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@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
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@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com
@  slick shoes : (23 September 2015 - 06:37 PM) kind of late in the day but NBATV is broadcasting classis Rockets games all day today.
@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) http://bleacherrepor...ist-after-crash
@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2015 - 04:36 PM) A good article from Blinebury talking about when Hakeem and Moses used to play in the park. LINK

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Let's Talk About Kevin McHale


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#21 QNoir

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    Posted 14 March 2014 - 03:55 AM

    "We did not come out ready to play. I have no idea why. You have to ask them." Kind of threw players under the bus there. I mean, when effort doesn't explain a loss, it's all "well, we just got beat." When does the coach take some blame?


    Edited by QNoir, 14 March 2014 - 03:56 AM.

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    #22 Willk

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      Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:02 AM

      "We did not come out ready to play. I have no idea why. You have to ask them." Kind of threw players under the bus there. I mean, when effort doesn't explain a loss, it's all "well, we just got beat." When does the coach take some blame?

      What exactly did McHale do wrong? The rockets were flat tonight. Not every team comes with their "A" game every game. Thibs says the same thing when he team is flat. Carlisle says the same thing. Spoelstra, etc....


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      #23 Willk

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        Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:10 AM

        I would say McHale deserves an 7.5. I expected this year's team to be a 5-6 seed and to win their 1st round play off match-up. I did not think  D-Mo and Jones were going to be rotation pieces. I always viewed them as end of the bench players. You have to credit their improvement to McHale. You also have to credit Howard's improved post-up game to McHale. I think the team is still one player away from being serioustitle contenders.


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        #24 SadLakerFan

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          Posted 14 March 2014 - 07:38 AM

          I give him an 8 for what he's accomplished, but worry that I will have to adjust that downward when he comes face to face with Pop in the 2nd rd of the playoffs.
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          #25 dbd

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            Posted 14 March 2014 - 01:38 PM

            Tough to judge on coach Mchale. This is a team Morey put together and his philosophy was drive to the basket and shoot 3.

            McHale played in old era in which 3 wasn't so popular. Not sure how coach view new offensive ideology. 

             

            Coach McHale was able to blend drive, kick, 3, with low post and dunk after addition of Howard and development of TJ.

             

            Only weakness I see is he was slow to react and couldn't prepare/adjust the game; he played mostly with same against all opponents. 

            Last night game was evident, Bulls took low post and 3 out, we got smoked. I think the reason Lin got good numbers was he drove well and not afraid to shoot mid-range jumpers (he is probably the only Rockets shoot a lot more 2 than 3).

             

            Anyhow, McHale deserves no less than 7.5 on grade. His grade will even higher if he guides Rockets out of first round.


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            #26 rm90025

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              Posted 14 March 2014 - 02:10 PM

              I would put his grade at a 6 so far, but I think the long-term impact of early season decisions may catch up to him.  The biggest vulnerability for McHale is his inability to integrate Asik into the rotation in a meaningful way, where Asik plays the way he did last year, even if in less minutes. Without his post presence, I don't think the Rockets could even outlast the GS Warriors in a 7 game first round series.  Dwight Howard is just not that impactful defensively to dominate the paint.  

               

              His second vulnerability (which is tied somewhat to the first) is his decision to give Beverley prominence as a 30+ minute per game starter.  Beverley is inconsistent to poor offensively and defensively does not make a significant impact on opposing PGs points, FG% or the overall score.  He is taking minutes away from Lin, but also other players like Garcia, Casspi and even Asik because McHale often uses the 3 guard rotation and leaves a SF, PF and big out of the lineup.  

               

              McHale will be judged by the postseason.  A first round loss is a failure.  A second round loss is a push.  Conference final or finals is a big step forward.


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              #27 bluemars

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                Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:20 PM

                I'm sorry to bring in Lin into the discussion but I didn't get a chance to address the whole "McHale is biased against Lin and doesn't play him enough argument" in the last thread and want to share my 2 cents.

