294 replies to this topic

[phaketrash]

disagree. you don't know everybody. go to hoopsworld and take a look at all the teams who are going to have salary cap problems next year. some of them still believe they can make a run this year so they have not made their players available yet. however as hopes fade at seasons end they may be open to moving a star the way okc did. we only knew about harden a couple of weeks b4 he actually got traded. not every team will have a fire sale, but most likely some will.......dropping fresh talent on the trading block. I just don't want to paint ourselfs into a corner on a quick fix and miss out on a bigger prize.

i have to agree with Cooper on this one. I understand your hesitancy, but there are few names that come to mind that fit that category, and even then we'd have to compare it to acquiring Gasol (value vs. value). furthermore, we'd have to hope that the talent is both good AND young, or else it is just another old piece (like a Pierce vs. Gasol conundrum, which isn't much of a quandary at all tbh). I like the stopgap measure, and i like each one for diff reasons. Gasol's ends next yr so we get flexibility sooner; KG because, depending what we give away, lets us keep $$$. i just dont see either happening.

KG won't agree to come to HOU, a budding young team. he doesn't want to start over. he wants to chase a championship -- guy is in his twilight yrs. isn't the time for him to agree to a trade just to start from scratch on a non-contender. why not just sit out his time on a non-contender then? lol

Gasol wont be moved now i bet. LAL is winning again, and so is HOU. Gasol changes our playstyle a lot. we'd have a post game, but then we'd have to work on our post game haha. run and gun is harder w/ gasol. we'd also almost definitely give up a wing player. even if we keep parsons (no way id trade him), delfino is prob gone. delfino's been consistently good for us lately, so losing him would hurt us and change our strategy even more. every day, it seems less and less likely a Gasol -> HOU deal happens.

[rockets best fan]

You have a very good idea on everybody, because guys can't force a trade unless they have 2yrs left Max and those are only the best of the best players. Yeah the bulls might dump boozer but he sucks,maybe Memphis still dumps gay but he has more of a long term deal than gasol or KG and isn't better than either. There aren't going to be anyone franchise changing until 2014 unless Howard or Paul decide to leave this year. Also it was generally understood that the thunder had to choose between harden or ibaka.

you're talking about only the players, what about the teams. true some players force trades, but teams can trade when ever they think its in their best interest. you think rudy gay ask to be on the trade market? how about z-bo? gasol? we don't need some star to force their way out as the only means of trade. teams can trade players regardless of what the players think. if you're watching only the players end of it you're only watching half the story.

[rockets best fan]

phakethash:
I do believe gasol has something left in the tank. if we could get him for nothing then maybe, but give up some of your young assets to help the lakers get out of a jam............NO WAY. pau would provide a solution to 1 of my biggest beefs with the current offense (no low post threat). however are you telling me you believe the man is worth 19 mil this season and 19 mil next? we are not in position to play with monopoly money like LA can. whoever we choose to pursue will restrict our ability too make other moves. is he really worth it? yes there will be a few more wins on the slate, but we may have just settled for 1st prize instead of the grand prize. and me i'm a grand prize kind of guy

[Cooper]

you're talking about only the players, what about the teams. true some players force trades, but teams can trade when ever they think its in their best interest. you think rudy gay ask to be on the trade market? how about z-bo? gasol? we don't need some star to force their way out as the only means of trade. teams can trade players regardless of what the players think. if you're watching only the players end of it you're only watching half the story.

I thought that's what you were talking about? Would zbo or gasol not be a stop gaap? No team is just going to dump a legit star player. Rudy gay can't demand a trade he isn't good enough and is locked up long term, Memphis just wants to see what they could get for him since they are uncomfortable with his contract size. You said earlier we shouldn't go for guys that ruin our flexibility so that we couldnt get a real star and he does exactly that. I don't understand your point?

[Stephen]

I used to be a huge fan of getting Gasol.
But this season has changed my mind.
The thing is,he's NOT a PF,not any more. He has zero lateral movement so he can't defend anyone out in space. His outside shot is spotty at best and he struggles to hit anything beyond the FT line.
Quite frankly he'd be a terrible fit next to Asik and I sure wouldn't want to replace Asik w/Gasol unless we're also getting a rebounding,defending floor-spacing PF.

I would be in favor of getting Garnett,but I don't see Boston trading him for what Houston could offer,mainly because there's no C we would trade. Garnett may be old,but he's still active on D,makes the FT out jumper,spacing the court,is a great pick-n-pop shooter,would be a huge upgrade to the D,can play C,adds a little nasty to a team that doesn't have any and by all accounts is a great teammate and has been known to mentor players willing to learn.
As for the no-trade clause,if McHale calls and says I need you,I wonder if Garnett says no.

