764 replies to this topic

[Mason Khamvilay]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this before but: 

 

Jeremy Lin's post All-Star break per 36:
17.2 ppg
6.8 ast
45% fg
37.5% 3pt

 

Why would you give up on someone who finished the season so strong? Because he got a chest contusion game 2 in playoffs? That doesn't make any sense unless we get Chris Paul. Even if we got Chris Paul, I would much rather sell Lin when his value is higher--and it will definitely get higher if he can put up those numbers while avoiding serious injury.

[rockets best fan]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this before but: 

 

Jeremy Lin's post All-Star break per 36:
17.2 ppg
6.8 ast
45% fg
37.5% 3pt

 

Why would you give up on someone who finished the season so strong? Because he got a chest contusion game 2 in playoffs? That doesn't make any sense unless we get Chris Paul. Even if we got Chris Paul, I would much rather sell Lin when his value is higher--and it will definitely get higher if he can put up those numbers while avoiding serious injury.

I'm not calling lin a bad player, but we can do better........that's my point..........also this is one of those instances where stats don't explain the whole story

[thenit]

I'm not calling lin a bad player, but we can do better........that's my point..........also this is one of those instances where stats don't explain the whole story

 

Lin is not perfect, but do you really want to be the franchise who gave up on him twice if he can improve on those numbers that 2016 put up?

 

Also can you please give us some names that would be better and cheaper  at this point ?

 

Another point is we are all giving people excuses that Harden can improve he is so young, same with Parsons, Asik, even most of our PF core if Mchale just get a proper off season with the the team. Why is that excluding Lin? this is the first season he ever played starters minutes and he didn't do it single handily but he was a starting pg for a playoff team his first year. Look at the post all star numbers, those are very good numbers considering that his usage rate is very low compared to other pgs because we have superstar in Harden.

 

Both Harden's and Lin's turnover would be a lot lower if Asik was able to catch bounce passes or alley oops. Every other game our guards get turnovers because of Asik's bad hands. But we all agree Asik will become better and more use to his new role and work on that. So Lin is in his 1 full nba season, give him another year and thats when we can make a good decision on whether he is our guy. There are plenty of servicable pgs that won championship if you have other pieces because when was the last time a superstar pg won it ?

[Mason Khamvilay]

I'm not calling lin a bad player, but we can do better........that's my point..........also this is one of those instances where stats don't explain the whole story

Stats might not always tell the whole story, but I have alot of respect for Morey's opinions and here are some notes that I got from this podcast:

• He's the 5th best pick and roll player in the league at 9 pick and rolls per game
• Set up team mates very well
• Had a very good defensive year--very good at 50-50 balls, very good at stripping the ball/steals
• Was 3rd best player on the team

I don't think Morey is making those things up. 

 

So we can either be crappy fans and say "hey lets trade Lin for a bag of Doritos" or we can be awesome fans and say "hey, there are some good reasons why we shouldn't give up on Jeremy Lin". The choice is yours. 

[rockets best fan]

@2016

lets deal with the morey comment first...............you always talk about what morey said in regards to a player. when have you heard morey come down on a player in the media. even Royce doesn't get slammed. morey is a true professional  in the way he handles the rockets.....that's one of the reasons I like him. however to assume he will not move a player because he spoke favorably on him is unrealistic and shows you have not been watching him closely. morey is a good salesman. why would you talk down about as asset you may be interested in moving in the off season? doesn't make sense does it? that imo renders his comments a nonfactor in this situation.

 

now for the meat of this subject  there are several guards available for cheaper....calderon, trade for Bledsoe just for a couple of outsiders, however I'm ok with letting bev  and brooks play there until we find what we want, especially if we sign howard. lin's contract is fast becoming an anvil around the necks of the rockets. thankfully it only has 2 more years, but now may be the time to move it while he does still hold some value. I have been patient with all our young players this year. I know rome wasn't built in a day unlike many here. I agree lin does have a chance to improve. however his ceiling is a lot lower than I thought from the beginning. that's why I believe he should be moved.