                 

                When Lin was going through his terrible stretch prior to the last 3 games, he absolutely deserved to have his minutes dropped. He was playing awfully and was a detriment to the team. The Rockets are a championship contender and don't have the luxury to give a negative player minutes on the hope that he would play his way out of a slump. Nevertheless, the way Lin played during those games is not indicative of his career to this point. Saying nothing of the Linsanity stretch, we've seen how good he can be in multiple games for the Rockets, particularly when Harden is out.
                 
                Quite a few posters have complained about the "short leash" that McHale supposedly has Lin on. I have to say that I think there is come credence to the argument that Lin would play better and become better if he was allowed more leeway. Players improve more and play better when they are given what Thrope calls the "royal jelly" treatment and know that they won't be benched for every mistake that they make. (Royal jelly is what turns a female bee into a queen bee.)  See
                 
                "Playing time is the first part," says Thorpe. "A coach's support is another thing -- it helps you grow as a player if you know you're not going to get yanked the first time you miss a shot. That gives you the confidence to be creative and expand your game..."
                 
                Now, if Harden and Howard had never joined the team, Lin absolutely should be given the "royal jelly" treatment. Teams give lottery pick players (like John Wall) years of opportunities to develop into a great player because they have shown their talent and ability prior to the NBA. During Linsanity, Lin played like a superstar, not in high school, not in college, not in the D-League or Europe, but the frickin' NBA! In most cases, it is hard to tell which players will succeed in the NBA. You see #1 picks going bust all the time. Unless you are looking at the next LBJ, Linsanity is as good as an indicator of success as you are going to get. (On top of Linsanity, almost every time Harden is out, he has shown he can play at that level.)
                 
                BUT things changed when the Rockets acquired Harden and later Howard. Suddenly, they didn't need to invest in a player that might develop into a superstar, they had superstars on hand. The team is in win NOW mode not give Lin a year or two of royal jelly hoping that he develops into an all-star. It's not that McHale has something against Lin, it's just that given the present situation, it is not in the Rocket's best interest to give Lin that kind of leeway. In fact, I think McHale has shown that he is very willing to play Lin when Lin is playing well. After his horrifying slump, it only took one game (vs. Pacers) before he started giving Lin heavy minutes again against Portland. 
                 
                (That being said, there were some games last year that McHale inexplicably benched Lin for. The loss to Orlando being a prime example. However, I do think he has been quite fair this year.)
                 
                Not that it should matter, but I am a Lin fan...

                Edited by bluemars, 14 March 2014 - 05:20 PM.

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                #28 marvelman821

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                  Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:51 PM

                  Tough to judge on coach Mchale. This is a team Morey put together and his philosophy was drive to the basket and shoot 3.

                  McHale played in old era in which 3 wasn't so popular. Not sure how coach view new offensive ideology. 

                   

                  Coach McHale was able to blend drive, kick, 3, with low post and dunk after addition of Howard and development of TJ.

                   

                  Only weakness I see is he was slow to react and couldn't prepare/adjust the game; he played mostly with same against all opponents. 

                  Last night game was evident, Bulls took low post and 3 out, we got smoked. I think the reason Lin got good numbers was he drove well and not afraid to shoot mid-range jumpers (he is probably the only Rockets shoot a lot more 2 than 3).

                   

                  Anyhow, McHale deserves no less than 7.5 on grade. His grade will even higher if he guides Rockets out of first round.

                  Yes when the team takes their 3 and post out that's when i feel they need to have a mid-range in there as backup to keep the defenses thinking.  this is what happened against okc and the bulls. or even they need plays where they can get more opens 3s or where they can create space for drives to the paint. this is where mchale's weaknesses come in since he doesn't really have a lot of set plays. 


