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@  slick shoes : (27 May 2016 - 12:38 PM) I doubt it. He is what he is at this point IMO. 'Antoni won't make him a better player.
@  majik19 : (26 May 2016 - 11:28 PM) i wonder if Harden missing all NBA will motivate him to play some defense... (he deserved at least 3rd team based on offense alone).
@  slick shoes : (26 May 2016 - 09:50 PM) anyone coming with me to the Spurs board?
@  majik19 : (26 May 2016 - 09:25 PM) Calvin Watkins just reported D'Antoni as coach... ugh.
@  slick shoes : (23 May 2016 - 12:24 PM) The worst part about Green is that he tries to play that nice guy role à la Reggie Miller.
@  Mario Peña : (23 May 2016 - 02:00 AM) Im quite pleased the Thunder are decimating the Warriors.
@  Mario Peña : (23 May 2016 - 12:54 AM) I cannot stand Draymond Green. I don't like him in any way. That dude is cheap and he's one of the main reasons I really don't like the Warriors.
@  majik19 : (21 May 2016 - 05:28 PM) no need to rush it now - only one other opening to compete with, and no first round draft pick to get input on.
@  Mario Peña : (21 May 2016 - 02:19 PM) SteinyMo reporting James Borrego from Pop's bench is now getting a look. Wow just wow.
@  majik19 : (20 May 2016 - 09:32 PM) I saw that report. Silas seems like a swing for the fences move, but isn't he exactly like JBB? Harden didn't respond to JBB, why would he respond to another longtime coach's son?
@  Mario Peña : (20 May 2016 - 07:29 PM) So Watkins is reporting its between D'Antoni and Silas.
@  Mario Peña : (20 May 2016 - 06:30 PM) In retrospect some of what has happened over the last few years going back to Lin, McHale and maybe a few other things seem to have Alexander's fingerprints on them and even if true to an extant that's troubling to me. Just when I thought things couldn't be worse, oh well.
@  thejohnnygold : (20 May 2016 - 04:58 PM) If so, this site will become more of a support group than a fan board.
@  slick shoes : (20 May 2016 - 03:14 PM) Is Les becoming the next Jerry Jones? Yikes...
@  majik19 : (20 May 2016 - 02:59 PM) oh i was half-joking haha.
@  slick shoes : (20 May 2016 - 12:21 PM) @majik19 Why screw the team long term with a decision that only affects them THIS season? I don't get it. If I was Morey and my boss kept over ruling my decisions, I'd give some serious consideration to stepping down.
@  majik19 : (20 May 2016 - 05:12 AM) @slickshoes - maybe thats why theyre considering D'Antoni - just want to make sure Dwight opts out.
@  thejohnnygold : (19 May 2016 - 04:38 PM) I think I have a bias against Rambis from his playing days. The thought of him being our coach just feels wrong...
@  slick shoes : (19 May 2016 - 03:11 AM) Does this mean Rambis is available?!
@  Mario Peña : (19 May 2016 - 03:05 AM) Hornacek goes to the Knicks.

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For the last time, a midrange game is not important


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 18 March 2015 - 12:52 AM

    New post: For the last time, a midrange game is not important
    By: Richard Li

    Are you one of those people who bemoans the death of the midrange game? Do you find yourself nodding your head when you hear, "You have to guard him, because he can hit that 16 foot jump shot?" Are you constantly yelling at the TV when your team doesn't guard the opposing stretch 4 outside the paint? If so, this piece is for you.

     

    I know I've said this countless times before, but we are so much smarter now. It's not just about what data we collect, it's also about how we use data to think about basketball. Cliches that used to be sacrosanct are now consistently criticized. Some have legitimately been debunked. Some are well on their way to the same graveyard. Curmudgeons who grumble about how the game is not the same (ahem, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, or anyone else named Charles) are basically old men complaining about how they didn't need cell phones when they were growing up. Nostalgia is adorable. Unimaginably greater communication capacity is better.

