155 replies to this topic

[Steven]

This is the complimentary thread to the other so that every 5th thread isn't drawn into the same beating of a dead horse. And the bs and wadding through applies here as well.

[phaketrash]

HAHA I love it. Touche. 

[rockets best fan]

you get no agreement from me.....sorry

[pharmag]

I don't fall in either camp?  Where am I supposed to practice my "McHale Religion"?  Someone needs to create a "McHale isn't great, but he shows progress" thread...only with a more witty name lol

[Mason Khamvilay]

Haha I agree with pharmag. I do find myself defending mchale more than I criticize him but only because he already gets more criticism than he deserves

[Steven]

I don't fall in either camp? Where am I supposed to practice my "McHale Religion"? Someone needs to create a "McHale isn't great, but he shows progress" thread...only with a more witty name lol

That's too sensible and falls within good reason. We can't have that on this forum.

[rockets best fan]

That's too sensible and falls within good reason. We can't have that on this forum.

now that's funny

[phaketrash]

That's too sensible and falls within good reason. We can't have that on this forum.

 

omg, never read clutchfans then. your mind will literally explode.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Sports forums in general are horrible in terms of quality posts (believe it or not Red94 probably has the best high-quality/low-quality posts ratio I've ever seen in a sports forum, at least half the guys here are very articulate and insightful in comparison to the standards that I'm accustomed to), but every now and then you might find someone at clutchfans who actually puts a lot of effort and insight into a post. Here's an example of a quality post at clutchfans that is very relevant to this thread: Clearing up misconceptions about McHale

[phaketrash]

Sports forums in general are horrible in terms of quality posts (believe it or not Red94 probably has the best high-quality/low-quality posts ratio I've ever seen in a sports forum, at least half the guys here are very articulate and insightful in comparison to the standards that I'm accustomed to), but every now and then you might find someone at clutchfans who actually puts a lot of effort and insight into a post. Here's an example of a quality post at clutchfans that is very relevant to this thread: Clearing up misconceptions about McHale

 

Oh don't get me wrong -- I read clutchfans too for a reason. It is a wonderful place to get updates/news quickly, and some really intelligent people are on there, like bimathug. That being said, because it has such a large population, you have to wade through a lot of mind-numbingly bad posts to find the good ones. There certainly can and almost always will be more variability within a smaller community, but that can be both a good thing and a bad thing.

[rockets best fan]

now that I have made my view more than clear I decided to talk about the few things I do see in McHale.......warning this statement may not be reproduced or copied (all or in part) to be used in any other debate or argument  even tho you see it here now I will deny it.  that's my story and i'm sticking with it   

A very young team like we have can be a hand full. McHale has created an environment where most of these young players feel at ease. I like how the guys on this team get along with each other. they seem to genuinely care for one another. not once have I seen players barking at each other in anger. McHale deserves some credit for creating this culture within such a young team. especially since these same guys are also competing for the same playing time. McHale is not a good coach now, but I have seen growth. I don't know if he will reach the level of becoming a good coach, but we could do worse(i'm looking at you vinny  ). McHale also deserves some credit for developing what I see as a very nice young stable of bigs. even tho some of there play is spotty right now, I have seen enough to know morey has done and outstanding job in assembling them. except for royce  morey has hit every other pitch out the yard. McHale deserves some credit for getting the team to play the style of offense that has lead to the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. i'm sure morey told him where on the floor he wants the shots to come from, but left it up to McHale to make it happen. I still wish we ran some low post stuff more often with d-mo, but maybe we will see more of that as d-mo develops. I wouldn't be distraught if the rockets hung on to McHale for another year, but would rather see him gone. I better stop now b4 some of you start to believe I like him or something

[phaketrash]

now that I have made my view more than clear I decided to talk about the few things I do see in McHale.......warning this statement may not be reproduced or copied (all or in part) to be used in any other debate or argument  even tho you see it here now I will deny it.  that's my story and i'm sticking with it   

A very young team like we have can be a hand full. McHale has created an environment where most of these young players feel at ease. I like how the guys on this team get along with each other. they seem to genuinely care for one another. not once have I seen players barking at each other in anger. McHale deserves some credit for creating this culture within such a young team. especially since these same guys are also competing for the same playing time. McHale is not a good coach now, but I have seen growth. I don't know if he will reach the level of becoming a good coach, but we could do worse(i'm looking at you vinny  ). McHale also deserves some credit for developing what I see as a very nice young stable of bigs. even tho some of there play is spotty right now, I have seen enough to know morey has done and outstanding job in assembling them. except for royce  morey has hit every other pitch out the yard. McHale deserves some credit for getting the team to play the style of offense that has lead to the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. i'm sure morey told him where on the floor he wants the shots to come from, but left it up to McHale to make it happen. I still wish we ran some low post stuff more often with d-mo, but maybe we will see more of that as d-mo develops. I wouldn't be distraught if the rockets hung on to McHale for another year, but would rather see him gone. I better stop now b4 some of you start to believe I like him or something

 

I agree with this, but set on top of my underlying belief that (as I have mentioned many times before) I don't think most coaches in the nba matter all that much at the end of the day. He does some things well, others he could do better, others he's gotten better at doing, but I still remain somewhat ambivalent because with him or without him, I see our team as roughly at the same place. 

