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[Red94]

New post: The Red 94 Podcast: Episode 36
By: kirk sowers

In today’s episode, Rahat discusses Dion Waiters’ availability and answers reader questions regarding Francisco Garcia and a hypothetical trade for Carmelo Anthony.

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[thejohnnygold]

I'm not sure I find these trade scenarios to be very realistic.  What the heck are we going to do with Waiters?  Play him 10-15 minutes off the bench?  Who thinks that will work?  He has (allegedly) already made a fuss in Cleveland because he thinks his teammates won't pass him the ball enough, but now he wants to live in James Harden's shadow?  Plus, what are we giving up to get him?  His salary jumps for the next few years are $4M, $5M, and $6.7M--once again for James Harden's back up?

 

Here is hoopshype's take on him--ouch!

 

"Effective in the open court... Good ballhandler... Pretty strong for a guard... Likes to go to the hole... Plays for himself... Doesn't make teammates better."

 

I get that he has tons of upside, is young, can score, and would be a nice asset, but is that what we want to bring into the locker room?  A young kid who has issues meshing with teammates that is going from being a young stud 4th overall pick, to a 6th man bench scorer, to James Harden's squire all in the span of 18 months.

 

Even for a first round pick (which I am doubtful Houston's would be high enough to garner such a deal) I wouldn't want this guy in our locker room right now.  It would be a bad fit.  He needs to go to a place like Minnesota, New York, or maybe Denver.

 

As for the Carmelo trade...my reaction is

 

There is just so much wrong with this idea.  I'm glad you acknowledged some of the reasons Houston would not want to make this trade, Rahat.  What was left out is why on earth would NY do this deal?

 

So they are going to trade Carmelo for Lin, Asik, D-Mo, and a pick(s)?  Really?

 

They are going to trade down from Gallinari, to Bargnani, to Motiejunas?  What game is this...find the least effective Euro stretch 4?  If it is they're winning!

 

Omer Asik.  Can we stop trading Asik to a team with an established starting center?  Both Chandler and Asik's deals run through 2015.  What the heck are they going to do with that?  Sure, they can deal Chandler....but this adds more question marks and his $15M salary makes it a tough deal.  You're not getting a star back for him and what are you going to do with a $15M pile of spare parts when you just did the same thing for Carmelo?  Makes no sense.

 

Jeremy Lin.  This is about the only part of the deal that makes any sense for New York.  Until the fans realize Linsanity isn't going to happen again and they turn on him.

 

Carmelo is an amazing player.  I would like him to continue being amazing somewhere else.

 

What would be an amazing move would be Cleveland moving their pile of bad draft picks for Carmelo.  Anthony Bennett, Waiters, and Deng for Melo?  Cleveland saves face on their draft picks and New York gets Melo-lite, Harden-lite, and a guy who at least looks as if he could play like Larry Johnson (NY fans love him!).

 

What is more likely is they would have to swap Bennett for Tristan Thompson.  Cleveland should still make this move.  Melo plays the 4.  CJ Miles has proven effective at the 3.  Move Jarret Jack into the starting SG spot and you've got yourself a decent starting unit.  Presuming Varejao can stay healthy they'll have a good starting 5...but Varejao won't stay healthy so they'll need to upgrade center sooner than later.  Maybe they can steal Hawes in FA?

[BrentYen]

Just curious, do you guy agree with the notion that, "a team with Melo as its best player will never win it all"?

[Knickabokkaz]

I'm not sure I find these trade scenarios to be very realistic.  What the heck are we going to do with Waiters?  Play him 10-15 minutes off the bench?  Who thinks that will work?  He has (allegedly) already made a fuss in Cleveland because he thinks his teammates won't pass him the ball enough, but now he wants to live in James Harden's shadow?  Plus, what are we giving up to get him?  His salary jumps for the next few years are $4M, $5M, and $6.7M--once again for James Harden's back up?

 

Here is hoopshype's take on him--ouch!

 

"Effective in the open court... Good ballhandler... Pretty strong for a guard... Likes to go to the hole... Plays for himself... Doesn't make teammates better."

 

I get that he has tons of upside, is young, can score, and would be a nice asset, but is that what we want to bring into the locker room?  A young kid who has issues meshing with teammates that is going from being a young stud 4th overall pick, to a 6th man bench scorer, to James Harden's squire all in the span of 18 months.

 

Even for a first round pick (which I am doubtful Houston's would be high enough to garner such a deal) I wouldn't want this guy in our locker room right now.  It would be a bad fit.  He needs to go to a place like Minnesota, New York, or maybe Denver.

 

As for the Carmelo trade...my reaction is

 

There is just so much wrong with this idea.  I'm glad you acknowledged some of the reasons Houston would not want to make this trade, Rahat.  What was left out is why on earth would NY do this deal?