[rockets best fan]

I thought that's what you were talking about? Would zbo or gasol not be a stop gaap? No team is just going to dump a legit star player. Rudy gay can't demand a trade he isn't good enough and is locked up long term, Memphis just wants to see what they could get for him since they are uncomfortable with his contract size. You said earlier we shouldn't go for guys that ruin our flexibility so that we couldnt get a real star and he does exactly that. I don't understand your point?

i'm not saying trade for any of those players. i'm saying wait and see what hits the trade market at seasons end. don't tie up our cap room with quick fixes. think more long term. that's what I want the rockets to do.

[thejohnnygold]

For those thinking about any trade involving D-Mo...I put forth this interesting bit of data:

Dirk Nowitzki's Career Stats

Dirk is a comparable player, in my eyes, to Motie....except I think Motie might be more mobile/athletic.

Dirk did not set the league on fire at first....and he was used sparingly his first year.....about 20 mins a game.

That was before the D-League. I think letting D-Mo develop further is paramount for the Rockets' future.....if we can pull a Dirk-level player out of thin air next season (even if it is mid-way through) that would be huge and put to bed all of our concerns about the PF position. Plus, I still think Morris has a lot of room to grow. Patterson I think can develop into a solid Horace Grant-type player (with better range). All in all, unless something amazing comes knocking at our door I would pass on the PF's available and any stop-gaps....it would just hinder the development of the guys we have and possibly cost us one or more of them. Plus there is T. Jones to think about....

[phaketrash]

phakethash:
I do believe gasol has something left in the tank. if we could get him for nothing then maybe, but give up some of your young assets to help the lakers get out of a jam............NO WAY. pau would provide a solution to 1 of my biggest beefs with the current offense (no low post threat). however are you telling me you believe the man is worth 19 mil this season and 19 mil next? we are not in position to play with monopoly money like LA can. whoever we choose to pursue will restrict our ability too make other moves. is he really worth it? yes there will be a few more wins on the slate, but we may have just settled for 1st prize instead of the grand prize. and me i'm a grand prize kind of guy

but then we'd never make a move. it'd only tie us up for a season and a half, and it isn't just wins -- it would be a playoff spot. that means ATL gets our pick for sure and we now have our 2014 pick freed up for trades/use. yay! also, our youngest team in the nba would get some much needed playoff experience. that by itself is worth it.

is gasol worth $19M? no, but that is $19M that comes off the books in 2014. that's nice. im just not too sure what other deals we'd be giving up, in reality. the harden deal was very unique, and im STILL surprised OKC agreed to it...and besides, we could have made that deal anyways -- cap space wasn't the issue (we even reduced our cap in that trade). so is there a chance another deal like that might happen? sure...but i put it very low, low enough where the value i get from the % of that happening and rockets succeeding in a bid for that player < value of gasol on our team. i don't think any team in the next yr is going to offer onto the market a YOUNG future all star, like a paul george. unlikely to happen. all we'll get are aging players and those on unfavorable contracts (i.e., rudy gay). we don't want those either, or they are at least on par w/ getting gasol.

im an advocate of gasol, though i do have my hesitations as well. others have noted them, such as gasol in the 4 next to asik isnt' super effective, or can mchale adapt and make a post-friendly system w/ gasol? i do worry about those, and in no means do i think a gasol trade is perfect. i dont even think it is likely at this point. that being said, i put it up there next to "do essentially nothing and leave us flexible." other moves we make reduce flexibility too. gasol's is one of the potential moves (compared to getting millsap or JSmith or whatever) that lets us keep more flexibility while improving.

[phaketrash]

For those thinking about any trade involving D-Mo...I put forth this interesting bit of data:

Dirk Nowitzki's Career Stats

Dirk is a comparable player, in my eyes, to Motie....except I think Motie might be more mobile/athletic.

Dirk did not set the league on fire at first....and he was used sparingly his first year.....about 20 mins a game.

That was before the D-League. I think letting D-Mo develop further is paramount for the Rockets' future.....if we can pull a Dirk-level player out of thin air next season (even if it is mid-way through) that would be huge and put to bed all of our concerns about the PF position. Plus, I still think Morris has a lot of room to grow. Patterson I think can develop into a solid Horace Grant-type player (with better range). All in all, unless something amazing comes knocking at our door I would pass on the PF's available and any stop-gaps....it would just hinder the development of the guys we have and possibly cost us one or more of them. Plus there is T. Jones to think about....

im all for TJones and Motie getting more minutes. not happening much though :X

[rockets best fan]

phaketrash:
is it better to make a bad move than no move at all? the rockets are dealing from a position of strength. we can afford to take our time and make the right deal. the team has exceeded expectation this year. we need to allow the team to grow. YES we will need a trade at some point to move to the next level, but trading away players b4 we know what we have on quick fix projects don't cut it for me. I made a point b4 of this and I will say it again. just because our rooks have not seen a lot of pt may be due more to coaching than their inability to blossom. the rockets seem to have a system under mchale where(other than parsons)rooks don't play much. seems like they get their chance in year 2. remember when everyone was trashing mm as a bust? the rocket seem to prefer rooks to under study how to be good nba players and develop their games in year 1. that's why I believe we may still have a star on the bench. it was time for ppat and mm to have their chance. d-mo and t jones will get their's next year. I don't necessarily agree with the way they do it, but it is what it is. I have been observing this pattern by the team for a few years now. that's why they are more keen on using the d-league than a lot of other nba teams. i'm not against a trade.......again i'm not against a trade. i'm against the wrong kind of trade. I don't want other teams castoffs.

