90 replies to this topic

[Cooper]

Asik and Lin isn't a good enough package, I figure he ends up on the bulls or the blazers manage to keep him.

[rockets best fan]

Asik and Lin isn't a good enough package, I figure he ends up on the bulls or the blazers manage to keep him.

I disagree............I don't think the bulls or any other team can put together a better package than us. Portland isn't going to get a star for LMA. when they realize that. Houston will become the front runner. LMA will be a rocket. it's no longer a matter of if...........it's a matter of when

[Jeby]

I can't see Portland making a deal that doesn't involve getting back draft picks and cap space. Portland may have propreitary stats that tell them otherwise, but in my opinion, a move for someone like Love or Noah is lateral at best. If Portland ends up having another disappointing season, I think they ditch LMA for as many picks as possible and a salary filler like Lin, then try to tank as hard as possible.

[Rockets fan newton]

I disagree............I don't think the bulls or any other team can put together a better package than us. Portland isn't going to get a star for LMA. when they realize that. Houston will become the front runner. LMA will be a rocket. it's no longer a matter of if...........it's a matter of when

Unless Minny is doing bad early and demands a trade..I'm really sure that with the Camby signing we are getting ready for either K love or LA..which ever team is doing worse and the player demands trade we will jump on..and I think we can beat any package out there with draft picks prospects Tjones Lin and Asik..not saying we would give that much up..but if we want those guys and they are available we will get them

[Cooper]

I disagree............I don't think the bulls or any other team can put together a better package than us. Portland isn't going to get a star for LMA. when they realize that. Houston will become the front runner. LMA will be a rocket. it's no longer a matter of if...........it's a matter of when

They wouldn't want Lin at all with lillard and McCollum, they could use asik but an asik for Aldrige swap is a pretty substantial downgrade. If the bulls make a package around Noah or even taj, butler and their charolette pick. Plus other teams will be interested, there is very little chance the rockets will be getting LMA.

[timetodienow1234567]

The only way Lin gets traded is if he has a really good year. And if he's playing at a high level, there's really no reason to trade him.

[coachwood]

http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=kn6dbgn

 

5-d12/motie

4-LMA/Jones/smith

3-Parsons/garcia/williams

2-harden/shumpert

1-AB/Bev/Canaan

 

maybe throw a few extras at portland to replace batum

 

http://hoopshype.com...new_york_knicks

 

Input?...

[Steven]

0.0% chance Portland trades for Amar'e his contract is uninsurable.

[coachwood]

ok flipflop for bargnani...

[coachwood]

then add more fillers

[thenit]

I like the trades but Portland is the big loser while Knicks and rox wins the trade.
Like Steven said they won't take amare or bargnani

[John P]

I dont see LMA being traded for Asik....

For Asik with two first rounders maybe but you may  be forgetting that two first rounders of the Rockets on a team that has potentially 3 allstars is pretty bad

 

If Lin steadies the ship, becomes at least an average starter than maybe we get a three team deal done...but I think as LMA or Love get more dissatisfied with their teams the more their trade value falls as teams may read the need for a fire sale.

 

Also, I don't see all of the needed hype on Jones or any of our PFs or Smith.   Lots of people show up for summer league, summer camp, or whatever you want to call it.  Didn't we have the three best players last year in summer league?  I don't think it translates very well to the NBA.

Not that they can't be good, I just think that it is wishful thinking at this point.

 

By the way, I love this site.  By far the best rockets site out there.  Keep up the good work all.  I like how no one attacks anyone else.  I just want to talk shop, not insult other people.

[Rahat Huq]

I'd hate to trade Jones too fast before we see what he has in him.  

[Mario Peña]

Welcome to Red94 John P. Glad you like the forum and I hope you find some good discussion. We have a small community of Rockets fans that definitely doesn't always agree but we all strive to make informed arguments by presenting facts and theories that are thought out and civil. There are a diverse array of types of forum members with a good bit of emphasis on advanced stats which is definitely a great way to analyze basketball. Enjoy the Red94 forum!

[ale11]

I'd hate to trade Jones too fast before we see what he has in him.  