     

    Just to prove how much smarter we are now, and what that increased intelligence means, I offer this example. That Larry Bird guy. He was really good. He shot threes like whoa and is considered one of the best shooters ever. Are you ready for me to tell you how many three point shots Bird attempted per game? It's 1.9. Per 36 minutes he attempted 1.8. Per 100 possessions he attempted 2.4. In contrast, Patrick Beverley, that Patrick Beverley, attempts 4.4 threes per game this season. He attempts 5.8 per 36 minutes, and 8.0 every 100 possessions.

     

    The reason for this disparity, of course, is we now know just how important three pointers are. They're so important that even Patrick Beverley, who might as good at basketball as Bird's left index finger, shoots them 3.5x more than Bird. Put it this way, if Larry Bird were coming into the league right now, do you think he would shoot fewer than two three pointers per game? It would be like Kyle Korver shooting 10x more two pointers and three pointers. We now know that would be an awfully inefficient distribution of possessions.

     

    Enough historical blabbering, let's drive a sword into the heart of this dying midrange dinosaur once and for all. Take a look at this table.

     

    [table id=1 /]

     

    According to nbasavant.com, over the past five seasons there have been 165,137 attempted midrange shots (any two point shot between 16-24 feet away from the basket). The FG% on those shots is 40.4. Over the same period of time, there have been 223,707 three point shots attempted. The FG% on those shots is 35.8%. The effective FG% of those shots, or the equivalent FG% when accounting for the fact that 3 > 2 (simply multiplying the FG% by 1.5), is 53.6%. In other words, the average three point shot is A LOT BETTER than the average midrange shot. And it's not even close.

     

    But what about the WIDE OPEN midrange shot? Those ones that opposing big men can make that, in theory, force defending big men to leave the paint in order to respect their midrange games? Over the past five seasons, the FG% on wide open (defined as the closest defender being at least 6 feet away) midrange shots is 43.3%. This means that the average three point shot is still much more efficient than a wide open midrange shot. Just to beat this dinosaur after it's already dead, here's the complete breakdown. Defended shots are considered a shot when the closest defender is less than four feet away.

     

    [table id=2 /]

     

    Not only is a wide open midrange shot not that great (43.3%?), but even a defended three point shot is more efficient than a wide open midrange shot (eFG% of 45.5 vs 43.3). This addresses a somewhat common basketball scenario--a defender is rushing at a shooter behind the three point line and the shooter has the option of taking the shot or pump faking to send the defender into the air, then dribbling in a few steps and taking an uncontested midrange shot. In this situation, the player should actually take the contested three point shot instead of the uncontested midrange shot. The defender, on the other hand, should do everything he can to run the shooter off the three point line, even if it means flying three rows into the stands. Yes, a three point shot is that important, and a midrange shot is that unimportant.

     

    Also worth noting is that a greater percentage of three point attempts are wide open than midrange shots (17.2% vs 10.1%). That's probably just due to the fact that three point shots are farther away from the basket, and therefore opposing defenders. But it further supports just how inadvisable midrange shots are. Players essentially choose between an inherently less efficient and more likely to be defended shot and an inherently more efficient and less likely to be defended shot. Not exactly brain surgery.

     

    There are two caveats to the ineptitude of the midrange game. One is select players who have a larger than average gap between their their defended 3pFG eFG% and their wide open midrange eFG%. Dirk Nowitzki, for example, shoots 33.6% on defended 3PFGAs, or a roughly 50% eFG%. All things considered, that's actually pretty good. His FG% on wide open midrange shots, however, is 61%. Since players who shoot long two point shots tend to be good at shooting three point shots, there aren't too many players that fit this description.

