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@  majik19 : (25 October 2015 - 08:26 PM) also read the Zach Lowe article - he's definitely drinking the kool-aid, and for good reason! I don't know if we're the biggest regular season threat (howard's health), but I think we are in the playoffs.
@  majik19 : (25 October 2015 - 08:25 PM) Sad about Saunders... seems sudden, though I knew he had fought on and off with cancer.
@  jorgeaam : (25 October 2015 - 06:41 PM) RIP Flip Saunders, sad day for basketball
@  YaoMan : (23 October 2015 - 04:49 PM) Zach Lowe seems to think the Rox are the biggest threat to GSW: http://grantland.com...-16-nba-season/
@  cointurtlemoose : (23 October 2015 - 04:36 PM) Hey if yall want a good podcast to listen to, find the Dunc'd On Basketball Podcast on Itunes, Rahat just did a Rockets preview with the host.
@  majik19 : (13 October 2015 - 09:09 PM) Apparently we claimed Arsalan Kazemi off waivers from the Hawks today... yet another undersized (6'7") power forward for Morey's cupboard.
@  Mario Peña : (10 October 2015 - 01:12 PM) If your part if the Red94 Fantasy Basketball League check the thread to vote for the date and time for the draft event. Thanks y'all!
@  jorgeaam : (07 October 2015 - 08:47 PM) Guys we need 1 more owner for the Red94 fantasy league, if interested please comment on the post in the fantasy basketball thread
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 06:50 PM) Kobe ranked one spot higher than Ariza? Is this based on legacy or...??
@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 04:13 PM) It was hard to keep up with both the Astros and Rockets at the same time. Should be interesting on Thursday with the Texans and Astros on simultaneously.
@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Loving that, hope he hits 30 PPG this year
@  thejohnnygold : (06 October 2015 - 06:15 PM) Someone is feeling confident :) : LINK
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 05:54 PM) 10 Teams done, will need 2 more
@  Mario Peña : (06 October 2015 - 02:35 PM) Alright guys, if anyone is interested in joining the Red94 fantasy basketball league we could use one more player to get us to 10 teams (or three to get us to 12 teams). Just check the thread in the Fantasy Basketball forum. Thanks!
@  thejohnnygold : (05 October 2015 - 06:23 PM) I use leaguepass here in Austin with no problems...
@  skip 2 my lou : (05 October 2015 - 03:14 PM) Hey fellas, I'm a rocket fan but I live in the heart of Dallas. Does anybody know if I buy NBA Leaguepass if it's too close to be subject to blackouts?
@  Losthief : (02 October 2015 - 02:24 AM) tks jg
@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com

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Houston Rockets 105, Memphis Grizzlies 96: Outgrinding “Grit and Grind.”


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 04 December 2014 - 04:20 AM

    New post: Houston Rockets 105, Memphis Grizzlies 96: Outgrinding “Grit and Grind.”
    By: Paul McGuire

    I have never been much of a fan of Donatas Motiejunas.

     

    Motiejunas has shown flashes of potential throughout his career, but so does nearly every young player in the league. However, he has never had a truly reliable jump shot, his defense has been inconsistent if not outright bad, and he has seemed to lack the physical toughness to just hang around in the NBA. Even Motiejunas’s biggest asset, his post arsenal, is a tool of questionable value in a league where double teaming the post has become more prevalent over the past few seasons.

     

    Well, maybe Motiejunas is developing after all. Harden had one of his best games against this defensive Memphis team, and Jason Terry continues his rejuvenation flight this season. But it was Motiejunas and the rest of the Houston big men who did enough to blow this game open against one of the best teams in the league and end it by the third quarter.

     

    It was not just Motiejunas. Tarik Black recorded the first double-double of his career, and Joey Dorsey actually looked like he belonged in the NBA with his defense and two ferocious second quarter dunks. The Memphis Grizzlies did manage to shoot over 50 percent over the entire game, but Dorsey, Black, and Motiejunas just outworked Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol to get every rebound they could find. The Rockets finished the first quarter with more offensive rebounds than the Grizzlies had defensive boards! They also handedly won the turnover battle – while the Grizzlies finished with 20 turnovers compared to 19 for the Rockets, this was due to sloppy fourth quarter play by the garbage time unit. Marc Gasol, who has been praised so much for his passing on his MVP campaign this season, finished with 3 assists and 3 turnovers.

