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Rookie
Posted 02 March 2015 - 07:49 AM
Ariza was game changer vs Cavs....my personal MVP....he carried our defense by guarding lebron and harrasing passing lanes forcing turnovers making steals, rebounding and taking only 3 3pt atempts (he missed all of them but i can live with him spoiling only 3 possesions).
he should always stay away from shooting if hes not hot that night...... we would have a much better record now if he always played like this...
Newbie
Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:54 PM
I wouldn't go as far to say that Ariza was the MVP (Harden is clearly the winner of that accolade, but it's your own personal opinion anyways), but I agree that his defence was pretty damn good when it mattered. Lebron is a tough check for anybody, and though he did end up scoring 37 points, this was on 35 FG attempts, hence look at the process, not the results (though we got lucky this time IMO on all his missed FTs). I disagree that Ariza's missed 3pt attempts are spoiled possessions; it's easy to get frustrated when a players misses multiple threes, but Ariza is a proven shooter who can make the three on a consistent basis, and is valuable at spacing the floor for Harden to drive and post players like Jones, Smith and D-Mo to operate.
Sure, if Ariza has what you call an "off night", he shouldn't force tough shots, but if he has an open shot he should take it, because that is clearly the right decision on the court, regardless of whether or not we fans perceive him to be "hot" or feeling it or not. The shooter in him has to believe that the next shot will fall.
Rookie
Posted 02 March 2015 - 02:33 PM
I disagree that Ariza's missed 3pt attempts are spoiled possessions; it's easy to get frustrated when a players misses multiple threes, but Ariza is a proven shooter who can make the three on a consistent basis,
yes hes consistent he was off for a cuople of months consistently hahahah 
if he shot in huge volumes like he did for that cuople of off months we would have been blown out last night ...i dont care if the percentage is good....theres no stat(yet) for killing momentum... arizas blunderous 3pts atempts were chemistry and momentum killers all season long...were better off with him not shooting at all like last night...
did you relly missed him shooting 3pts last night ?
answer honestly bro....
remember what that young stat master Shane Battier said -analytics made him worse on offense...
Veteran
Posted 02 March 2015 - 06:09 PM
King's Gambit--I like you. Anyone with the courage and conviction to believe in their own worldview as strongly as you has my respect.
I'm not writing this to you, King--you're all set--I am writing this to anyone else who may come across this thread. Ariza's two months of below average 3 pt. shooting were during the injury plagued months of November/December and he was playing nearly 40 minutes a night. Amazingly, when his minutes dropped as players got healthy his 3pt% went back up.
The Rockets are 6-5 when Ariza shoots 4 or less 3 pt. attempts. Conversely, we are 19-6 when he shoots 8+ 3 pt. attempts per game. But lets not allow facts to get in the way of the truth. We were 20-9 when Ariza shot below 33% on threes. Clearly, a team killer.
Saying Ariza should not shoot is the kind of wisdom most of us simply cannot understand--it takes a man with special vision to see past the illusions and know the ultimate truth: every shot Ariza takes is a shot D-Mo could have taken.
I also love King's credo of, "he should always stay away from shooting if he's not hot that night". The ability to see into the future and know which shots will fall and which ones won't trumps analytics all day long. I am looking forward to Morey introducing us to the newest member of the Rockets' coaching staff:
He was always destined to work in basketball--which explains the shape of his hair. Players will come to him before each game, touch the 'fro, and Gary will tell them whether tonight is a shooting night or not. Pure genius. He will also relay messages from childhood pets who have passed away--which is nice.
Lastly, I'm pretty sure Shane Battier never said that--can we get a link to that?
Advanced Member
Posted 02 March 2015 - 06:36 PM
Here's the thing.. Know that when Ariza is taking a lot of shots, it is ONLY the result of one thing. It means that there is good ball movement, mismatches are happening elsewhere and that it is an OPEN shot. I personally don't care how many he shoots if it is in this vain. If he's stuck at the end of the shot clock trying to create his own basket, then it's a whole different story.
Anybody care to run a chart on this? It would be interesting to see how our ball distribution acumen in a particular game determines how much Trevor shoots.
Rookie
Posted 02 March 2015 - 11:15 PM
Here's the thing.. Know that when Ariza is taking a lot of shots, it is ONLY the result of one thing. It means that there is good ball movement, mismatches are happening elsewhere and that it is an OPEN shot. I personally don't care how many he shoots if it is in this vain. If he's stuck at the end of the shot clock trying to create his own basket, then it's a whole different story.
Anybody care to run a chart on this? It would be interesting to see how our ball distribution acumen in a particular game determines how much Trevor shoots.
did you really missed his shooting last night? i mean really ? I didnt...
it was an experiment and it failed and failed badly... its ok to fail thats how you learn
ariza himself was uncomfortable chucking those 3s after first cuople of games of sucking....but coaching insisted he keeps chucking them because perhaps that was just a slump....alas it wasnt justa a slump..... this reminds me of shane battier saying 'analytics' made him worse on offense cause he become too self-conscious always thinking what is an efficient shot
rest in peace ariza chucking you are the worst shot in basketball regardless of percentages....open or not open just play superior defense...
Edited by King's Gambit Accepted, 02 March 2015 - 11:16 PM.
Rookie
Posted 03 March 2015 - 01:07 AM
Just here to comment on that beautiful white fro.
Veteran
Posted 03 March 2015 - 01:30 AM
did you really missed his shooting last night? i mean really ? I didnt...
it was an experiment and it failed and failed badly... its ok to fail thats how you learn
ariza himself was uncomfortable chucking those 3s after first cuople of games of sucking....but coaching insisted he keeps chucking them because perhaps that was just a slump....alas it wasnt justa a slump..... this reminds me of shane battier saying 'analytics' made him worse on offense cause he become too self-conscious always thinking what is an efficient shot
rest in peace ariza chucking you are the worst shot in basketball regardless of percentages....open or not open just play superior defense...
