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@  majik19 : (13 October 2015 - 09:09 PM) Apparently we claimed Arsalan Kazemi off waivers from the Hawks today... yet another undersized (6'7") power forward for Morey's cupboard.
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@  slick shoes : (07 October 2015 - 06:50 PM) Kobe ranked one spot higher than Ariza? Is this based on legacy or...??
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@  Mario Peña : (07 October 2015 - 04:09 PM) It was fun to have the Rockets on last night! Right now I'm watching the Celtics versus Milan and Alessandro Gentile is impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (06 October 2015 - 07:47 PM) Well, thinking twice about it, I'd rather have him score less and have the team as a whole do better. Lawson should take a lot of his load off
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@  Mario Peña : (06 October 2015 - 02:35 PM) Alright guys, if anyone is interested in joining the Red94 fantasy basketball league we could use one more player to get us to 10 teams (or three to get us to 12 teams). Just check the thread in the Fantasy Basketball forum. Thanks!
@  thejohnnygold : (05 October 2015 - 06:23 PM) I use leaguepass here in Austin with no problems...
@  skip 2 my lou : (05 October 2015 - 03:14 PM) Hey fellas, I'm a rocket fan but I live in the heart of Dallas. Does anybody know if I buy NBA Leaguepass if it's too close to be subject to blackouts?
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@  thejohnnygold : (29 September 2015 - 05:16 AM) FYI, it was media day today. Interviews are up at NBA.com
@  slick shoes : (23 September 2015 - 06:37 PM) kind of late in the day but NBATV is broadcasting classis Rockets games all day today.
@  SadLakerFan : (16 September 2015 - 04:37 AM) Man, as a Laker fan, I'm learning how little you care about the off season when your team sucks. Anyway, a quick moment to remember Moses. Still remember watching the 81 team as a kid - losing record, NBA Finals. I would have cried w/joy if they could have beaten the Celtics.
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@  jorgeaam : (15 September 2015 - 08:30 PM) So to celebrate his new contract, Montrezl Harrell saved someone's life on monday
@  thejohnnygold : (14 September 2015 - 04:36 PM) A good article from Blinebury talking about when Hakeem and Moses used to play in the park. LINK

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A quick note on Kyrie Irving and selfishness


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9 replies to this topic

#1 Red94

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    Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:03 PM

    New post: A quick note on Kyrie Irving and selfishness
    By: Richard Li

    I'm going to break the rule I laid down for myself about 12 hours ago. Apparently Lebron James and Kyrie Irving had something that fell between "healthy conversation" and "spat" after the Cavaliers lost last night, mainly related to Irving's ballhog playing style (23 shots, 0 assists). Since the topic was selfishness, I couldn't help myself but look at some early small sample size data.

    You may recall that I was really interested in this issue last year. I developed some selfishness measures  and even created a ball stopping index. Admittedly the latter results were skewed to make point guards look bad since they naturally touch the ball a lot, but even so Irving was the #1 ball stopper in the league. This year?

    No index yet, but I did run some quick figures for touches per pass (TPP), which was the measure I developed last year. Higher numbers indicate that the player tends to do something besides pass when he touches the ball (i.e., shoots). Lower numbers indicate that the player tends to pass a lot when he touches the ball. For reference, last year's high was Klay Thompson, who was a hair under 2.0 TPP, meaning he passes only 50% of the time when he touches the ball. The theoretical low is 1.0 TPP, meaning that player always passes the ball upon touching it. Anyways, here's some early figures:

    Last year This year
    Irving 1.46 1.46
    James 1.58 1.50
    Love 1.44 1.36
    Harden 1.62 1.62

     

    The data seem to agree with Lebron. Both he and Love have reduced their selfishness while Irving has not, despite having exponentially better teammates compared to last year. Because this is a Rockets blog, I threw in James Harden, who looks pretty consistent thus far.


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    #2 timetodienow1234567

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    Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:09 PM

    I believe that Irving literally believes he's the best in the world. He drank his own kool-aid. I wondered about the pairing because Irving's catch and shoot numbers are HORRID. But if he has that problem and now he won't pass... Could the Cavs trade him for Marc Gasol? It fixes nearly all of their issues. Dion could become the PG and Lebron would initiate the offense most of the time. It makes their defense ten times better.
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    Why so Serious? :D


    #3 RudyT1995

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      Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:24 AM

      Irving and Waiters have taken selfish play to a new level.  


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      #4 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:49 PM

      I believe that Irving literally believes he's the best in the world. He drank his own kool-aid. I wondered about the pairing because Irving's catch and shoot numbers are HORRID. But if he has that problem and now he won't pass... Could the Cavs trade him for Marc Gasol? It fixes nearly all of their issues. Dion could become the PG and Lebron would initiate the offense most of the time. It makes their defense ten times better.