 

and finally stats.................you can quote all the stats you want to.............however lin is failing the eye test   the others you mention are not failing that part. I could bring up a wheel barrel full of reasons why he is failing the test, but the fact of the matter is he doesn't play like a 10 mil a year point guard. that's what the rockets will be paying for his services should they elect to keep him

[thenit]

1. I don't know what his ceiling is and I think it depends on him having the ball in his hands which in our case with Harden is that I probably agree that it won't be as high as we hoped before the season started. His a servicable starting PG in the NBA and his salary cap is 8.3 which is about average.

 

2. In terms of Calderon, living in Toronto I watch him a lot, he is a very good PG, however he will be rendered in the same position as Lin as Harden will have the ball more than him, which makes Calderons value dip substantially. He will also command more money than Lin. He will also cripple our salary cap for our hunt for a max player.

 

3. Bledsoe is on his rookie contract, and I haven't seen enough of him to give a fair assesment of his ceiling and skill. I seen a few games and he has high potential but whether he will become a great PG, only time will tell. His starter stats are very similar to Lin in terms of points assists to etc.

Worse fg% but better 3p fg%. Also he had a higher usage rate so his assists should be higher than Lin in those starts. I can't gauge who's potential will be higher but based on what people say, it seems like he will command more than 8.3 million a year when he contracts end, or a trade which I highly doubt the clippers would take Lin in exchange because he is about 5.5million cheaper. And if Paul walks they would want to keep him. A trade would command more thana  couple of outsiders since they are set on PF's and they wouldn't want our talented PF pool.

 

I just don't think there is a lot of players available at the same price or below and I'm not sure what the salary cap implications on lin 5 and 15 contract is for other teams if we trade him that would be a huge deal if it counts as 5 and 15 the next year as oppose to 8.3.

[Mason Khamvilay]

RBF,

 

He hasn't spoken poorly of Royce, but he isn't calling Royce our 3rd best player.

 

Lin is failing your eye-test, but that doesn't mean he is failing Morey's eye-test, and Morey's opinion (and Alexander's opinion) is all that matters.

 

Besides, didn't you say "in Morey I trust"?

[rockets best fan]

@thenit

1. I think I have watched enough of lin to see his ceiling and it's not much better than the player we see now

 

2./3. calderon is better than lin right now and played for 5 mil last year compared to j-lin 8.3 mil cap figure. Bledsoe is light years better.....he may be the next elite pg

 

4.besides the fact lin will average 10 mil a year for the next two years(8.3 cap figure) he needs special conditions to excel......that spells a player who is not a good fit to me

 

@2016

you are correct.....in morey I trust. however even tho I trust morey to make the right moves to make us successful, I don't believe everything that comes out of his mouth like you. remember when he said there would be no activity b4 the trade deadline? I guess you bought that hook line and sinker huh! if you have been watching morey closely you would know he is never going to give away his hand until it's to late for anybody to do anything about it.

[thejohnnygold]

I don't know about this cheaper business...Calderon made $11M+ last year.  I think Bledsoe will make at least $8M per.  Obviously CP3 will be well above that...Who else were you thinking?

[rocketrick]

My preference, not that it really matters in the overall scheme of things over at Rockets Central, is to give Lin this off-season and into the first part of the 2013-2014 regular season to improve his overall game. If by the time of the Trade Deadline in 2014 Lin is underperforming, yes the Rockets probably should jettison him. True, he would have less value then, but I'm not sure his value is significantly higher at this point anyway.

 

I actually expect that Lin will improve his game enough this off season, plus he is so super motivated to becoming one of the better point guards in this league. Will Lin ever be a top-5 or top-10 point guard? Probably not. However, that's true of 85-90% of all players in the NBA.

 

And just exactly who could the Rockets sign off free agency for the same or lesser cost ($8.3 million the next 2 seasons) to replace Lin? I don't see anyone out there. Bledsoe is intriguing but I would be surprised if he can be had for less than Lin's salary, plus whoever signs Bledsoe is probably going to have at least a 4 year commitment. There just isn't anyone else out there that intrigues me.

