20 replies to this topic

[2016Champions]

During the first half of the season I thought it's still Kobe, but Kobe has slowed down offensively and his defense has been horrible all season long. James Harden on the other hand seems to be speeding up, he's shooting has become alot more consistent since the first half of the season, he now leads all SGs in Value Added, Win Shares, and TS%. He clearly makes his team mates better than Kobe too which is something that doesn't show up on the stat sheet. If anyone has an argument I think it's Wade who has a slightly higher PER and plays better defense, but Wade isn't the #1 focus of defenses every night anymore so that makes things easier for him. All I know for sure is, it's worth discussion, is Harden already the best SG in the league?  

[Steven]

The best 2 guard in the game is Luther Head. Harden is a close second.

[2016Champions]

Head was such a great shooter, what happened to him? Another guy who I thought was pretty good was Von Wafer. It's strange how players sort of fall off the map after parting ways with the Rockets. 

[thejohnnygold]

Even Luther Head thinks that's funny...

[thejohnnygold]

It's difficult to argue against him.  Given his age, current performance, room for growth, and his only competition is on the wrong side of 30 he seems to be the guy.  Wade is still excellent and I think he can still hold his own with or without Lebron.  How many more years does he have left?  Who knows.  It wouldn't surprise me if he was able to carve out a Ray Allen type move and become an excellent spot-up shooter (despite his lagging numbers) for years after his knees finally start to falter.

 

Also, I know Joe Johnson is having a down year (stat-wise) and his inflated contract devalues his performance, but the guy is still a stud 2-guard.  Better than Harden?  I say no, but he deserves a mention.

[2016Champions]

Joe Johnson is one of those guys who is so much better than his stats, he's definitely a top 5 SG. I think he's better at the 3 though. 

[Steven]

It was a quick reference to our trusty leader Rahat. I remember the first time ESPN ranking the 500 best players in the game today. Rahat said having watched him play how Luther Head was ranked higher than anyone was shocking (or something to that extent without putting words in his mouth).

[Cooper]

I'd still take wade or Kobe to win games this season but going into the future Harden should be the best.

[phaketrash]

I think Harden has a strong argument for that SG #1 title. Kobe is having a great yr, but for the reasons you mentioned, Harden might be 'better.' Wade, however, is just so damned good this season. Sure he isn't the #1 option that opposing defenses care about, but remember at the end of the season last yr? He wasn't the #1 focus then either, but he looked lost and frustrated. This yr he has really found his place/role as Super Sidekick.

 

Wade's less athletic than when he was younger, yes, but he's learning to do other things so much better to help the team. Maybe 'learning' is the wrong word -- transitioning better. Wade is also >>> greater than Harden on defense. I've enjoyed watching Wade this season (esp. compared to last) and think he also makes the Heat THAT Much better...just harder to tell through the bright glare of LBJ's brilliance lol.

[thejohnnygold]

After tonight's Pacers game I am reminded how inconsistent Harden is.  I'm confident that he will get better at this, but for now I cannot in good conscience give him the crown.  He has way too many shooting nights that are obscenely bad.  There is a problem in relying on the referees to blow the whistle...sometimes they don't.  Worse, once they think you're just a chucker looking for the whistle they will blow it less and less....

[phaketrash]

Esp. if refs are tighter on their whistles during the playoffs, or def. in clutch playoff moments...

[thejohnnygold]

Exactly.  The difference between Harden and Durant is KD is actually trying to make the shot and gets fouled.  Harden is trying to get fouled and then make the shot.

[thenit]

Harden is not a great shooter, he gets bailed out on a lot of his drives when he is looking for the foul. When he doesn't get those calls his stats line becomes very poor. He takes about 18 shots a game not counting those that he get fouled on. He is shottoing 44.5% on fg and 37% on 3s. Those aren't great numbers, but they aren't bad either. I rather have Wade ATM but Harden will be the #1 SG in a year or two. 

 

The reason I would never put him in the #1 spot is because he can't play defence, or doesn't do it. The times he does play are like a meteor striking earth. I would say he is the best offensive SG but overall I would take Kobe and Wade over him today, because if he doesn't play defence and doesn't get the calls which will happen in the playoffs, his numbers will look like last night against Indiana, and a guy like stephensen will look like an all-star

[Sir Thursday]

Question: would you consider Paul George to be a shooting guard? Because after last night I'm starting to think that maybe he should be starting to be considered in conversations like this...

 

ST

[feelingsupersonic]

Wade is definitely better right now but not for long. Harden might not be the best shooter but he is a great scorer and will get his points.

[2016Champions]

Exactly.  The difference between Harden and Durant is KD is actually trying to make the shot and gets fouled.  Harden is trying to get fouled and then make the shot.

 

Not sure about this. Harden's way of getting fouled is essentially a rip-off Durant's sweep through move, except Harden does it while driving towards the basket where as Durant does it while stationary. 

[phaketrash]

Question: would you consider Paul George to be a shooting guard? Because after last night I'm starting to think that maybe he should be starting to be considered in conversations like this...

 

ST

 

I know George can definitely play the 2, and has, and in the past, I've seen him lumped into that spot more than the SF (when Granger was healthy)...but something about putting the 6'8 Paul George into the best SG convo seems disingenuous, like putting Lebron into the same discussion haha.

[Rahat Huq]

Question: would you consider Paul George to be a shooting guard? Because after last night I'm starting to think that maybe he should be starting to be considered in conversations like this...

 

ST

Nah.  Maybe the game's best defender, but, regardless of where you put him, handles are nowhere near good enough to be included in these sorts of conversations.  In my opinion. 

[Steven]

Paul George is 6'10". He grew two inches in between his rookie year and his second campaign in the NBA.

[Sir Thursday]

Nah.  Maybe the game's best defender, but, regardless of where you put him, handles are nowhere near good enough to be included in these sorts of conversations.  In my opinion. 

 

I personally don't think the handles are a problem. I mean, we talk about Harden in the same company as these guys despite his defense being very poor, so why can't we include George if his defense is fantastic but his offense is a bit lacking? From what I've seen I'd rate his offense much higher than Harden's defense, FWIW.

 

Given Steven's nugget of information about his height, I think PT is right that it's a bit disingenuous to include him in an SG comparison when his natural position is SF, so the argument is probably moot anyway.

 

ST