32 replies to this topic

[Red94]

New post: Jeremy Lin: Agent of Chaos

[thenit]

I agree that Lin creates havoc like westbrook does, but Lin is a smarter player and doesn't put up a lot of bad shots. His turnovers can be argued that sometimes he takes chances with his passes. A good example is Beverley who doesn't turn the ball over but rarely creates a lot of his assists through his play. Usually his assists are from good ball movement.

 

However Lins ability to keep the dribble alive doesn't fit Mchales philosophy and based on his treatment of Lin when he struggles with turnovers or poor shooting, he gets taken out of the game, even though he would have 6 assists after 1,5 quarters.

 

Lin had 3 good games in a row, and then he had one poor game, and he gets taken out of the game early and suddenly Bev gets the minutes. Mchale has no trust in Lin and doesn't seem to like him as a player, this is just based on the past 6 games including the indiana game tonight.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I think McHale really likes the fact that Beverley brings the high intensity and on-ball defense every night, where as Lin is a little inconsistent with his energy and even looks a little lethargic out there sometimes. Personally I think Beverley compliments Harden better because when Harden is drawing all the defense towards him it's up to whoever is on the weakside to take advantage of that, and as we saw tonight Beverley was doing a much better job of attacking and then finishing with his nifty floater. Lin on the otherhand looked very unsure of himself, he is trying too hard to be unselfish and it did more harm than good tonight.

[thejohnnygold]

I can say this much....I would have pulled Lin one play earlier than he was in the first quarter of tonight's game.  I wish I could diagnose what happened.  I wouldn't be against a change of pace move...maybe split the PG minutes a little closer to 50/50 and let Lin be a Spark plug off the bench with Beverley starting.  McHale can still use his hot hand technique to close the game out.  Doesn't need to be permanent...maybe just shake things up.

[khyberjones]

This article doesn't focus on actual data we have from Lin's 1.5 seasons as a starter. He is not an inconsistent player. He is in fact very consistent and has improved in most key categories. In NY, when he took 10 or more shots, he shot around 45%. This year, he is shooting 47% with 10 or more FGAs. When he takes 14 or more shots, he shoots 51%. The team is 7 games above .500 when he takes 10 or more shots and .500 when he doesn't. He is averaging more assists, fewer turnovers, more rebounds and more steals with a sporadic to low usage rate and a sporadic minutes on the floor. With an improved mid-range and 3 point shot over the last 3 months, Lin may actually be a star level PG right now. You just can't see it every day because of the way McHale uses him.

[Richards]

IMO, This is the best Jeremy LIn article ever written. 

I always thought his play was lot like Westbrook except those "dumb shot" Westbrook threw up. 
Unlike Wesbrook, Lin force the way out instead of trying for "miracle shot", and end up with turnovers.

 

I can see Lin can excel in certain styles but not in McHale. Still, he put up a decent numbers and I respect that.

Lin played aggressive and handled ball more in his "good" games. His productivity was poor in games those Harden has high assists.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Lin would be alot better if he had the ball in his hands 24/7, but that's not an option playing next to Harden who's going to take the ball out of Lin's hands and understandably so. 

[RollingWave]

Lin is improving his 3 shooting a lot this year though, and he has coughed up a lot less TO this year relative to his previous seasons.  

 

but yeah, stacking their minutes more reasonably would probably help

[Mason Khamvilay]

Is anyone else getting sick of all the Lin talk? Lin is such a great modest guy and a hard worker who actually hates getting praise when he doesn't deserve it, I really want to like him, but every time he sits a little too long I see comments all over facebook and crying about. And then we win a game without Harden that was a great team effort and I'm seeing articles and comments praising Lin like it was all him. If McHale demoted Lin to a 6th man role he would probably get assassinated within a week.

[kevingan]

2016, if you want to like Lin, and you note that he is a hard worker and modest guy, why care what the media and other fans say?  Why not continue your appreciation for what he brings to the team--quite a lot, for the most part--and ignore media silliness?  Lin never asked for it, and he's been pretty clear at all times that Linsanity was fun, but it's over, especially for him.  I think that attitude, which he doesn't just express but also clearly acts on, shows great maturity and character.

 

I also like his style of play, so I'm predisposed to like him, allow for his inexperience, and hope for a lot of upside from him.  I thought the Clippers game was interesting for a glimpse of what Morey had in mind before Harden fell into his lap: a team without real stars, but with a winning concept and a hell of a lot of fun to watch.  Just like the Knicks last year, actually, before Melo came back and ruined it.  And when you add Harden, who's really smart and has his head screwed on right (the opposite of Melo, in other words) and possibly one more superstar to that bunch of team players, the potential is nearly limitless.  As your handle says, 2016 Champions!