     

    But Motiejunas in particular was spectacular. He limited Zach Randolph in the first quarter and then even managed to guard the much bigger Gasol and Kosta Koufos when Houston went to its small-ball lineup with Papanikolau at the power forward slot and Motiejunas at center. The Rockets did help Motiejunas with the double team, but Motiejunas still managed to stay with the Memphis big men and keep them from taking over the game. He also continued his trend of staying out of foul trouble, a marked departure from how he seemed to be making early visits to the bench every other night in past seasons. On the offensive end, Motiejunas was Houston’s second option tonight. The Rockets guards actively looked to involve him in the post, and he finished with 15 points on 10 shots. He even had a Dreamshake on Koufos during the second quarter. Thanks to Houston’s incredible defense and the work of their big men, Jarnell Stokes, the 35th pick of this year’s draft, finished as Memphis’s second highest scorer with 12 points.

     

    There should be a word of caution amidst the celebration of Motiejunas’s stellar play over the past few games. He has had stints in the past where he appears to be making the leap into a NBA player, and Coach McHale has inserted Motiejunas into the starting lineup in the past. But after playing well for some time, Motiejunas always regressed and slid back to his old weaknesses. Past performances do not always predict future results, and Motiejunas just turned 24 a few months ago. But more time needs to pass before we know whether D-Mo has finally turned the corner.

     

    In other news, Clint Capela also recorded his NBA debut tonight, and showed both his potential as well as the fact that he is nowhere near ready to play in the NBA on a regular basis. Capela has long arms and the length to be a great shot-blocker and defensive player in a few years down the road, but his offensive instincts need serious work. Houston actively attempted to feed him down the stretch for some reason, and Capela missed all six of his shots, two free throws, and had two horrible turnovers where he tried to make passes with no room. Capela, Nick Johnson, and Troy Daniels came out and showed in garbage time that all three of them have a great deal of work to do until they can make a NBA rotation. Daniels probably had the most egregious mistake out of all three of them: with Memphis looming uncomfortably close during the final two minutes, Daniel took a three pointer with 20 seconds left on the clock, right when Houston needed to buy some time. It is good to have youth, but it’s far too easy to demand that they play before we see what these young players are truly made of.


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    #2 Losthief

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    Posted 04 December 2014 - 04:46 AM

    Capela played on november 6th in the san antonio blowout, so not his debut. But, yeah...he looked.....for lack of better term raw out there. I'm really liking what DMO is doing, his patience is the biggest difference I have noticed, he just seems more like he believes he should be out there and is just reacting instead of forcing the action all the time, especially on defense (less hedging/jumping out). Black has surprised me with his improvement on the offense end of the floor since he first started playing big minutes. Good game all around, I thought nick johnson looked fine when he was out there with the other starters/rotation players but when asked to create for others or do stuff off the dribble he doesn't have that yet, but man did he sky on that dunk attempt.


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    LoSTHieF

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    #3 NorEastern

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      Posted 04 December 2014 - 05:11 AM

      I do so disagree with your opinion of D-Mo. The guy is phenomenal on defense and one of the 10 best post players in the NBA. He has starting center and an eight figure contract in the summer of 2016 inscribed on his forehead. We will see if Houston can keep him. Oh, and Randolf and Gasol scored 16 points between them tonight. Do you believe that that was just luck? It was D-Mo again shutting the paint down.


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      #4 thenit

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        Posted 04 December 2014 - 06:09 AM

        I am in between. Dmo has shown that he can play good D since the 2nd half of last season and it has continued in all of the games this season. What has been frustrating is that he forced the issue on the offensive end and ended up hurrying his moves and making mistakes there. His box score hasn't always looked good and visually as well. But his D has been solid for a long time. He also tried to force it and picked up dumb fouls.

        This season he has been very good on D and his struggles showed on the offensive end. But since Jones injury he has slowly picked up the rhytm and I havent seen him play this well for about 10 games now on both ends. This is encouraging and maybe knowing that he won't get pulled relaxed him and not looking over his shoulder let him show his true talent. Also I think being the main man he gets more looks in the post whereas when he played next to dwight, they never really look for DMO despite IMO having better post moves than Dwight. Now he can get those looks and he did it today against a very good pair of interior D.

        The injuries may be a blessing for us, we may have not found out what DMO could do, same with Canaan since he never played when Bev was healthy ( terry backed Bev at PG ). We also get an extended look at our other bigs and Papa. Hopefully the guys injured can get back and we can try to gel and get a set rotation with our newfound wealth and have a long run in the playoffs.


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        #5 thejohnnygold

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        Posted 04 December 2014 - 02:21 PM

        I do so disagree with your opinion of D-Mo. The guy is phenomenal on defense and one of the 10 best post players in the NBA. He has starting center and an eight figure contract in the summer of 2016 inscribed on his forehead. We will see if Houston can keep him. Oh, and Randolf and Gasol scored 16 points between them tonight. Do you believe that that was just luck? It was D-Mo again shutting the paint down.

