306 replies to this topic

[Steven]

Trade Asik and Lin to anybody plus a first, sign LeBron. My offseason is done.

[Matt Maloney's Ghost]

To be honest, the only thing I see is Morey going after someone like Gortat (free agent), a sign and trade deal. He'll make the calls for Melo and Love, but I don't see anything happening.

 

You have to hope for growth from Harden to Parsons.

 

Our only trade piece is Asik and TJones and DMo.

 

Trading Lin will be impossible. Nobody wants that guy unless we give up TJones or Parsons. I'm not a Lin hater, he is a solid player and I really liked on how he responded after Game 4 but 15 MIL ( 8 MIL against the Cap), that's a tough pill to swallow. 

[thejohnnygold]

To be honest, the only thing I see is Morey going after someone like Gortat (free agent), a sign and trade deal. He'll make the calls for Melo and Love, but I don't see anything happening.

 

You have to hope for growth from Harden to Parsons.

 

Our only trade piece is Asik and TJones and DMo.

 

Trading Lin will be impossible. Nobody wants that guy unless we give up TJones or Parsons. I'm not a Lin hater, he is a solid player and I really liked on how he responded after Game 4 but 15 MIL ( 8 MIL against the Cap), that's a tough pill to swallow. 

 

I'm not sure about Gortat.  I like him and I know Morey had shown interest in the past, but at this point we would wind up with another disgruntled back-up center making too much money.  I don't think that's very likely.

 

I don't think Love is an option unless Morey is willing to empty the cupboard and 1-2 other teams get involved.  Melo, on the other hand, is very much in play.  Phil Jackson is charming, I'm sure, but there is just no way to paint a bright future for New York.  Their best way out of this is to deal Melo and reload that way.

 

Which leads to my next thought.  Lin is a tough trade piece, but not impossible.  I think 4 teams could legitimately be interested in him right now (that could change depending on player movement).  First, I'd say every team knows he is available which means if they think he has value (data supports that Lin is a strong player at PG when given the reins of the offense--someone will gamble) they can shop their own PG trying to upgrade another position and then go after him.

 

Back to the 4 teams: New York, Orlando, Sacramento, and Chicago.  The Knicks are obvious, plus this could be a big part of a Melo deal.  Orlando is about to let Jameer Nelson walk.  They just got out from under $22M of Gilbert Arenas amnesty money when this season ended so Lin's $15M won't scare them.  Oladipo and Lin would make for a fun and exciting young back court to build around and Vucevic is a good Center to build around.  Afflalo has two more years on his contract and I don't think Orlando got what they wanted out of him.  Afflalo is making about $7.5M so the money works and he gives us a solid back up SG who can play some SF and has a reputation for playing good defense.  The only question is if he is willing to be the 6th man.

 

Sacramento is in play.  They've got DeMarcus Cousins locked up until 2018 and he is getting ridiculously good.  Rudy Gay is on board for next season at least.  They have McCallum signed through 2016, but he isn't ready.  Isaiah Thomas is a free agent and there is no guarantee he wants to stay or that they want him.  Also, Ben McLemore is a project they are going to stick with.  New ownership would like nothing better than to get a floor general who can right the ship and get them into the post-season.  It also won't hurt advertising revenues and being a West Coast team helps for marketing as well.  Would Morey ship out Lin for Reggie Evans (a proven rebounder/bruiser/defender) and Jason Terry (a veteran scorer with finals experience who can keep the offense humming when Harden sits) who are both expiring contracts (keeps us set up for 2015)?  Maybe...plus, I wouldn't mind seeing what Lin, McLemore, Gay, Thompson/Outlaw, and Cousins could do.  There's a lot to like there.