 

Anyway, I'm hoping for good things from all the Rockets.  And even expecting them (except in the case of poor Royce White...)

[Richards]

Lin might have more followers than any other NBA players. Assume, he has multi-millions followers, some a few hundred thousands might be as crazy as you can imagine. The best way to deal with those is, just ignore them.

 

Yeah I like Lin. Like him as a person more than his game. I even want to say that he might be one of the best guys in NBA.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Kevin, disliking overrated players is normal. It's like how alot of music enthusiasts hate Justin Bieber.

 

Not only is Lin overrated, but Beverley is a better fit next to Harden in that off-guard role, he's alot like Mario Chalmers to Lebron, Fisher was to Kobe, Kerr and Harper were to Jordan, washed up Payton was to Wade, Ainge was to Bird. I'm not saying Harden is as good as any of those superstars, but his role is to initiate the offense in a similar way scoring and passing when he gets doubled/tripled. When you have a guy like that you don't need a "true pg", you need an off-guard who plays his role and doesn't try to take over dribbling around in circles looking for an assist. However, for some crazy reason so many people are crying for Lin to take over more, all this fandom so much more than a player of his caliber deserves. That's why Jeremy Lin is like the NBA's Justin Bieber to me.

 

 

[Richards]

Who fit better with Harden? Bev or Lin? The answer is its depend. 

 

So far this season, Harden and Lin had 12 (20+ points) and  45 (10+ points) games together. Numbers arn't great but at least respectable.

As we all knew, Harden handle the ball more as season progress and Lin spot-up shooting % in first part of the season wasn't great.

 

There were only small sample size for Harden and Bev together.

 

Bev can give more defensive energy while Harden concentrate on offense. But Bev isn't great spot-up shooter either. Again, Bev sample size is small, so tough to make a good conclusion. 

 

But if game demand more offense, pairing Harden and Lin is better. I believe Harden and Lin can co-exist. I think Lin and Harden should handle the ball about 60% and 40% respectively to maximize their output. 

[Mason Khamvilay]

Yeah, all the sample sizes are too small and how much more a player scores is not a good way to determine which player helps the team more. 

 

Just for the hell of it I looked some slightly more advanced stats and this is what I saw:

 

Per 100 possessions Rockets score:

100.2 points with Lin on the floor,

103.2 points with Lin on the bench

 

Per 100 possessions Rockets allow: 

107.4 points with Lin on the floor

108.9 points with Lin on the bench

 

Per 100 possessions Rockets score:

113.2 points with Beverley on the floor

100.9 points with Beverley on the bench

 

Per 100 possessions Rockets allow:

104.9 points with Beverley on the floor

108.3 points with Beverley on the bench

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these stats mean anything. But if I never saw these stats I would have told you that the Rockets have been playing better on both ends while Beverley is on the floor, and alot of this has to do with the fact he doesn't turn the ball over which limits fast-break opportunities for the other team and gives us more possessions, also he grabs offensive rebounds which also gives us more possessions, and his energy is so fantastic it looks contagious. For whatever it's worth, these stats reinforce what I already believed.

[Richards]

I agree those number don't mean much. We don't need scouts and guys like Morey if the do. 

I have looked up the numbers for Harden, Parsons. Asik, Lin, and others non-Rockets player I follow.

 

Comparison is very tough especially comparing starters and bench. And players from different teams.

Sometime bench players had better numbers since they played against other bench players.

 

That is why I always hesitate to use these numbers. Another example is your assist will be up if you are feeding LeBron and Durant.

[kevingan]

"disliking overrated players is normal."

 

Well, 2016, I can't agree with you about what's "normal"--we all have different definitions of the norm, depending on our parents and the community we grew up in.  

 

Where I come from, it's neither normal nor productive to get upset about mass opinion: I was taught to form my own opinions regardless of what majorities of others thought.   People think a lot of things, many of them ill-informed, many of them prejudiced, many of them at an early stage of development.  If these thoughts don't harm others--and that's practically the definition of fans' thoughts, which have no practical effect whatsoever!--then let people experience what they experience, and feel what they feel.  

