23 replies to this topic

[Mason Khamvilay]

If you look throughout history, it appears that the majority of starting point guards on championship teams have been good defenders, and big/strong enough to handle switches reasonably well: Derek Fisher (5 rings), Ron Harper (5 rings), Mario Elie (3 rings), Isiah Thomas (2 rings), Rajon Rondo, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups ect. Perhaps the worst defender at point-guard to win multiple rings has been Tony Parker, but it's not like Tony is Kyrie-esque on the defensive end. Tony's old scouting reports and dRAPM suggest that Tony is far from the defensive sieve some make him out to be. With all that being said, perhaps we should be leaning towards a defensive point-guard to fill the void Jeremy Lin left. Nick Johnson perhaps? Or Ish Smith who can not only defend but also facilitate well? 

 

That's one way to look at it. Another thought that has crossed my mind is that it's a lot harder to play defense once the team has approached the foul limit, so perhaps defense shouldn't be the emphasis when considering our back-up point guard. Perhaps we should be looking for more of an offensive spark, someone like Isaiah Canaan who I would argue is a stronger Aaron Brooks, possessing the same fearless ability to create his own shot. 

 

Vote and discuss. 

Edited by 2016Champions, 18 October 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[Steven]

Canaan Truthers UNITE!!

[Buckko]

Count me in.

[Losthief]

this year or long term? cause i have different answers depending on that.

 

Assuming no trade:

 

short term Canaan

 

long term Johnson (but IF he gets there, he's still 2-3 yrs away).

Edited by Losthief, 18 October 2014 - 11:35 PM.

[rockets best fan]

@Lostheif

I agree ............Canaan should be given first shot at the job. Nick should see time later in the season, but the others are pure insurance in my view and should only see time if those in front of them fail to produce.

[cointurtlemoose]

Did Johnson play 2 guard at Arizona?

 

I love Johnson's athleticism and occasional explosiveness. He's also made some pretty heads up plays this preseason.

 

Canaan is more ready now though.

 

Wish Terry didn't have to take playing time away from those two...

[Losthief]

yeah he was a sg in college, tj mcconnell (sp?) was the pg at arizona.

[rockets best fan]

@cointurtlemoose

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

Nick played both guard positions, but I don't think he is ready for NBA PG duty yet. I like what I see, but that is a very small sample size. Terry is trade bait to me, unless he transforms into the Terry of a few years ago. at some point the Rockets are going to make a play to upgrade this team. any good play from Terry only increases his value in such a trade in addition to his expiring contract of 5.7 mil. Canaan is inexperienced and will make mistakes. but I believe if given time he will fill that void for the time being. I do believe we need an upgrade at PG. without getting into all the reasons why I believe that is much more important than PF right now. I know many don't share that view, but I think if we continue to groom T-Jones, D-Mo and Capella they will fill the void there. I really like Beverly and what he brings to the table, but A better facilitator will use the talent we have more efficiently IMO. we have already debated this in another thread. but PG is a higher priority than PF to me

[Mason Khamvilay]

I'm surprised at how little love Ish Smith is getting. Out of 14 votes I would expect him to get at least 1 considering how consistent he has been. Isaiah Canaan has had brighter moments but he has also been a non-factor for stretches. I read a quote from McHale recently which was meant as a praise towards Asik but could also be seen as a knock on players like Isaiah Canaan: "A lot of guys in this league need the ball. Without the ball they're not worth the gum on your shoe." Canaan is a negative on defense, and he has been surprisingly bad at passing out of double teams in Summer League, without the ball he's nothing more than a spot up shooter. If we are using SL to determine who will be the 2nd string point guard, I think Ish Smith is the leading candidate. I also think Ish works well with Donatas and Troy when it comes to getting them looks. Just a thought.

Edited by 2016Champions, 19 October 2014 - 08:02 PM.

[Willk]

James Harden is going to play about 35 minutes a night. Bev is going to play about 32. That means there will only be 29 minutes left for a backup guard. If you are asking for a combo guard then the answer is Troy Daniels. Troy can sub in for Harden and play with Bev or Troy can sub in for Bev. Harden then would play the PG position. I would rather have Daniels playing those back-up minutes rather than any of the players listed in the poll.

[Buckko]

2016 champions, the offense has  been anemic every time Ish is on the court and cannan has been having a superior assist/turnover ratio in preseason to boot. As you say "Canaan is a negative on defense" is wrong as I've seen him to have made improvements from SL against better competition in preseason to the point of being a passable defender (Ish is a terrible defender, but you don't mention that).

 

"I also think Ish works well with Donatas and Troy when it comes to getting them looks." This also not true as it was the combination of Daniels and Cannan obliterating the 4th quarter to win us that preseason game. Daniels spent an entire year next to Cannan and probably has the best chemistry with him than anyone else on the rockets. While Dmo and cannan were killing it with the 2 man game to take them to the SL finals. Overall the floor stretching of a trio of ish, Dmo, Black/dorsey would be terrible. While replacing Ish with cannan along with daniels and pap would be manageable. 

 

I'm also curious where did you get the year 2016 as for us to win the championship? Because a surefire bet would've been 2017 after we get KD in the 2016 offseason.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I thought of the name 2016 Champions back in 2013 purely based on my faith in Daryl Morey. So far so good.

I like Ish Smith's effort on the defensive end but you're right, his defensive impact is questionable.

