39 replies to this topic

[Rahat Huq]

I know it's being discussed in other threads, but wanted to make a new thread.  

 

If the Knicks were willing to move Carmelo for Asik and Lin as the heart of the deal (might have to include others like Greg Smith, Donatas, etc.; even as a 3-way if they don't want Lin back), for Carmelo, would you do it?

 

Naturally, with Carmelo, your offense goes from best in the league to potentially historically dominant.  Talk about a stretch '4'.  You now also have a postup threat as well.  A lineup of Melo, Parsons, Howard, Harden, and whomever at point guard would be close to unguardable.  On the flip side, you could see issues over who dominates the ball at the end of the game.

 

Obviously, you're not doing yourself any favors on the defensive end.  But with that being said, I don't think Melo is necessarily a downgrade from Terrence Jones.  And also, while defense is this team's biggest problem, I don't think you're fixing that through a major trade (especially when probably your best defender on the team--Asik--is your main trade chip.)  Their defensive problems stem from coaching schemes; they need a backup wing defender because Parsons-Harden aren't being traded anytime soon...and you don't need Asik/Lin to acquire one of those.

 

The most underrated aspect also would be that you'd have a fresh slate in the summer if you decided not to bring back Carmelo.  That'd give you a chance to look at Bosh, if the Heat break up.

[timetodienow1234567]

I don't think they pull the trigger without Parsons included.

[Steven]

No. Melo walks at the end if the year.

[feelingsupersonic]

It's really hard for me to come to a final conclusion because I believe if you can acquire a star player you do it every time. Now saying that if there was ever a fit that I had doubts about Anthony on this Rockets roster is definitely one. I cannot reconcile those two things at this point enough to have an opinion.

Also, I wonder where Anthony is mentally. I wonder if this start in New York has humbled him or changed him in any way. The Rockets would have to be in touch with his camp and see where he is.

Morey and Alexander in my opinion would need to run this by Harden, Howard and McHale and see how they view this. I think it's a lot of moving parts and if the team made the conference finals it would be a small miracle with a splash of luck. The expectations hoisted on a big 3 of Harden, Anthony and Howard would be unrealistic but there might be enough cushion in a city like Houston to absorb the expectations with the sense of excitement tha would come with having a bonafide big 3.

[Cooper]

Melo might stay only place to go really would be LA as Melo has pretty much the largest availbe max contract that anyone could under the new CBA. (wiz might be able to carve out enough space), even if he left it would obviously not be ideal but woudlnt be a killer with 11mill or more cap room. If melo would work more in the post and less ISO that's a lot of talent for solid but not great players in Asik/Lin. Not sure I'm sold on the idea but it would be interesting.

[RollingWave]

I have doubts of this historically great claim, let's consider this for a moment, the Rockets currently have a better offensive effeciency than the Heat, offensively speaking, is Harden / Melo / Dwight really a step above Lebron / Wade / Bosh? I'm fairly sure the Heat have the best offensive player of the 6 and the Rockets have the worst in that group. The Laker 4 last year, even when only in the context of lineups with the 4 of them, were far far from the best offense ever, but that might have been the 4 best offense talent lineup in a career context ever.

 

Offense is a lot more of a result of system than most people seem to assume, for example, the current best offense in the league as of today is actually the Blazsers, their best player is probably the 4th best player on the Heat.

 

meanwhile, I'm quite sure even Tom Thibedeau can't hide both Melo and Harden on defense at the same time.

 

 

As for this trade, it doesn't make that much sense for either side, for Houston, Melo is everything the Rocket offensive system stands against,  (i should note that outside of last year he's also never been a consistent volume 3 shooter.) there's going to be some massive usage conflict as well, unless your saying your going to use Harden or Melo as the 6th man .  on top of that, the defense with 2 huge holes would be nearly impossible to overcome.

 

For New York, their roster is a huge mess at this point, it's hard to see how they can rebuild from this point with Melo going out, Lin and Asik aren't much of a rebuild piece, they can get you to be decent quite easily, but beyond that it's hard to see,  then again, given that New York has no draft pick for like the next decade, it doesn't make sense for them to suck either. but either way, Lin and Asik as rebuilding asset is not the most ideal.

[RudyT1995]

It wouldn't work out.  When you pay max money to three guys, you need at least one of them to have to leadership skills.  

[kevingan]

I doubt it could happen, because James Dolan is a moron, too proud to take Lin back, and the worst owner in sports--but it would actually be an excellent trade for both teams, and maybe even better for the Knicks (who need to rebuild and have no draft picks--at least let them work with some cap room).  Melo at the 4 on the Rockets is sort of an amazing idea: they might average 200 a game!  And give up 190--but that still wins.

[tombrokeoff]

on the surface i say no.  on the other hand i like the idea that it could just be a half season type rental and thus, if it failed, it wouldnt strap us down moving forward.  id say im leaning towards 55% no 45% yes.

Edited by tombrokeoff, 06 December 2013 - 11:09 PM.

[tombrokeoff]

also keep in mind, i most likely would have flat out rejected this if you hadnt brought it up, Rahat.  if its even within reason to debate it in your mind, than that sways me a lot.

Edited by tombrokeoff, 06 December 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Rahat Huq]

also keep in mind, i most likely would have flat out rejected this if you hadnt brought it up, Rahat.  if its even within reason to debate it in your mind, than that sways me a lot.

You're too kind.  As you said, the big point for me is the fact that it could be a rental.  That really opens up possibilities. 

[tombrokeoff]

just being honest.  over the 3 or 4 years or however long its been of reading your opinion / analysis on here (and twitter), i respect it a lot.

[tombrokeoff]

i think you can break it down and look at it like this:

 

Is there a better trade option available?  (of course this is subjective and based on opinon, but!) If the answer is yes, then of course you dont make this trade.  If the answer happens to be no, then...

 

Next you ask yourself, are we going to win it all this year, as currently constructed?  Again, if the answer is yes, you dont make this trade.  But if you think the answer is no...

 

Are Lin and Omer pieces that will help lead this team to a Championship? If you think so, trade answer is no.  But odds are good the answer is no they wont be pieces.  So therefore you roll the dice and make the trade.

 

Looking back on all of that, I believe the most important question is:  is there a better package available?

Edited by tombrokeoff, 06 December 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[Buckko]

I disagree, Lin and asik are pieces to a championship. So I wouldn't do that trade.

[tombrokeoff]

I disagree, Lin and asik are pieces to a championship. So I wouldn't do that trade.

 

so by saying this youre saying 1 of 2 things - we either win it at this season and/or next OR asik resigns here.  i just dont see how asik doesnt get traded eventually.  regardless of his value, morey wont lose him for nothing once his contract expires.

[tombrokeoff]

also, technically, you werent disagreeing with me.  i never stated how i would answer any of those questions in my if/then breakdown.  but to go ahead and do that, well at least the lin asik question, i dont see them being part of a championship here.  simply because of asiks desire to start and because i dont see it happening this year.  aside from that, i see asik a part of a championship team before i see lin a part of one.  no knock on lin.  i like what hes brought this year when healthy and i know he helps our team.  i just think hes easily replaceable.  way more so that what asik, considering what the latter provides in relief.

Edited by tombrokeoff, 07 December 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[tombrokeoff]

and to further clarify.  i am not in any way saying we wont win a championship with lin on this team.  just saying that i dont believe he is a 100% necessary ingredient.

[Buckko]

Easily replaceable ehh? Even though we are deep, no one matches Lin's very efficient production off the bench along with his assists and facilitating skills. His stats were basically front runner for 6MOY before he got injured. So riddle me this, how are we going to easily replace him?

[tombrokeoff]

ok good point and poor choice of words on my part.  i guess all that i am getting at is that i dont believe he is a 100% necessary piece.  that doesnt mean i want him gone.

[tombrokeoff]

dont want this to turn into a lin thread.  i just broke down the trade scenario that rahat proposed which happened to include jeremy.