[Sir Thursday]

Hmm, the worshipper starting the thread could at least have had the piety to spell the thread title right .

 

As I've said before, I feel like McHale deserves quite a bit of credit for fostering a productive and driven atmosphere in the locker room and on the court despite the lack of much in the way of veteran leadership. Most of the players seem to have developed or expanded at least one facet of their game over the course of the season, which is pleasing to see and bodes well for next year.

 

ST

[rocketrick]

now that I have made my view more than clear I decided to talk about the few things I do see in McHale.......warning this statement may not be reproduced or copied (all or in part) to be used in any other debate or argument  even tho you see it here now I will deny it.  that's my story and i'm sticking with it   

A very young team like we have can be a hand full. McHale has created an environment where most of these young players feel at ease. I like how the guys on this team get along with each other. they seem to genuinely care for one another. not once have I seen players barking at each other in anger. McHale deserves some credit for creating this culture within such a young team. especially since these same guys are also competing for the same playing time. McHale is not a good coach now, but I have seen growth. I don't know if he will reach the level of becoming a good coach, but we could do worse(i'm looking at you vinny  ). McHale also deserves some credit for developing what I see as a very nice young stable of bigs. even tho some of there play is spotty right now, I have seen enough to know morey has done and outstanding job in assembling them. except for royce  morey has hit every other pitch out the yard. McHale deserves some credit for getting the team to play the style of offense that has lead to the 2nd highest scoring team in the league. i'm sure morey told him where on the floor he wants the shots to come from, but left it up to McHale to make it happen. I still wish we ran some low post stuff more often with d-mo, but maybe we will see more of that as d-mo develops. I wouldn't be distraught if the rockets hung on to McHale for another year, but would rather see him gone. I better stop now b4 some of you start to believe I like him or something

 

I must say I am pleasantly surprised at RBF's sensible pro-Coach McHale comments. I promise to try to not quote you elsewhere as the conversation continues in the days and weeks to come........... 

 

This may be the last season to bash poor Vinny though, unless the Clippers can manage to get out of the 1sr round this year.

[rocketrick]

I agree with this, but set on top of my underlying belief that (as I have mentioned many times before) I don't think most coaches in the nba matter all that much at the end of the day. He does some things well, others he could do better, others he's gotten better at doing, but I still remain somewhat ambivalent because with him or without him, I see our team as roughly at the same place. 

 

I have a hard time agreeing with any of this. Most Coaches in the NBA Do Matter because they are the ones who have to organize practices, determine a team's playing philosophy, teach young players one on one, work in tandem with their assistants to devise new schemes offensively and defensively, determine the rotation of players, who starts, who sits, who comes off the bench, on and on.

 

I think it's too simplistic to say in the heat of game action that most coaches in the NBA don't matter because it's everything else behind the scenes leading up to game time that ultimately determines the success or failure of a team in my opinion.

[Steven]

Hmm, the worshipper starting the thread could at least have had the piety to spell the thread title right .

As I've said before, I feel like McHale deserves quite a bit of credit for fostering a productive and driven atmosphere in the locker room and on the court despite the lack of much in the way of veteran leadership. Most of the players seem to have developed or expanded at least one facet of their game over the course of the season, which is pleasing to see and bodes well for next year.

ST

So I'm illiterate. Stop making fun of me.

[bboley24]

We must fast until the playoffs.  (que the monk's hummmm)  aaaaaaaaahhhhhh aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh aaaaaahhhhh ahhhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhhhh

[datruth]

I'm happy that we can disagree to agree. Just win baby.

[phaketrash]

I have a hard time agreeing with any of this. Most Coaches in the NBA Do Matter because they are the ones who have to organize practices, determine a team's playing philosophy, teach young players one on one, work in tandem with their assistants to devise new schemes offensively and defensively, determine the rotation of players, who starts, who sits, who comes off the bench, on and on.

 

I think it's too simplistic to say in the heat of game action that most coaches in the NBA don't matter because it's everything else behind the scenes leading up to game time that ultimately determines the success or failure of a team in my opinion.

 

<insert article on study that I most often use for my support>

 

All those things you mentioned are important, but I'm not saying we should have no coach (or a coaching staff), just that most head coaches don't really matter all that much. There are exceptions of course, but player execution and roster composition just matter so much more so (overwhelmingly moreso). I honestly believe that if we had another random "average" coach leading the Rockets, we'd be about where we are now. 

 

This is separate, of course, from an organization's overall culture. A coach may be a part of that culture, but rarely is he the sole tentpole holding it up. Again, there are the extremes who are exceptions. It really just boils down to, I believe you could swap out most coaches in the nba w/ some other coach in the nba, and you would not see a markedly noticeable difference with the team's overall results.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I think coaches do matter, but there are certain aspects of coaching that are very overrated. For example I think x's and o's are overrated, Phil Jackson was not a good x's and o's guy but he had the humility to defer to Tex Winters for that. McHale often defers to Sampson so that's a good sign. McHale has also mentioned sitting down with his assistant coaches and talking for hours after the losses to Memphis and Indiana, and whatever they talked worked if the games against LAC and ORL were any indication. We went from being the victims of physical brutality to becoming the new bullies on the block. 

 

The most important aspect of coaching is being a motivator, this is what PJ was best at. So I guess the question is, is McHale a good motivator? I guess that's up to you to decide. So far, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.