[rockets best fan]

@Willk

I agree Troy should get any SG minutes first. However I still think Canaan should be backup PG. depending on opponent will probably determine who is first off the bench 

[marbony81110]

My knock on Ish Smith is that he can't shoot and is not a true scoring threat because of that. He is quick and can't get to the paint, but how easiest is it to guard someone who isn't a shooting threat? No that hard. I like Canaan because he can do it all and should grow into a better player as he gets more minutes earning valuable experience. The guy I really want to see more is Daniels. He can shoot and drive, but I'm not sure he can create for others that was Ish and Canaan can. Then again, I'm not sure how much of a problem that is when he can shoot the way he can. Johnson needs sometime to develop a lot more. Terry could be X-factor if he can show at least 75% of his former self. I, however, am not counting on that. So heres to Canaan and Daniels.

[marbony81110]

I'm surprised at how little love Ish Smith is getting. Out of 14 votes I would expect him to get at least 1 considering how consistent he has been. Isaiah Canaan has had brighter moments but he has also been a non-factor for stretches. I read a quote from McHale recently which was meant as a praise towards Asik but could also be seen as a knock on players like Isaiah Canaan: "A lot of guys in this league need the ball. Without the ball they're not worth the gum on your shoe." Canaan is a negative on defense, and he has been surprisingly bad at passing out of double teams in Summer League, without the ball he's nothing more than a spot up shooter. If we are using SL to determine who will be the 2nd string point guard, I think Ish Smith is the leading candidate. I also think Ish works well with Donatas and Troy when it comes to getting them looks. Just a thought.

@2016Champions

I think Ish might be better at the start, but I think Canaan will work out better than Ish with more minutes. Ish has experiene while Canaan is still basically a rookie. He has some experience, but it is very limited. I can't put my faith in someone that can't shoot, especially a guard. There are a few exceptions, however Ish is not one. Canaan being a spot up shooter isn't a bad thing if there is someone else that can give him that open shot. I like what I have seen from Kostas. The guy can ball. He is crafty, has a good feel for the game, and has shown he can create for himself and his teammates. As it currently stands I have to agree with your point about Ish working well with D-Mo and Daniels. I believe Canaan can do the same with more experience through more minutes per game. You have to develop him at some point, right?

[Losthief]

My knock on Ish Smith is that he can't shoot and is not a true scoring threat because of that. He is quick and can't get to the paint, but how easiest is it to guard someone who isn't a shooting threat? No that hard. I like Canaan because he can do it all and should grow into a better player as he gets more minutes earning valuable experience. The guy I really want to see more is Daniels. He can shoot and drive, but I'm not sure he can create for others that was Ish and Canaan can. Then again, I'm not sure how much of a problem that is when he can shoot the way he can. Johnson needs sometime to develop a lot more. Terry could be X-factor if he can show at least 75% of his former self. I, however, am not counting on that. So heres to Canaan and Daniels.

 

valid point, i don't have the link right here, but goldsberry (i think) did a report on kyle korvers effect on creating shots/mismatches just by running around without the ball, i think thats troy daniels ceiling/end game, kyle korver for the houston rockets, which for back up sg is deadly.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I was checking out ESPNs dRPM and noticed Ish Smith in the top 10. Just like RAPM there is a margin of error, but that margin of error is not large enough for a bad defender to rank top 10 imo. I think my first impressions were correct, Ish Smith is actually a good defender despite his lack of size, his defensive effort is very good and he maneuvers around screens reasonably well.

[Cooper]

He plays hard but I just don't see enough to justify a roster spot. 

[thejohnnygold]

I was checking out ESPNs dRPM and noticed Ish Smith in the top 10. Just like RAPM there is a margin of error, but that margin of error is not large enough for a bad defender to rank top 10 imo. I think my first impressions were correct, Ish Smith is actually a good defender despite his lack of size, his defensive effort is very good and he maneuvers around screens reasonably well.

 

Yay, it's RAPM and dRAPM time!  OK, let's begin.  First, here is the link to the page cited: LINK

 

Notice anything unique?  I notice that Ish, unlike the other people he is sharing that top 10 with, only played 14 minutes per game and almost entirely against back-ups and in garbage time.  In fact, according to basketball-reference.com, he only started 1 game and his Drtng jumped from 108 to 117 (neither of which are good).  Phoenix was an average, yet slightly under-rated, defensive team last season overall and played at a high pace.

 

Where I'd say Ish is most horrific defensively is having the ball on offense where he often is quite good at helping start fast breaks....going the other direction.

 

Ish puts in the effort and has the speed and athleticism (didn't he make a very good block in our first game?) to be a good defender; however, he gambles, gets lost, and lacks the fundamentals to warrant that bogus dRAPM score.  That is why NBA.com has filters--to weed out the scores that shouldn't be there.

 

It's all moot.  The moment he blew the in-bounds play against Miami late in the game I pretty much scratched him from the roster.  Coach gave him a chance to run the team and he ran it into the ground.  (For those watching, did you see the look on McHale's face after that play?)  Ish is a PG without a PG's mind.  Good luck Ish.  I wish you luck playing ball....anywhere but here.

[rocketrick]

For anyone keeping count, I had already stated that Ish would NOT make the Rockets roster this season several weeks ago.

Perhaps Ish will miraculously find an accurate outside shot in the next week and earn a spot on the final roster.

When the ball is in Ish's hands, things have the tendency of getting quite exciting from time to time although smart defenses know what to do next.