     

    There are also players who alter the script slightly. They are very proficient at midrange shots, but don't extend themselves to the three point line. David West leads this very very small group of players (in fact, it might just be him). West shoots 59% on wide open midrange shots, certainly good enough that he warrants defending in that area, even if it means vacating space in the paint. Other players who might be in this group (the only ones) are Pau Gasol and Al Horford, who shoot 53% and 52% on wide open midrange shots. It is debatable, however, if vacating paint space (potentially leading to a very efficient shot) is worth defending a 52%-53% scoring opportunity. Anyone else, despite his reputation or salary, does not shoot well enough to merit guarding.


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    #2 oldtimey

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      Posted 18 March 2015 - 03:22 AM

      hi richard

       

      imagine this scenario, which happens quite often in the playoffs:

       

      tie game, less than 24 seconds left on shot clock, need a bucket

      or

      down by 1 need a bucket

      or

      down by 2 need a bucket

       

      at this point forget about eFG...you need 2 points.

       

      would you rather take a midrange shot at 41% FG rate? or a 3pt shot at 35%?

       

      this is why a midrange game is important. without a midrange threat, a team is limited to trying to get into the paint or a lowest of low percentage 3pt shot. since the team has NO midrange game, opposing teams can crowd paint and takeaway 3pt shot.

       

      just sayin. midrange isnt "dumb" - while over the course of 48 minutes you will score more by jacking up more threes, there will ALWAYS be situations where a midrange shot is PREFERABLE to any other shot - and if a team HAS NO midrange threat, it is at a discernable disadvantage.


      Edited by oldtimey, 18 March 2015 - 03:23 AM.

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      #3 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 18 March 2015 - 01:33 PM

      Oldtimey, I 100% agree and welcome to the forums.

       

      I will give Richard credit for differentiating between mid-range "game" and mid-range "shots".  I read his article in that light because, like you, I believe mid-range shots are still 100% relevant in the NBA game no matter how many percentages you calculate.  Apparently, this likens us to curmudgeons and brutes--people who are either too stubborn to accept what is known or too stupid to even see it.  I do appreciate those sorts of qualifiers in a presented argument--it's the stuff cults are made of.

       

      The next time James Harden sinks a crunch-time, step-back, jumper to put us ahead I hope no one cheers.  Instead, I hope people groan, pull out their calculators, and condemn him for leaving a potential .2356 points on the floor.  They will shout, "Trust the process, James!", and gaze at their framed picture of Morey that sits above the mantle smirking back at them approving of their disapproval.

       

      usa-today-8115688.0.jpg

       

      As we all know sometimes basketball is not a game of averages.  It is a singular point in space--a moment in time.  Whenever I am coaching someone and we get to talking about "winning" and what it takes I always fall back on the same cliche:

       

      "It's not whether or not you can do it.  It's whether or not you can do it right now."

       

      The best shot is the one that goes in.  While it is important to trust the process, the studies, and the numbers it is also important to trust the players.  As much as anything, I have always felt this is a big part of why McHale was hand-picked to be our coach.  He is the antithesis of Moreyball.  They need him to retain the human element.  He is the Yin to analytics' Yang.  He's the perfect coach to say, "Screw the numbers!  James, go make a play for us.  Let's win this thing right now".

       

      Perhaps that is the thing.  For "average" NBA players, living and dying with what the analytics say makes sense.  However, burdening a super-star player with such things would be like C3-PO telling a Jedi how to wield their light saber.  It's the engineer telling the pilot how to fly or the racer how to drive.  There is a reason each has risen to their station in life.

       

      Imagine James Harden walking into Morey's war room and telling them they're doing it wrong.