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                  #29 marvelman821

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                    Posted 14 March 2014 - 05:55 PM

                     

                    I'm sorry to bring in Lin into the discussion but I didn't get a chance to address the whole "McHale is biased against Lin and doesn't play him enough argument" in the last thread and want to share my 2 cents.

                     

                    When Lin was going through his terrible stretch prior to the last 3 games, he absolutely deserved to have his minutes dropped. He was playing awfully and was a detriment to the team. The Rockets are a championship contender and don't have the luxury to give a negative player minutes on the hope that he would play his way out of a slump. Nevertheless, the way Lin played during those games is not indicative of his career to this point. Saying nothing of the Linsanity stretch, we've seen how good he can be in multiple games for the Rockets, particularly when Harden is out.
                     
                    Quite a few posters have complained about the "short leash" that McHale supposedly has Lin on. I have to say that I think there is come credence to the argument that Lin would play better and become better if he was allowed more leeway. Players improve more and play better when they are given what Thrope calls the "royal jelly" treatment and know that they won't be benched for every mistake that they make. (Royal jelly is what turns a female bee into a queen bee.)  See
                     
                    "Playing time is the first part," says Thorpe. "A coach's support is another thing -- it helps you grow as a player if you know you're not going to get yanked the first time you miss a shot. That gives you the confidence to be creative and expand your game..."
                     
                    Now, if Harden and Howard had never joined the team, Lin absolutely should be given the "royal jelly" treatment. Teams give lottery pick players (like John Wall) years of opportunities to develop into a great player because they have shown their talent and ability prior to the NBA. During Linsanity, Lin played like a superstar, not in high school, not in college, not in the D-League or Europe, but the frickin' NBA! In most cases, it is hard to tell which players will succeed in the NBA. You see #1 picks going bust all the time. Unless you are looking at the next LBJ, Linsanity is as good as an indicator of success as you are going to get. (On top of Linsanity, almost every time Harden is out, he has shown he can play at that level.)
                     
                    BUT things changed when the Rockets acquired Harden and later Howard. Suddenly, they didn't need to invest in a player that might develop into a superstar, they had superstars on hand. The team is in win NOW mode not give Lin a year or two of royal jelly hoping that he develops into an all-star. It's not that McHale has something against Lin, it's just that given the present situation, it is not in the Rocket's best interest to give Lin that kind of leeway. In fact, I think McHale has shown that he is very willing to play Lin when Lin is playing well. After his horrifying slump, it only took one game (vs. Pacers) before he started giving Lin heavy minutes again against Portland. 
                     
                    (That being said, there were some games last year that McHale inexplicably benched Lin for. The loss to Orlando being a prime example. However, I do think he has been quite fair this year.)
                     
                    Not that it should matter, but I am a Lin fan...

                     

                    i pretty much agree. Lin won't be able to develop as far as he can until he gets out of Houston and becomes a full tim starter.  I guess we will see after next year and see what he decides.


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                    #30 marvelman821

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                      Posted 14 March 2014 - 06:00 PM

                      eventually the team needs to implement a mid range game as backup. in the halfcourt, teams like the spurs, okc and thunder will be quick to defend the perimeter and the size of these teams will make post play difficult.  Or Mchale should try and take some plays of the 2007-2008 celtic team (rondo, allen, pierce, garnett, perkins) when they would have plays where there would be multiple picks to get ray allen open looks at 3s or jump shots.  the rockets should have something like this in their playbooks for their best shooters like Harden, Parsons, Lin, etc. 


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                      #31 QNoir

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                        Posted 15 March 2014 - 02:48 AM

                        eventually the team needs to implement a mid range game as backup. in the halfcourt, teams like the spurs, okc and thunder will be quick to defend the perimeter and the size of these teams will make post play difficult.  Or Mchale should try and take some plays of the 2007-2008 celtic team (rondo, allen, pierce, garnett, perkins) when they would have plays where there would be multiple picks to get ray allen open looks at 3s or jump shots.  the rockets should have something like this in their playbooks for their best shooters like Harden, Parsons, Lin, etc. 