 

I would like to see the Rockets try to add more depth to the PG position this off season so that we have better options going forward. Although OKC lost Westbrook after game 2 of the Rockets-Thunder series, Lin was also out for the most part of the series after game 2 (in fact, Lin missed the entire second half of game 2 which the Rockets could just as easily had won as they ended up losing). Beverley had his moments but I believe Reggie Jackson and Derek Fisher (ugghhh!) outplayed the Rockets point guard tandem of Beverley and AB. What if Lin had not been injured in game 2, would that have actually swayed the series to a Rockets win? We'll never know but the way Lin was playing the last half of the regular season vs. the first half of the regular season, I have no doubt Lin would have been more productive at key offensive points in the series than Beverley or AB. Although Lin is not as effective defensively as Beverley, Lin does have his moments and has the ability to make key steals. 

[thenit]

@thenit

1. I think I have watched enough of lin to see his ceiling and it's not much better than the player we see now

 

2./3. calderon is better than lin right now and played for 5 mil last year compared to j-lin 8.3 mil cap figure. Bledsoe is light years better.....he may be the next elite pg

 

4.besides the fact lin will average 10 mil a year for the next two years(8.3 cap figure) he needs special conditions to excel......that spells a player who is not a good fit to me

 

@2016

you are correct.....in morey I trust. however even tho I trust morey to make the right moves to make us successful, I don't believe everything that comes out of his mouth like you. remember when he said there would be no activity b4 the trade deadline? I guess you bought that hook line and sinker huh! if you have been watching morey closely you would know he is never going to give away his hand until it's to late for anybody to do anything about it.

 

Most of the things we won't agree on, but factually Calderon made 10 million last year so no it wasnt 5. Living in Toronto we tried to trade him the previous season but no one would take that kind of salary. Pistons jumped on it because it became an expiring. Calderon is what he is, and he is better than Lin IMO at the moment, but he isn't getting better and he will also not be a great fit with Harden because he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Also Calderon is one of the worst defenders and one of the slowest pg because he can't beat his man one on one, and he aint getting younger, will not be able to defend any of the quick PG in the West. He is terrible defensively.

 

In regards of bledsoe, I haven't seen him enough but even if I take your word that he might be the next great PG, why on earth would the Clippers trade him and if he becomes a RFA , I bet you he will command 10+ millions if he is that good. So he won't be an option the next coming years maybe as a RFA in a couple of years. But then the Lin dilemma would been determined.

 

Most players would need certain conditions to excel. Look at Lakers, you would think just with the talent they had they would have been a top 3 seed, but the coachnig system etc didn't work out. Unless you are a superstar player who has the talent to succeed in most teams, you need the right system, coaches, team mates that fits your style to be the best you can be. In regards of Lin post all star I think he made a proper adjustments to improve so imagine if he can do it full time during the off season what those results could be.

 

I rather be safe and sorry and wait another year, because Lin's trade value isn't great and we don't have many options at the moment, that we can afford to see where his ceiling is. We can't just dump him for scraps right just to shed salary which doesn't really work in NBA salary cap era.

[rockets best fan]

I stand corrected on calderon....he did make more than I thought. however Bledsoe makes 2.6 mil next year in the last year of his rookie deal. If the clippers ride it out they can give him a qualifying and then match all bidders for his services. that's unlikely if the clippers resign cp3. they more likely than not will look to move Bledsoe from the very moment they resign cp3. I say t-rob and a first rounder will get that done. b4 the clippers traded to acquire cp3 Bledsoe and Gordon were starting to make some noise in their back court. this kids talents are getting ready to blossom. because he will be in the last year of his rookie deal we will get a chance to watch him b4 committing any real money to him. if we sign howard and pull this trade off........imo that's a team that can beat anybody.

[miketheodio]

lin needs to study some tony parker tape in the off season. he'd greatly improve if he worked on his ball handling.

[Steven]

RBF,

He hasn't spoken poorly of Royce, but he isn't calling Royce our 3rd best player.

Lin is failing your eye-test, but that doesn't mean he is failing Morey's eye-test, and Morey's opinion (and Alexander's opinion) is all that matters.

Besides, didn't you say "in Morey I trust"?