 

So they are going to trade Carmelo for Lin, Asik, D-Mo, and a pick(s)?  Really?

 

They are going to trade down from Gallinari, to Bargnani, to Motiejunas?  What game is this...find the least effective Euro stretch 4?  If it is they're winning!

 

Omer Asik.  Can we stop trading Asik to a team with an established starting center?  Both Chandler and Asik's deals run through 2015.  What the heck are they going to do with that?  Sure, they can deal Chandler....but this adds more question marks and his $15M salary makes it a tough deal.  You're not getting a star back for him and what are you going to do with a $15M pile of spare parts when you just did the same thing for Carmelo?  Makes no sense.

 

Jeremy Lin.  This is about the only part of the deal that makes any sense for New York.  Until the fans realize Linsanity isn't going to happen again and they turn on him.

 

Carmelo is an amazing player.  I would like him to continue being amazing somewhere else.

 

What would be an amazing move would be Cleveland moving their pile of bad draft picks for Carmelo.  Anthony Bennett, Waiters, and Deng for Melo?  Cleveland saves face on their draft picks and New York gets Melo-lite, Harden-lite, and a guy who at least looks as if he could play like Larry Johnson (NY fans love him!).

 

What is more likely is they would have to swap Bennett for Tristan Thompson.  Cleveland should still make this move.  Melo plays the 4.  CJ Miles has proven effective at the 3.  Move Jarret Jack into the starting SG spot and you've got yourself a decent starting unit.  Presuming Varejao can stay healthy they'll have a good starting 5...but Varejao won't stay healthy so they'll need to upgrade center sooner than later.  Maybe they can steal Hawes in FA?

 

Melo wants and NEEDS to win a chip. This was said by Jim Boeheim his Syracuse coach who's real tight with Melo "Carmelo NEEDS to win a chip". For someone who's watched every Knick game, living in NY, listening to all the NY sources and sport radio talk people from ESPN New York, analysts, listening to all the post game interviews... they all know Melo will go down as one of the most dominant scorers ever with no chip. He will NEVER go to Cleveland. He MIGHT go to Chicago. My prediction is he signs back with NY for $129 million which he is NOT worth but try telling Dolan that.

 

I live ini NY, I'm asian, and I HATED "Linsanity". Never bought a Linsanity t-shirt, never even bought his jersey but do I want it in NY again? Yes,  so I dont have to pay for NBA League Pass anymore. JG we had this discussion already. I think we agreed he could put up 16/7 in the West if it were his show. I think he could avg. easily 19-20/8 in the East (have you seen how bad the East is?) which contends for All-Star voting legit in the East.

 

I agree with you on the Waiters thing though JG. He gets pissed when Kyrie doesnt pass him the ball. Sometimes he thinks he should be a priority over Kyrie which is some what laughable. 

[rocketrick]

Melo wants and NEEDS to win a chip. This was said by Jim Boeheim his Syracuse coach who's real tight with Melo "Carmelo NEEDS to win a chip". For someone who's watched every Knick game, living in NY, listening to all the NY sources and sport radio talk people from ESPN New York, analysts, listening to all the post game interviews... they all know Melo will go down as one of the most dominant scorers ever with no chip. He will NEVER go to Cleveland. He MIGHT go to Chicago. My prediction is he signs back with NY for $129 million which he is NOT worth but try telling Dolan that.
 
I live ini NY, I'm asian, and I HATED "Linsanity". Never bought a Linsanity t-shirt, never even bought his jersey but do I want it in NY again? Yes,  so I dont have to pay for NBA League Pass anymore. JG we had this discussion already. I think we agreed he could put up 16/7 in the West if it were his show. I think he could avg. easily 19-20/8 in the East (have you seen how bad the East is?) which contends for All-Star voting legit in the East.
 
I agree with you on the Waiters thing though JG. He gets pissed when Kyrie doesnt pass him the ball. Sometimes he thinks he should be a priority over Kyrie which is some what laughable.

As a long-time NBA fan, I'm sorry to say, but I just don't see the fire and desire in Carmelo for a ring. I never have. Even when he made it to the Western Conf Finals with Denver a few seasons ago.

The ONLY chance Carmelo has for a ring is to join a proven team and be willing to NOT be the man.

In regards to Lin, if you desire a redoux in NY with Lin and Carmelo, good luck with that! Linsanity quickly ended once Carmelo returned to the starting lineup. They never meshed and I'm not sure why you or anyone else would think a redoux would bring different results.

[Knickabokkaz]

Just curious, do you guy agree with the notion that, "a team with Melo as its best player will never win it all"?

I said this 2 times on radio on ESPN New York radio host about Melo. "Don't build your offense around your best offensive player. You build your offense through the "system" of your team and personnel. Your star player will get his on his own".

