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@  jorgeaam : (10 November 2014 - 07:38 AM) Charles Barkley is celebrating
@  SadLakerFan : (10 November 2014 - 05:00 AM) Holy crap, the Lakers won!
@  SadLakerFan : (10 November 2014 - 04:23 AM) CP last two games 2-20 FG, 0-8 3Pt, 9 boards, 1 assist. Highest paid player on the team.
@  jorgeaam : (10 November 2014 - 04:04 AM) No more undefeated teams
@  SadLakerFan : (10 November 2014 - 03:50 AM) . . . . and Golden State runs into the dreaded back-to-back with Game 2 at high altitude.
@  RudyT1995 : (10 November 2014 - 03:04 AM) $46 mil well spent. Lol. Worth every penny.
@  RudyT1995 : (10 November 2014 - 02:57 AM) He is getting absolutely destroyed by Luol Deng on both ends.
@  RudyT1995 : (10 November 2014 - 02:34 AM) Is it wrong for me to be happy about Chandler Parsons's early season struggles?
@  jorgeaam : (09 November 2014 - 04:37 PM) And D Mo actually scored!
@  Mario Pena (... : (09 November 2014 - 01:45 PM) I agree that it's not a terribly important game, the Rockets were bound to lose a box score eventually but on the court this team defense looked good and the rotation players benifitted from bigger roles.
@  Cooper : (09 November 2014 - 04:40 AM) I don't mind especially since jones and bev were already out, its not that big a game.
@  thenit : (09 November 2014 - 04:39 AM) Also you might infect your teammates.
@  thenit : (09 November 2014 - 04:38 AM) Stop it. If you have the flu you don't play through it in a regular season game. You can make it worse weakening your health and immune system leading to maybe more days off.
@  08huangj : (09 November 2014 - 04:30 AM) Why would someone sit out a game because of a flu? I understands that the body is a little weaker, but Dwight could've at least played like 20 mins.
@  08huangj : (09 November 2014 - 04:28 AM) However, i liked Canaan in the game. He made some important/impossible shots in the 4th quarter to keep the Rockets in the game. Unfortunately, he missed a wide open three pointer at crunch time and Curry responded at the other end.
@  08huangj : (09 November 2014 - 04:26 AM) Yeah. He sent the Rockets on isolation three pointers when they were one point down against the Warriors. Unsurprisingly, none of them went in.
@  kdo : (09 November 2014 - 04:18 AM) This was winnable, McHale got out-coached again...
@  Losthief : (09 November 2014 - 03:24 AM) Just not enough gas in the reserve tank for the Good Guys tonight, still helluva effort real proud of 'em!
@  Losthief : (09 November 2014 - 02:40 AM) howard got the flu
@  Cooper : (09 November 2014 - 02:21 AM) Canaan and dmo shownin out

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Terrence Jones and the Torture Chamber


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#1 Red94

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    Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:00 PM

    New post: Terrence Jones and the Torture Chamber
    By: John Eby

    Last spring, Lamarcus Aldridge put Terrence Jones in a crucible and melted him down. The lesson from that is obvious isn't it? Terrence Jones needs to learn to defend the post. He needs to bone up, bulk up, and learn to defend the power forward position. The lesson most people would learn from seeing Jones get roasted by LMA is that he needs to become someone he's not. I think he learned something better.

    On Saturday night, Jones was matched up with Kelly Olynyk, a skilled 7-foot post player--exactly the kind of guy who Jones struggles to defend. On the very first possession, Jones catches the ball near the corner and welcomes Olynyk into the torture chamber.

    A pump fake, a jab step, and a quick spin move into the lane, and Olynyk is taking the ball out of the net. Less than 20 seconds later, the Rockets go straight to Jones again, this time in the mid-post. A couple fakes, a quick dribble into the paint, and Olynyk has picked up his first foul. Clyde Drexler makes a joke about the Dream saying "we want to check his lateral movement." Jones went on to put up 25 points with 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. It was one of the biggest games of his career to date.

    Overshadowed by that performance however, was that Jared Sullinger pushed him around a lot. Sully grabbed nine rebounds, posted 14 points (although it took him 15 shots), and generally bullied the Rockets' front line most of the night. Terrence Jones is still just 6'8", and he still can't defend bruising 4's and 5's. On some nights, against some teams, he's still a liability.

    Big. Fat. Hairy. Deal.

