182 replies to this topic

[rockets best fan]

Your yourself said we might only get a 2nd round pick in return for him. How much lower can it get? A 3rd round pick? I'll take that chance 

 I agree it is low, but any lower and we won't be able to get a big mac and fries or even a happy meal  in which case we will be forced to ride it out for the next 2 years. that's something I wouldn't be willing to do if I was in morey's shoes.

[thejohnnygold]

We're forgetting the Demand side of this equation.  It must be considered when assessing Lin's (or Bev's) value.  Currently, there are not very many teams looking for starting PG's.  I think I can list them off the top of my head: Lakers (?), Mavs, Jazz, Kings (?), Magic (?)....that's about it.  Everyone else has an established PG or a young, high draft pick.

 

Lin's value in this type of market is going to be relatively low after factoring in his performance vs. salary.  If we are looking at this economically it doesn't make any sense to move Lin unless one of the above teams (that would value him higher) is interested.  From a basketball perspective, I think it is apparent he is still developing so his value will increase over time (my opinion, of course).

 

Regarding Bev, demand for a pesky, defensive PG that makes few mistakes, has leadership qualities and is happy to come off the bench while being paid less than $1M should be relatively high.  If Morey did pull the trigger, I think we would get a decent haul for him.  From the basketball perspective, I think this indicates we should keep him as having two solid PG's is always a good thing--just look at the injury list from this year.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I think he could get a 1st round pick for Bev. 

 

edit: I mean before his contract year ends, which means Bev still has another year to impress other GM's which I think he will.

[Freebird]

^Wow - that's quite ambitious.

 

Bev has the motor thing going, but he still plays like a rookie - not enough offensive confidence, and over-eager to impress.  His peskiness is not really good defense - it's just an annoyance.  He takes more risks than he should, and his transition D was terrible - instead of getting back to defend, he always crashed for the offensive rebound.  Not a terrible thing, but gutsy - you miss the board, they get a layup more often than not.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Bev.  He translated his game quickly, and flat-out played better than Douglas.  He deserved his minutes, and filled in adequately for Lin after the injury.  He fouled a bit too often for my taste, but hopefully a year's seasoning will help with that.

 

JG - not sure the Kings and Magic are looking for PGs, what with Isaiah and Nelson, respectively.  Agree with the rest, though.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I mean before his contract year ends, which means Bev still has another year to impress other GM's which I think he will. I do agree with your current assessment though. 

[rockets best fan]

^Wow - that's quite ambitious.

 

Bev has the motor thing going, but he still plays like a rookie - not enough offensive confidence, and over-eager to impress.  His peskiness is not really good defense - it's just an annoyance.  He takes more risks than he should, and his transition D was terrible - instead of getting back to defend, he always crashed for the offensive rebound.  Not a terrible thing, but gutsy - you miss the board, they get a layup more often than not.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Bev.  He translated his game quickly, and flat-out played better than Douglas.  He deserved his minutes, and filled in adequately for Lin after the injury.  He fouled a bit too often for my taste, but hopefully a year's seasoning will help with that.

 

JG - not sure the Kings and Magic are looking for PGs, what with Isaiah and Nelson, respectively.  Agree with the rest, though.

you forget one thing.....last year he was a rookie to the nba. believing his pesky defense is not affecting the game simply is not giving the man his proper credit (IMO). bev plays outstanding defense....yes he does need to refine his game so that he commits less fouls, but he was a rookie. I expect he will be under better control this coming year. and yes I believe the rockets could get a late 2nd rounder for bev if they elected to move him. especially in a draft like this years.

 

JG I agree. all of those teams dallas, Utah, lakers, kings and magic will be looking for PGs. however their are others they may view lin with value. for example the bucks if they are unable to match Jennings offer sheet. Detroit if calderon goes somewhere else is another one. how about this trade...lin and t-rob to phoenix for dragic and marcus morris? i'm sure the knicks would welcome him back if they could get him.................so it's not like there are no options should the rockets elect to move him.  

[Freebird]

you forget one thing.....last year he was a rookie to the nba. believing his pesky defense is not affecting the game simply is not giving the man his proper credit (IMO). bev plays outstanding defense....yes he does need to refine his game so that he commits less fouls, but he was a rookie. I expect he will be under better control this coming year. and yes I believe the rockets could get a late 2nd rounder for bev if they elected to move him. especially in a draft like this years.