Since you couldn't be bothered to provide a source for your Battier quote I did. First, here is what he actually said.
“ Battier explained that while the numbers, such as knowing Carmelo Anthony’s tendency to go right vs. left, helped him improve as a defender, it challenged him as an offensive player.
“I became very conscious of what was good and what was bad,” Battier said. “I lost all of my creativity. I made one non-paint, two-point jumper” in 2012." LINK
That quote comes from the 2015 Sloan Analytics Conference.
He never actually says it made him worse--that is your interpretation. He said it robbed him of his creativity. I am guessing the remark was half in jest and is somewhat irrelevant. As a role player his job was not to be creative. It was to be efficient--which he was.
I can't bring myself to say more about your view on Ariza.
Advanced Member
Posted 03 March 2015 - 01:53 PM
rest in peace ariza chucking you are the worst shot in basketball regardless of percentages....open or not open just play superior defense...
Dang! 
Any part of our rotation must be trusted to make the plays that come their way. I trust them. If Ariza is open for 3 he most definitely should take it. OPEN is the key word there. If he's not open and there's time on the shot clock, he shouldn't. He's not the optimum shot creator, so I don't like it when he is forced to create by virtue of an old clock, but normally I don't have any problem with his shot selection. Every player in this system must have the confidence to fill their roles completely, and if it's a wing, he must shoot if he is open.
Advanced Member
Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:08 PM
Even after 1-7 from 3 last night, I'm still cool with him taking those shots.. he was open.
Rookie
Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:39 PM
Even after 1-7 from 3 last night, I'm still cool with him taking those shots.. he was open.
Boy i would love to play for you... so patient...i hope the patience pays off in playoffs and we win big time...
on the other hand imho 3pt shot is the worse shot in basketball even when its taken by Kyle Korver and Stef Curry let alone Ariza...
Rookie
Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:38 PM
had ariza not taken these shots we easily win....easily...ariza shooting is a momentum killer... its not just about percentages... you give your opponents wings to fly and cut your own wings...MOMENTUM...
Junior Member
Posted 04 March 2015 - 05:46 PM
had ariza not taken these shots we easily win....easily...ariza shooting is a momentum killer... its not just about percentages... you give your opponents wings to fly and cut your own wings...MOMENTUM...
Byron Scott is that you?
Junior Member
Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:15 PM
Boy i would love to play for you... so patient...i hope the patience pays off in playoffs and we win big time...
on the other hand imho 3pt shot is the worse shot in basketball even when its taken by Kyle Korver and Stef Curry let alone Ariza...
you do realize kyle korver shooting (roughly) 50 (actually 49.6) percent from deep means he's converting points at the rate of 75 % for 2s (including such things as layups/dunks/etc.).
Deandre Jordan leads the league at 72.3 percent on 2s. (71.7% overall)
so 49.6 X 1.5= 74.4 percent (equivalent percent on 2s for korver)
Thus....a kyle korver 3 is worth more than even the MOST efficent shot maker inside in the NBA.
That said...korver is an extreme case and for our team (outside of harden/terry corner threes who shoot 50% in the corners) and i would take a inside play over them IF OPEN. But to say 3s are worst shots in the game for every player is just misinformed.
Edited by Losthief, 04 March 2015 - 07:16 PM.
LoSTHieF
I'd Rather Be Lucky Than Skilled
Newbie
Posted 04 March 2015 - 08:07 PM
It s a shame that this forum has turned into a spot to refute the crazies.
If threes are the worst shot in the game then Morey is obviously the worst GM. That would make McHale the worst coach. OH MY GOD! How is a team being ran by idiots third in the west without their second best player for a good chunk of the year?
Veteran
Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:22 PM
It s a shame that this forum has turned into a spot to refute the crazies.
If threes are the worst shot in the game then Morey is obviously the worst GM. That would make McHale the worst coach. OH MY GOD! How is a team being ran by idiots third in the west without their second best player for a good chunk of the year?
This forum has not turned into a spot to refute crazies. I invite everyone to recognize a troll when they see one. If anyone chooses to reply to them it is their own choice, but trust that the vast majority here are aware. By the way, I would normally remind you that calling people names like "crazies" is not up to standard. Given the circumstance we'll let it slide, but let's try to remember we don't do name-calling--even when warranted.
Junior Member
Posted 05 March 2015 - 01:59 AM
had ariza not taken these shots we easily win....easily...ariza shooting is a momentum killer... its not just about percentages... you give your opponents wings to fly and cut your own wings...MOMENTUM...
Advanced Member
Posted 11 March 2015 - 01:25 PM
had ariza not taken these shots we easily win....easily...ariza shooting is a momentum killer... its not just about percentages... you give your opponents wings to fly and cut your own wings...MOMENTUM...
Ok, in the past four games we've seen Trevor start to take the long 2 more often here's how he fared.
Hawks: 1/2
Grizz: 3/3
Pistons: 1/1
Nugs: 2/3
(7/9)
On 3's
Hawks: 1/6
Grizz: 0/4
Pistons: 0/3
Nugs: 3/6
(4/19)
This was from just glancing at the shot charts. Upon further inspection, Maybe King's Gambit is on to something in the case of Ariza? Should he be given the long-2 green light?
Personally I think that any open shots that come Ariza's way should be taken and considered lagniappe. There's a good possibility too that the pressure to fit within the system's constraints forces Ariza to take a step back and therefore out of rhythm, forcing a shot that would have otherwise been natural. The long 2's he took had good form and were in rhythm off a dribble or two if I remember correctly.
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