         

        100% agree with the above.  I was actually trying to count post players better than D-Mo last night...I didn't get far before deciding he was in that conversation for sure.  He is really good and actually fits into Mark Cuban's economic basketball model--market inefficiencies.  Centers these days are moving away from the classic model which I think makes D-Mo all the more effective.  Players who do not understand post moves themselves will struggle to defend them.  What's scary is I think D-Mo is probably only at about 70% of what he can do in the post.  Once he starts drawing regular double teams his passing is going to be lethal.  I think he can develop a 12-15 ft. turn around fade-away shot as well.  I think the Rockets have to find a way to keep him.

         

        I am in between. Dmo has shown that he can play good D since the 2nd half of last season and it has continued in all of the games this season. What has been frustrating is that he forced the issue on the offensive end and ended up hurrying his moves and making mistakes there. His box score hasn't always looked good and visually as well. But his D has been solid for a long time. He also tried to force it and picked up dumb fouls.

        This season he has been very good on D and his struggles showed on the offensive end. But since Jones injury he has slowly picked up the rhytm and I havent seen him play this well for about 10 games now on both ends. This is encouraging and maybe knowing that he won't get pulled relaxed him and not looking over his shoulder let him show his true talent. Also I think being the main man he gets more looks in the post whereas when he played next to dwight, they never really look for DMO despite IMO having better post moves than Dwight. Now he can get those looks and he did it today against a very good pair of interior D.

        The injuries may be a blessing for us, we may have not found out what DMO could do, same with Canaan since he never played when Bev was healthy ( terry backed Bev at PG ). We also get an extended look at our other bigs and Papa. Hopefully the guys injured can get back and we can try to gel and get a set rotation with our newfound wealth and have a long run in the playoffs.

         

        Ignoring the Lin-fan-like excuses (sorry, but they are), I think you hit the nail on the head (as has been noted many times before) that D-Mo and Dwight struggle to co-exist.  D-Mo is so much less effective playing on the perimeter--it's night and day.  With a little luck, Dwight will have an epiphany and realize that the path to a championship is through D-Mo's post game with himself playing off the ball and beasting in a DeAndre Jordan role.  If Black and Dorsey can excel in that role (and the Rockets' team along with them) imagine Dwight doing it.  Consider how much more energy he would have if he didn't exert so much trying to post up and used that for hustle and energy plays....intriguing, no?

         

        I understand the trepidation many have towards D-Mo, but I think it may be time to let it go.  He is going to have a bad game (likely sooner than later), but I think overall he has overcome most of the things that held him back before.  If McHale relegates him back to spot up shooter once everyone is back I am driving to Houston, buying a ticket for the seat right behind McHale on the bench, and we're going to have a "talk".   :lol:

         

        Speaking of McHale, I saw someone ask (half-joking) if McHale should be up for coach of the year thus far....and I thought to myself, yes, yes he should!  Given the situation, has anyone done a better job in leading their team to a 14-4 record?  I'm going to laugh so hard if he does snag a COY award because the anti-McHale peoples' heads will explode.  :lol:

         

        screenshot15813.jpg

         

        ...and this will be me....

         

        Ez-jack-burton-patriot.jpg


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        #6 txtdo1411

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        Posted 04 December 2014 - 06:04 PM

        Count me as a supporter for the McHale as COY award. Really what our team has done with all the odds stacked against us has been inspiring. I can't believe we have gotten such little love nationally for what we are doing down 3 starters and Canaan. I mean there is no team in the league that can say they can beat the Mavs, Grizzlies, Bucks, or Kings with 60% of the starting line-up out. Our depth has proven to be much better than anyone could have ever expected. There is such a different feel to this years team compared to last years. Everyone has bought in to the system, and it is producing wins even with half the talent. 

         

        As for D-Mo, I am ready to proclaim him as a top 10 offensive post player, and possibly top 10 defensive as well. He has been an absolute stud against dominant front courts in the last 5 games. For playing 4s and 5s his defense has been superb. We are able to run a high-low game with him in the post, and his scoring efficiency has been off the charts. I agree with JG that it is a night and day difference when you ask D-Mo to stay on the perimeter vs. playing on the block. He is by far our best post scoring threat. I can't wait to see how he reacts to double teams. If he continues at this pace, no team in the league is going to leave him 1 on 1 in the post. This is where we will get to see the next development of his game, passing out of the double team. He is a good passer, so I expect him to shred defenses when they do double him, but there also could be an adjustment period needed to figure it out. Either way it has been an absolute joy watching D-Mo  mature this season, and show the fans why the organization has spent the last 2+ years developing him. He is truly a special player. 