 

Chicago????  Yes, Chicago.  Derrick Rose is a giant question mark.  Bringing in Lin gives them either a solid 6th man, or insurance in case Rose's knee falls off.  Boozer wants out and just happens to make $16.8M next season.  I think Chicago would trade for Lin+Asik straight up for Boozer.  (It would be tough to root for Boozer, but there is no denying the man knows how to score in the post, from mid, and plays sound defense.  I think he would be a great compliment to Dwight in the front court)  Chicago gets Lin, plus I think they would toy with a twin towers of their own--depending on the team, Noah and Asik can give them a ridiculous defensive presence.  Depending on who they ask for, we might even get them to add Mike Dunleavy for a prospect or two.  It's a little far-fetched, but I think it's plausible enough to mention.  Lin could also play alongside Rose giving them a starting 5 of Rose, Lin, Butler, and 2 of Noah, Gibson, and Asik.  That's pretty good.

 

Until other moves happen I don't think any other teams would give us value or even want Lin as they have PG's they like already.  Ultimately, I think the Rockets like Lin and still see potential there.  They won't trade him just to get rid of him.  The odds are he only gets moved in a 3rd star scenario.

[timetodienow1234567]

Afflalo for Lin????

You all know I'm higher on Lin than most on this board but that trade doesn't work unless there's a 1st in there.

[Matt Maloney's Ghost]

@thejohnnygold,

 

Sac-town would be very interesting for Lin but I don't the parts to benefit us. Maybe Landry?

 

ORL - I would love Affalo. I think thats the piece! Parsons would have to be ok with coming off the bench. Affalo is better. 

 

CHI - Their Owner is way too cheap to pay Lin and Asik.

 

But if we can get Affalo, I would love that.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

I agree NY or Orlando could be Lin's next stop. even without the star option the Orlando option gives us a better fit for our team and a better overall player. I disagree Chicago or Sac will be interested. Lin has NO value. we are going to have to sweeten any deal involving him. we are lucky he is in the last year of his deal which makes swallowing his deal a little less painful for his suitors. the likelihood the Rockets keep him are slim IMO. his fit is bad and he struggles with confidence and consistency. the Rockets will be looking to stabilize Lin's roll next year with a different player.  

[rockets best fan]

@FSS

at this point I would trade Lin for nothing. they can have him if willing to take on that contract. the sooner he leaves town the better I will start to feel about next season. same with Asik. to say I am disappointed with their collective production this year is an understatement. ship them together and get us a better player who won't whine or struggle with his confidence. that should be top priority for the front office this summer and from the earlier statements released by Morey I believe that's their plan.

Edited by rockets best fan, 10 May 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[Cooper]

Signing Gortat would make zero sense.

I would probably try and start Harden Aflallo and Parsons on the wing if they could get him. Afflalo plus picks and one of their young guys is the magics best chance to get a real star not sure they would be willing to give that chance up for lin but if the rockets were sending a pick or perhaps TJones since they don't really have a pf, it seems like decent value and fills a glaring need for them.

The bulls would love to dump boozer on anyone but thats just not a good deal in that case it would be better to roll with asik and lin.

Never know what the kings are going to do so there could be a potential deal, I don't think they can afford Thomas long term if Gay decides to stick around. 

[Rahat Huq]

Melo?  You kidding me?  Melo's like a Harden.  All offense, defense is optional.  The Rockets will never be a true contender until they solve their defensive problems.

I agree on that last point.  That's why I addressed it extensively in the article.

 

 

Understand this, getting Melo "IS" a pipe-dream. If Defense and coaching are HOU main issue, whoever thinks adding Melo to the team is a great idea is really dreaming.  

Just like getting Dwight last summer was a pipe-dream?

 

Is getting 'Melo a guarantee?  Absolutely not.  Is it even likely.  No.  I'd even venture to say that its doubtful.  But pipe-dream?  No.  If you can't see how this is absolutely within the realm of plausibility, you are willfully ignoring the factors on the ground.  

[timetodienow1234567]

Why aren't people addressing Melos injury issues. He's played more at the PF spot the last two years and banging with those guys down low has caused him issues with his labrum?(shoulder area). Having him at the three would lower the chances of that happening. I don't think Melo could live at the 4 for a full season.

