: Harden might be 5-7 right now but we have to remember that D-Rose and Kevin Love are players who are likely better than Harden who haven't been able to play this season.
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Harden is the fifth best player in the NBA
Started by Jason, Mar 09 2013 05:50 PM
82 replies to this topic
#22 
Jason
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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:10 PM
Harden might be 5-7 right now but we have to remember that D-Rose and Kevin Love are players who are likely better than Harden who haven't been able to play this season.
Disagree. I would put Harden over both of them.
#23
Mason Khamvilay
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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:23 PM
I'll reserve judgment on Rose until I see him back, playing a few months after his injury. Under 25, I think Harden has got to be the best. Kyrie is being quite amazing though. Haha silly LAC and their silly trades.
Kyrie is amazing, and to think he's only 20 until December.
As for Rose, he's great when he goes to the rim, but he takes way too many 3's and long jump shots at a low efficiency rate.
#24
thejohnnygold
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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:33 PM
Right now, I think it is fair to assess Harden on a range. He has been inconsistent (which is fine for now) and could fall anywhere between 3rd and 20th on any given night. We don't want a Monta Ellis/Tyreke Evans/Brandon Jennings kind of guy....As he develops consistency I think we will be able to better gauge his standing amongst the league's elite.
#25
Jason
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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:09 PM
Right now, I think it is fair to assess Harden on a range. He has been inconsistent (which is fine for now) and could fall anywhere between 3rd and 20th on any given night. We don't want a Monta Ellis/Tyreke Evans/Brandon Jennings kind of guy....As he develops consistency I think we will be able to better gauge his standing amongst the league's elite.
Disagree. His has shooting slumps just like any player in the league does, outside of maybe Lebron. But even when he has off shooting nights he finds ways to help the team win and still scores 20 pts with free throws. Last night was a perfect example. So no, I would not call him inconsistent at all.
#26
Mason Khamvilay
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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:46 PM
I agree and disagree with both of you. I think Harden's shooting has been inconsistent this season, he has nights where he misses shots and lay-ups that he usually makes. But it's also true that Harden is such a smart and versatile player who can find ways to be effective even if his shot isn't falling, and last night was a good example of him utalizing his passing ability and ability to get to the line to compensate for the fact his shot was off. Harden got blocked 3 times in the first quarter, and he followed that up with several lay-ups and jump shots that he usually doesn't miss.
With all that being said, if 20pts and 12 assists is what Harden puts up when he has an off-shooting-night, I feel sorry for defenses when he has an on-shooting-night.
#27
Jason
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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:54 PM
I agree and disagree with both of you. I think Harden's shooting has been inconsistent this season, he has nights where he misses shots and lay-ups that he usually makes. But it's also true that Harden is such a smart and versatile player who can find ways to be effective even if his shot isn't falling, and last night was a good example of him utalizing his passing ability and ability to get to the line to compensate for the fact his shot was off. Harden got blocked 3 times in the first quarter, and he followed that up with several lay-ups and jump shots that he usually doesn't miss.
With all that being said, if 20pts and 12 assists is what Harden puts up when he has an off-shooting-night, I feel sorry for defenses when he has an on-shooting-night.
Exactly. And this is the sign of a superstar. What superstar didn't have off shooting nights? Even Jordan had some horrid shooting performances in his day.
#29
bballguy
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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:46 PM
Right now, I think it is fair to assess Harden on a range. He has been inconsistent (which is fine for now) and could fall anywhere between 3rd and 20th on any given night. We don't want a Monta Ellis/Tyreke Evans/Brandon Jennings kind of guy....As he develops consistency I think we will be able to better gauge his standing amongst the league's elite.
I completely agree with this. While Harden is great, he has been inconsistent. If you look at Harden's stats, when we lose he only shoots 40%. When we win he shoots almost 49%. If Harden can be consistent with his jumper, I think we can put Harden in the top 5.
