155 replies to this topic

[rockets best fan]

I think we are falling into over valuing Asik here, especially without regards to our own situation .

 

McLemore + a first from a bad team +Thompson is a package you trade for all stars, even super stars.

 

Amir Johnson i'm super high on because he's consistently super high on the RAPM list,  guys that fly under the radar like that seem to be the ideal Morey target.  to illustrate, as of today, the Raptors are -0.5 as a team, but Amir's +/- per 48 is 3.8 . he has very very consistently in the last 3-4 year made his team so much better when he's on the floor on both ends. while not being flashy about it (though he can throw it down with the best of them.) while having and expanding range game .

 

The only thing you don't like about Amir is that he fouls a bit too much (mainly because he subscribe to the Tim Duncan school of screening, a huge reason why he's so effective.), but we have Jones to cover for that which help a lot .

I don't think we overvaluing  Asik..........think of it this way........what is the difference between Tyson Chandler and Asik. Asik is a better rebounder, both protect the paint, both have limited offensive game even though Chandler can catch and finish better, It's like we're trying to trade Chandler on a better contract. that's how valuable Asik is. Chandler makes 14 mil this year and 14.5 next year. Asik makes 5 this year and 15 next year. we are offering Chandler's production for the next 2 years at a savings of 8.5 mil in Asik. should that be cheap?..............not in my opinion.

 

as for Amir............he is flunking the most important test..........THE EYE TEST. quote all the RAPM, +/-, or any other stat, but he is a downgrade when compared to T-Jones. he doesn't help our problem. he only adds to glut of PF's vying for PT. he appears to be the only player being overvalued here

[RollingWave]

I don't think we overvaluing  Asik..........think of it this way........what is the difference between Tyson Chandler and Asik. Asik is a better rebounder, both protect the paint, both have limited offensive game even though Chandler can catch and finish better, It's like we're trying to trade Chandler on a better contract. that's how valuable Asik is. Chandler makes 14 mil this year and 14.5 next year. Asik makes 5 this year and 15 next year. we are offering Chandler's production for the next 2 years at a savings of 8.5 mil in Asik. should that be cheap?..............not in my opinion.

 

as for Amir............he is flunking the most important test..........THE EYE TEST. quote all the RAPM, +/-, or any other stat, but he is a downgrade when compared to T-Jones. he doesn't help our problem. he only adds to glut of PF's vying for PT. he appears to be the only player being overvalued here

I think your going to be mightily disappointed when we revisit this in a month or so Mr. Pro Scout.

[thenit]

Amir ism underrated in Toronto and most of the u,s also undertakes his except houston fans it seems who overrates him. I live in toronto watch almost all of the raptors game for the past few years. He is a poor man LMA with less range about the same rebounding, more hustle. He can't really shoot the 3 and doesn't take many. He takes shots that we deem ineffective 18footers. He is a good defender but nothing special. He won't get much better either. I think we can get more for Asik than Amir. And tjones is effectively brings what Amir does, with better upside, not as good yet, but he is cheaper and with more potential. T jones might be better next season already so it doesn't make any sense trading him for Amir in a package.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Amir is a pretty good defender, and when he hustles he hustles smart, I would call him a poor man's Millsap--very underrated. 

[Fury]

What is the highest draft pick that we could realistically get for Asik? If Jones, D-Mo, and Smith can hold down the backup center position by committee, then why not fish for an impact player in next year's draft?

[timetodienow1234567]

Low playoff so high teens or low 20s. I doubt picks get traded this year. Jrue would NOT be worth the sixth pick this year, for example.

[rockets best fan]

I think your going to be mightily disappointed when we revisit this in a month or so Mr. Pro Scout.

I doubt it, however looking forward to it

[rockets best fan]

Amir ism underrated in Toronto and most of the u,s also undertakes his except houston fans it seems who overrates him. I live in toronto watch almost all of the raptors game for the past few years. He is a poor man LMA with less range about the same rebounding, more hustle. He can't really shoot the 3 and doesn't take many. He takes shots that we deem ineffective 18footers. He is a good defender but nothing special. He won't get much better either. I think we can get more for Asik than Amir. And tjones is effectively brings what Amir does, with better upside, not as good yet, but he is cheaper and with more potential. T jones might be better next season already so it doesn't make any sense trading him for Amir in a package.

now that seems like a fair appraisal of Amir's talent. I'm not saying that the guy doesn't have talent. I saying he is a duplication of what we already have, therefore his impact is minimal

[Buckko]

We can get a lottery for asik.

[Chichos]

We can get Anderson Verajao and probably no one better.  As for the pick we might be able to trade into the mid teens with an Asik trade, but we would have to take on long term salary to do it.

[Cooper]

We can get a lottery for asik.

Not this year

[Buckko]

Many low level picks this year are still not worth asik so I disagree.

[Losthief]

i think it depends on who were trading to

 

aka, los angeles looking to get a Center if they fall down the lottery, with kobe aging, would probably take the bird in hand (asik) over a potential (draft pick outside the top 5 (which i think everyone there will keep)).

 

but a team like phoniex building for the future, would conversely value the pick and potential higher than a 27 year old starting center.

 

Ideally i think if we go the draft pick route, i think were looking at 5-10 possible range with a young asset and a veteran big man salary match as the absolute max we could get. The danger is, Asik will weaken whatever pick we do trade for, so theres that.

 

So bottom teams in the riggin for wiggins: Sixers, Charlotte, Utah, Boston, Phoenix is how i feel those will shake out (i know some of those teams are higher right now, but its small sample size territory) are out as top 5 pick getters, thus won't trade it. 