 

JG I agree. all of those teams dallas, Utah, lakers, kings and magic will be looking for PGs. however their are others they may view lin with value. for example the bucks if they are unable to match Jennings offer sheet. Detroit if calderon goes somewhere else is another one. how about this trade...lin and t-rob to phoenix for dragic and marcus morris? i'm sure the knicks would welcome him back if they could get him.................so it's not like there are no options should the rockets elect to move him.  

 

Didn't forget - just don't give as much weigh to the "he's a rookie" argument.  Of course it's a learning process, but most of these guys have been playing like competition since HS.  I understand he was new to the league - but he had plenty of time to adjust in the first few weeks, let alone the past few months.  Plus, it's not like we play the most difficult offense or defense in the world.

 

I agree with 2016 - trade him after a little more time showcasing, and we could get a late 1st.  Not yet, but almost there.

[rockets best fan]

Didn't forget - just don't give as much weigh to the "he's a rookie" argument.  Of course it's a learning process, but most of these guys have been playing like competition since HS.  I understand he was new to the league - but he had plenty of time to adjust in the first few weeks, let alone the past few months.  Plus, it's not like we play the most difficult offense or defense in the world.

 

I agree with 2016 - trade him after a little more time showcasing, and we could get a late 1st.  Not yet, but almost there.

you should give more weight to the he's a rookie argument. some players are just late bloomers. they can still be useful, it just takes them longer and they need more development. bev is one of these type of players. that's why he needed to ply his trade in Russia. not every player will take off soaring right from the beginning.

[thejohnnygold]

you forget one thing.....last year he was a rookie to the nba. believing his pesky defense is not affecting the game simply is not giving the man his proper credit (IMO). bev plays outstanding defense....yes he does need to refine his game so that he commits less fouls, but he was a rookie. I expect he will be under better control this coming year. and yes I believe the rockets could get a late 2nd rounder for bev if they elected to move him. especially in a draft like this years.

 

JG I agree. all of those teams dallas, Utah, lakers, kings and magic will be looking for PGs. however their are others they may view lin with value. for example the bucks if they are unable to match Jennings offer sheet. Detroit if calderon goes somewhere else is another one. how about this trade...lin and t-rob to phoenix for dragic and marcus morris? i'm sure the knicks would welcome him back if they could get him.................so it's not like there are no options should the rockets elect to move him.  

 

 

I'm not so sure about that Phoenix trade proposal you got there....I'm sure the Knicks would take him in a trade, but what do they have that we want?  Novak?  They would want to dump salary in any trade.  I imagine they would try something like Felton, Novak, and Q. Richardson.  No thanks.

 

I'm curious why you think Phoenix would trade Dragic and Marcus Morris (two players they sought out) for Lin and T-Rob...I can't see the logic there.  I'm not sure why Houston would make that trade either...

 

The Bucks are a possibility...they have some good pieces, but what would they give us for Lin?  Not the one we would want (Larry Sanders)...Besides, they still have Ellis to play PG.

 

I put question marks by the Lakers, Kings, and Magic because they have serviceable PG's and would only be looking for significant upgrades or cheap alternatives--I don't think Lin matches that criteria.  I do think Lin would appeal to LA in regards to $$$ and global appeal.

[rockets best fan]

I'm not so sure about that Phoenix trade proposal you got there....I'm sure the Knicks would take him in a trade, but what do they have that we want?  Novak?  They would want to dump salary in any trade.  I imagine they would try something like Felton, Novak, and Q. Richardson.  No thanks.

 

I'm curious why you think Phoenix would trade Dragic and Marcus Morris (two players they sought out) for Lin and T-Rob...I can't see the logic there.  I'm not sure why Houston would make that trade either...

 

The Bucks are a possibility...they have some good pieces, but what would they give us for Lin?  Not the one we would want (Larry Sanders)...Besides, they still have Ellis to play PG.

 

I put question marks by the Lakers, Kings, and Magic because they have serviceable PG's and would only be looking for significant upgrades or cheap alternatives--I don't think Lin matches that criteria.  I do think Lin would appeal to LA in regards to $$$ and global appeal.

with phoenix we get a better PG. phoenix isn't going any where next year and they know it. t-rob can be the young prospect along with gortat and lin they can attempt to start building around. I really don't want mm back but just through him in to balance the deal. the trade works for both teams. unless of course you don't believe dragic is better than lin. we dump some salary to a team that can afford it and get us a better PG.....they get a young core to start building around.