[redfaithful]

All of these San Antonio comparisons lack scale and understanding in my opinion.  They have a great coach and 3 stars.  For some reason, Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili get zero credit for being a BIG 3....all three future hall of famers and all three having been top 5 at their position for the last decade.  But let's ignore that and point to their system, their bench, and everything else besides the obvious--the great players.  It only works because of them.  Thibs and Pop may be able to squeeze blood from turnips when their stars are hurt, but you know what even they can't do?  Win a championship....unless the "stars align".  So compare us to them all you want, but trust me when I say the best way to emulate San Antonio is to acquire a third star (or somehow have Parsons, Jones, or Lin transform into one).  Talent makes coaching look so much better.  Does anyone think that Pop could take Miami to a 7 game finals last season with Brandon Jennings, Amir Johnson, and Joe Johnson instead of Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili?  Yes, the system is nice, but it caters to the talent and it works because of the talent.
 

 

One thing you ignore regarding SA's big 3 is the size of their ego. I would say the impact of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili's personal goals combined on the Spurs' basketball is much smaller than the impact of Harden and Howard's personal goals on the Rockets, separately. All these Harden isos and the low number of Howard PnRs harm the Rockets, not to mention Harden's focus on offense which hurts his defense. Pop manages to get his big 3 to play within the system, while McHale builds the system around Harden and Howard's preferences. Until that changes, we won't get near to the championship as SA did last year and have a good chance to doing again this year, no matter how loaded the west is.

[Mario Peña]

One thing you ignore regarding SA's big 3 is the size of their ego. I would say the impact of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili's personal goals combined on the Spurs' basketball is much smaller than the impact of Harden and Howard's personal goals on the Rockets, separately. All these Harden isos and the low number of Howard PnRs harm the Rockets, not to mention Harden's focus on offense which hurts his defense. Pop manages to get his big 3 to play within the system, while McHale builds the system around Harden and Howard's preferences. Until that changes, we won't get near to the championship as SA did last year and have a good chance to doing again this year, no matter how loaded the west is.

This is a different subject that what johnnygold addressed but it is related. The expression of player egos varies and once again San Antonio is a special situation that is pretty much unattainable now. I think where discussion about ego (often over blown and can coexist in a healthy team setting) and the Rockets stars is pertinent is when we discuss their age and maturity. To get to the point I see Howard has learned to sacrifice personal glory for the team this year which is what happens around his age. Harden on the other hand played one year carrying the team and then had to adjust in his second year to Howard's presence, that's difficult. Harden is still maturing, he's just a baby really and then fans go compare him to a Spur star player that has played almost a couple hundred playoff games, come on guys.

Maybe bringing in Melo could have a stabilizing effect on Harden who can go back to being more of a playmaker and graduate to 1a if he stays longer than Melo someday or as Melo slows down. Just throwing scenarios around, after the last two years who knows what will happen.

[Rahat Huq]

One thing you ignore regarding SA's big 3 is the size of their ego. I would say the impact of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili's personal goals combined on the Spurs' basketball is much smaller than the impact of Harden and Howard's personal goals on the Rockets, separately. All these Harden isos and the low number of Howard PnRs harm the Rockets, not to mention Harden's focus on offense which hurts his defense. Pop manages to get his big 3 to play within the system, while McHale builds the system around Harden and Howard's preferences. Until that changes, we won't get near to the championship as SA did last year and have a good chance to doing again this year, no matter how loaded the west is.

Redfaithful: I fully agree with that, but what do you prefer we do?  McHale is back - there is no changing that.  

[thejohnnygold]

One thing you ignore regarding SA's big 3 is the size of their ego. I would say the impact of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili's personal goals combined on the Spurs' basketball is much smaller than the impact of Harden and Howard's personal goals on the Rockets, separately. All these Harden isos and the low number of Howard PnRs harm the Rockets, not to mention Harden's focus on offense which hurts his defense. Pop manages to get his big 3 to play within the system, while McHale builds the system around Harden and Howard's preferences. Until that changes, we won't get near to the championship as SA did last year and have a good chance to doing again this year, no matter how loaded the west is.

