflalo and Rudy Fernandez.
6. 3-Point Rebounder. Such a player is a ball-handler and big man above average in rebounds and three-pointers, both attempted and made, compared to ball-handlers. Luol Deng and Chase Budinger fit the bill.
7. Scoring Rebounder. He grabs the ball frequently and demands attention when on offense. Dirk Nowitzki and LaMarcus Aldridge play this position.
8. Paint Protector. A big man like Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler known for blocking shots and getting rebounds, but also for racking up more fouls than points.
9. Scoring Paint Protector. These players stand out on offense and defense, scoring, rebounding and blocking shots at a very high rate. Examples include Kevin Love and Blake Griffin.
10. NBA 1st-Team. This is a select group of players so far above average in every statistical category that the software simply groups them together regardless of their height or weight. Kevin Durant and LeBron James fall in this category.
11. NBA 2nd-Team. Not quite as good, but still really, really good. Rudy Gay and Caron Butler are examples.
12. Role Player. Slightly less skilled than the 2nd-team guys, and they don’t play many minutes. Guys like Shane Battier and Ronnie Brewer fall under this position.
13. One-of-a-Kind. These guys are so good they are off the charts — literally. The software could not connect them to any other player. Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard are examples, but you already knew that.

[rocketrick]

 

I'm guessing this is in response to our conversation in the other thread.  For aid in understanding my perspective and, hopefully, to avoid anymore misunderstanding I will re-post this LINK.

 

In a nutshell, it is an analytically driven re-evaluation of basketball positions that throws the standard 1-5 positions out the window.

 

Below is the breakdown of the 13 positions he came up with and it is largely the foundation for how I view the Rockets' roster.  It is the reason we covet players like Harden and Howard while turning outcasts into super-subs like Lin, Casspi and Garcia.  The right blend of skills creates a strong 5 man unit and, depending on the flow of the game, can be altered to create different effects.  This isn't groundbreaking in theory as in-game adjustments have been around forever.  I am presuming they have privately generated data that shows which line-ups excel at defense, offense, and balance.  Much like recipes, they can blend their ingredients to make perfectly balanced dishes, or line-ups.  Basically, there are guards, forwards, and centers.  It is their skills which define their position--not the moniker next to their name on the roster (pg, sg, sf, pf, c)

 

Here are the 13 positions:

 

1. Offensive Ball-Handler. This guy handles the ball and specializes in points, free throws and shots attempted, but is below average in steals and blocks. Examples include Jason Terry and Tony Parker.
2. Defensive Ball-Handler. This is a defense-minded player who handles the ball and specializes in assists and steals, but is only so-so when it comes to points, free throws and shots. See also: Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry.
3. Combo Ball-Handler. These players are adept at both offense and defense but don’t stand out in either category. Examples include Jameer Nelson and John Wall.
4. Shooting Ball-Handler. Someone with a knack for scoring, characterized by above-average field goal attempts and points. Stephen Curry and Manu Ginobili are examples.
5. Role-Playing Ball-Handler. These guys play fewer minutes and don’t have as big a statistical impact on the game. Hello, Arron Afflalo and Rudy Fernandez.
6. 3-Point Rebounder. Such a player is a ball-handler and big man above average in rebounds and three-pointers, both attempted and made, compared to ball-handlers. Luol Deng and Chase Budinger fit the bill.
7. Scoring Rebounder. He grabs the ball frequently and demands attention when on offense. Dirk Nowitzki and LaMarcus Aldridge play this position.
8. Paint Protector. A big man like Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler known for blocking shots and getting rebounds, but also for racking up more fouls than points.
9. Scoring Paint Protector. These players stand out on offense and defense, scoring, rebounding and blocking shots at a very high rate. Examples include Kevin Love and Blake Griffin.
10. NBA 1st-Team. This is a select group of players so far above average in every statistical category that the software simply groups them together regardless of their height or weight. Kevin Durant and LeBron James fall in this category.
11. NBA 2nd-Team. Not quite as good, but still really, really good. Rudy Gay and Caron Butler are examples.
12. Role Player. Slightly less skilled than the 2nd-team guys, and they don’t play many minutes. Guys like Shane Battier and Ronnie Brewer fall under this position.
13. One-of-a-Kind. These guys are so good they are off the charts — literally. The software could not connect them to any other player. Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard are examples, but you already knew that.