                        Agree there. The shots are there; they just have to take them. Howard's presence makes them widely available.


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                        #32 datruth

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                          Posted 15 March 2014 - 04:47 AM

                          Mchale should be graded at the end of the year. 

                          This team has a lot of talent and he should be graded like everyone else when the job is completed.

                          Mchale is often slow to react and let's not fool ourselves this team is loaded with talent.

                          Go rockets.


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                          #33 rm90025

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                            Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:01 PM

                             

                            I'm sorry to bring in Lin into the discussion but I didn't get a chance to address the whole "McHale is biased against Lin and doesn't play him enough argument" in the last thread and want to share my 2 cents.

                             

                            When Lin was going through his terrible stretch prior to the last 3 games, he absolutely deserved to have his minutes dropped. He was playing awfully and was a detriment to the team. The Rockets are a championship contender and don't have the luxury to give a negative player minutes on the hope that he would play his way out of a slump. Nevertheless, the way Lin played during those games is not indicative of his career to this point. Saying nothing of the Linsanity stretch, we've seen how good he can be in multiple games for the Rockets, particularly when Harden is out.
                             
                            Quite a few posters have complained about the "short leash" that McHale supposedly has Lin on. I have to say that I think there is come credence to the argument that Lin would play better and become better if he was allowed more leeway. Players improve more and play better when they are given what Thrope calls the "royal jelly" treatment and know that they won't be benched for every mistake that they make. (Royal jelly is what turns a female bee into a queen bee.)  See
                             
                            "Playing time is the first part," says Thorpe. "A coach's support is another thing -- it helps you grow as a player if you know you're not going to get yanked the first time you miss a shot. That gives you the confidence to be creative and expand your game..."
                             
                            Now, if Harden and Howard had never joined the team, Lin absolutely should be given the "royal jelly" treatment. Teams give lottery pick players (like John Wall) years of opportunities to develop into a great player because they have shown their talent and ability prior to the NBA. During Linsanity, Lin played like a superstar, not in high school, not in college, not in the D-League or Europe, but the frickin' NBA! In most cases, it is hard to tell which players will succeed in the NBA. You see #1 picks going bust all the time. Unless you are looking at the next LBJ, Linsanity is as good as an indicator of success as you are going to get. (On top of Linsanity, almost every time Harden is out, he has shown he can play at that level.)
                             
                            BUT things changed when the Rockets acquired Harden and later Howard. Suddenly, they didn't need to invest in a player that might develop into a superstar, they had superstars on hand. The team is in win NOW mode not give Lin a year or two of royal jelly hoping that he develops into an all-star. It's not that McHale has something against Lin, it's just that given the present situation, it is not in the Rocket's best interest to give Lin that kind of leeway. In fact, I think McHale has shown that he is very willing to play Lin when Lin is playing well. After his horrifying slump, it only took one game (vs. Pacers) before he started giving Lin heavy minutes again against Portland. 
                             
                            (That being said, there were some games last year that McHale inexplicably benched Lin for. The loss to Orlando being a prime example. However, I do think he has been quite fair this year.)
                             
                            Not that it should matter, but I am a Lin fan...

                             

                            It's not about whether McHale has Lin on a short leash, but rather whether he can make adjustments based on actual data.  When Lin has played 24 or more minutes this season, his numbers are very good.  He averages 15.3 pts and about 5.4 assists and 47%+ shooting.  Those are not just good numbers, those numbers align to those of the top PGs in the game. If he were starting and getting regular minutes, it is not a stretch to say that Lin would be averaging 17/7 and shoot above 45%.  It is a very short list of PGs that can do that.  I believe Tony Parker and Steph Curry might be the only PGs with a higher shooting % than Lin.  The Rockets are also 28-14 in those games, so giving him a lot of minutes doesn't hurt the team's performance.  When Lin gets less than 24 minutes, you're simply not going to get these numbers (nor should McHale expect to).

                             

                            Lin has shown himself to be adaptable and can be productive no matter how the team chooses to use him.  The bigger issue for McHale in my view is how he gets Asik involved and whether his commitment to giving Beverley a prominent role is going to work out as we progress through the regular season and the playoffs.  When Beverley gets 30 minutes a game, that means other players (not just Lin) are not going to see as many minutes and will not have a chance to make an impact. That sort of cost-benefit analysis has to be taken into account when judging McHale's decisions.


                            Edited by rm90025, 15 March 2014 - 06:10 PM.

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                            #34 Willk

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                              Posted 15 March 2014 - 06:23 PM

                              It's not about whether McHale has Lin on a short leash, but rather whether he can make adjustments based on actual data.  When Lin has played 24 or more minutes this season, his numbers are very good.  He averages 15.3 pts and about 5.4 assists and 47%+ shooting.  Those are not just good numbers, those numbers align to those of the top PGs in the game. If he were starting and getting regular minutes, it is not a stretch to say that Lin would be averaging 17/7 and shoot above 45%.  It is a very short list of PGs that can do that.  I believe Tony Parker and Steph Curry might be the only PGs with a higher shooting % than Lin.  The Rockets are also 28-14 in those games, so giving him a lot of minutes doesn't hurt the team's performance.  When Lin gets less than 24 minutes, you're simply not going to get these numbers (nor should McHale expect to).

                               

                              Lin has shown himself to be adaptable and can be productive no matter how the team chooses to use him.  The bigger issue for McHale in my view is how he gets Asik involved and whether his commitment to giving Beverley a prominent role is going to work out as we progress through the regular season and the playoffs.  When Beverley gets 30 minutes a game, that means other players (not just Lin) are not going to see as many minutes and will not have a chance to make an impact. That sort of cost-benefit analysis has to be taken into account when judging McHale's decisions.

                              Here are stats that shows McHale is appropriately handing out playing time to Lin and Bev:

                              http://www.basketbal...01/on-off/2014/:

                              http://www.basketbal...01/on-off/2014/

                              http://www.basketbal...U/2014/lineups/

                              The rockets outscore their opponent by 5.8 points per game with Beverley on the floor. The top 3 five man line-ups do not involve Lin. Five out of the top 7 lineups do not involve Lin. The rockets are outscored by 1.5 points with Lin on the floor. How do you win when you are outscored? It is obvious that McHale does analyze the data and uses it appropriately. The rockets are better w/ Bev on the floor, the data shows this. You have mentioned how much better Lin's stats are when he plays more, but we are looking for what is best for the rockets, not one guy. Having Bev on the floor is better for the rockets.


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                              #35 thejohnnygold

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                              Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:17 AM

                              I agree with Willk here.  By the way, our record when Lin is under 24 minutes--16-7.  Which is a slightly better (albeit negligible) winning % than the 28-14 which was cited earlier.  Basically, Lin's minutes don't seem to make a difference to our winning percentage.

                               

                              Since Bev has been back from injury we are 18-6.  That is a winning percentage worth noting (.750).  He has played 24+ minutes in all of those games.

                               

                              Getting back to McHale--it is often said that he is slow to react.  While I don't disagree with this 100% I also do not support it either.  It may be by design, or choice, that he is "slow" to make a change.  By leaving the players to their own devices he is putting the onus on them to adjust, learn, and overcome whatever adversity they are facing.  Some guy named Phil Jackson is renowned for this approach.

                               

                              I would also point out that many who claim he is too slow to make a move also claim he is too fast when it comes to pulling players.  I welcome the windfall of responses that this may elicit--let's just try to keep it on topic (meaning McHale) :)


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                              #36 timetodienow1234567

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                              Posted 16 March 2014 - 01:57 AM

                              If we lose in the first round does anyone think that Mchale should stay?
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                              Why so Serious? :D


                              #37 datruth

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                                Posted 16 March 2014 - 02:54 AM

                                Okay i'am confused.