 

That's very true; however, this was not always the case in San Antonio.  Duncan used to operate from the block extensively and was very similar to Hakeem.  If the defense played him straight up he would shoot and if they doubled he would pass out to open shooters.  Ginobili made his reputation the same as Harden--an elite scorer who primarily operates by getting to the rim, drawing fouls, and knocking down threes.  Parker used to be limited to driving to the rim relying on his explosiveness to score.  Over the years, their games evolved as has this famed "Spurs System".  It didn't just happen.

 

As Duncan aged, he was smart enough to defer more and more to his teammates.  Parker developed a jumper.  Ginobili became more of a playmaker for others.

 

Duncan is a once in a lifetime talent who is extremely gifted both physically and mentally--would I prefer to have a guy like that?  Of course....and so would the other 30 teams in the league.  Parker and Ginobili grew up playing the international game which focuses on different elements and strategies.  All of this factors into what is going on there.  There is a reason guys like Diaw, Mills, and Splitter are desirable to them and a reason they consistently go after those types.  Remember, they drafted Scola as well.  It didn't start that way--it evolved.  They started with an idea and then drafted around that.  Houston is in the early stages of this.

 

We don't have the right pieces around our core.  Morey is in the process of drafting these pieces.  He consistently goes after dead-eye 3 pt. shooting guards (Brooks, Canaan, Daniels, etc.) and tweener forwards with a full range of skills (Landry, Patterson, Parsons, Covington, Jones, D-Mo, etc.)

 

To me, this points to the direction he is taking the team.  I think we all have a general idea of that direction, but the nuances won't become clear until the roster is set up right, and the coaches have tweaked it to iron out the wrinkles.

 

That is just for the role players.  Most important are the stars.  Carmelo fits both criteria.  He is both a star and a tweener forward with a full range of skills.  I think Morey will push hard to get him.

 

Regarding Harden and Howard--the criticisms are valid.  I don't view them as permanent issues.  I believe they will soon hit a point (I think they have already) where this "ego" problem is overcome the same way all ego problems are overcome--through suffering.  I believe Carmelo is there as well.  I believe Howard when he says if you have any goal besides winning then you are not welcome here and he will take charge of ensuring that.  That's huge.  As a player, knowing that if Dwight thinks you aren't 100% on the same page as him he is going to call you out is a big deal.  Management isn't getting rid of him--they're getting rid of you.  I am excited to see the difference in our team next season.

 

Oh, and on a side note--I'd just like to point out to everyone who thinks Houston is the only team that runs ISO's at the end of games and that is what's killing them--last night's LAC-OKC game concluded with both teams' stars going ISO--no plays, no pick n rolls...I did see one screen.  Every team does it--for better or worse.

[Mario Peña]

It amazes me that young Rockets fans or Rockets fans with poor memories think the Spurs have been a well oiled machine all along.

[thejohnnygold]

@JG

I agree NY or Orlando could be Lin's next stop. even without the star option the Orlando option gives us a better fit for our team and a better overall player. I disagree Chicago or Sac will be interested. Lin has NO value. we are going to have to sweeten any deal involving him. we are lucky he is in the last year of his deal which makes swallowing his deal a little less painful for his suitors. the likelihood the Rockets keep him are slim IMO. his fit is bad and he struggles with confidence and consistency. the Rockets will be looking to stabilize Lin's roll next year with a different player.  

 

Oh come on, RBF--you've got to admit that your valuation of Lin is skewed too low.  If guys like Brandon Jennings, Jose Calderon, Raymond Felton, and the like can get jobs then Lin can too.  There are owners and GM's who will be willing to gamble on the idea that he actually was "held back" here and that if they give him the keys to the car he'll be a 20 & 10 guy--at worst 18 & 8.  They'll see that stellar winning % when Harden was out.  They'll see the numbers that indicate he gets better when he takes more shots.  Largely, they will be correct.  Now, we know he is too mistake prone (at least for now) and is also too streaky (again, for now) to consistently lead a team....but I think there are teams willing to take a chance--especially when it is just one year.

 

I could see him getting to New York, and with a healthy (big ifs) Chandler and Stoudemire be an ideal PG to pick n roll opponents to death.  Hardaway Jr. is a good developing SG and they can use Shump as a 3 & D guy to plug in at SF around that core.  In the East, they could easily wind up in the 4th seed.....if healthy. 

