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@  rocketrick : (01 December 2013 - 05:42 PM) Parsons should have been resting like 3 weeks ago. However, since he is on the bottom of the totem pole, so to speak, no rest for the weary.
@  2016Champions : (01 December 2013 - 02:32 PM) Yeah give Casspi more minutes
@  RollingWave : (01 December 2013 - 02:09 PM) They need to rest Parsons, that back is scaring me, vs Utah seem to be as good of a time as any
@  2016Champions : (01 December 2013 - 05:25 AM) Yeah its basically a weapon and he's getting better at hitting his target
@  CanSayNOTC : (01 December 2013 - 04:39 AM) That's twice I've seen Duncan bruise someone with his kneebrace.
@  2016Champions : (01 December 2013 - 04:03 AM) Great win. Man these injuries are scaring me.
@  feelingsuper... : (01 December 2013 - 03:55 AM) Yes, Dallas and Memphis lost!
@  feelingsuper... : (01 December 2013 - 03:53 AM) Wow, I'm shocked they held on. I am impressed with Harden and Jones. The Rockets have beat Portland and San Antonio, impressive.
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:51 AM) Nice win for the Rockets, maybe complicated things a little bit in the end, but a win is a win
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:47 AM) Parsons is down
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:47 AM) 4 point lead with 16 seconds remaining, oh God
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:44 AM) YESS!!!!!
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:30 AM) I totally agree with that FSS
@  feelingsuper... : (01 December 2013 - 03:27 AM) The Spurs have a system that has been on place a decade. They make adjustments and plug in players and keep doing what they do. The Rockets are searching for a system and working out roles. It cannot be compared.
@  feelingsuper... : (01 December 2013 - 03:24 AM) These and of instead of this and if in the post below.
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:24 AM) Chemistry I expect the Rockets to have plenty of next season
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:23 AM) Yeah, the Spurs have the best team chemistry in the league, along with the greatest coach
@  feelingsuper... : (01 December 2013 - 03:22 AM) This two teams cannot even be compared in terms if development and where they are on their respective timelines.
@  jorgeaam : (01 December 2013 - 03:19 AM) Well, there's no way of not blowing a 20 point lead when Brooks and Harden are covering Tony Parker
@  feelingsuper... : (01 December 2013 - 03:19 AM) Well of course, that's the Spurs. I expected this.

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THE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF A TRADE


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#1 rockets best fan

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:07 PM

I was reading an exchange between 2016 and JG about whether each expected Bev to be resigned or not and it got me thinking about the teams financial future. WARNING.....this thread isn't about whether we will be able to get some of the proposed players that will be listed here, but more on how each of these players would change our outlook financially. I think Morey is taking his time choosing his next move because he understands the next trade we make is going to steer us in a direction of limiting our flexibility. up to now that's been the big word.......FLEXIBILITY. if we acquire another star or semi-star type player we will have set our course financially. I'll try to be as reasonable as possible on trade scenarios. this will be more about what said athletes cost the team in assets rather than teams involved. we must also consider what some of our present players/assets will cost to keep. there are players who fall between the gaps of these categories(require more or less in trade), but this will sum up the vast majority. we will only look at a 3 year window and even that can be an eternity in the NBA 

 

1. Kevin Love..........some will say we can't get him. if Minny continues it downward spiral......maybe? regardless lets say a trade of the following..... Rockets send out Asik, Lin, T-Jones or D-Mo and 2014 first rounder and 2016 first rounder. Love makes 14.7 this year.....15.7 next year with an option for another year at 16.7.............to trade for Love locks us in for the next 3 years especially considering we are probably going to have to take back an unfavorable contract with Love to make the numbers work. this represents the star trade. we can group players in this category like Horford or LMA. a trade like this basically raids the vaults of all tradable assets

 

2. Deng............this is the next level down and while not as restrictive as #1, we will still burn off one of our best trading chips in Asik. lets say the Rockets send out Asik, D-Mo. Deng makes 14.2 this year and is an unrestricted FA after that. if we're going to give up good assets I would think that we are intent on keeping the player traded for around. I don't think Morey is looking at rental type players right now, but we'll explore that later. so if we resign Deng.....lets say he gives us a discount and we get him for 11-12 a year. we will still have erased two good assets and lock ourselves into limited flexibility

 

3. Afflalo/impact player non-star..................this keeps the door open with flexibility, but the catch 22 here is said player the Rockets would be receiving must be seen as equal value to other GM's to not have lost value on an important asset as Asik plus be in position to help the Rockets presently on the floor.

 

4. Hawes/rental type........this opens flexibility, but also depletes our asset in Asik for little gain except a draft pick. while I expect the Rockets to continue to develop players.......we are in win now mode. letting go valuable assets for future consideration is probably low on the totem pole to Morey right now unless said draft pick has potential to land in the lottery

 

Any trade must be weighed against the backdrop of a decision on how to handle the Parsons retention. since I expect Parsons between 9 -11 per year and Les's indication he intend to retain him, that amount must be considered within this next trade whether it be dole out next year or the following year. also wherever we send Asik must be a place where he can not cause problems for us much like the Harden trade is doing for OKC. other things that must be weighed is the retention of role players....aka Bev, Garcia, Brooks. I expect Morey to keep what we need in role players easily, but how this next trade goes will affect the core of the team both on the court and in the wallet must be considered equally. if we lock ourselves in we must be sure that that's the team we want to go to battle with because major upgrades would be unrealistic after that point. if we accept role players.....will that get us over the hump? if we choose the rental route will we be able to replace that talent once gone? discussing all these trade ideas is fun, but there is a lot more on Morey's plate. many think as long as a trade works on the trade machine it's good for us when nothing could be further for the truth. if you really want to know what the Rockets will do......watch the MONEY


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you can only warn a man that the bridge is out.....if he keeps driving he's on his own B)


#2 Buckko

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    Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:26 PM

    I expect no trade during the season unless for a pick, asik's defense is too valuable now the offseason is a different story. I would be curious if we could get Parsons for maybe smaller than 9 million.