[phaketrash]

phaketrash:
is it better to make a bad move than no move at all? the rockets are dealing from a position of strength. we can afford to take our time and make the right deal. the team has exceeded expectation this year. we need to allow the team to grow. YES we will need a trade at some point to move to the next level, but trading away players b4 we know what we have on quick fix projects don't cut it for me. I made a point b4 of this and I will say it again. just because our rooks have not seen a lot of pt may be due more to coaching than their inability to blossom. the rockets seem to have a system under mchale where(other than parsons)rooks don't play much. seems like they get their chance in year 2. remember when everyone was trashing mm as a bust? the rocket seem to prefer rooks to under study how to be good nba players and develop their games in year 1. that's why I believe we may still have a star on the bench. it was time for ppat and mm to have their chance. d-mo and t jones will get their's next year. I don't necessarily agree with the way they do it, but it is what it is. I have been observing this pattern by the team for a few years now. that's why they are more keen on using the d-league than a lot of other nba teams. i'm not against a trade.......again i'm not against a trade. i'm against the wrong kind of trade. I don't want other teams castoffs.

lol, the disagreement then just comes down to whether we think a deal for Gasol is a good trade or not. i mean, if i thought it was a bad one, i wouldnt advocate for it ultimately, it does come down to what pieces such a hypothetical trade would entail. im not sure how i would feel about what pieces we would have to give up. but regardless, i think the prospect of such a deal happening is getting more and more unlikely with each passing day (for various reasons).

[areteejay789]

If it came down to it, i would be happy to just trade Delfino (he works now, but wont be around when we compete for a championship) and one of the PFs who actually play (2Pat or morris). Delfino has pretty high value right now, as hes both playing well, and on a team option for next year (at a reasonable 3 mill). Pretty much everyone wants a player like that, because they can either keep him if things are going well, or cut him to lower salary. As for the PFs, it would free up playing time for either t jones or D-Mo, and maybe get us a first in return. As long as losing one of them wouldnt stop us from making the playoffs, i think that would be a good idea, especially as they are so similar.

[thejohnnygold]

Guys. Gasol is not happening. $19,000,000.00. To trade for him would cost us too much in young talent. No one wants Aldrich (unless he comes with a player like Harden). Delfino is somewhat desirable. After that, we don't have big contracts to play with. Unless you plan on sending Lin, Asik, or Harden to LA this deal would bankrupt us of young talent and depth. For a 1.5 year Pau rental? Besides, can't you see the beauty of no one trading for Pau? He is miserable and getting more vocal about it everyday. He has their cap locked down until 2014. It's like having a spy in the laker's organization making it harder for them to succeed...and we don't even have to pay him. Let him do his work for us.....

[thejohnnygold]

Here is the best possible trade scenario for Houston and LA straight up for Pau

Clearly a 3-4 team deal is necessary, but this isn't "barter kings". To "trade up" we have to give a few pieces to a team that is willing to give more to another team that is willing to give more to the lakers....ah, but here is the problem. We still have to move an appropriate amount of salary to qualify the trade under league rules since we are bringing in $19,000,000.00!!!!! So, it's just not happening. Personally, I am glad despite the fact that I like Pau's game.

[blakecouey]

In case anyone hasn't seen:

Rudy Gay is being sent to Toronto in a 3 team deal with the Pistons as the 3rd.

http://sports.yahoo....-230755012.html

[areteejay789]

Who says no to this trade?
http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=a5kub6p


I dont know what the mavs rotation is like, so i dont really know what they would think, but surely they have to make a move, even just for the sake of making a move... They are not looking good right now at all...

[areteejay789]

Or this, if Boston wants to stay all in, and Dallas doesn't want J-Lin?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

[Ostrow]

The Lakers

[phaketrash]

Or this, if Boston wants to stay all in, and Dallas doesn't want J-Lin?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Just trade machine default

[phaketrash]

Who says no to this trade?
http://espn.go.com/n...tradeId=a5kub6p


I dont know what the mavs rotation is like, so i dont really know what they would think, but surely they have to make a move, even just for the sake of making a move... They are not looking good right now at all...

Without getting into the specifics, I think that trade would force the Lakers over their max 15 players.