 

if we deal with the bucks it's going to be more salary dump for us more than anything because I don't want Jennings or ellis. however we might be able to get Henson away form them along with some draft picks for future team building.

 

the lakers are much more likely. if we move lin to them in a D-12 sign and trade. lin's salary removal finishes the path to howard money wise and gives the lakers someone nash can groom to take over once he leaves. it's not like the lakers have a lot of choice if howard elects to leave. at that point it's either lin or nothing.......I'm pretty sure they would take lin over nothing. besides d'tonie likes lin and would probably be pushing for his acquisition. this trade gives us D-12 and about 5 mil remaining in cap room to sign additional players. we could then be free to pursue Bledsoe for t-rob+ draft pick deal or could look at someone like reddick

[thejohnnygold]

These are interesting proposals--the Lakers option is the only one I think has any chance of materializing--it makes some sense.  I don't think Milwaukee gives us Henson.  I still can't imagine Phoenix making that trade.  Statistically speaking, Lin and Dragic had nearly identical seasons with Dragic netting one extra assist per game and nearly 1 extra point per game (looking at per 36 numbers).  I would agree that, as of now, Dragic would probably be the better fit next to Harden....Still, it's a really close call--one that makes me disinclined to give up T-Rob for what is almost an even swap at PG.  I mean, if Dragic is so much better than Lin why would Phoenix let him go?

[rockets best fan]

These are interesting proposals--the Lakers option is the only one I think has any chance of materializing--it makes some sense.  I don't think Milwaukee gives us Henson.  I still can't imagine Phoenix making that trade.  Statistically speaking, Lin and Dragic had nearly identical seasons with Dragic netting one extra assist per game and nearly 1 extra point per game (looking at per 36 numbers).  I would agree that, as of now, Dragic would probably be the better fit next to Harden....Still, it's a really close call--one that makes me disinclined to give up T-Rob for what is almost an even swap at PG.  I mean, if Dragic is so much better than Lin why would Phoenix let him go?

phoenix would let him go because they don't have a dam thing to go with him  by the time they are able to build something he may not be their best option by then. it would take them being proactive. I know they don't have a history of that, but just tossing the idea out there.

 

in the last post I forgot to address NY...........the only thing I like they have is shumpert and I doubt they want to move him, but might be willing if we toss in t-rob in the deal

[thenit]

@RBF

 

"you should give more weight to the he's a rookie argument. some players are just late bloomers. they can still be useful, it just takes them longer and they need more development. bev is one of these type of players. that's why he needed to ply his trade in Russia. not every player will take off soaring right from the beginning."

 

Shouldn't this apply somewhat to Lin? We have different opinions on his overall value and skills, and we know where we stand on this. I just don't think his contract is so bad that it hinders us at the moment, even if we keep Lin and he falters, he is a trade chip due to his off field cash potential and an expiring contract for a team if he doesn't develop as I hope he might.

 

In regards of Knicks I don't think we can really make a trade with them since the luxury tax will be too big for them and that was the reason they let him go. Phoenix poses an interesting trade, but you are getting the same production with just slightly less cap hit. Dragic is a better fit than Lin with Harden but I have hard time believing that Houston or the Suns would do the proposed trade.

 

I think we keep Lin and Bev they bring different skillset and I actually think they complement each other well, so Mchale can go with the hot hand or the game situation during the game. Or if Bev outplays Lin during the pre season, we can make a switch. Lin will still hold about the same tradevalue next summer as a expiring contract even if he falters, and there will be teams willing to take that contract just for the expiring and the extra money it will bring in for that season just to get the extra income whether he develops or not to take that chance.

 

[Mason Khamvilay]

This isn't really saying much but some people here might appreciate any news they can get:

 

Q: Is Sergio Llull going to come over?

DM: It was great that Les Alexander gave us money to buy 2nd round pick a few years back to get him. Now the rules have changed so teams can't do that as much. He is #1 guard in Spain. Was MVP in one of the Euro cups recently. He is for sure an NBA ready guy. He won't come over this offseason but maybe the following one as his buyout gets lower. Now with Lin and Beverly it would be unlikely he'd play right now anyway. It's kind of admirable, he really wants to win a title in Europe and he was close this year. Before he comes over, he sort of wants to win big for Real Madrid's team because they brought him along this far in his career.