    NBA players don't become great by eliminating all of their weaknesses. They win by playing to their strengths. For every big man who Jones struggles to defend, there are two who will struggle to defend him. He's arguably the best perimeter ball-handler of any true power forward in the league, even better than many starting small forwards. Go down the list of top-tier power forwards in the league--Kevin Love, Zach Randolph, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, LaMarcus Aldridge, Anthony Davis--and how many of those guys are going to cherish the thought of having to defend a perimeter player for 36 minutes? Even if they can hang with the guy (thinking of Davis here), they're still going to be dragged away from the rim.

    Of course, all of those stars will go into the matchup with the mindset that they're going to crush the smaller player in the post. For great players, mismatches are just an opportunity to dominate.  That's the lesson Jones should have learned from LaMarcus Aldridge: force the other guy to play on your terms. Force their coach to pull them out because they can't stop you. Force them to cry for mercy. Jones has holes in his game that he needs to work on, but he has all the tools he needs to torture opponents right now. Just ask Kelly Olynyk.


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    #2 Mason Khamvilay

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    Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:24 PM

    Hmm I wouldn't downplay the impact it would have if Terrence was able to play better defense. If Terrence has trouble scoring that's fine because those possessions will go to someone else, like Harden or Dwight, they can score in Terrence's steed. However, players can't guard Terrence's man for him, only he can do that.
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    #3 thenit

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      Posted 03 November 2014 - 12:27 AM

      He can handle the ball but he doesn't have a reliable mid range or 3p shot so teams will just give him the cushion and give him the shot so his ball handling skills will be nullified and his D is still tbd cause we have faced poor teams and PFs.
      We already knew from last year that he can feast on poor teams and PFs and he is a very good player, but has he taken the steps to improve his weaknesses to elevate us into real contention? Regards to his ball handling, they can just back off and give him the cushion, he doesn't have the range to consistently make those midrange and 3s.
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      #4 Sir Thursday

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      Posted 03 November 2014 - 12:48 AM

      Hmm I wouldn't downplay the impact it would have if Terrence was able to play better defense. If Terrence has trouble scoring that's fine because those possessions will go to someone else, like Harden or Dwight, they can score in Terrence's steed. However, players can't guard Terrence's man for him, only he can do that.

       

      I agree. The difference between someone like Jones and someone like Aldridge is that in a high pressure situation, Portland throws the ball to Aldridge, whereas Houston throws the ball to Harden or Howard. Jones' offence is nice, but his position in the team's hierarchy makes it unlikely that he'll get many opportunities to be the match-up nightmare that John wants him to be in that article. As long as those other guys are around, the Rockets won't and shouldn't be designing their offence to emphasis a mismatch at PF.

       

      It's great that Jones is capable of these things, but at the moment there isn't room in the offence for him to showcase them to the degree that they outweigh his defensive contributions, IMO. I would re-formulate one of the central tenets of John's argument as follows: "Stars don't become great by eliminating their weaknesses, they win by playing to their strengths." But players who aren't on that level win by filling in the gaps in the roster and doing what's best for the team. Jones is still one of the players that needs to do that - improving his presence on the defensive glass and general positioning on that end will go further towards helping the team succeed than his burgeoning offensive arsenal will at this point.

       

      ST


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      #5 rockets best fan

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      Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:41 AM

      I disagree with the idea there isn't room in the Rockets offense for T-Jones to shine. Harden, Howard and Ariza can't score all the points. T-Jones doesn't have to be 3rd leading scorer, but using him in our offensive scheme will offset some of his defensive liabilities by making other PF's guard him as well as John said above. T-Jones is an underutilized offensive weapon. his ability to score around the basket should be one of the used weapons within our arsenal. I'm floored so many think so little of his abilities. am I the only one watching the evolution of this guy? he may never be a shut down defender, but there is plenty to like about his game. I believe that game does have a place in the Rockets system. some are so busy looking for a PF that you might miss the one growing up in our own backyard.


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      you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


      #6 Red94

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        Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:37 PM

        I have to respectfully disagree with your premise, John.  TJ is the best ball handling power forward in the league, but most of that is fancy stuff in the open court.  They're not exactly spreading the floor and letting him take his man off the dribble in the halfcourt, because he can't do that.  If that were the case, the premise would stand.  Consequently, guys like Aldridge aren't worrying about his ability to put the ball on the floor.  The good teams aren't worrying about his shot either.