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Morey didn't even watch the games, Billy Bean doesn't. Watching brings emotion, which you can't have if you're going to be an objective decision maker in the NBA. Watching Practice (Yes I'm talking about Practice) is one thing, but watching games is another considering an hour after the game he can have all the stats.

[rockets best fan]

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Morey didn't even watch the games, Billy Bean doesn't. Watching brings emotion, which you can't have if you're going to be an objective decision maker in the NBA. Watching Practice (Yes I'm talking about Practice) is one thing, but watching games is another considering an hour after the game he can have all the stats.

I would be surprised if morey didn't watch every game. sure watching brings emotion, but there are things that watching can tell you that stats don't. emotion is a problem that all GM's must learn to deal with, but that's why they make the big bucks. there are things that happen in a game that don't appear on stat lines. to make effective decisions a GM need all information both good and bad.....all emotion both good and bad. learning how to weigh all the information and emotion is the difference between good GM's and bad GM's

[Mason Khamvilay]

@thenit

1. I think I have watched enough of lin to see his ceiling and it's not much better than the player we see now

 

2./3. calderon is better than lin right now and played for 5 mil last year compared to j-lin 8.3 mil cap figure. Bledsoe is light years better.....he may be the next elite pg

 

4.besides the fact lin will average 10 mil a year for the next two years(8.3 cap figure) he needs special conditions to excel......that spells a player who is not a good fit to me

 

@2016

you are correct.....in morey I trust. however even tho I trust morey to make the right moves to make us successful, I don't believe everything that comes out of his mouth like you. remember when he said there would be no activity b4 the trade deadline? I guess you bought that hook line and sinker huh! if you have been watching morey closely you would know he is never going to give away his hand until it's to late for anybody to do anything about it.

I don't think Morey was lying about that, he said in an interview that he was shocked when he got the call from Sacramento and everything happened really fast. And I don't know how much closer I can watch Morey, any closer and I would be stalking the guy. 

[rockets best fan]

I don't think Morey was lying about that, he said in an interview that he was shocked when he got the call from Sacramento and everything happened really fast. And I don't know how much closer I can watch Morey, any closer and I would be stalking the guy. 

stalking......    I am only using that to show sometimes the best way to get what you really want is to act like you don't want it and morey is a master of this type of maneuver. just because he says something doesn't mean you can draw any conclusions from it.

[rocketrick]

Nobody has mentioned how terrible the NY Knicks point guards were in the series vs. Indiana. Makes one wonder what could have been if Nolan would have ponied up to keep Lin on the roster.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I feel like I follow closely enough to know when he's being genuine, and I think he genuinely likes Lin. You can tell by the tone in his voice that he's actually a little disgusted about the way fans are reacting to Lin's injury. At the end of the day, we all have our own opinions though and that's fine, we don't need to agree.

 

Also, I can't remember who it was, but someone on this thread made a really good post about how we should follow the Spurs example in developing players instead of quickly giving up on them and making desperate trades. I think I voted that post up.

[manmythlegend]

Calderon will be 32 at the start of next season. His best composite season is 12.8 pts and 8.9a per game. He's a good player and certainly more efficient shooting the ball than Lin, but defensively I don't believe him to be better, and there is only downside remaining in his game.

Calderon also didn't come into the league until he was 24 and wasn't a starter until he was 26. These things take time when you're talking about point guards.

As for Bledsoe, the guy is a ridiculous athlete for sure and plus defender. But in the 12 games as starting point guard when CP3 was injured, the Clips went 6-6 while Bledsoe put up 14.8p/5.3a/4.8r/2.6to while shooting 40% overall and 44% from 3 ball (on only 1.3 attempts per game). He's no CP3 granted, but over a fairly long sample with Bledsoe at quarterback, the Clippers were no better than a .500 team. Both Lin and Bledsoe are 3rd year players with Bledsoe only one year younger than Lin. Another thing to consider with Bledsoe is that he doesn't have a lot of experience at PG; he was a SG his lone season at Kentucky and has been a spot starter in his 3 years in the NBA. If Lin won't be excused for his learning curve, neither should Bledsoe.