         

        Edit: I just want to clear any confusion on the last line of the first paragraph. I do not mean this team, when healthy, has half the talent compared to last years roster. I am saying the line-ups we are currently rolling out there due to injuries have half the talent compared to last years team. 


        Edited by txtdo1411, 04 December 2014 - 06:07 PM.

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        #7 NorEastern

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          Posted 04 December 2014 - 11:48 PM

          There is one individual who has performed like an all star who has remained unnamed to far. Morey. Everyone (including me) expected this Rockets team to not be as good as last years team because we lost Lin, Parsons and Asik. But that certainly has not been the case. Morey's talent evaluation has come through again. Papa, Ariza, Canaan and Terry have just brought it this season. Who could have known? The most remarkable thing IMHO is that D-Mo, Jones, Canaan and Bev will hold down the PF and PG and backup center positions for approximately $5M this season. There is no team in the NBA that can come close to that level of cost effectiveness unless you believe that Davis contributes more. Which may be possible.


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          #8 Steven

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            Posted 05 December 2014 - 02:22 AM

            There is one individual who has performed like an all star who has remained unnamed to far. Morey. Everyone (including me) expected this Rockets team to not be as good as last years team because we lost Lin, Parsons and Asik. But that certainly has not been the case. Morey's talent evaluation has come through again. Papa, Ariza, Canaan and Terry have just brought it this season. Who could have known? The most remarkable thing IMHO is that D-Mo, Jones, Canaan and Bev will hold down the PF and PG and backup center positions for approximately $5M this season. There is no team in the NBA that can come close to that level of cost effectiveness unless you believe that Davis contributes more. Which may be possible.

            Don't count me as one who thought they would be worst, I'm under oath saying that the Rockets would win 60 games, tied atop the WC with the Clippers in record. I knew the PG position would be better then last year, and it was before injuries. Ariza fit this team better then the Buffalo Jeans model, and how many games did Asik even play last season? Playoff time is all that matters. And this stretch of playing time for D-Mo, will only benefit the Rockets once the rotations shrink come playoffs. They can go to a three big man rotation, with Captian Caveman playing some stretch 4. Assuming the Rockets get healthy I'm ready for May and June already.

            Edited by Steven, 05 December 2014 - 02:22 AM.

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            #9 Jatman20

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              Posted 05 December 2014 - 02:23 AM

              #5 On contention: post #5 Jatman20
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              Posted 12 August 2014 - 05:00 PM
              I agree with you Buckko on Dallas....they have a big flaw at two starting spots (C and PG). Knicks couldn't get Felton out of town quick enough; and that's not because of the gun/weapons charge. It's because they refer to him as "fat Felton". Tyson is rarely healthy. Maverick backups are suspect at best. Richard Jefferson, Aminu, and Jameer Nelson are God-aweful. Jameer Nelson reportedly told a player not to play defense on him while they past mid-court in a game two years ago I believe. I can't remember who the player was......was it Beverley or Lillaird?

              Rocket core is still Good. 1) Working out the kinks with the pairing of D12 with the group last year took much of the early months of last season. Experimenting with Asik/D12 in the starting lineup slowed the process. 2) Ariza will have the same role with us that he had with Washington so the transition shouldn't be that extreme. 3) Defense will be the theme this year (defense travels-road games) with D12/TJ/Beverley more comfortable in the system and addition of Ariza with Harden (team USA report Harden is a good defender) taking offense to criticism of his "D" last year; will focus on keeping track of his man!!!! Saw Harden play "King of the Hill" vs Durant and Paul George. I was impressed. Harden DRtg of 107 is good in iso defense and vs post-up. It's ball watching and losing his man that kills his rep.....and some PnR "D". This year that changes.
              Last year all points per game averaged together:D12/Harden/Parsons/TJ/Bev/Lin=95.1 pts/game. This year I project D12 (20)/Harden(25.5)/Ariza (16)/ TJ (16)/ Bev (13)/DMo (8)=98.5......Papanikolaou will get his (7-8 p at least) Nick Johnson will play ave to slightly better than ave "D" and get his 7-8 p Canaan will get his 9 p. Depending on rotation/mins.....anything from Troy/Covington/Dorsey/Capela/Ish/Adrien will be a plus.
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              Currently (12-04-14)
              D12 (18.8 pts)/Harden (25 Pts)/Ariza (13.7 pts)/TJ (14.0 pts)/Bev (12.6 pts)/DMo (8.6 pts)=92.7.......Papanikolaou (6.4 pts)/Canaan (8.9 pts)/Nick
              (2.3 pts in 7 mins/game). Before the season is up I feel D12 will get up to 20/game while Ariza and TJ will get that bucket more per game.
              Nick Johnson may not get his 7-8 pts per game; but Jason Terry has picked up the slack with 8.1 per game. Can't wait until the starters come back.
              KUDOS to both Morey and McHale!!!!
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              #10 Jatman20