 

Remember how we felt about Lamb after summer league and how we all "hated" to lose him so fast? I bet noone misses him now....once you get the possibility of getting that kind of player, you do it for the greater good, and when you see the positive results, you don't miss the loss of some assets (Morey's thinking) anymore.

[Rahat Huq]

Remember how we felt about Lamb after summer league and how we all "hated" to lose him so fast? I bet noone misses him now....once you get the possibility of getting that kind of player, you do it for the greater good, and when you see the positive results, you don't miss the loss of some assets (Morey's thinking) anymore.

Good point.  Not to mention the fact that we will have to trade Asik eventually.

[RollingWave]

The difference of course, is that going from zero to 1 super star is the hardest step, while the usefulness of getting the 3rd star is highly debatable.

 

Let us point out an obvious fact, there will NOT be enough shots to go around if you play Harden / Howard / LMA together, Parson's and Lin or whoever's the PG will get about 0 shots a game outside of transition, and at least one of the 3 will need to reduce his attempts very significantly.

 

I have pointed this out on other sites, but let's just point out that Bosh and Allen both became very highly paid role players. the main stream believe that this is because Bosh sucks is amazingly idiotic.  as Bosh is essentially a considerably better version of LMA.  The difference is that obviously it makes more sense for Lebron to take most of the shots, while Wade without the ball would be even more useless than Bosh.

 

Here's a food for thought, in his final year in Seattle, Ray Allen averaged nearly 21 attempts a game (on top of 5 free throws) and scored 26 per game.  in his Boston career, his highest FGA / FTA / PPG was  13.5 / 3.2 / 18.2,  yeah.. his scoring dropped by at least 8 points. 8!!!.

 

This is what your getting if you get LMA here,  your completely kidding yourself if you think your getting a 21/9 guy,  chances are your getting a 15/9 guy at best.  due to the simple fact that.. well, there's only 1 basketball on the court. 

 

When you get 3 stars, one of them will almost always look like an overpaid role player, the only other way around that is if one of them primarily comes off the bench, aka Manu or... Harden on OKC, but that's not happening if your getting LMA obviously. 

 

The question is, what do you think Jones do if he has a full season.? his per 36 last year was 13.5/8.5 . if this can be replicated in a full starter role, that's essentially 90% of what you'll get with LMA on this team (probably with better defense too, LMA's not a great defender.), at 1/14 the cost.

 

With 2 stars, it is generally more reasonable to A. cover the benches so you don't have a gigantic drop off when they leave the floor, and B. define clear roles for the role players. 

 

 

 

So in conclusion I point out again, stars can make well defined role players look like fringe stars (see Ryan Anderson / Jameer Nelson  on the Dwight Magic). but 3 stars at the same time and surely one of them star looking like a very expensive role player.

 

 

This hasn't even gotten to the whole part of if Portland actually would trade LMA, chances are, they won't , not this season anyway, if they still bomb out of the playoffs (which is possible. the West remains insanely competitive.)  then this may be more realistic. but at this point. if I were Portland, the deal that would make me say yes, today, have to be along the lines of.

 

Lin+ Asik+Parsons + Jones + 2 first round picks for LMA + Batum, flipping either Robin Lopez or Asik and Lin to a 3rd team for even more draft picks.

[timetodienow1234567]

The difference of course, is that going from zero to 1 super star is the hardest step, while the usefulness of getting the 3rd star is highly debatable.

 

Let us point out an obvious fact, there will NOT be enough shots to go around if you play Harden / Howard / LMA together, Parson's and Lin or whoever's the PG will get about 0 shots a game outside of transition, and at least one of the 3 will need to reduce his attempts very significantly.

 

I have pointed this out on other sites, but let's just point out that Bosh and Allen both became very highly paid role players. the main stream believe that this is because Bosh sucks is amazingly idiotic.  as Bosh is essentially a considerably better version of LMA.  The difference is that obviously it makes more sense for Lebron to take most of the shots, while Wade without the ball would be even more useless than Bosh.

