73 replies to this topic

[Mason Khamvilay]

They're original ideas? Interesting. 

[thejohnnygold]

Here is a video showing options from an older Howard/Asik set I presented a couple months ago.  This is one where Asik and Howard both set up in the high post.  Howard is the 4 for this.

 

[thejohnnygold]

They're original ideas? Interesting. 

They are original in that they came from my own mind--not meaning to imply no one has ever thought of them before--that goes against Platonic ideals.

 

It's cool--I don't mind if you think it can't work due to insufficient video evidence.  I disagree.  We've got talent across the floor...we should be able to run all kinds of plays successfully as we all know talent ultimately trumps everything else in basketball.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Tip: If you type PnR instead of pick and roll, you will find more NBA examples that have been used by the likes of Zach Lowe and other writers who used video examples for their articles. 

 

For example, when I typed in PnR defense I found plenty of examples like this:

 

The reason I want you to find an example is this: Plays that work in theory might not always work against elite NBA defenses, especially if the play involves crowded spaces where certain defenders can quickly show and return or rotate. 

[thejohnnygold]

Nice video...not running the same play at all...not sure how relevant.  Further, the personnel is different...which matters.

 

I'm not guaranteeing it will work--how could I?  In similar fashion, you cannot guarantee it won't.

 

I believe that our players could execute these kinds of sets--even against good defenses.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Was just a tip on how to better your searches for the right video. Just trying to help. 

[thejohnnygold]

Thanks--I've used the internets before.

 

Since this seems to be more important to you and you are better at finding them than me can you find those videos and past them for us all?

[Steven]

What is the Internet?

[Mason Khamvilay]

Thanks--I've used the internets before.

 

Since this seems to be more important to you and you are better at finding them than me can you find those videos and past them for us all?

I think we both know that neither of us can find an example of the play that works in your head

Edited by 2016Champions, 18 July 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[thejohnnygold]

Begs the question of why you asked in the first place, no?

 

Let's get back to the point here....Dwight freakin Howard is our center.  There are so many plays to run.  Everyone will be trying to throw alley-oops for Dwight.  We all know that most of the time we will have a stretch four on the floor.  I don't think anyone is implying that Dwight/Omer will be our best line-up--I do think that they will sport an excellent scoring margin overall (again, barring some hot shooting from outside) as the defense and rebounding should be optimal.

 

The real question is how well D-Mo and Dwight play off each other as I think this could be an excellent combo.  D-Mo has decent handles and can make some nice passes.  He can be a nightmare match-up for opposing teams as he can simply move outside if they try to defend him with a Big or go inside if they try to put speed on him.

 

I think we have a pretty solid idea of what T-Jones is gong to bring to the table.  That's perfectly fine.  D-Mo still has a higher ceiling I feel given his size and post game PLUS he's going to get some time with Hakeem as well...mmmm, dream shake.....

[Steven]

Howard and Asik should never be on the court together. The team will be a minus cause the team won't be able to score, no matter how good the defense.

[Mario Peña]

To bring this back to reality I have to say I thoroughly look forward to McHale calling for Dwight to post up and watching the Rockets out muscle and breakdown some defenses inside out. Of course other nights the transition game or pick and roll games might be featured.

[miketheodio]

im still not sold on DMO over jones. the only thing he has over tjones is post moves.

[thejohnnygold]

To bring this back to reality I have to say I thoroughly look forward to McHale calling for Dwight to post up and watching the Rockets out muscle and breakdown some defenses inside out. Of course other nights the transition game or pick and roll games might be featured.

 

Exactly.

 

im still not sold on DMO over jones. the only thing he has over tjones is post moves.

 

Agreed.  I believe Jones will be the starter because his weakside defense should be superior.  Still, If D-Mo can get going in the post it changes everything...imagine if he starts getting double-teamed (a big if, but possible) and can then dish to an open Dwight or 3 pt. shooter.  It's very intriguing...

[miketheodio]

i like jones' defense and knack for rebounding. i think id take a guy making hustle plays over a post player. i think that is optimal on the starting 5 considering the amount of people who need the ball in their hands.

Edited by miketheodio, 18 July 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[thejohnnygold]

Agreed.  I think we'll get to see them featured more in blowouts.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I came across a really cool article written by Carl Fudge of MBA at Sloan MIT (not sure if I can post the link in this forum because it's a link to a rival forum, but I'll post some snippits of what I found relevant to this thread)

 

Houston’s Pick-and-Roll

The Rockets went to the pick-and-roll nearly 1 out of every 4 times they were in a half court offense last season. Just how good was the Rockets’ pick-and-roll? The short answer is it was very good. In fact, the Rockets were the 3rd best team in the league, generating 0.92 points every time they ran it (only the Knicks and Heat were better).