         

        The big difference I noted in coverage against him last season was the distinction between how good teams guarded him and how bad teams guarded him.  Bad teams all ran out on him on the 3 point line, allowing him to pump fake and get into the lane.  Good teams didn't care if he sank a 3 here or there.  They didn't close out.  Consequently, he couldn't do anything.  He can only create off the dribble if a defender is rotating at him. He can't take a static man one on one.


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        #7 bboley24

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          Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:55 PM

          As long as he doesn't shoot any threes... I'm in total continuity here.


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          #8 thejohnnygold

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          Posted 03 November 2014 - 05:05 PM

          NBA.com has a cool interview/montage with Jones on his player Bio page.  Check it out.  I like what he says and where he is headed.


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          #9 SadLakerFan

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            Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:19 PM

            I suspect the Rockets will be on the lookout for a 4 until the deadline.  Great that his offense is improving, but the probem is in the playoffs, when half-court sets predominate, he's in trouble against Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk, Duncan, Randolph, Davis . . . . who am I missing.


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            #10 Steven

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              Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:28 PM

              I suspect the Rockets will be on the lookout for a 4 until the deadline. Great that his offense is improving, but the probem is in the playoffs, when half-court sets predominate, he's in trouble against Aldridge, Griffin, Dirk, Duncan, Randolph, Davis . . . . who am I missing.

              Boozer
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              #11 Losthief

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              Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:55 PM

              david lee (on the offensive side of the ball), faried (if they make it)


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              LoSTHieF

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              #12 SadLakerFan

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                Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:04 AM

                I forgot about David Lee.  He's another very tough cover.  The issue for Houston is that no matter how much he improves, they know that because the West is so loaded at the 4, Jones will be left as a match up that teams seek to exploit in the playoffs.  I don't think it's fatal, but if the right player becomes available.  .  .  .  It's obviously the logic that drove Morey to make all the moves he made to accommodate Bosh.


                Edited by SadLakerFan, 04 November 2014 - 02:05 AM.

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                #13 Red94

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                  Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:07 PM

                  David Lee is a load for Terrence Jones.


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                  #14 timetodienow1234567

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                  Posted 04 November 2014 - 05:50 PM

                  The only good thing defensively for Jones is when he plays against a team with a subpar PF that he can cheat off of, he can block shots during help defense.
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                  Why so Serious? :D


                  #15 txtdo1411

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                  Posted 04 November 2014 - 06:35 PM

                  The only good thing defensively for Jones is when he plays against a team with a subpar PF that he can cheat off of, he can block shots during help defense.

                   

                  Yea his weak side help defense is pretty decent. He has already gotten a few blocks in help D this season. His main issue is just being bullied in one on one coverage. The hope is that with experience and putting on a little size, he will be able to at least somewhat contain bigger power forwards. I don't know if he will ever be a plus on that end, but hopefully he can get to where he isn't a complete liability when facing good competition. 

                   

                  All that being said, even with all his warts, I would absolutely hate to lose this guy in a trade. I know a lot of people may disagree with me on this, but I like the way he fits in our offense (of course if he could shoot the 3 just a little more consistently he would be an even better fit). As the 4th/5th option on offense I really like what he brings to the table. He can attack pretty much any PF off the dribble, and his post moves are certainly getting better. It seems like the last few games, our offensive strategy has been to get Jones going early. He also seems to be attacking the boards harder this year compared to last season. He still pulled a disappearing act against the Jazz and Sixers where he had 3 & 4 rebounds respectively, but in the other three games he has had 13 & 10. That is pretty solid considering who he plays next to as well as Harden ripping down over 6 boards a game. 

                   

                  The inconsistency is an issue, and probably the main thing that holds back Jones from solidifying his role as our starting PF on a contending team. It was a problem last year, and through 4 games so far it appears like it is going to plague him again. The thing we must remember as fans is that he is only 22 years old, and playing his second season as a starter. We have to try and be patient with him (if we can afford to be patient with him without wasting Howard's prime is a topic for a different discussion completely). As of right now, unless we are getting a star PF in return, I would be very upset if Morey included Jones in any trade. 