       

      "Yeah, guys.  These ridge regressions and Bayesian techniques are primitive yet incredibly pedantic.  Conventional statistical methods have a very serious flaw. They routinely miss differences among groups or associations among variables that are detected by more modern techniques, even under very small departures from normality. Hundreds of journal articles have described the reasons standard techniques can be unsatisfactory, but simple, intuitive explanations are generally unavailable. Situations arise where even highly nonsignificant results become significant when analyzed with more modern methods.  If you guys could get to work on that that'd be greeeeeeeaaaaaat."  (walks back to practice court to work on mid-range game) (link to stolen words)

       

      James-Harden-Euro-Step-Summer-is-Serious

      :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 


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      #4 Chichos

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        Posted 18 March 2015 - 02:14 PM

        hi richard

         

        imagine this scenario, which happens quite often in the playoffs:

         

        tie game, less than 24 seconds left on shot clock, need a bucket

        or

        down by 1 need a bucket

        or

        down by 2 need a bucket

         

        at this point forget about eFG...you need 2 points.

         

        would you rather take a midrange shot at 41% FG rate? or a 3pt shot at 35%?

         

        this is why a midrange game is important. without a midrange threat, a team is limited to trying to get into the paint or a lowest of low percentage 3pt shot. since the team has NO midrange game, opposing teams can crowd paint and takeaway 3pt shot.

         

        just sayin. midrange isnt "dumb" - while over the course of 48 minutes you will score more by jacking up more threes, there will ALWAYS be situations where a midrange shot is PREFERABLE to any other shot - and if a team HAS NO midrange threat, it is at a discernable disadvantage.

        I think Li is talking about the overall offensive attack without specific mention of time left on the clock.  If there are.6 seconds left and you have the ball at the elbow down by 2 you shoot.  Math agrees with you there.  But over the course of the game the extra 1-2 points you scored by not shooting mid range jumpers means you are less likely to be down by two at the end of the game.  

         

        I think the more interesting point is the gravity that long two point specialists create should actually be minimized.  If there are only threeish mid range gunners that actually generate enough offense to justify moving a defender away from the paint; why do so many NBA teams guard the shot?  It seems like you want that shot to go up and then immediately box out the shooter.  Maybe the highlights of LMA going supernova from last years playoffs are still circulating in the scouting reports.


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        #5 jz13

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          Posted 18 March 2015 - 05:58 PM

          Really interesting read, and I agree with most of it.  But I also think you are falling into a very common analytics trap.  You assume you are asking the right question.  The question you're asking, as i understand it, is what is the more efficient SHOT out of contested and uncontested threes and midrange?  The answer to that is clearly pretty much any type of 3.  But there is a more important question.  What distribution of shots provides the most efficient OFFENSE or overall scoring?  The distinction between the best shot and the best offense is critically important.

           

          ESPN (I believe it was ESPN, but i can't for the life of me find the article) did an analysis on whether there was a point in which limiting your offense to 3's, paint, and FT actually made the overall offense less efficient.  What they found is after a certain point, there appeared to be a negative correlation to avoiding the dreaded long two at all costs.  Or put another way, the Warriors and Mavs had the most efficient offenses by far, but took a significantly higher percentage of long 2's than the Rockets.  The Rockets are merely in the middle of the pack in terms of offensive efficiency despite their strict adherence to their paint, 3's and FT philosophy.  

           

          Two observations about this:

           

          1) The person taking the shots matters more than anything.  Steph Curry taking a contested long two is probably more efficient than Beverly taking a wide open 3.  So you may argue, if Curry just eliminated all those long two's he'd be even more efficient.  Perhaps, but we don't have numbers to back that up, and the fact that he's possibly the most efficient volume offensive player in history suggests he might have the balance just right.  His long 2's also open up the offense for his teammates.

           

          2) ESPN's analysis passes the gut test.  If a good defensive team knows it only ever has to guard the paint and 3 point line, spacing will become a nightmare over the course of a game.  However, if a team can hit enough midrange two's, it forces the defense to guard a lot more space which will inevitably lead to a higher paint and 3 point efficiency.

           

          The bottom line is that focusing too much on individual statistics can often lead to missing the bigger picture.  That doesn't mean analytics isn't really really important - it is - but we should aware of it's limitations.