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                Posted 05 December 2014 - 02:28 AM

                And the guy J Nelson told to back off defensively was Avery Bradley.
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                #11 thejohnnygold

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                Posted 05 December 2014 - 05:31 PM

                There is one individual who has performed like an all star who has remained unnamed to far. Morey. Everyone (including me) expected this Rockets team to not be as good as last years team because we lost Lin, Parsons and Asik. But that certainly has not been the case. Morey's talent evaluation has come through again. Papa, Ariza, Canaan and Terry have just brought it this season. Who could have known? The most remarkable thing IMHO is that D-Mo, Jones, Canaan and Bev will hold down the PF and PG and backup center positions for approximately $5M this season. There is no team in the NBA that can come close to that level of cost effectiveness unless you believe that Davis contributes more. Which may be possible.

                 

                I also whole-heartedly disagree with your contention that "everyone" felt the way you did.  Pretty sure I, and a few others, were banging that drum most of the Summer.  I'm also pretty sure I have sprinkled some kudos onto Morey's already shining altar....perhaps you didn't catch that as I have learned over time that many skim my posts (meaning don't actually read them) due to being "too long".

                 

                I do agree that the $5M price tag which covers those players is absurdly good (is it sustainable or is it cyclical?  This is my concern.)

                 

                I've been discussing with another fan who wants to trade D-Mo, Terry, and the Pellies pick for Dragic.  I disagree with this trade for a multitude of reasons.  Without hashing out all of it (and making a post that won't get read  :P ) my main point is reflected in your observation of our cap use.

                 

                PG's can be found on the cheap--especially the kinds of PG's that will thrive playing next to James Harden.  Without Harden, this conversation would be different, but we do have him so I find that to be pretty relevant.

                 

                7 footers who can shoot from deep (even if it has been poorly so far....since he has started getting minutes, or the past 7 games, he is 4-10 from deep), are skilled passers, can dribble, have high level post games from either side of the basket, and can defend the rim in an ever-increasing-Omer-Asik fashion are so very, very rare.

                 

                There are a handful of guys in the league who fit that description and they are all studs: The Gasols, Joakim Noah, Tim Duncan, Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge (not sure about his passing acumen), and maybe one or two others I'm forgetting.  Really, only Aldridge and Bosh qualify for the 3 pt. shooting.  Overall, it's a short list and I am putting D-Mo on it.  Consistency (our only real question mark at this point) will determine if he stays on it.  But stop and consider if he does.....stop and consider that in 1-2 years D-Mo might be the best center on this roster...that's a real possibility and the only thing standing between us and that reality is consistency.

                 

                Consistency will come with time and experience.  Remember, minutes-wise D-Mo has played roughly 1 season's worth of NBA basketball.  In terms of experience he is but a sophomore in this league.

                 

                Go check out his splits at bball-reference.com.  Scroll down to the minutes break down.  When D-Mo plays 30+ minutes his numbers are very, very good and then notice his usage rate is a relatively low 17%.  If we spoon fed D-Mo more possessions and upped that number to around 25% (which, given his efficiency and play-making, seems rational enough to me) I think his numbers could be in the 20 pts, 10 reb, 4 assist range.

                 

                Go look at LaMarcus Aldridge's numbers and compare (looking at his early years)....and then consider again, should we trade D-Mo?

                 

                The point is, trading a guy like that for a good, but not great PG, is a bad deal.  Factor in his age and likely upward development over the next 3-4 years before plateauing and I think Morey would be crazy to leverage "Donuts" (meaning D-Mo) for donuts (meaning PG's which are a dime a dozen).

                 

                .....and despite trying to be concise this post is long.... :(

                 

                too_many_words.gif


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                #12 clydesmoustache

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                  Posted 05 December 2014 - 09:52 PM

                  I also whole-heartedly disagree with you contention that "everyone" felt the way you did. Pretty sure i, and a few others, were banging that drum most of the Summer. I'm also pretty sure I have sprinkled some kudos onto Morey's already shining altar....perhaps you didn't catch that as I have learned over time that many skim my posts (meaning don't actually read them) due to being "too long".

                  I do agree that the $5M price tag which covers those players is absurdly good (is it sustainable or is it cyclical? This is my concern.)

                  I've been discussing with another fan who wants to trade D-Mo, Terry, and the Pellies pick for Dragic. I disagree with this trade for a multitude of reasons. Without hashing out all of it (and making a post that won't get read :P ) my main point is reflected in your observation of our cap use.