 

Here's a food for thought, in his final year in Seattle, Ray Allen averaged nearly 21 attempts a game (on top of 5 free throws) and scored 26 per game.  in his Boston career, his highest FGA / FTA / PPG was  13.5 / 3.2 / 18.2,  yeah.. his scoring dropped by at least 8 points. 8!!!.

 

This is what your getting if you get LMA here,  your completely kidding yourself if you think your getting a 21/9 guy,  chances are your getting a 15/9 guy at best.  due to the simple fact that.. well, there's only 1 basketball on the court. 

 

When you get 3 stars, one of them will almost always look like an overpaid role player, the only other way around that is if one of them primarily comes off the bench, aka Manu or... Harden on OKC, but that's not happening if your getting LMA obviously. 

 

The question is, what do you think Jones do if he has a full season.? his per 36 last year was 13.5/8.5 . if this can be replicated in a full starter role, that's essentially 90% of what you'll get with LMA on this team (probably with better defense too, LMA's not a great defender.), at 1/14 the cost.

 

With 2 stars, it is generally more reasonable to A. cover the benches so you don't have a gigantic drop off when they leave the floor, and B. define clear roles for the role players. 

 

 

 

So in conclusion I point out again, stars can make well defined role players look like fringe stars (see Ryan Anderson / Jameer Nelson  on the Dwight Magic). but 3 stars at the same time and surely one of them star looking like a very expensive role player.

 

 

This hasn't even gotten to the whole part of if Portland actually would trade LMA, chances are, they won't , not this season anyway, if they still bomb out of the playoffs (which is possible. the West remains insanely competitive.)  then this may be more realistic. but at this point. if I were Portland, the deal that would make me say yes, today, have to be along the lines of.

 

Lin+ Asik+Parsons + Jones + 2 first round picks for LMA + Batum, flipping either Robin Lopez or Asik and Lin to a 3rd team for even more draft picks.

 

The fact that you called Bosh better than LMA makes me give very little credence to your opinion as Aldridge is a better post player, defender, and rebounder. The only things Bosh is better at is the jumpshot and his newfound 3 point shot.. Your second point about how the third star is usually relegated to a smaller role. IMO, that's perfect for Howard. Howard's biggest assets are his defense and rebounding. We wouldn't need him to score that much if we have Harden/LMA/Parsons. Of course, there's his ego to consider. LMA has a legit post game and using him in the post game with Dwight being simply a PnR man would allow this offense to be phenomenal. Giving Dwight dunks, putbacks, and maybe 5 post ups a game would be ideal. Also, Bosh has been struggling because he's not as good off the ball. His defense has never been outstanding and  his rebounding is almost nonexistant. That wouldn't be the same situation.

[Mario Peña]

I don't really like the Aldridge fit. I would definitely take Dwight's ability to dominate down low over any low post game Aldridge has. Don't get me wrong I like Aldridge but I wonder how good of a fit he would really be, maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see it. I agree with some statements Olajuwon made in the Feigen interview that on both ends this team starts with Dwight, you go inside out.

[RollingWave]

Career rebounding Per 36

 

Bosh:  8.8

LMA : 7.9

 

TRB%

 

Bosh: 14.4

LMA: 13.2

 

Neither are great rebounders, but saying that LMA is the better of the two completely neglect all evidence to the contrary and simply base on "BECAUSE I SEE BOSH IS REALLY THIN!!!!!" 

 

As for defender.  they're basically similar, Bosh has a very very slight advantage in block numbers that essentially neglect able. they essentially have the same steal / block numbers. their career DrTG is similiar as well, Bosh is lower but mostly because of the last couple years on the Heat.

 

The problem is,  those 2 are very similar players, except that Bosh simply is better at their strength.  he's scored more AND at a higher efficiency.  their career TS% is 571 vs 537,  between age 21 to 25 Bosh scored 21.8 per 36, Aldridge 17 per. and this was roughly the same USG too.

 

Saying LMA is better than Bosh is just absurd.  your credibility better be that of a professional scout to make the case from that perspective, because from objective stat sheet perspective it's pretty damn clear Bosh is considerably better. 

Edited by RollingWave, 22 July 2013 - 03:24 AM.