       

      I appreciate the thought, but I don't see Irving getting traded for Gasol--or any quality center in this league.  It's economics.


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      #5 timetodienow1234567

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      Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:53 PM

      What do you mean? Is Irving worth more or Gasol in your mind? I think it's Gasol since there is a lack of quality centers. Marc Gasol is being rumored to leave to go somewhere else with plenty of teams ready to throw max deals at him. If Memphis believes he will leave to go to NY, they might do it. Cleveland probably wouldn't do it without asking him if he would re-sign. 


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      Why so Serious? :D


      #6 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 07 November 2014 - 06:56 PM

      What do you mean? Is Irving worth more or Gasol in your mind? I think it's Gasol since there is a lack of quality centers. Marc Gasol is being rumored to leave to go somewhere else with plenty of teams ready to throw max deals at him. If Memphis believes he will leave to go to NY, they might do it. Cleveland probably wouldn't do it without asking him if he would re-sign. 

       

      Yes, Gasol is far more valuable.  Sorry I wasn't clear on that.  Memphis has no use for Irving--they just got rid of Gay for being a me-first gunner why trade their best player for another one?

       

      Memphis may wind up trading him....anything is possible, but I think they like this roster and are going to see it through to the end.  They will make the playoffs and they will likely make some noise and could get to the finals--nobody wants to see them in their bracket.  If I were Gasol I'd try to go to Miami after this season--that would be a heckuva team.


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      #7 Losthief

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      Posted 08 November 2014 - 05:17 AM

      Also the grizz have conley, who just might be better than Kyrie anyways.


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      LoSTHieF

      I'd Rather Be Lucky Than Skilled


      #8 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 08 November 2014 - 03:59 PM

      Also the grizz have conley, who just might be better than Kyrie anyways.

       

      While I will concede that it is up for debate......is it really???  I think most people would take Conley over Kyrie.

       

      I mean, let's talk backcourt duos.

       

      Kyrie/Waiters

      Wall/Beal

      Lillard/Matthews

      Curry/Thompson

      Walker/Stephenson

      Beverley/Harden

      Conley/Lee

      Bledsoe/Dragic

       

      That's a solid list.  Is there a single duo there you wouldn't prefer over Irving/Waiters?  Even Walker/Stephenson is preferable!!!

       

      Heck, once Shabazz Napier takes over the starting PG spot in Miami that duo will be better too.  I can't believe Norris Cole is starting....it won't last.

       

      One last thought...I've mentioned it before, but isn't the narrative about how weak SG is in this league a little off?  There may not be many "stars", but who cares about that?  There is strong SG play across the league.  Yes, there are some converted PG's in there, but so what?  There are Pf's playing center, and SF's playing PF, and plenty of other position-less players.  I think 2 guard is strong.

       

      I get it, we came out of an era with the likes of Gervin, Jordan, Dumars, Drexler, Miller, and Mitch Richmond among others into the Kobe-era with Iverson, Allen, Carter, Ginobili, Arenas (albeit short lived), Wade and more....there are plenty of guys left off this list as well.

       

      Still, the lack of household names is as much a failing of the media as it is the fan.  There are lots of very good 2 guards out there.  Just because they are not the dominant position doesn't diminish their talent--the league as a whole has shifted to the hybrid sf/pf position.  This is true both in talent and philosophy and it's a bit of a chicken/egg (which came first) question.

       

      Watch what happens as Harden, Thompson, Wroten, Stephenson, Oladipo, Ellis, Napier (who is apparently listed as a SG), Wiggins (also listed as a SG), and more usher in a new era of 80's style basketball--one that will be dominated by SG's and big men like Davis, Drummond, Noel, Embiid, and more.  YEAH!  :)  (Sorry--I am way off topic...Irving sucks!  :P )


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      #9 Cooper

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        Posted 08 November 2014 - 05:03 PM

        Unless gasol says he will leave no matter what they can't trade him the grizz are a legit finals threat.

         

        I actually think irving will figure it out theres no logical argument for irving no not change he just has so many built up bad habits it will take a while. However waiters might need to be traded if they can't convince him to come off the bench, can't start 3 negative defenders with no rim protection.


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        #10 Losthief

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        Posted 08 November 2014 - 05:20 PM

        I agree with you that conley is the better player today, but he's 27 and Kyrie is 22, which the main difference between the two is defense and bit of passing ability. I think both of those things might improve for kyrie over the long haul. That said, I'd take conley for winning a championship this year, but probably irving if im rebuilding.


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        LoSTHieF

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