#30
Mason Khamvilay
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:00 AM
Interesting fact: In PnR (pick and roll) situations Harden is a 48% shooter, but in iso situations he's a 40% shooter.
Parker is 50% on PnR situations and he PnRs on 50% of his possessions, Harden only PnRs on 30% of his posessions.
So I can't help but wonder, if the Rockets ran more PnR's would Harden become even more absurdly efficient than he already is? Personally I would love to see multiple PnRs coming from multiple directions on every possession, just like the Knicks were doing during the Linsanity period.
#31
Jason
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:37 AM
I repeat, all superstars have shooting slumps and bad games. That does not make them inconsistent as players, it just makes them human.
#32
thejohnnygold
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:31 PM
I repeat, all superstars have shooting slumps and bad games. That does not make them inconsistent as players, it just makes them human.
I don't think anyone refutes that. Harden is able to mask his streaky shooting with his free throws. Look back over the season and see that his scoring efficiency comes from the line...not the field. When his FG% becomes more consistent I think we will have a better idea of where he ranks...and I do believe it will be high.
#33
thejohnnygold
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:41 PM
Here, to support what I'm saying, are some of his shooting stats from this year....all of these are sub 40% except one which is exactly 40% (8-20)
8-24
5-15
4-18
6-17
7-18
1-6
3-16
3-19
6-17
7-18
6-17
8-20
5-23
5-19
5-18
5-20
7-22
7-18
5-17
3-17
Yeah....that's a lot of bad shooting games....twenty to be exact....20 out of 64 games played....1 out of every 3.2. In my estimation that is too inconsistent. I think he will improve...until then, I reserve judgement.
#34
Mason Khamvilay
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:45 PM
If Harden's shot was more consistent, and if he used pick and rolls/screens as frequently as Parker does (gotta give Pop and Parker credit for their high IQ style of play), he would probably be leading the league in scoring.
#35
timetodienow1234567
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:45 PM
Here, to support what I'm saying, are some of his shooting stats from this year....all of these are sub 40% except one which is exactly 40% (8-20)
8-24
5-15
4-18
6-17
7-18
1-6
3-16
3-19
6-17
7-18
6-17
8-20
5-23
5-19
5-18
5-20
7-22
7-18
5-17
3-17
Yeah....that's a lot of bad shooting games....twenty to be exact....20 out of 64 games played....1 out of every 3.2. In my estimation that is too inconsistent. I think he will improve...until then, I reserve judgement.
I bet all of these other guys HATE Lebron. He's setting a new standard that's starting to apply to everybody.
Why so Serious? 
#36
thejohnnygold
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 07:56 PM
It's true. The days of Allen Iverson are gone (sorry Monta Ellis). Still, we are looking at Lebron at his peak right now. Harden has a chance to go Oscar Robertson down the road....I think we could end up seeing him shoot a little less, but more efficiently while racking up assists and rebounds.
#37
PKM
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:41 PM
I would put Kyrie Irving in there too. Look at the cavs team and how he is raising that team to not too far from playoffs.
Not too far from the playoffs? The Suns are closer to an 8th seed than Cleveland, how is not too far?
#38
Rahat Huq
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:34 AM
Harden might be 5-7 right now but we have to remember that D-Rose and Kevin Love are players who are likely better than Harden who haven't been able to play this season.
I disagree. Rose was one of the most overrated MVP's of all-time.
I also emphatically disagree on Kevin Love. But most here disagree with me on that.
#39
Jason
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:57 AM
I disagree. Rose was one of the most overrated MVP's of all-time.
I also emphatically disagree on Kevin Love. But most here disagree with me on that.
Agree with you on both. Harden is a better player than Rose and Kevin Love
#40
Steven
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Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:04 AM
I disagree. Rose was one of the most overrated MVP's of all-time.
I also emphatically disagree on Kevin Love. But most here disagree with me on that.
Only when you're wrong. Here you're not. Rose stole LeBron's MVP (kinda like Barkley did with MJ's, or Robinson did with Hakeem's). Love is a top 10 player, but Harden is better.
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