The long answer requires thinking of the play in terms of two outcomes: the ball handler coming off the pick and taking the shot himself, or the ball handler passing to the rolling screener and letting him finish the play instead. If the ball handler took the shot, the Rockets were the best team in the NBA, but on the roll part of the play they ranked only 10th.

Harden’s Bread And Butter

By far the biggest driver of pick-and-roll success for the Rockets was star shooting guard James Harden. In fact, out of the 1,700 or so times the Rockets ran the play last year, Harden ended up deciding the outcome over 500 times. He averaged exactly one point per possession in these situations, the 5th best mark in the entire NBA, justifying his reputation as one of the very best pick-and-roll players in the league (even putting him above Chris Paul, who was #6).

Omer Asik was limited. While he could certainly set a mean screen, he was not as comfortable with the ball and ranked as only the 55th best pick-and-roll finisher, putting him among some of the worst front court starters in the NBA.

While Asik was not horrible and did get better over time – he still shot close to 60% – he lacks the footwork, hands and overall coordination to perform at an elite level in this part of the game. There is much to love about his skillset, but catching the ball on the run while avoiding the charge or travel and then finishing at the hoop is not a particular strength of his.

Enter Dwight Howard

With a unique combination of power, coordination and timing, Howard has consistently ranked among the best players in the league at finishing the pick-and-roll. In his “down year” last season, Howard was the 9th best roll man in the NBA, but in 2011-12 he was 2nd best and in 2010-11 he was #1. Last year Dwight averaged 1.29 points per pick-and-roll (30% better than Asik) on 79.6% FG%. To put this in perspective, this is significantly higher than the points per possession he scored on the post-ups he is said to favor (0.74) and even more points than he scored in transition (1.22).

Other than the rare occasions when Dwight got a wide open dunk, the pick-and-roll was his highest percentage scoring opportunity. If he doesn’t realize this now, I’m sure GM Daryl Morey and his team of number crunchers will have hammered it home soon.

Howard is so dangerous off the pick-and-roll because of his explosiveness and ability to score in so many different ways, as our highlight reel here shows: 

The early results are already good. Jeremy Lin spoke with Jason Friedman of Rockets.com about Howard after playing with him at an unofficial Rocket mini-camp in Los Angeles this week.

“He’s just an athletic freak,” said Lin. “Certain sets with him rolling down the paint toward the basket and using his athleticism, it’s going to be really good for us. I think we can be really creative with the ways that we use him. He’s just an animal when it comes to everything near the rim – he’s thrown down numerous alley-oops already from James. He forces defenders to take an extra step or two to make sure he doesn’t get the ball just because he’s so explosive and so strong, and that gives us so much room to work. He’s either getting a dunk or someone else is left wide-open.”

While this all sounds fantastic in theory, Dwight’s willingness to run the pick-and-roll was called into question last week by Steve Nash, who claimed in an ESPN radio interview that it “didn’t seem like (Dwight) really wanted to do a pick-and-roll offense” while with the Lakers. Fortunately, Dwight seemed to dispel that notion in his interview with Stephen A. Smith, commenting, “The way [James Harden] plays throughout that pick-and-roll – who’s going to stop that pick-and-roll?”

Good question, because while the Rockets were a dangerous pick-and-roll team with Harden and Asik, they could be downright lethal with Harden and Howard. With elite performers now on both sides of the play, I fully expect Houston to become the leading pick-and-roll team in the entire NBA next year.

[ale11]

Why be unpredictable when you can be unstoppable? With 4 3pt shooters and Dwight rolling to the basket I see only one of three scenarios: 

Dwight dunks it.

Somebody gets an open 3.  

Harden scores. 

 

Besides, unpredictability goes away in the playoffs because teams will thoroughly study game tape and know what to look for. I'd rather be perpetually unstoppable than temporarily unpredictable. 

 

 

In the case I pointed out, there would be 3 players to guard Howard and Harden, leaving Asik open, and given Asik's offensive limitations, it's not necessarily an easy basket. Although I'd take my chances any day, lol. Either way, we are in a good place right now.

[ale11]

The reason Dwight didn't want to play PnR back in LA is because most of the times, Kobe was the ball handler and we all know that most nights, he is nothing close to a willing passer.

[Mason Khamvilay]

In the case I pointed out, there would be 3 players to guard Howard and Harden, leaving Asik open, and given Asik's offensive limitations, it's not necessarily an easy basket. Although I'd take my chances any day, lol. Either way, we are in a good place right now.

You're underestimating how quickly elite defenses rotate, or show and return, especially in the playoffs. Today alot of teams are copying Thibbs style of defense which he made famous in Boston--it's a perpetual motion defense which is like zone defense better. This will give you an idea of what I mean: