64 replies to this topic

[majik19]

In case you missed it, here is the ESPN article link: http://espn.go.com/n...redictions-2014

 

The very last question and last response is:

 

 

 

5. One surprise that will happen in 2014 is ...

Strauss: The Rockets will trade James Harden. He's bad at defense and they care about things others don't seek to quantify. I could see Houston trading Harden for some depth and high draft picks.

 

I really have absolutely no idea where this guy is coming from. He really thinks that Morey would go back and trade Harden, the best offensive shooting guard in the league, for depth and high draft picks? Not to mention he was tailor made for the offense that Morey and McHale want to run out there - I don't think Morey could have created a robot that scored more efficiently than Harden does. There is absolutely no player in the league outside of the Lebron/Durant stratosphere that Morey would want more than Harden. 

 

I would also say this was a reason to sign Howard in the first place - shore up the defense so that Harden doesn't have to be great on defense. That being said, he's going to have to at least improve from revolving door status for this team to be a contender. Maybe he can bring the focus every night in the playoffs. I love watching players who go all out on every possession on both sides of the floor, but the playoffs are where it matters. 

[Knickabokkaz]

In case you missed it, here is the ESPN article link: http://espn.go.com/n...redictions-2014

The very last question and last response is:


I don't think Morey could have created a robot that scored more efficiently than Harden does. There is absolutely no player in the league outside of the Lebron/Durant stratosphere that Morey would want more than Harden.

Wow! I almost threw up my lunch at work seeing this reply laughing my a** off. A robot that can score as efficient as Harden? LOL he's shooting 44% FG (average), 31% from 3 (well below average), yeah he sells out real good going to the line but you might want to over look that "efficiency" statement. He's Melo as a volume shooter. I'll say it again, just because you shoot the most and score the most, doesn't make you a great player. He averages 16.3 shots a game averaging 24ppg. That's AVERAGE at most.

"There is absolutely no player in the league outside of the Lebron/Durant stratosphere that Morey would want more than Harden." Another quote that made me laugh. I'd take Paul George in a HEARTBEAT over Harden any day and twice on Sunday. Scores more efficient, and is a 2way player. 46.8 FG%, 39.3% from 3 AND plays 100x better Defense. 23.5ppg

[2016Champions]

I would take Paul George too. HE out plays Harden everytime. It's very rare to find a player who is as good on both ends as Paul George is, we would be an elite team on both sides of the floor with him.

Edited by 2016Champions, 02 January 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[majik19]

Seems like Harden has fallen out of favor fast around here.

 

I'll admit I missed on mentioning Paul George, but Paul George is NOT more efficient than Harden offensively:

 

George: 23.5 ppg on 17.2 shots/game

Harden: 24.0 ppg on 16.3 shots/game

 

Also, Harden is shooting below his norm on the 3 pointer (31% vs. 36% career) and about on par for his career everywhere else while George is above his average in every category (FG%, 3pt%, FT%), so some regression to the norm would yield Harden even more efficiency. Also Harden has been fighting nagging injuries all season while George has been pretty healthy. All that being said, both are young players and still improving, and we're splitting hairs on offense.

 

It's no contest defensively, which is why yes, Harden is less valuable than George in terms of trade value. One thing that is overlooked when comparing the defense of these two players, however, is that George plays in a better scheme with multiple plus defenders. Don't get me wrong: George is light years ahead of Harden on D, but having a plus defender at every position except the 4 certainly helps out George. 

 

All that I was getting at with the "robot" comment was that Harden plays exactly as a player Morey would want does - shoots 3's and at the rim and makes a ton of free throws. When he was trying to get Carmelo years ago, he was just trying to get a star - when he traded for Harden, he got a player who fit his philosophy. 

[webattorney]

Call Harden an offensive star but not a super star.  Please, you are demeaning the word "super star". 

[majik19]

Man everyone is really harsh on Harden - have you all forgotten that this was the guy that made us a playoff contender in the first place?

 

I guess it depends on your definition of super star whether Harden is one or not. He ranked #8 in ESPN's NBA Rank before the season began... so maybe super star is limited to top 5 players? 

 

Even with his uneven season, the experts are picking him as the 3rd guard in the Western Conference, with only Paul and Curry in front of him (both point guards, btw). Kevin Pelton picked him as the 3rd guard in his Per Diem column (insider only) and 5 on 5 picked him as well as the 3rd guard here: http://espn.go.com/n...r-reserve-picks

[Knickabokkaz]

Other then Harden being a good "scorer" just like Melo (IMO Melos a much better scorer then Harden) can someone tell me what else does he bring to the Rockets?
Leadership - No
Defense - No
Ego - Yes
Team player - No
Blames teammates instead of himself - Yes
Selfish - Yes
Disregards coaches plays - Yes

If you ask me, he's a Cancer

[majik19]

He's not only a good scorer, he's an elite scorer. That's not an easy trait to find in the NBA and is a must-have for any contender. 

 

How has he shown ego?

How he is not a team player or is selfish? (He averages 5.2 apg/game, good for 24th in the NBA, and 20 of the guys ahead of him are point guards). 

How does he disregard coach's plays? McHale notoriously doesn't call plays and lets them run the offense.

 

I'm not sure how he is a cancer.

Edited by majik19, 02 January 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[Cooper]

It would take a season meltdown for them to seriously consider trading harden. Even then it would have to be a knockout deal like top 5 pick this year + good young player or second lotto pick and future picks or right to swap future picks.

[BenQueens]

[Harden]'s Melo as a volume shooter. I'll say it again, just because you shoot the most and score the most, doesn't make you a great player. He averages 16.3 shots a game averaging 24ppg. That's AVERAGE at most.
 

 

So Harden averages about 1.5 points a shot. Melo averages 25 points on 20 shots, so he is both less efficient and higher volume. Think what you like about his defense, but it's silly to claim he's a volume scorer: He's more efficient than Tim Duncan (14 on 12 shots), Parker (18 on 14), LeBron (27.5 on 20), and more or less the same as Durant. We can all pine for a more well-rounded game, but Harden puts points on the board very efficiently.

[PKM]

Bahahaha. Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

Seriously, that's the only response that such a ridiculous response merits.  Now, I'd toss in Anthony Davis as a third player who I'd think Morey would easily trade Harden for, because Davis is damn good already.  But that's it. 

[majik19]

 Now, I'd toss in Anthony Davis as a third player who I'd think Morey would easily trade Harden for, because Davis is damn good already.  But that's it. 

 

You're probably right, but his health scares me. Sure has missed a lot of games in his young career. 

[areteejay789]

Im sure knickabokkaz is just trolling us here... Harden is clearly the better scorer/distributor/creator between him and melo. and Harden is probably only slightly worse on D than Anthony. The only clear advantage Melo has is rebounding, and thats to be expected given that he plays the 4, and is just much bigger. I (and almost all rocket fans) would take harden over melo literally 100% of the time. 

[Knickabokkaz]

Im sure knickabokkaz is just trolling us here... Harden is clearly the better scorer/distributor/creator between him and melo. and Harden is probably only slightly worse on D than Anthony. The only clear advantage Melo has is rebounding, and thats to be expected given that he plays the 4, and is just much bigger. I (and almost all rocket fans) would take harden over melo literally 100% of the time. 

Harden gets to the free throw line better.  Put this way in a game 7, if you could take Melo playing the Heat WITH Lebron guarding Melo the whole game, I could almost guarantee you that Melo puts up 30+. Lebron out of all people does not want to guard Melo. Ask any NBA expert, analyst, watever.. He's literally the hardest 1/1 guy to guard in the NBA next to Durant. Now if you put Harden in a game 7 against say a Tony Allen all game, I guarantee you he struggles to put up 20.

 

I'm not even a Melo fan, he takes horrible shots, he doesn't make his teammates better, he takes too many shots but to say Harden is a better scorer then Melo is blasphemy.

Edited by Knickabokkaz, 02 January 2014 - 08:58 PM.

[Steven]

Harden gets to the free throw line better. Put this way in a game 7, if you could take Melo playing the Heat WITH Lebron guarding Melo the whole game, I could almost guarantee you that Melo puts up 30+. Lebron out of all people does not want to guard Melo. Ask any NBA expert, analyst, watever.. He's literally the hardest 1/1 guy to guard in the NBA next to Durant. Now if you put Harden in a game 7 against say a Tony Allen all game, I guarantee you he struggles to put up 20.

I'm not even a Melo fan, he takes horrible shots, he doesn't make his teammates better, he takes too many shots but to say Harden is a better scorer then Melo is blasphemy.

And the Knicks team as a whole, would score 50 points. Cause in order to score 30+ on LeBron, Melo would have to shot 40+ times.

[2016Champions]

Melo is the better scorer but Harden has more impact on the offensive end. The big difference to me is their passing ability, followed by shot selection, both of which sets Harden far apart from Melo.

Edited by 2016Champions, 02 January 2014 - 09:21 PM.

[majik19]

Melo is the better scorer but Harden has more impact on the offensive end. The big difference to me is their passing ability, followed by shot selection, both of which sets Harden far apart from Melo.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. Melo is definitely a better one-on-one offensive player than Harden and everyone in the league not named Durant. I may even consider him a better scorer than Lebron (though it's pretty damn close). 

[Alituro]

Strauss is just setting himself up to be the first who said it if something happens...

 

Here, I'm going to proclaim that the Heat trade LeBron before the end of the season. That way if it happens everybody will say "Alituro Called It!" If it doesn't happen then everyone will forget it was ever said.

 

Here's a bold proclamation: Harden isn't going anywhere, anytime soon

[areteejay789]

Melo is the better scorer but Harden has more impact on the offensive end. The big difference to me is their passing ability, followed by shot selection, both of which sets Harden far apart from Melo.

 

I disagree. part of being a good scorer is knowing what shots to take, and where to take them from. Melo is a better bad shot maker, but Harden (most of the time) just refuses to take bad shots. Harden knows its better to pass to someone else than taking a bad shot. Being a good scorer includes knowing when not to score.

[thenit]

You guys need to read the question before saying that the answer is crazy.

 

Strauus just answered what would be the biggest surprise of 2014 look at the other contributors they said stuff that isn't likely to happen. Nothing he said is controversial. Harden won't be traded until we have had another coach or two before we can establish that harden is the problem.

 

Its easier to get rid of the coach than your best player unless its proven that he is the main culprit. Name one player that was traded against his will who was the best player in their team and in his prime. Gay is the only one I can think of and that is because Hollinger stats just proved he sucked even though his averages was decent. Look how good Toronto has played without him.

 

Harden won't be traded, and if that happens it will be year 4 of his contract. Its a bigger chance that we have 4 different coaches each of the next few years during his contract than Harden being traded.