 

So that leaves for possible lottery picks: (im guessing here, but its how i think it'll roughly shake out in no particular order)

Cleveland: Varajeo and kersev and a pick enough for Asik?

Sacramento: Outlined before/above

Denver: nothing to get unless there willing to give up gallanari (which i doubt) and there invested in mcgee.

New Orleans: Ryan Anderson's interesting, but were discussing picks here, which they think asik is less than Anderson, so no pick possible

Washington: Gortat for Omer? I doubt they throw a pick into that, but maybe they'd throw Martell Webster and Gortat for Omer and Brewer???, but again no pick.

Lakers: Lakers are out imho, unless we want Jordan Hill back, they have no picks/assets we really want.

 

Hence where my Sacramento trade came from. They have a logjam at the 4/5 (so jason thompson is gettable, he only plays like 20 min a game). Ben Mclamore is the young assest, who so far isn't lighting it up, and we make this trade the pick probably falls in the late lottery via Asik's help to improve Sacremento, so maybe 8th-12th, which i think might be gettable. But again, most teams don't have the combination of the need for a C, a decent back-up C possibility, and a young asset or top draft pick to make a Omer trade a good one for us.

 

I'd rather go the route of packaging Omer with another assest (tjones, lin, bev, parsons,Sergio Lhull, draft picks, etc etc) for a Star type player (at any of the pg, sf, or pf spots) or packaging Omer to another playoff type contender for a rangy starting-level PF and a solid back up Center without giving up other assets. (along the lines of millsap swap, or such).

 

A possible back up Center to trade for separately is Myers Lenoard in Portland, he has fallen to 3rd on the depth chart behind Freeland and could be gettable for one of our assets (dmo maybe?) or a late 1st early 2nd round pick plus cash? Depends on how buried he is long term.

Edited by Losthief, 20 November 2013 - 07:22 AM.

[rockets best fan]

@Losthief

first.............you would actually give up something for Meyers Leonard? anything more than a third round draft pick in 2025 would be overpaying

I don't believe the Rockets are likely to go the draft pick route and even if they do it will only be to flip it for something more meaningful later. we are in win now mode. we don't have time to develop more rookies. we need players who can help us win NOW. I agree with you that the Rockets may look to move more than just Asik if the right deal materializes. I also Agree with you in addressing backup center........just not with Leonard. a deal with SAC is possible. but it's going to take more than Thompson to get Asik from us. more than likely the Rockets will trade Asik to the eastern conference unless they get a deal that just blows them out of the water from western teams. also you can bet the farm they won't trade him to a western contender without a ridiculous offer being on the table. as more teams decided there directions for the season those that still believe they can contend for a playoff spot will be willing to offer more for Asik if they believe that will put them over the hump. that's the moment Morey is waiting for

[Losthief]

@Losthief

first.............you would actually give up something for Meyers Leonard? anything more than a third round draft pick in 2025 would be overpaying

I don't believe the Rockets are likely to go the draft pick route and even if they do it will only be to flip it for something more meaningful later. we are in win now mode. we don't have time to develop more rookies. we need players who can help us win NOW. I agree with you that the Rockets may look to move more than just Asik if the right deal materializes. I also Agree with you in addressing backup center........just not with Leonard. a deal with SAC is possible. but it's going to take more than Thompson to get Asik from us. more than likely the Rockets will trade Asik to the eastern conference unless they get a deal that just blows them out of the water from western teams. also you can bet the farm they won't trade him to a western contender without a ridiculous offer being on the table. as more teams decided there directions for the season those that still believe they can contend for a playoff spot will be willing to offer more for Asik if they believe that will put them over the hump. that's the moment Morey is waiting for

 

i agree, someone else brought up the draft pick thingy, i was just putting the thoughts behind it.

 

Lenard is a 7'1 21 yr old who moves fluidly, so yeah..i'd give something up to him, nothing great mind you, but something in 2nd round would be a steal. Worst case scenario he turns into a 15 min. back-up center, 7'1 guys who don't trip over there own feet are hard to find imo but i definitely could be overvaluing him, i don't watch alot of portland bball.

 

But to your impact player/win now comment, hopefully so, thats my hope anyways. I do believe the longer we wait the better the haul would be, cause of that desperation, though i think morey has no qualms about trading inter-conference even with contenders, i relaly believe he looks at it more like rockets versus league as the whole, aka if your not 1st your last (ricky bobby!) but yeah i hope your right and we get a guy for now too. I do like your idea of trading asik as a precursor to the next trade via a good draft pick...that opens possibilities, good call.

Edited by Losthief, 20 November 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[rockets best fan]

@Losthief

I agree 7 footers who don't trip over their own feet are rare and this kid is still young. sometimes it takes longer for  the light to come on with 7 footers, but he appears too slow to me........maybe I'm just to hard on the kid. as for trading to western contenders..........I just don't see it. OKC could really use Asik...............so could GSW. you are talking about two teams that if they get a consistent interior presence will take the next step in their evolution. I think in order for one of these two teams to lure Asik away from us something as in " the deal you can't refuse" would have to be on the table. OKC doesn't have these pieces, but GSW do. if they approached Morey with a package with Barnes in it would the Rockets bite............Probably, but short of  something like that they are out of the picture. don't forget we might end up facing one of these teams in the playoffs. while that's not the only consideration when it comes to trading Asik, it's for sure one of the things Morey will consider