87 replies to this topic

[BrentYen]

IMO, each line up has its pro/cons. ASIK and DH12 will work in some scenarios and will not in some other scenarios. I think that is true for each particular lineups (no matter which 5 NBA players on the court), and it is down to Coaches been creative to exploit possibilities.

 

Personally, given how ASIK can keep DH12 fresh (less likely to be injured) by staying on the court with him or back him up from the bench, that  is already a good enough reason (pros) for keeping Asik on the court with DH12. And that is just on the offensive end, we do need to say how good it may be on the other end of the floor.

Edited by BrentYen, 05 September 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Proponents of Asik + Howard pairing truly pointed out great potential on defensive side. But, you are right that pairing won't be better for offense.

I think it's the other way around. The defense will go up, but the offense will go down more than the defense will go up. 

[timetodienow1234567]

Against teams like Miami, OKC, and NYK that can go small, the defense won't be great either. Does anyone here truly believe that Asik/Howard can guard Melo/KD/James at the 4?

 

So, against top tier opponents, that pairing will fail offensively(for reasons we all know), and will not be great defensively. So while that lineup might work in certain situations in the regular season, we're no longer just trying to make the playoffs. We're championship contenders. Like it or not, Dwight made us a championship or bust team. That's what having 2 top 10 players and a decently deep bench will do for you.

 

If you want to make the point that having Asik to keep Howard rested for the postseason, then great. But it makes me laugh when people talk about the Asik/Howard pairing like it will help in the playoffs.

[Buckko]

The benefits on D outweigh the costs on O. We already have a killer offense for the entire game, so sacrificing it for a few minutes to help our defense will not hurt us but definitely keep the other teams edgy about their lineups they used. I think we should all be overjoyed we can use this for a few minutes. When you have ran up the scoreboard, send out asik and Howard to keep them from making a comeback and crush the morale. 

[Buckko]

FYI this will not be our starting lineup, we will probably use this lineup for about 5 minutes a game so stop complaining that it would destroy our offensive game plans.

[NorEastern]

Asik does not need 6 minutes every game. He just needs it over the entire season. There should be ample opportunity to get him his minutes. McHale is not known as a players coach for nothing.

And Rahat how do I submit something for publication. I do spend serious time on writing articles. http://www.thedreams...nse-last-season

[Buckko]

I believe you have to become an editor.

[NorEastern]

I was just sort of hoping that I could e-mail an article to someone for review.

[thejohnnygold]

I would like to speak for everyone and state this presumption: no one here is advocating that the Rockets always/never play Howard+Asik together (maybe a few "nevers").  It seems to me a lot of confusion occurs because each poster is imagining a different scenario/set of criteria to evaluate the value of this concept.  Every single game will present opportunities for mismatches and this gives us the ability to go that direction if we like.  If it works better than expected then great.  If not, no big deal.  Of course they can't tackle every small ball line-up....but they can destroy some of them--it all comes down to talent and execution.

 

In the meantime, other well-made points have been all but ignored.  FSS's reminder that keeping Asik helps us get Howard to the finish line (playoffs) in a relatively fresh and healthy manner is being severely under-valued.  The full 48 minutes of quality rim protection is also being severely under-valued by quite a few people.  Remember when we were excited to get Dalembert?  I do.  Look how far we have come in such a short time.  After superstars, quality centers are arguably the second hottest commodity in the NBA.  We've got two.  Morey will not sell low and until he gets a godfather offer Asik will be playing here.

[RollingWave]

I think we must agree on some general premise here.

 

1. in the regular season, it's a lot easier to get away with flawed lineups / players

 

2. it's also a lot easier to get away with it when your doing it for 5-10 min instead of 15-20 min.

 

In a league where there' a bunch of starting "shooting" guards that can't shoot (and one such shooting guard got to the WCF btw), to say that you will surely not be able to play a  C disguised as a PF that can't shoot, for a short duration, in the regular season, is pretty over the top.

 

let's see the theoretical here, let's say you put Dwight low post and Asik high post,  the theory on why it won't work is that the guy suppose to be guarding Asik would just go over to double Dwight and Asik can't hit a jumper (enough) to make up for it..... right?

 

Isn't that a bit too simple of a diagram for the complexity of NBA plays? what if it's the other way around? what if you put Howard up high instead? are you going to double Howard at the top and leave Asik open down low? or are you going to let Dwight steamroll to the basket uncontested? it doesn't really matter how many bigs you have down there in that situation.

 

Or even in the first case, so now the completely unguarded Asik sets a pick .... and then what?  you have no one to switch to, you'll either have Harden or Lin driving down in a full steam or  have a wide open off the screen / dribble 3 pointer. that's ideal?

 

 

Spacing is poor gets thrown around without understanding what it means, the theory is basically that they'll give Asik space to take away space from Howard and the dribble penetration of Harden / Lin , the reality is that there is a lot of plausible way for Asik to use said space WITHOUT shooting the ball himself. it's obviously still a question if the team can actually execute, but usually competent teams / players can you know... execute.

Edited by RollingWave, 06 September 2013 - 12:53 AM.

[Buckko]

Agreed.

[timetodienow1234567]

So are the defensive schemes simple? You don't think they would take that into consideration?

[RollingWave]

In the regular season defensive schemes are considerably simpler yes. you don't specifically game plan for opposing's team's 3rd most used lineup that's for sure.

[timetodienow1234567]

My points have been about the playoffs.

[RollingWave]

In the playoffs 

 

A. you would have less trouble sitting a starter for extensive times, see Tiago Splitter in the finals

 

B. matchups are hard to predict, so keeping all options open is a good thing, for example, having Dwight + Asik is potentially really good against Miami given how poorly they deal with size.

 

C. Dwight gets into major foul trouble a lot in the playoffs, making the value of a quality backup much much higher.

[timetodienow1234567]

A points to how the Spurs Couldn't play two bigs together so you hurt your own argument there.

B watch against the Spurs.

C - good point.

[RollingWave]

The Spurs couldn't play both together because in game 4 they inexplicably got out rebounded when Miami went smaller,  the thing with Splitter is that he's actually a terrible rebounder for a center. 

[Buckko]

Splitter is complelty inferior to asik.

[Stephen]

Rahat,
It won't be Lin and Asik for Aldridge.
It would be Asik(to third team) and Jones(or Motie and a min player) and a future First.
Would you give up Asik,Motie,Brooks and a Lottery protected 2014 First for Aldridge as part of a three way deal? I would,but that's without seeing how much Motie has improved over the Summer.
Again,an Aldridge trade is most unlikely,but if it happened next Summer the Rockets could be a hair under Cap,or just over. So the Rockets could give Parsons a huge extension-and still be under Lux Tax and thus able to use the full MLE.

[Buckko]

To make the money work, we would have to trade Lin and then be left without a starter quality PG and a 3rd Allstar reduced to a role player who shoots nothing but the worst shot in basketball and severely deplete our bench and reserves.