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          #6 Losthief

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          Posted 18 March 2015 - 08:00 PM

          I agree with what you guys have said here. I see it a bit like chess and checkers. Simply following the 3pt, layups, FT formula is like playing checkers with a winning, yet simple strategy and works really well. But applying those same simple type strategies used in checkers to a chess game usually doesn't work as well. Just like that, I think open long 2s when executed properly can be a long-game type of strategy to setup a latter action for an open 3 on a flare screen or layup on a backcut. So, although the individual shot of the long 2 is inefficient the net effect of generating that open shot is actually the open long 2, plus an open 3, and an open layup. This net effect seems more efficient than 3 contested 3s. Just a postulation about using analytics to focus on the individual moment instead of the whole picture/series of moves/countermoves.


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          LoSTHieF

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          #7 Jatman20

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            Posted 19 March 2015 - 12:39 AM

            I believe Barkley sees it as 3 shooting zones (near rim/ mid-range/3 point shot).....the Playoffs are notorious for packing the paint and taking away the drive to the rim/ near rim shot. Thus leaving the Rockets with just 3 pointers and free throws (harder for non stars to draw fouls in the playoffs). Barkley knows the saying, "live by the sword, die by the sword." Or in basketball, "live by the 3 pointer, die by the 3 pointer." I have seen Harden, Brewer, TJ, Jet, Ariza, DMo, JSmoove shoot enough mid-range shots (& make them) to satisfy my worries.

            * Note FT's for "role players"and fast breaks points in the playoffs tend to decrease (IMHO....I don't have the facts to back it up)......but I believe rebounding and TO's may be the Rockets undoing if they go down. I would like more drives to the rim earlier in the game when 3's aren't falling; rather than allowing the opposing team to build a 20 point lead (as we trade missed 3 pointers for many trips and the other team strings about 3 or 4 trips of made 2 point baskets). Shooting free throws tends to help shooters build confidence and get some of their touch as they size up the rim from the FT line........(better as the game is in play vs pre game shoot-a-round). I noticed Ariza driving more recently; it has helped his 3 point shooting...IMO.

            Barkley will always hate the Rockets for his own personal reasons.....telecasters are suppose to be un-biased; but some of them are unprofessional.

            Edited by Jatman20, 19 March 2015 - 12:42 AM.

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            #8 Jatman20

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              Posted 19 March 2015 - 03:49 AM

              In other words...please don't give me regular season stats. I would like to know points in the paint/ restricted area, mid-range and 3 point FGA/FGM during the playoffs. For ex: Fast break points during the season are different than playoffs.....as teams drop more players back to prevent "so many" easy baskets during the playoffs. Playoffs are a different animal. I'm curious to find out if the numbers change?
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              #9 majik19

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                Posted 19 March 2015 - 02:24 PM

                Having a mid-range game is still important. Maybe you don't want to take those shots, but if you can demonstrate that you can make those shots, then that gives the defenders more floor to defend. Any time the defenders have another option to think about, it gives the offensive player something to think about.

                 

                I do think it is interesting that the data seems to show that taking the 3 where the guy is running out at you is better than taking two steps in and shooting an uncontested midrange shot. 

                 

                Another way I'd like to look at the data is in 1-on-1 situations. I'm imagining Harden at the end of the game, ball in his hands, defender in his shirt. Is it better for him to create just a bit of space and shoot the 3, or drive toward the basket, forcing the defender to back pedal, then shoot the step back shot? (obviously time left and point lead/deficit are important, but ignoring those factors). I think I remember Rahat posting an article saying Harden was over 50% on step-back midrange jumpers, which would mean the point expectancy is probably higher with him shooting stepback midrange shots. 


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                #10 Under estimated champion

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                  Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:01 AM

                  I think an open shot is the best shot, and it is easier to get open 3's than it is to get open midrange shots. This argument over the 3pt shot and midrange shot is silly.
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                  #11 Under estimated champion

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                    Posted 20 March 2015 - 05:02 AM

                    Both shots have their place in the flow of the offense.
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