 

Actually I replied to Bucko who had stated the importance for the Rockets going forward in having 2/3 of these guys on the floor because of their playmaking abilities:  Harden, Lin and Parsons. The games that Lin and Parsons were both out, the Rockets struggled mightily.

 

I agreed with Bucko then made a separate point that Kobe as PG in LA is not working and that putting Harden as our (pure) PG would likely end up in similar results. Some readers like to think Harden is our PG.

 

Then Bucko responded back that he thought Harden was a better passer than Kobe. Which is hard to argue although Kobe is a pretty decent passer when he wants to be.

 

I remember reading your 13 position post earlier in the season and you're certainly right that more and more, players don't fit in the traditional NBA roles of PG, SG, SF, PF and C.

Edited by rocketrick, 15 December 2013 - 11:07 PM.

[RudyT1995]

Lin is listed as being out with back spasms.  Could this be it for him?

[thejohnnygold]

Is Parsons contagious?!?!?!

[RudyT1995]

I thought it looked suspicious because the injury seemingly came out of nowhere.  But they're saying that he's been in pain since Friday.

 

Didn't Harden have a sore back earlier in the season?  Rockets training staff needs to get these guys to do more core work.  

[rm90025]

Morey may want to reconsider shopping Lin and throw Beverley into the trade package after the loss against Sacramento.  Since he started playing the bulk of the minutes at the PG spot (following Lin's injury against ATL) Beverley has scored in double figures 3 times in 10 games, has shot over 40% in only 1 game, and averages more fouls than assists.  For those who think he's a defensive stopper, he was outplayed by Tony Parker, Trey Burke, Eric Bledsoe and Eric Bledsoe.  He arguably held his own against Damian Lillard and played well defensively in 1 game against Steph Curry.  I don't think he has outscored or out-assisted his PG counterpart in any game. 

[RudyT1995]

Beverley is expected to defend, hustle, and space the floor.  He's not expected to "outplay" the opposing PG with points and assists.  

 

What more do you want from a guy getting paid the league minimum?

[thenit]

Beverley is expected to defend, hustle, and space the floor.  He's not expected to "outplay" the opposing PG with points and assists.  
 
What more do you want from a guy getting paid the league minimum?

I agree, but what you get paid at the moment has nothing to do with expectations right now of a starter. It is what it is, if you are in the rotation you are suppose to just help the team win especially when you start. Bev has been ok, but he is a pest but when he faces teams who sets good screens he just runs into the big man hence he gets killed on the defensive side which makes him almost useless at those games. Just saying if he can shoot a little bit better and contribute a little more on offensive side he will be more valuable when he struggles at guarding his man

[Forthelin]

Knicks fans still butt-hurt over Lin leaving?  I don't get it.  It's been two years.  And, the Knicks suck without Lin.  They are still spreading rumors about Lin some 2000 miles away.  I just don't get it.  It sounds pretty personal.

[RudyT1995]

Rockets need to get a real starting PG so that Beverley can go back to being the energy guy off the bench again.  Expecting him to be the full time starter and be consistently effective playing full time starter minutes is too much for a guy who was in Russia this time last year and is getting paid the league minimum.   I think he may be the lowest paid rotation player in the league let alone on a playoff team.  

[jonc]

Don't really see Lin getting traded, Lin's actually playing well this season while Asik isn't and making matters worse by sulking. Sure if we can get some super great deal for Lin why not, but that's unlikely. Plus Lin isn't gonna sulk and demand a trade if we bench him. He's still great team player and with lots of potential.

[SDrake]

I can't see the Rockets trading Lin unless they get a quality point guard in return.  If you take Lin away from the team, then all the Rockets have at point guard is Beverley and Brooks, neither of which is a good point-guard option.

 

Beverley... Is he absent on offense?  Where are the assists?  I can't think of another point guard averaging 2 assists/game.  He has a poor PER of around 12.  A championship team needs more out of a point guard than a bunch of rebounds.

 

Brooks...  He's a backup.  Trade Lin and Beverley gets hurt, Brooks (or bringing up that rookie from the D League) isn't a starting option.

 

Trade Lin and the point guard position becomes very vulnerable.