8 replies to this topic

[Mason Khamvilay]

Iverson has a great story that someone should make a blockbuster movie about, and they should get the director of the Green Mile to direct it. It would be a hit. 15 year old single mother gives birth to a kid in the projects, he grows up hanging around the wrong people and wrongfully gets charged to 15 years in jail at the age of 17. After several months, the governor pulls strings to get Iverson out of jail then Iverson gets recruited to the Hoyas where he tears shit up. 1st round pick of the draft, still involved with the wrong crew while in the league, then meets Larry Brown who becomes like a father figure despite a lot of bumping heads. Then the movie ends with Iverson slaying Goliath in game 1 of the NBA finals. [expletive deleted] awesome. What a movie! However, Iverson's loveable story is part of why it's so easy to overlook the signs he was an overrated NBA player.

Iversons's efficiency was atrocious, everyone knows that, and the "he took bad shots because his team mates sucked" excuse is a weak excuse. Plenty of 1st options have had bad team mates and scored efficiently ie. Kevin Johnson, young Lebron, Orlando TMac, Raptors Vince Carter, Brandon Roy, young Wade ect.

The other thing people like to say is "Iverson took a weak team to the finals", but Iverson couldn't even make the playoffs until the Sixers got Theo Ratliff, Aaron Mckie, Matt Geiger, George Lynch, and Tyrone Hill in via trade (they traded away Jerry Stackhouse who was the 3rd overall pick) and free agency in 1999. The Sixers literally went from bottom of the East to third in the East following those acquisitions, so clearly Iverson's team mates got results despite the misleading box score stats.

The Sixers defense ranked 5th in 99' then 4th in 2000 while their offense ranked 23rd then 26th. Exactly how much is Iverson helping his team if the offense was that bad?

When Theo Ratliff got injured during the 2001 season, the Sixers traded Ratliff and Tony Kukoc for 4-time defensive player of the year Dikembe Mutombo, and the Sixers topped the Eastern conference with 56 wins, then made it all the way to the Finals where they won game 1 in overtime (btw Kobe sucked this game, he got 15 points with 22 shots and 6 turnovers).

He has an inspirational story, phenomenal highlights, and his popularity helped revive the NBA from the loss of millions of viewers following the retirement of Michael Jordan. Give him credit where credit is due, just put that all aside when talking about impact. When you look at all the information, all the context, instead of just looking at the points Iverson scored and the results Sixers got, I think it becomes pretty clear that Iverson was indeed overrated.

[thejohnnygold]

I don't think people rate Iverson that highly...do they?  That being said, I think you're missing the forest for the trees here.  This video is why Iverson was so highly regarded--he was amazing to watch....because it's entertainment.

 

[timetodienow1234567]

Skip and Stephen A said that Iverson was better than Nash. If that's not overrating him, then what is?

I like Iverson but he doesn't even make my list for top 5.

1) Magic
2) Stockton
3) Nash
4) Kidd
5) Thomas

[thejohnnygold]

Skip and Stephen A????  Who cares what they think???  Sorry, when I said "people" I meant people with brains.

 

What is at the crux of 2016's post is what lies underneath his sentiment and viewpoint.  Basketball became popular because it's entertaining as hell.  It got huge, the money got huge, and things started to change.  2016 is looking at Iverson like a GM looks at a draft board.  Iverson, from the fans point of view of being an entertaining basketball player, was phenomenal.

 

Dr. J got the ball rolling.  He was a star not because of his 3 championships (2 in the ABA) nor his solid shooting percentages.  He was a star because of things like this

 

 

 

People don't pay money and take time out of their lives to watch Matt Bonner efficiently knock down three pointers.  People don't pay money to watch Omer Asik be a human wall on defense.  This sport is about entertainment which is why the rules favor the offense and not the defense.  Look at the guys who are considered Legends who came after Dr. J: Magic, Bird, and Jordan.  Why them?  There were plenty of other studs who get recognition from students of the game, but the fans don't care about that.   It wasn't Kareem's efficient scoring that garnered the name, "Showtime".  It was Magic.  It wasn't Parrish, Ainge, McHale, nor Johnson that made people love the Celtics...it was this crazy guy

 

  

 

Look, we can analyze Iverson's numbers until the end of time--there's no surprises there.  No one is going to try and dispute that.  He was a heckuva basketball player and fans of the game love him for that.  People like him make the game watchable.  Nobody wants to sit through a three hour seminar on efficiency aka watching Kyle Korver and JJ Redick take turns shooting three pointers.  No, we came to see this

 

[Losthief]

your missing cousy and the big o (oscar robertson)

[timetodienow1234567]

Oscar is 6th. Cousys in my top 10.

[clydesmoustache]

Skip and Stephen A said that Iverson was better than Nash. If that's not overrating him, then what is?

I like Iverson but he doesn't even make my list for top 5.

1) Magic
2) Stockton
3) Nash
4) Kidd
5) Thomas

Stockton is overrated. Jazz score keepers were padding those stats. It is very difficult comparing players from different eras though so i respect u putting a list out there. Mine without looking at stats basing it only me needing a point guard to play 2 on 2 with.

1.Magic
2.Thomas
3. Big O
4. Kidd
5. Stockton

Maybe I just hate the Jazz because I am wincing even having him in my five.

[thejohnnygold]

Stockton is overrated. Jazz score keepers were padding those stats. It is very difficult comparing players from different eras though so i respect u putting a list out there. Mine without looking at stats basing it only me needing a point guard to play 2 on 2 with.

1.Magic
2.Thomas
3. Big O
4. Kidd
5. Stockton

Maybe I just hate the Jazz because I am wincing even having him in my five.

 

Having watched almost the entirety of Stockton's career I can tell you three things: I have no idea what his stats are.  He is not overrated.  There is a reason Houston fans (and many others) loathe the guy.

 

Obviously, the generation gap is relevant, but any list that has Stockton in the top 5 is fine by me.  That argument is easy to make.

 

The guy played in all but 54 games over a 19 year career (1,504 regular season games plus 182 playoff games).  Holding down a starting job at PG in the NBA for 16 years is not easy to do.

 

As far as padded stats go--I see no evidence of that.  Per basketball-reference.com, his career Home Assist total is 7975 and his Road Assist Total is 7416.  Per game, that breaks down to 11.2/game at home and 10.4/game on the road.  Given that players shoot better/play better at home this makes sense.

[clydesmoustache]

Ugh true! I feel a bit like tom cruise here. "I can't handle the truth!" Please don't tell me there is no santa or that George Washington ever told a lie. I know gary payton also said he was the hardest person to guard. I cant imagine payton giving idle compliments.

Very interesting about the assist differences. I think I read a couple times about padding in Utah but i think once it was from Simmons (shovel of salt). Its funny how you take something as gospel if it validates your own beliefs. "Why do you hate utah?" "Cuz they suck!"