 

Basically, I go totally away from Hero Ball. Like in San Antonio, the primary scorer is who? Tony Parker right? does anyone know he only averages 14 shots per game, 17.1 points per game? Even last year when some actually considered him an MVP candidate. Parker only averaged 15 shots per game, 20.3 points per game.

 

Melo can and would be the best "scorer" if he was on the Rockets with D12, Harden.. But I'll answer your question by saying, he could be the best player, but he has to be in the right system with a reallllly good supporting cast.

[Knickabokkaz]

As a long-time NBA fan, I'm sorry to say, but I just don't see the fire and desire in Carmelo for a ring. I never have. Even when he made it to the Western Conf Finals with Denver a few seasons ago.

The ONLY chance Carmelo has for a ring is to join a proven team and be willing to NOT be the man.

In regards to Lin, if you desire a redoux in NY with Lin and Carmelo, good luck with that! Linsanity quickly ended once Carmelo returned to the starting lineup. They never meshed and I'm not sure why you or anyone else would think a redoux would bring different results.

Well think of it this way, 1st 7 games created "Linsanity". then when Melo came back they went I think 2-6, Dantoni gets fired. Then with Woodson, the next 8 games. they went 7-1 with Melo and Lin... they had great team chemistry then Lin tore his meniscus. So basically, to me, it's a big fat "INCOMPLETE". People were judging this as something suppose to develop in 25 games. Thats why I call people stupid for saying "Lin and Melo never meshed, can't work"..  

Edited by Knickabokkaz, 12 February 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[thejohnnygold]

@Knickabokkaz-

 

Yeah, I agree that he wouldn't want to go to Cleveland (does he have a no-trade clause?).  I was just thinking about it from the teams' perspectives--not Melo's.

 

Regarding Lin--depending on his USG% and the quality of his teammates I believe he could put up really good numbers--maybe even better than those.  Just not sure how much it affects the win column...... (and yes, I am aware of his amazing record when "leading" a team so whoever is thinking about pointing that out--you can go ahead and holster your weapon )

[Knickabokkaz]

JG, Melo could go anywhere he wants after this year. Un-restricted FA

[thejohnnygold]

I understand that.  I'm talking about a trade.  He is still a player and unless he has a no-trade clause he can get traded--even to Cleveland.  That's kind of the point--if New York thinks they can't re-sign him (or decide not to) they should trade him now.

[Knickabokkaz]

When I first mentioned this trade to Rahat this was my thought.

 

Houstons needs:

Melo/Shump. 3rd star + Elite perimeter defender in Shump that can guard 1-2-3. an energy guy that can hit a 3.

 

Knicks needs: 

Lin/Asik/Dmo/1st rounder. Young ascending talent. From watching games, listening to analysts. Problems are guarding the PnR (Asik is a great in this area), Felton is just horrible (worst starting PG in the league that can't score and gets torched constantly by opposing PG's) Plus they need a playmaking PG.. which fits Lin's mold. 

[Cooper]

If you could get melo for asik/Lin and motie that's a steal but there's just nothing in it for the Knicks if melo leaves they are in bucks territory of awful if you're going to be that bad you might as well do it without paying 30million for asik and Lin, get a high lotto pick then a year later you have amare bargs and chandler off the books and loads of cap to spend poorly on more washed up guys as only Dolan could.

[Knickabokkaz]

If you could get melo for asik/Lin and motie that's a steal but there's just nothing in it for the Knicks if melo leaves they are in bucks territory of awful if you're going to be that bad you might as well do it without paying 30million for asik and Lin, get a high lotto pick then a year later you have amare bargs and chandler off the books and loads of cap to spend poorly on more washed up guys as only Dolan could.

Lin/Asik would expire the same exact time Amare and Tyson would expire anyway. What the Knicks would be getting is an ascending PG and an already good rebounder/defender in Asik. They do not have to sign them long term. I'd rather have Lin and Asik then a #1 pick because both are still young and established players. If you want to extend them after next season, then you can, if not, they will expire along with Amare and Tyson anyway. Atleast you have options still from a Knicks perspective.

 

So basically your still flexible in the 2015 if you want to be because your not committed to Lin and Asik after next year.

 

Lets say Lin goes to NY, averages 19-20/8 in the eastern conference with NO Melo. (JG lol dont get me started!) Wouldn't you say that's a whole lot better then a #1 pick? 

 

Lets say Asik continues to be a dominant force on D and rebounder, pnr defender. Isn't that worthy of a #1 pick? 

 

Not to mention, the Knicks would be getting DMo, another young ascending player... AND a #1 pick. 

 

All this for Melo/Shump

Edited by Knickabokkaz, 12 February 2014 - 07:55 PM.

[Cooper]

Asik isn't young and couldn't play with TC so there's no reason to have him around even if Lin gets 20/8 is Lin JR Hardaway? bargs TC a playoff team? No. Bad and cheap beats bad and expensive any way you slice it. Dmo and a late first doesn't change that.