                   

                  On a side note: Can we appreciate how great Harden has been so far this season. He is averaging 27.8 pts, 6.8 asts, 6.3 boards, and sporting a cool 31 PER! He is doing all this while shooting 37% from the field. I know it hasn't been the best competition, but man those are some impressive numbers. If/When his shots start falling, he is going to be the most dominant offensive player in the NBA. Oh and did I mention he is actually playing serviceable defense to boot?! 


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                  #16 rockets best fan

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                  Posted 07 November 2014 - 04:40 AM

                  @txtdo1411

                  I agree with most of your statement. it still amazes me so many are willing to trash T-Jones. in order for me to see us acquiring another PF he must be an upgrade to T-Jones. I don't see that on the market right now. every player in the starting lineup doesn't have to be a star. I think T-Jones can be the starting PF of a championship team if the other pieces are in place. I still believe the best position we can upgrade at this point is PG. I know that's against popular opinion, but to me our possible options are more meaningful upgrades at PG than our options at PF. with that said I would still take Al Horford in a heartbeat.........outside of that the PF market is dry. however the PG market has some interesting possibilities. I would keep an eye on Phoenix...........a bad start by them could make Dragic available. Rondo is also up for grabs even though I personal would pass on him unless the price was low. don't get me wrong I really love Beverly, but I wouldn't pass on a chance to obtain Dragic if he was out there


                  Edited by rockets best fan, 07 November 2014 - 04:41 AM.

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                  you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


                  #17 Losthief

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                  Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:02 AM

                  @txtdo1411

                  I agree with most of your statement. it still amazes me so many are willing to trash T-Jones. in order for me to see us acquiring another PF he must be an upgrade to T-Jones. I don't see that on the market right now. every player in the starting lineup doesn't have to be a star. I think T-Jones can be the starting PF of a championship team if the other pieces are in place. I still believe the best position we can upgrade at this point is PG. I know that's against popular opinion, but to me our possible options are more meaningful upgrades at PG than our options at PF. with that said I would still take Al Horford in a heartbeat.........outside of that the PF market is dry. however the PG market has some interesting possibilities. I would keep an eye on Phoenix...........a bad start by them could make Dragic available. Rondo is also up for grabs even though I personal would pass on him unless the price was low. don't get me wrong I really love Beverly, but I wouldn't pass on a chance to obtain Dragic if he was out there

                   

                  I agree with you as far as not trading for a pf to replace Jones with just anyone. I still like Amir Johnson if we could get him w/o giving up any of our rotation via the trade exception. I think having Amir start and allowing TJones to feast on 2nd teamers would allow TJones to be a focal point for our bench. I'd be ok with Amir off the bench too, key is to add w/o giving up depth unless its for a star/near star like you said (al horford, rondo, dragic, et al)


                  Edited by Losthief, 07 November 2014 - 05:03 AM.

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                  LoSTHieF

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                  #18 thenit

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                    Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:16 AM

                    I live in toronto, they would not trade Amir unless they got either harden or Howard in a trade. None of the other players would improve the team and they are not I. Stockpile mode for picks or young prospects. He is loves the city and will resign with the team once the cap goes up.
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                    #19 Losthief

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                    Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:46 AM

                    I live in toronto, they would not trade Amir unless they got either harden or Howard in a trade. None of the other players would improve the team and they are not I. Stockpile mode for picks or young prospects. He is loves the city and will resign with the team once the cap goes up.

                     

                    fair enough, i was just going off the fact they have what 4 guys listed at pf playing 19 plus minutes a game:

                     

                    Amir, PPat, James Johnson, Pyscho T.

                     

                    Figured that was a logjam...but if Amir/Raptors are happy playing him 25 minutes a night then i get keeping him, he's a good player, they just seemed not to really feature him much prior to this year, but maybe they are now? <---asking i have no idea haven't watched the raps this season yet.

                     

                    p.s. on that note how do they raps feel about PPat, he'd be an excellent first big off the bench for us. Again, I'd get it if they wouldn't be willing to trade him.


                    Edited by Losthief, 07 November 2014 - 05:48 AM.

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                    LoSTHieF

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                    #20 thenit

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                      Posted 07 November 2014 - 02:19 PM

                      Amir has been dealing with an ankle injury and james Johnson has been playing the 3. They like Patterson as a backup big. The 2 of them and valencinus are the three main rotation, they sometimes goes small because of inexperience by the young center.
                      I think Amir would be a great addition just not feasible. Patterson and Tyler might be had but at the current state they are not really log jammed since the rotation is set since last year.
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