 

I know you're down on Lin and nothing I say will change that, but I disagree with your valuation of him and I think other teams will as well.

[thejohnnygold]

It amazes me that young Rockets fans or Rockets fans with poor memories think the Spurs have been a well oiled machine all along.

 

Yeah, they've been at it so long I think it is easy to presume it has always been this way.

 

I forgot to mention Bellinelli in the list of guys who come in and "magically" become great players.  Another Euro guy who fits their system perfectly.  I'd lay money that we could trade D-Mo to them and he would instantly look like a steal.  His game suits them to a "T".

 

I bet a day doesn't go by where RC Buford doesn't think about calling up Memphis and seeing if Marc Gasol is available.   Could you imagine?

 

I think it is easy to take static views on things and forget that most everything is a process of evolution.  In 3-4 years, Harden, Lin, Jones, D-Mo, Parsons, and the like will all be different players than they are today.  I'm excited for Harden to add a spin move--I feel like he's got to add something since defenders are getting better at predicting his euro step--and that is a likely candidate.  I'm also excited about Dwight's jump shot

[Matt Maloney's Ghost]

@Cooper,

 

I don't see how Gortat doesn't make any sense. If Nene and Gortat can play together, then DH and Gortat can play together. Gortat isn't as good defensively as Asik, but he can finish at the rim and space the floor better and is way more mobile. Asik, I love his effort but his foot speed is just too slow against OKC, and the Clips. We have to remind ourselves that those are the teams of the future. ( I still think the Blazers are overrated) This has to be, the Spurs last run.

 

If we get our hands on Afflalo, Parson would have to come off the bench. There is no way we can play Parsons, Harden, and Afflalo in the same lineup. I'm totally in love with Afflalo with this team.

 

The idea that we need a third superstar is crazy, I think we need tough minded role players (besides Beverly) and have Harden grow up. The guy is just 24 years old. Next year, will be a very important for Harden, it will be career defining and we have to hope that he trends toward superstar than Jamal Crawford. 

[Cooper]

Gortat plays down low with nene hovering around the top of the key and baselines, Dwight can't do that, he doesn't have the shot or passing skills of nene. Harden wouldn't have any room to drive.

I don't see why afflalo harden and parsons couldn't play together it's not like Beverley is a way better passer than any of those guys and they already hide harden on defense so that wouldn't be an issue.

[rockets best fan]

@JG

looking at it objectively I am personally more critical of Lin than most. in my view Lin has hit his ceiling. I know many don't agree with that assessment, but IMO I feel I have watched him long enough to make such a call. many feel the problem is his fit here. I don't. I believe he plays marginal because he's a marginal player. streaky, inconsistent, makes bad decisions with the ball, struggles with confidence, defensively challenged, turnover machine, any and all of these phrases could describe him. at a time when he should be in his prime he makes the mistakes of a rookie. I hear the arguments that we must wait for him to grow up, but we must also face the fact that this may never happen. Lin is 25, he's been around long enough where some of the critical points I listed above should be disappearing but that's not happening and IMO the reason that's not happening is IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS. this is who Lin is. we either accept it and work around it or ship him to the first willing taker. if one was to be honest about the situation you would have to admit that in 2013-14 Lin looked just like 2012-13 version. little to no change from his play. if he was unable to improve this year. what positive factor can you point to that says next year will be different? I'm not talking about hoping he can get better with no clear cut path to doing so, but something concrete we can hang our hats on. we all know his short comings, but how long is an acceptable timeframe for allowing him an opportunity to overcome this 2 years? 3 years? 10? fact is we must accept the fact that all players don't improve. some simply don't have drive or physical abilities or even basketball IQ to do so. I believe Lin has the drive, but is lacking in the other two areas. that's my reason for the conclusion he has reached his ceiling. he would have value if it wasn't for his contract. I know you have heard of being upside down in a car deal when trying to trade in a car, well we are upside down on Lin making the little value he has irrelevant