                  PG's can be found on the cheap--especially the kinds of PG's that will thrive playing next to James Harden. Without Harden, this conversation would be different, but we do have him so I find that to be pretty relevant.

                  7 footers who can shoot from deep (even if it has been poorly so far....since he has started getting minutes, or the past 7 games, he is 4-10 from deep), are skilled passers, can dribble, have high level post games from either side of the basket, and can defend the rim in an ever-increasing-Omer-Asik fashion are so very, very rare.

                  There are a handful of guys in the league who fit that description and they are all studs: The Gasols, Joakim Noah, Tim Duncan, Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge (not sure about his passing acumen), and maybe one or two others I'm forgetting. Really, only Aldridge and Bosh qualify for the 3 pt. shooting. Overall, it's a short list and I am putting D-Mo on it. Consistency (our only real question mark at this point) will determine if he stays on it. But stop and consider if he does.....stop and consider that in 1-2 years D-Mo might be the best center on this roster...that's a real possibility and the only thing standing between us and that reality is consistency.

                  Consistency will come with time and experience. Remember, minutes-wise D-Mo has played roughly 1 season's worth of NBA basketball. In terms of experience he is but a sophomore in this league.

                  Go check out his splits at bball-reference.com. Scroll down to the minutes break down. When D-Mo plays 30+ minutes his numbers are very, very good and then notice his usage rate is a relatively low 17%. If we spoon fed D-Mo more possessions and upped that number to around 25% (which, given his efficiency and play-making, seems rational enough to me) I think his numbers could be in the 20 pts, 10 reb, 4 assist range.

                  Go look at LaMarcus Aldridge's numbers and compare (looking at his early years)....and then consider again, should we trade D-Mo?

                  The point is, trading a guy like that for a good, but not great PG, is a bad deal. Factor in his age and likely upward development over the next 3-4 years before plateauing and I think Morey would be crazy to leverage "Donuts" (meaning D-Mo) for donuts (meaning PG's which are a dime a dozen).

                  .....and despite trying to be concise this post is long.... :(

                  too_many_words.gif


                  JG Please don't change your writing style. It is highly entertaining. Even when I don't agree.
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                  #13 Jatman20

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                    Posted 05 December 2014 - 10:22 PM

                    True......who is involved in a trade? Dragic (Goran not Zoran)? Milsap? Rondo? Lance S (Hornets)? As we get closer to Dec 15th or the trading deadline, we will discuss it in greater detail......I have never been a fan of D-Mo in his first two seasons; but I see the work that "The Dream" has put in with D-Mo or vice-versa. I now have more faith in D-Mo posting up than D12. Would I trade D-Mo? Depends on the situation? Matching salaries on quality players isn't easy. One article I read yesterday has the Rockets going after Milsap; but almost have to acquire a player now using the Lin exception and then wait two months and turn that player for Milsaps $9 mil. Harden/Howard/Ariza are the only untouchables to me.
                    Except for the Adrien & Ish guaranteed contracts.....in Morey I trust!!
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                    #14 thejohnnygold

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                    Posted 05 December 2014 - 11:31 PM

                    True......who is involved in a trade? Dragic (Goran not Zoran)? Milsap? Rondo? Lance S (Hornets)? As we get closer to Dec 15th or the trading deadline, we will discuss it in greater detail......I have never been a fan of D-Mo in his first two seasons; but I see the work that "The Dream" has put in with D-Mo or vice-versa. I now have more faith in D-Mo posting up than D12. Would I trade D-Mo? Depends on the situation? Matching salaries on quality players isn't easy. One article I read yesterday has the Rockets going after Milsap; but almost have to acquire a player now using the Lin exception and then wait two months and turn that player for Milsaps $9 mil. Harden/Howard/Ariza are the only untouchables to me.
                    Except for the Adrien & Ish guaranteed contracts.....in Morey I trust!!

                     

                    A couple of thoughts....

                     

                    First, on the question of "would I trade D-Mo?"...well, of course.  However, the people I would trade him for are not on the trade block as far as I know.  I seriously doubt Atlanta has Millsap or Horford for sale.  They are in 3rd place with an 11-6 record.  Plus, they are on the Spurs plan.  Danny Ferry and Mike Budenholzer both fell off the Popovich tree.  I expect them to behave in the same way the Spurs do--which means they are not likely to trade either of those guys.

                     

                    Besides, would I rather have Millsap or D-Mo heading forward?  I have to say D-Mo.  Horford?  It's a toss-up.  I think we would get more long-term benefit from D-Mo...plus it might be that Horford is damaged goods.  He has missed the majority of 2 of the last 3 seasons and now his minutes are reduced....is that our third star?  28 year old, injury-riddled Al Horford?