 

And if they do want to debate, as on a forum like this, fine, but let it be done without heat (not the same as "ardor") or putdowns.  I don't know if you meant the comparison between Lin and Justin Bieber as a putdown, but it seems like one.  Why insult Jeremy Lin (who is someone, I remind you, you started by saying you wanted to like!) when he is a productive member of this team, one who works hard and is trying to find his way, just like every other member?  

 

In any case, the analogy is inexact: as we are learning daily, Justin Bieber's character is nothing like Lin's, and Lin's basketball fundamentals are stronger than Bieber's musicianship: ask Clyde Frazier, Tony Parker, Mike D'Antoni, or Daryl Morey.  The only thing they share is an overenthusiastic fan base: but you can hardly blame Lin for his, since he does nothing to encourage them--unlike Bieber, who fans their ardor every chance he gets.

 

In other words, prefer Beverly all you like--he's great!--but don't blame Lin for people he can't control.  That can't be fair to him!  Or so it seems to me, as someone who likes this team and wants all of them to succeed together.  

[pharmag]

I actually posted on another topic that if Beverly and Lin continue to progress as expected, I think the two of them and Harden would make an excellent 3-guard rotation.  In fact, I think Lin fits the vein of a 6th man player ala Ginobli or Harden (last year).  Basically, all 3 of them could grow to co-exist, each getting at least 30 minutes a night on average, with Lin taking minutes at both PG and SG.  

[Mason Khamvilay]

"disliking overrated players is normal."

 

Well, 2016, I can't agree with you about what's "normal"--we all have different definitions of the norm, depending on our parents and the community we grew up in.  

 

Where I come from, it's neither normal nor productive to get upset about mass opinion: I was taught to form my own opinions regardless of what majorities of others thought.   People think a lot of things, many of them ill-informed, many of them prejudiced, many of them at an early stage of development.  If these thoughts don't harm others--and that's practically the definition of fans' thoughts, which have no practical effect whatsoever!--then let people experience what they experience, and feel what they feel.  

 

And if they do want to debate, as on a forum like this, fine, but let it be done without heat (not the same as "ardor") or putdowns.  I don't know if you meant the comparison between Lin and Justin Bieber as a putdown, but it seems like one.  Why insult Jeremy Lin (who is someone, I remind you, you started by saying you wanted to like!) when he is a productive member of this team, one who works hard and is trying to find his way, just like every other member?  

 

In any case, the analogy is inexact: as we are learning daily, Justin Bieber's character is nothing like Lin's, and Lin's basketball fundamentals are stronger than Bieber's musicianship: ask Clyde Frazier, Tony Parker, Mike D'Antoni, or Daryl Morey.  The only thing they share is an overenthusiastic fan base: but you can hardly blame Lin for his, since he does nothing to encourage them--unlike Bieber, who fans their ardor every chance he gets.

 

In other words, prefer Beverly all you like--he's great!--but don't blame Lin for people he can't control.  That can't be fair to him!  Or so it seems to me, as someone who likes this team and wants all of them to succeed together.  

 

I don't hate Lin or Justin Bieber, I merely think they are both far more popular than they deserve (hence the comparison). Lets say for example Michael Jordan's a 10 from a basketball standpoint and the worst basketball player in the league is a 0, Jordan deserves a level of popularity that is befitting of a player who is a 10 while the player who is a 0 deserves a popularity befitting of a 0. However, Lin and Bieber or both 5's or 6's but they have the popularity of a 10. It's an injustice to the 5's and 6's who get treated like 5's and 6's. Does that make sense?

 

Just about every single excessively famous person will have people who believe the same thing about them, and even if they don't dislike the person they will dislike the fact they are more popular than they deserve, therefore I consider my stance normal even though it may seem illogical. What is normal and what is logical are not mutually exclusive.

[kevingan]

LORD POLONIUS 

My lord, I will use them according to their desert.

HAMLET 

God's bodykins, man, much better: use every man
after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?
Use them after your own honour and dignity: the less
they deserve, the more merit is in your bounty.

 

(Amen!)

[Mason Khamvilay]

Great reference, but human nature isn't based off Hamlet's ideals. 

 

Seeing as you have a strong sense of what is and isn't ideal let me ask you this; considering the fact Lin and Beverley have practically been equally effective in helping the team win games (actually the Rockets have been playing slightly better with Beverley on the floor but lets not argue about the minor details), is it fair that it's the strong consensus Lin deserves the minutes more than Beverley? Idealistically, shouldn't the consensus be that they get a 50/50 timeshare?