--SOURCE

 

 

I think we bring in Llull next off season so we won't need Beverley anymore. 

[quatin]

It's too early to make a call on Beverly. He brings a lot of energy, but how long can he sustain it? There's so many high energy players that come in the draft every year and find that they can't sustain that level like they could in college.

 

I would like to see him play more minutes, so we can see how he matches up against other guards and how other teams adjust for him. He doesn't have a lot of assists, but that could be due to him being new to the system and just starting to see more minutes. However, he will get into foul trouble with all the reaches and "happy hands" he does. We need a couple of solid PGs behind him.

[rockets best fan]

@RBF

 

"you should give more weight to the he's a rookie argument. some players are just late bloomers. they can still be useful, it just takes them longer and they need more development. bev is one of these type of players. that's why he needed to ply his trade in Russia. not every player will take off soaring right from the beginning."

 

Shouldn't this apply somewhat to Lin? We have different opinions on his overall value and skills, and we know where we stand on this. I just don't think his contract is so bad that it hinders us at the moment, even if we keep Lin and he falters, he is a trade chip due to his off field cash potential and an expiring contract for a team if he doesn't develop as I hope he might.

 

In regards of Knicks I don't think we can really make a trade with them since the luxury tax will be too big for them and that was the reason they let him go. Phoenix poses an interesting trade, but you are getting the same production with just slightly less cap hit. Dragic is a better fit than Lin with Harden but I have hard time believing that Houston or the Suns would do the proposed trade.

 

I think we keep Lin and Bev they bring different skillset and I actually think they complement each other well, so Mchale can go with the hot hand or the game situation during the game. Or if Bev outplays Lin during the pre season, we can make a switch. Lin will still hold about the same tradevalue next summer as a expiring contract even if he falters, and there will be teams willing to take that contract just for the expiring and the extra money it will bring in for that season just to get the extra income whether he develops or not to take that chance.

 

my earlier statement could apply to lin. however I doubt it. I just don't see the upside there.....to many fatal things to overcome in his game. I know we don't agree on him, but he may get marginally better. however I don't see much more improvement over and above what he is now. that's just how I feel about him

as for the proposed trades..........basically I was just tossing out a few possibility to show lin is not impossible to move should the rockets elect to move him.

[thenit]

Yea I agree, I actually think Lin will be easier to move in year 3 rather then year 2.

[Mason Khamvilay]

RBF,

 

Look at it this way, Lin's per 36 stats after the All-Star break were 17 points and 7 assists. What if he does that for an entire season? Don't you think we would get more in return for him if we trade him then rather than now? 

 

There's no need to rush. Think about it from a risk vs reward standpoint. 

[rockets best fan]

RBF,

 

Look at it this way, Lin's per 36 stats after the All-Star break were 17 points and 7 assists. What if he does that for an entire season? Don't you think we would get more in return for him if we trade him then rather than now? 

 

There's no need to rush. Think about it from a risk vs reward standpoint. 

hmmmm.......risk and reward.

 

THE RISK= 1. watching his contract become an anvil around the rockets necks for the next 2 years. 2. risk that he will never become more than he is now or may actually decline in play. 3. risk that he might become a distraction as bev slowly eats away at his minutes. .............no the risk aren't that great. however let view the reward

 

REWARD= 1.he may blossom into a decent PG(because anything above that is unrealistic)............not all that great for 20 mil over the next 2 seasons. I know only 16.6 is on the cap, but the man will make 20 mil 

 

when building a championship team sometimes it become necessary to trim the fat. lin's contract is fat (IMO) I'm not saying he is useless as a player, just that based on his contract and production our money can be better spent. I'm not afraid lin will go somewhere else and blossom into a star. I don't believe he has that kind of ceiling. linsanity was a fluke. all of the reasons lin went undrafted have reared their ugly heads. the guy still is good enough to be in the league, but not among the elite. if the rockets decide to ride lin's contract out it won't be a disaster. if they build up other areas it's possible to cover lin up. however why should we need to cover up a player making 20 over the next 2 years? there is no way for you to explain to me that at this point his contract is a good one

[Mason Khamvilay]

I think you're exaggerating the risks and playing down the reward lol

 

We have all seen Lin's ceiling, and I'd say that's a pretty good reward for the very little risk.