                     

                    Rondo is falling out of favor with me--I haven't watched him play hardly at all, but his numbers are atrocious (outside of the assists).  No way Morey thinks about Stephenson beyond thinking, "yeah....when pigs fly...".  Dragic is nice, but what's the opportunity cost (D-MO? plus other stuff) to get a guy who will be marginalized in our system, might leave after this season (especially if he is looking to be a #1 guy), and plays a position that is at high supply at the moment?  

                     

                    As for the Adrien and Smith contracts--that's a special deal Morey has with Les Alexander (our owner).  Les has agreed to spend a few extra million in player contracts every year (so it seems) in order for Morey to bring in a few extra players, increase competition during camp, and, ultimately, increase the strength of our roster.  All in all, it's a small investment in the grand scheme of things if it helps us attain our goal of winning it all.

                     

                    Plus, the players seem to like the opportunity (and guaranteed money).  I have yet to hear a player bad mouth Houston's management nor their coaches publicly.  Lowry doesn't count as he has openly come out and admitted that was his own immaturity.


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                    #15 Jatman20

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                      Posted 06 December 2014 - 12:40 AM

                      I didn't say I was in favor or against any of the players I mentioned. In the article I read 5 were mentioned: Corey Brewer, Rondo, Greg Monroe, Dragic and Millsap. Without going into deep discussion about it: Brewer, Monroe, Dragic, Millsap....I like depending on deal. Rondo....NO!

                      Anything can happen with the Hawks record for one reason or another. I like Antic at backup center for us. I see your logic of home growing our prospects (it's hard for GMs to give up on 7 footers); but you and I will agree to disagree on contending now over teaching our future prospects. You love D-Mo's 3 point shooting 26% this year and 27% for his career. Anything under 30% sucks. D12 shot 28% from 3 last year....I dont want him shooting 3's for us either.

                      *side note.......26% is 26% anyway you slice it. I don't care if it's a ton of 3's like Josh Smith or 3-4 like D12.

                      Edited by Jatman20, 06 December 2014 - 12:45 AM.

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                      #16 thejohnnygold

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                      Posted 06 December 2014 - 05:38 AM

                      I didn't say I was in favor or against any of the players I mentioned. In the article I read 5 were mentioned: Corey Brewer, Rondo, Greg Monroe, Dragic and Millsap. Without going into deep discussion about it: Brewer, Monroe, Dragic, Millsap....I like depending on deal. Rondo....NO!

                      Anything can happen with the Hawks record for one reason or another. I like Antic at backup center for us. I see your logic of home growing our prospects (it's hard for GMs to give up on 7 footers); but you and I will agree to disagree on contending now over teaching our future prospects. You love D-Mo's 3 point shooting 26% this year and 27% for his career. Anything under 30% sucks. D12 shot 28% from 3 last year....I dont want him shooting 3's for us either.

                      *side note.......26% is 26% anyway you slice it. I don't care if it's a ton of 3's like Josh Smith or 3-4 like D12.

                       

                      Wow...getting a little assertive with the three point percentage.  Pretty sure I wasn't "loving" it, but I guess you can interpret it as you like.

                       

                      As I have made clear in other posts, D-Mo has shot 40% in the last 8 games (the games that he has played legit minutes and been an integral part of the offense).

                       

                      I am more than aware of his overall 3pt%.  When D-Mo is relegated to camping on the perimeter as a spot up shooter yeah, he sucks....because he is not a spot up shooter.  When he gets into the flow of the game and plays inside-out he is far better.  You seem to live by the numbers....and those are the numbers.

                       

                      D-Mo has good form and I have every reason to believe that as he progresses his 3 pt shooting will become consistent and will likely fall near the league average.  But hey, feel free to poo-poo on him for now.  His numbers are what they are.  The Hawks aren't handing over Antic anymore than we are handing over D-Mo.  Why?  Because they understand the value of skilled 7 footers.  The reality is D-Mo is better than Antic.  (Since we are using numbers, Antic is a spry 32 years old and is shooting.....28% from three this season.  Seems like a good acquisition  :unsure: )

                       

                      My contention is that we are contending now....with D-Mo.  Moreover, he can be an integral part of our success for the next 10+ years versus trading him for a player in their twilight while simultaneously crippling our cap space.

                       

                      By the way, Dwight was 2-7 from 3 last season (the 28.6% you cited), but one of those was a half-court heave (it might have been 2, but I'm not positive on that).  That means he was at worst 2-6 in reality which is 33.3% (might have been 2-5 for 40%--according to vorped.com it was.).  He was definitely 2-4 from the corners.  Not bad for a guy who can't shoot free throws.  That being said, I don't want him jacking threes either...because he is not a spot-up shooter.

                       

                      If we trade D-Mo for anything less than a bona fide star (which isn't happening) it will be worse than the Larry Anderson trade for Jeff Bagwell.   :o  That's hyperbole, of course.  D-Mo isn't going to be league MVP, but he is going to be very good.  Take that to the bank.

                       

                      Daryl Morey is going to go down in history as a GM with one of the best eyes for talent ever.  D-Mo will be a feather in his cap.  Bank on that too.  


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                      #17 Jatman20

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                        Posted 07 December 2014 - 02:39 AM

                        Antic is a 31% 3 point shooter for career and you are assuming I'm trading DMo for Antic straight up. I was thinking more in the lines of package deals of Millsap/Antic for say DMo/Beverley/Troy and choice of Black or Dorsey. I'm not going to be drawn into playing GM with you just yet. That debate will come. Cash and or Pels draft pick or foreign player rights may sweeten the deal. I'm not saying the Hawks will deal; but I like:

                        Starters.....C) D12/ PF) Millsap SF) Ariza SG) Harden PG) Canaan (per 82 games.com #'s show effectiveness of defense greater with Canaan)

                        Second team...C) Antic PF) T Jones SF) Papanikolaou SG) Corey Brewer (obtained for draft pick/Lin exception) PG) Jason Terry.

                        Black or Dorsey and Nick Johnson deep off the bench. I know many like DMo.....but know one beats us with these additions. I like the thought of Ariza and Brewer and Harden running fast breaks and playing Defense. Sometimes you have to break some eggs to make an omelet.

                        *Side note.....Antic is averaging 17 mins/ game this year while DMo is averaging 26 mins/game. Consistency goes both ways.

                        Edited by Jatman20, 07 December 2014 - 02:48 AM.

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                        #18 Jatman20

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                          Posted 07 December 2014 - 03:08 AM

                          It's possible Antic would excel in the Rocket system.....what would his numbers be on our team averaging 26 mins/game as opposed to his 17 mins/game. My point is; will DMo get his touches when D12 and T Jones come back. The Hawks have 3 point guards listed; but could trade Mack by the trading deadline.......they have 5 PF' listed. That's crazy! I'm hoping they like DMo as much as you do! Im sure DMo would do great in Atl....but I would go experience over inexperience at this junction. If you read my post last year on trading Asik......I pushed for Bass or Jeff Green because I knew Terrence could not handle the PF's of the Western Conference. LMA then proceeded to school both TJ and DMo.

                          Monroe would be a nice pick up as well. I love Bev's game....but he is now expendable. Sorry to say.

                          Edited by Jatman20, 07 December 2014 - 03:10 AM.

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                          #19 Jatman20

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                            Posted 07 December 2014 - 03:58 AM


                            This Trade is Successful!
                            New Trade
                            Houston Rockets
                            Over Tax Line
                            -$9,081,580
                            Cap Room
                            -$4,175,752
                            PlayerSalary PER

                            Paul Millsap$9,500,000 20.1
                            PF 1 Year

                            Pero Antic$1,250,000 8.2
                            PF 1 Year
                            Acquiring 2 Players
                            $10,750,000
                            Hollinger's Analysis: +3 Wins
                            With this trade you have increased this team's projected wins by 3.
                            Atlanta Hawks
                            Over Tax Line
                            -$16,790,956
                            Cap Room
                            $3,026,956
                            PlayerSalary PER

                            K. Papanikolaou$4,797,664 9.9
                            SF 2 Years

                            D. Motiejunas$1,483,920 11.9
                            PF 2 Years

                            Clint Capela$1,189,200 N/A
                            C 4 Years

                            P. Beverley$915,243 15.9
                            PG 1 Year
                            Acquiring 4 Players
                            $8,386,027
                            Hollinger's Analysis: -6 Wins
                            With this trade you have decreased this team's projected wins by 6.
                            Projected Record Note:
                            Projected records are based on the PER of the players in each team’s post-trade rotation. Taking into account the players traded and the ability of their replacements, it is possible for each team in a trade to have a better projected record, or for each team to have a worse one, or for one team to be better and another to be worse by a different number of games.

                            Just having fun with the trade machine....but this trade works for everyone......esp if we obtain Brewer. Pels pick would also have to be added.
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                            #20 redfaithful

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                            Posted 07 December 2014 - 09:49 AM

                            The coaching staff earned enough credit so far this season for us to assume they can find ways to effectively put DH and DMo on the floor together. A 3-4-5 rotation of Ariza-Papa-Jones-DMo-DH seems to me like a very good place to start a playoff series.


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