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@  feelingsuper... : (27 February 2014 - 05:14 PM) Right after that he made it a point to mention it wasn't in a blowout game either, he said his 54 point game was in a competitive game.
@  feelingsuper... : (27 February 2014 - 05:13 PM) Curry was asked about his 54 point game last year and he first mentioned that he only scored 4 in the first and 50 in the last 3 quarters.
@  feelingsuper... : (27 February 2014 - 05:12 PM) Curry was just on with Colin Cowherd and I believe he took a couple shots at Harden.
@  miketheodio : (27 February 2014 - 06:45 AM) lots of shots missed at the rim =/
@  feelingsuper... : (27 February 2014 - 06:17 AM) I think the Rockets looked good but just ran out of gas and then struggled to stay focused. Parsons needs to figure out when he needs to stop shooting some nights.
@  MrLobble : (27 February 2014 - 06:13 AM) I actually hope we go on a super winning streak or lose a couple... i don't want to see LAC in the 1st rd
@  MrLobble : (27 February 2014 - 06:13 AM) or no Power Forward
@  Cooper : (27 February 2014 - 06:12 AM) not going to beat playoff teams with Parsons no showing and cold harden/lin.
@  MrLobble : (27 February 2014 - 06:09 AM) when can we promote Canaan into lins spot?
@  YaoMan : (27 February 2014 - 04:40 AM) I like this kid Hamilton!
@  YaoMan : (27 February 2014 - 04:39 AM) Too many turnovers again - unforced turnovers. What is Bev trying to dribble around Paul for? And that Howard pass to no one...
@  YaoMan : (27 February 2014 - 04:15 AM) I thought we were going to see another game like the one in early November...
@  Cooper : (27 February 2014 - 04:13 AM) can't beleive Turkoglu still plays professional basketball.
@  SadLakerFan : (26 February 2014 - 05:51 AM) That's true; it was a bit of a weird tangent - but I think I was just following up the previous comment. Perfect game from the Rockets. Looking forward to tomorrow.
@  miketheodio : (26 February 2014 - 05:37 AM) hamilton had a nice looking shot. canaan still looks a little hesitant/nervous.
@  feelingsuper... : (26 February 2014 - 05:35 AM) You lost me SadLaker, of all the things to talk about and that is the tangent you go on, okaaaayyyyy.
@  SadLakerFan : (26 February 2014 - 05:26 AM) If the lead drops to 10-15 points, that is.
@  SadLakerFan : (26 February 2014 - 05:17 AM) Absolutely; question is whether he can bring himself to do it. It's not that easy as a coach.
@  feelingsuper... : (26 February 2014 - 05:11 AM) That is a strange thing to say, McHale is on record recently saying he wants to rest Harden and Parsons. miketheodio you were right, we are getting a look at some 2nd unit combinations. Hamilton looks good and should provide competition.
@  SadLakerFan : (26 February 2014 - 05:00 AM) Test of McHale's fortitude - does he have the discipline to rest Parsons and Harden in anticipation of the LAC game?

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Harden's deficiencies and proficiencies…


39 replies to this topic

#1 Knickabokkaz

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    Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:32 PM

    Harden's deficiencies and proficiencies…

     

    For 1, I actually like Harden. Being the franchise player for this team. He seems to handle it well media wise, and on the court.. sometimes. Seems like a genuinely nice guy. Being a star of a team has many different aspects to cover … 

     

    Proficiencies and what he does well…:

     

    1. He's a game changer: His skill set is just as diverse as a lot of other superstars but I don't consider him a superstar just yet.

     

    2. Leadership: He rally's the troops, he takes control when needed. He takes responsibility for scoring when the team needs it most.

     

    3. Accountability: I see him yell at players when needed holding THEM responsible.

     

    Deficiencies and what he doesn't do well…:

     

    1. He's a game changer: Being a game changer on the offense doesn't surprise me, I want to see more GAME CHANGING DEFENSE that he so called "worked on" in the summer time that surprises me. The worst part of it is that Mchale does not hold him accountable, and Harden HIMSELF doesn't hold HIMSELF accountable. 

     

    Example: Postgame interview 'WE didn't play good defense" .. meaning his lackluster self didn't play good defense. His teammate after hitting 9 3 pointers in Philly… "I had the worst defensive game"  even after scoring 34 points and losing in overtime (yeah that Asian guy)

     

    2. Leadership: Being a good scorer when the team needs points is a priority of a player that has a "game changing" skill set. A franchise player. BUT being so young, he has to learn that being a REAL LEADER is making your teammates better, knowing when to let others make a play, knowing when to get it to this player or that player when he's hot. Thinking "I need to get this guy going before myself because I know I'll get it going in crunch time" Harden does TRY but I think his youth and lack of experience being a LEADER shows more then anything. Quotes from Parsons does not come without thought, or without reasoning. He said what he said for a REASON. In due time, I think he can be THAT LEADER you need him to be.

     

    3. Accountability: I said he holds his teammates responsible, but once again...now how about holding YOURSELF ACCOUNTABLE. As a franchise player, you have to KNOW what your responsible for, and what to push under the rug. Being frustrated yelling at teammates because they didn't give you the ball shows lack of maturity. Yelling at the coach and ignoring what he needs from him is another sign of being immature.  

     

     

    ALL of what I said is just my opinion, people can get mad, throw tantrums, argue with me, I'll tell you right now, I really could care less and I'll just be laughing my a** off reading your comments.


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    #2 feelingsupersonic

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    Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:46 PM

    Let me be the first to compliment you on your relatively balanced opinions that you have presented here. I agree with you to varying degrees but also believe that this is mostly conjecture on our parts and it's virtually impossible for fans like us to know what the lockerroom is like but we shouldn't let that keep us from having opinions.
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    #3 Knickabokkaz

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      Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:52 PM

      Let me be the first to compliment you on your relatively balanced opinions that you have presented here. I agree with you to varying degrees but also believe that this is mostly conjecture on our parts and it's virtually impossible for fans like us to know what the lockerroom is like but we shouldn't let that keep us from having opinions.

      You know I had a feeling you were going to be the first to comment, and I'm quite shocked that your not trying to say I'm biased in my opinions. Very surprised myself. Maybe we can all get along here.. hey hey I said MAYBE.

       

      But on another note. I just call it how I see it from the fans side. I can't pretend to know something from the locker room because I dont. I call what I see and if someone wants to disagree then that's fine. It's just what I see. 


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      #4 feelingsupersonic

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      Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:25 PM

      I believe that most of us Red94 forum members can at least get along whether we agree or not and if we keep our debates civilized and informative we can learn from each other. Even if we cannot get along established members should at least afford other fellow members respect during differences of opinion, we are all Rockets fans in some form or fashion right?

      I respect our differences in how we interpret situations. Is Harden immature? Well yes, 15 years ago I was pretty immature so I don't necessarily hold that against him. I believe he will mature and don't necessarily see much to say he will be problem player but does he lack maturity right now sure. Also in interviews I agree he doesn't quite word his commentary well for public consumption but from what I gather he is not the most verbal guy plus he is still sort of young and at a very early stage of stardom, he will probably evolve in my opinion. Now I am a glass half full guy so sure maybe I am not critical enough that's fair but it's my opinion and in the big picture of the NBA I think you and I are closer in agreement than you'd think.
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      #5 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:40 PM

      I guess I don't really know what I expected, but this wasn't it :lol:

       

      I agree with you and FSS.  He's on his way--he's not there yet.

       

      I noticed you still managed to sneak in a little bit about Lin...just couldn't resist, could ya? :P

       

      Nice post.  I think I was expecting something controversial :o


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      #6 timetodienow1234567

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      Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:24 PM

      Harden is still immature but he's not Richard Sherman... Hopefully he will get there. Look at the Cavs with Kyrie. It's hard to win when your best player only plays half of the game. Luckily we have Dwight who is better than Harden IMO, who plays hard and we don't have any problem players(Asik excluded) so Harden is hidden.

      Edited by timetodienow1234567, 31 January 2014 - 11:27 PM.

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      Why so Serious? :D


      #7 Knickabokkaz

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        Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:59 PM

        I guess I don't really know what I expected, but this wasn't it :lol:
         
        I agree with you and FSS.  He's on his way--he's not there yet.
         
        I noticed you still managed to sneak in a little bit about Lin...just couldn't resist, could ya? :P
         
        Nice post.  I think I was expecting something controversial :o


        Lol JG, I had to put a little nudge in there, but I stayed honest and I don't see how anyone can't agree with atleast 1/2 of what I said.

        I believe that most of us Red94 forum members can at least get along whether we agree or not and if we keep our debates civilized and informative we can learn from each other. Even if we cannot get along established members should at least afford other fellow members respect during differences of opinion, we are all Rockets fans in some form or fashion right?
        I respect our differences in how we interpret situations. Is Harden immature? Well yes, 15 years ago I was pretty immature so I don't necessarily hold that against him. I believe he will mature and don't necessarily see much to say he will be problem player but does he lack maturity right now sure. Also in interviews I agree he doesn't quite word his commentary well for public consumption but from what I gather he is not the most verbal guy plus he is still sort of young and at a very early stage of stardom, he will probably evolve in my opinion. Now I am a glass half full guy so sure maybe I am not critical enough that's fair but it's my opinion and in the big picture of the NBA I think you and I are closer in agreement than you'd think.


        In any forum, tension builds because there's so many different opinions. Not everyone's going to agree, it would kind of be boring if everyone agreed on everything. You gotta admit, you liked that "Asian guy" quote!
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        #8 Steven

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          Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:47 AM

          Harden is still immature but he's not Richard Sherman... Hopefully he will get there. Look at the Cavs with Kyrie. It's hard to win when your best player only plays half of the game. Luckily we have Dwight who is better than Harden IMO, who plays hard and we don't have any problem players(Asik excluded) so Harden is hidden.

          You're right. Hardin didn't go to Stanford, or in order to be a household name (which is extremely hard as a CB) do the ultimate wrestling heel shoot interview during live TV after making the play to win the game. Sherman is playing a character similar to any actor/ professional wrestler.

          Edited by Steven, 01 February 2014 - 08:49 AM.

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          #9 RudyT1995

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            Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:05 AM

            Harden is still immature but he's not Richard Sherman... Hopefully he will get there.  

             

            I hope he gets there too.  Would love to see Harden play D with the same intensity and focus that Sherman does.  


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            #10 Willk

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              Posted 01 February 2014 - 11:52 PM

               

              Harden's deficiencies and proficiencies…

               

              For 1, I actually like Harden. Being the franchise player for this team. He seems to handle it well media wise, and on the court.. sometimes. Seems like a genuinely nice guy. Being a star of a team has many different aspects to cover … 

               

              Proficiencies and what he does well…:

               

              1. He's a game changer: His skill set is just as diverse as a lot of other superstars but I don't consider him a superstar just yet.

               

              2. Leadership: He rally's the troops, he takes control when needed. He takes responsibility for scoring when the team needs it most.

               

              3. Accountability: I see him yell at players when needed holding THEM responsible.

               

              Deficiencies and what he doesn't do well…:

               

              1. He's a game changer: Being a game changer on the offense doesn't surprise me, I want to see more GAME CHANGING DEFENSE that he so called "worked on" in the summer time that surprises me. The worst part of it is that Mchale does not hold him accountable, and Harden HIMSELF doesn't hold HIMSELF accountable. 

               

              Example: Postgame interview 'WE didn't play good defense" .. meaning his lackluster self didn't play good defense. His teammate after hitting 9 3 pointers in Philly… "I had the worst defensive game"  even after scoring 34 points and losing in overtime (yeah that Asian guy)

               

              2. Leadership: Being a good scorer when the team needs points is a priority of a player that has a "game changing" skill set. A franchise player. BUT being so young, he has to learn that being a REAL LEADER is making your teammates better, knowing when to let others make a play, knowing when to get it to this player or that player when he's hot. Thinking "I need to get this guy going before myself because I know I'll get it going in crunch time" Harden does TRY but I think his youth and lack of experience being a LEADER shows more then anything. Quotes from Parsons does not come without thought, or without reasoning. He said what he said for a REASON. In due time, I think he can be THAT LEADER you need him to be.

               

              3. Accountability: I said he holds his teammates responsible, but once again...now how about holding YOURSELF ACCOUNTABLE. As a franchise player, you have to KNOW what your responsible for, and what to push under the rug. Being frustrated yelling at teammates because they didn't give you the ball shows lack of maturity. Yelling at the coach and ignoring what he needs from him is another sign of being immature.  

               

               

              ALL of what I said is just my opinion, people can get mad, throw tantrums, argue with me, I'll tell you right now, I really could care less and I'll just be laughing my a** off reading your comments.

               

              You made some good points in this post. Harden's defense has been horrible and needs to improve dramatically if the Rockets are going to be title contenders. If Harden is going to talked about in the same category as LBJ, Durant, George, Paul, and Rose this will have to improve. Unfortunately for the Rockets, according to Basketball-reference.com and Richard Li, Harden has been the best defender out of the 4 guards on the roster. If Harden improves his defense, it will help to hide the other guards deficiencies. On a side note, it does not bode well for Miami that Harden has almost the same defensive rating as LBJ.

              I do disagree with you on other points.

              1. Accountability - Yes, in the Lakers game Harden did yell at Lin. Also in that game Lin yelled at Howard, Howard yelled at Lin. None of this a big deal. Harden rarely yells at teammates. Every once in awhile, he does yell at a teammate. Parsons occasionally yells at teammates when they pass the ball at his ankles or behind him. Lin yells at his teammates when he there will be help behind on defense and there turns out not to be. Howard yells at his guards when their player gets by them before Howard is ready to help out. Great teams don't completely avoid clashes; they create an environment in which friction can be dealt with. It seems everybody is friends on this team so obviously no one takes this personally even if fans take it personally. As far as the Mchale comment, superstars are necessary to win championships. As a coach you need your superstar to be on your side. That is why Spoelstra does not yell at LBJ or yank him from games. Phil Jackson never yelled at MJ or "held him accountable." You what coach held MJ accountable? Doug Collins. It is no coincidence that Doug Collins was fired a year before the Bulls won their first championship. Magic was "held accountable" by Paul Westhead and what happened there? Jerry Sloan/ Deron Williams? The only coach that really held his players accountable and got away with it has been Pop.

              2. Post game comments - it is really hard to know exactly what is meant by post game comments especially when they are taken out of context. For example - the Parsons comments. You take them to mean that they play too much ISO ball with Harden. Many take his comments to mean that the ball has to move much more when you do not have an offensive player like Harden. Much in the same way that OKC would have to play less ISO if Durant would get hurt now.

              As far as using "we" instead of using "I", probably not a big deal. Harden never pointed a finger at anybody else or called anybody else out. That is when problems begin. In the middle of the NYK's 6 game losing streak in 2011/12, #17 once said that "we" have to play better on offense and "we" have to play better defense. One can say he should have said "I" there. Like i said it is hard to know exactly what is meant. And seems like harden is a good teammate:

              Jeremy Lin@JLin7Jan 28

              And a shoutout to @JHarden13 for always looking out for his teammates and hooking us up!! pic.twitter.com/NrC91xjQsj

               

              good post even though I disagree w/ many things.


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              #11 bladad

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                Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:12 PM

                Anybody else see a Carmelo/harden comparison?

                Super talented and driven offensively, piss poor team/individual defender. A black hole when it comes to moving the ball, ISO driven offensive player, supposed pillar of the franchise.
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                #12 Cooper

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                  Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:27 PM

                  5 ast from a black hole? By that logic everyone on the team is a black hole.
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                  #13 feelingsupersonic

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                  Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:25 PM

                  Anybody else see a Carmelo/harden comparison?
                  Super talented and driven offensively, piss poor team/individual defender. A black hole when it comes to moving the ball, ISO driven offensive player, supposed pillar of the franchise.


                  This is not the forum if you're looking for members to agree with you on a Harden-Anthony comparison sure to the untrained eye there are similarities but an informed NBA fan would know there are differences in efficiency. If you have an opinion on the matter clean up the language and post statistics. Sorry to break it to you, Harden and Howard are the franchise players and that's something I would guess Alexander and Morey believe.
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                  #14 thejohnnygold

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                  Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:28 PM

                  Anybody else see a Carmelo/harden comparison?

                  Super talented and driven offensively, piss poor team/individual defender. A black hole when it comes to moving the ball, ISO driven offensive player, supposed pillar of the franchise.

                   

                  Such comments only serve to showcase a huge bias.  Paired with your other posts this statement/opinion carries little value.

                   

                  Let's look at this year's numbers to see what the reality is.

                   

                                    USG%          Assist %         TS%      APG     PGA (total points generated by assist)

                  Carmelo       32.1             15.5             .556        3.1        333

                  Harden         27.2             24.3             .596        5.5        526

                   

                  Harden averages 1 assist for every 3 field goal attempts.  Carmelo averages 1 assist for every 7 field goal attempts.

                   

                  Yes, Harden's got flaws and is still maturing/learning.  Comparing him to Carmelo just doesn't hold water.

                   

                  Funny thing: Carmelo's usg% is down from 35.6% last season--which was tops in the league.  Carmelo has not had a usg% below 30 since 2005-6 season and never had one below 28.5%  Meanwhile, his career ast% is 15.8.


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                  #15 rocketrick

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                    Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:42 PM

                    Anybody else see a Carmelo/harden comparison?

                    Super talented and driven offensively, piss poor team/individual defender. A black hole when it comes to moving the ball, ISO driven offensive player, supposed pillar of the franchise.


                    Coming from a LOF that presumably prefers Harden gone so his hero gets the ball the entire game. Funny that he mentions Carmelo as history has already shown how poorly Carmelo and Lin played together. Linsanity occurred primarily because Carmelo was out with an injury.
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                    #16 timetodienow1234567

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                    Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:02 PM

                    Carmelo gets a bad rap.
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                    Why so Serious? :D


                    #17 Steven

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                      Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:28 PM

                      Carmelo gets a bad rap.

                      Webber says it best about Melo. He is a ball stop. Melo gets the rap he deserves, nothing more nothing less.
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                      #18 timetodienow1234567

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                      Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:24 PM

                      There isn't enough talent on the Knicks. If he wasn't shooting like he is this year they'd be winless.
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                      Why so Serious? :D


                      #19 rocketrick

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                        Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:50 PM

                        There isn't enough talent on the Knicks. If he wasn't shooting like he is this year they'd be winless.


                        Yet with all their injuries and problems, the Knicks in my estimation will likely make the playoffs and can probably look forward to being swept in the first round.
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                        #20 timetodienow1234567

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                        Posted 02 February 2014 - 09:55 PM

                        Because of Melo and chandler
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                        Why so Serious? :D





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