                                In November 1 game and Beverly played ten minutes and got hurt. we won that game so Beverly gets credit for that.

                                In December Beverly played 10 games and the team was 5-5. So you saying we couldn't do that with or without Beverly.

                                In January we was 4-2 with Beverly so we couldn't win 4 out of six games without a guy that scores 9 points and 2 assist a game.

                                Now in February Beverly presence was felt the team was 7-2 with him on the floor

                                March we are 5-2 with Beverly on the floor,

                                Here the funny and tricky part,, 11 times we won games when Beverly shot .33% or less.

                                7 times we won  games when he made 2 shots or less.

                                Beverly plays almost 32 minutes per game, he averages 9 points and 2 assists per game. A defensive player that averages 1.4 steals and 3.2 fouls a game. so he giving up more than he is bringing in. 

                                When you look at the stats it's hard to think that this team would win or lose games because of Beverly, but some people think he is the heart of the team. We should all wait till the end of the year to judge this team. First round exit in my mind is not good.


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                                #38 thejohnnygold

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                                Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:16 PM

                                What's confusing?  The same logic that was applied to one player was applied to another.  Apparently that's not what we do.  While some people may claim "heart and soul" status for Beverley I am not one of them.  To be honest, I don't actually recall anyone saying that here.  Many people do think he affects the group as a whole in a positive way--so if that's how you define it then I guess he is.

                                 

                                It has been said time and time again that Bev's influence does not easily show up in the stat sheet.  To solely rely on that source to grade and judge him....well, it tells the narrative you want to hear so I guess it makes sense.

                                 

                                McHale (keeping this on topic) has had the luxury, the choice, and opportunity to find this team's best lineups and groupings.  I think it is very apparent both through watching the games and examining the stats what those are and I applaud him for ignoring public approval/disapproval.

                                 

                                By the way, that 5-4 start to the season was on the back of the twin tower failing, Bev missing 4 games, and trying to assimilate a new group of players with new roles.  If criticisms are gong to be levied it is best to consider all of the things influencing what is happening on the court.  I know some think it was a blessing in disguise, but I think Greg Smith's injury was detrimental to our success.  The guy is limited, but he is elite at a few things and that is all you need.  Paired with Lin I think he would have done a great job giving him an outlet when he gets caught in traffic and cleaning the glass.

                                 

                                That would have made Lin's move to 6th man easier and more impressive in my opinion.  Instead, all of our backups regressed--all of them--until D-Mo stepped up and Asik came back.  As much as we need Howard, Harden, Parsons, and Jones to show up down the stretch and in the playoffs we also need those other guys to at least play at their averages if we want to have a solid playoff spot and win a series.

                                 

                                This is part of why I continue to think McHale is hanging them out to dry (aka slow to react).  Teaching is always more effective when you can point to the failure afterwards.  Trying to tell someone "it won't work you need to change" before then seldom works--people need to experience why it won't work before they are willing to listen and adjust.  (most of the time)

                                 

                                The calls to wait until the end of the season are correct, but that's not what we're doing.  We're grading him now so either participate or don't--no need to rain on our lovely parade. :P


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                                #39 Cooper

                                Cooper

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                                  Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:41 PM

                                  I don't think Beverley is the heart an soul of the team but he's the only tough guy and the only one that plays with passion every game and successful teams need someone like that. You say theyd have a similar record with but for you really think Lin and Canaan as the Pgs would not have cost some wins? Especially in the stretches where Lin has gone 2-8 with 4tos etc... Seems hard to believe
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                                  #40 dbd

                                  dbd

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                                    Posted 16 March 2014 - 03:51 PM

                                    You do believe in stats or you don't. But you used stats to argue over a player and totally dismissed stats to favor another is wrong.


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