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    #3 thejohnnygold

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    Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:52 PM

    My guess would be something along these lines... (Here is a LINK to our salary cap page)

     

    Parsons gets re-signed for hopefully around $8-10M.  If we just let Asik's money fall off the books that clears that hurdle for us.

     

    We've got T-Jones locked up through 2017 at a max of $3.5M (by then it will be viewed as one of the best values in basketball)

     

    D-Mo is on the same schedule.  (I'd like to assume he can and will be a legit back-up C for us)

     

    We've got Bev locked down through 2016 on a very friendly max of $1.2M.

     

    Greg Smith is the other option at back-up C, but I'm just not sure he will make the cut.  He probably winds up traded.

     

    Basically, the big decisions are Parsons, Lin, and Asik.  We know Asik is walking after the contract and the only question is his value--is it better in trade or in two years of service.  Well, when considering re-signing guys like Lin and Parsons I say it is better in service.

     

    I like Beverley a lot.  Over the next two seasons either he, or Lin, will have played their way into staying on this team.  Beverley deserves a starter's contract the same as Lin.  If he doesn't surpass Lin by the end of Lin's contract I suspect he gets traded or we just use him and let him walk in free agency.

     

    We will be able to retain Lin (if we want) AND Parsons (if we want) while only barely venturing into the luxury tax.  We will be set for two more years with only role player turnover (aside from Beverley).  After that, we will have to deal with Howard, T-Jones, D-Mo, Canaan, and Covington.  Now, who here thinks that big chunk of money Howard is using suddenly gets dispersed so that we can keep Jones and whoever else we like from that group of young guys or some other free agent signing?  I certainly do.

     

    I like this thread, RBF.  Definitely a good question and important way of looking at the roster.  It is unfortunate that team decisions often come down to this, but that's the deal with a salary cap.  Now, between now and 2017 the odds are trades will happen and that will alter the way things look and work, but for now this is how I see it.


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    #4 2016Champions

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    Posted 29 November 2013 - 10:57 PM

    I really can't see Beverley leaving. I'm sure Leslie is willing to pay Beverley whatever his market price is, he already said he's willing to pay luxury tax if our team is winning championships, and I really do see us winning not one but multiple championships barring injuries. Knock on wood.


    Edited by 2016Champions, 29 November 2013 - 10:58 PM.

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    "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


    #5 thejohnnygold

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    Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:15 PM

    There is some sound reasoning to that.  I think we can mostly agree that the 2 most important positions on the court are PG and C.  Thus, in this light it makes sense to pump more money into those positions and even into their back-ups.  Look at the New York teams.  Both without centers and one without it's PG (some would argue neither have pg's).  Not doing so well--even with "superstar" Carmelo.

     

    I'd be tickled if Les opened up the checkbook and signed Beverley--especially since it won't affect our ability to retain Jones, D-Mo, etc.


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    #6 2016Champions

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    Posted 29 November 2013 - 11:47 PM

    The 5 positions are outdated. I believe there are 13 positions at the very least, and the most important position is the do-it-all player. LeBron for example is a do it all player, he fulfills some pg duties, PF duties, SG duties, he transends any one position. In fact, you were the one who posted the article that opened my mind to the idea that the 5 positions should be thrown out the window.


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    "We're not satisfied with where we're at, but we're optimistic on where things will go from here" - Daryl Morey


    #7 Buckko

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      Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:48 AM

      You should also discuss that if we are winning, we can resign guys to friendlier contracts
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      #8 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 30 November 2013 - 02:43 AM

      The 5 positions are outdated. I believe there are 13 positions at the very least, and the most important position is the do-it-all player. LeBron for example is a do it all player, he fulfills some pg duties, PF duties, SG duties, he transends any one position. In fact, you were the one who posted the article that opened my mind to the idea that the 5 positions should be thrown out the window.

       

      That is correct.  Lebron while a great example is also almost always a terrible example since very few can even pretend to emulate what he brings to the floor.  The same way it isn't exactly fair to compare other centers to Hakeem it is also not fair to compare to Lebron.

       

      I would say that in their own ways Lin and Bev fulfill their roles at the "1" in a very well-rounded way.  Between the two you've got every aspect of the game covered at an above average level.  I like that.  Should they both continue to develop we could be looking at two "5-tool" (to steal a baseball term) players at the "1".  That's awesome!

       

      At center, I think we both agree (as do many others) that defense comes first and any offense is a bonus.

       

      When looking at the Rockets 2-4 positions what do we find but those exact do-it-all types of players: Harden, Parsons, Jones, Casspi, Garcia all can shoot from range, put it on the floor and drive, run in transition, make the right pass, and (when motivated for some) play solid D.

       

      With the better D we've been playing and improved ball security we are a nightmare match up for any team.

       

      Now, getting back to the 13 positions.  While that do-it-all player has huge value we must also see the need for elite defensive players and elite offensive players to throw in that mix.  Aaron Brooks is currently proving the value of offensive wizardry off the bench.  He's no "5-tool" guy, but I think we are all appreciating what he's bringing to the table right now.  Omer and Dwight offer the flip side of the coin.  Offensively, they leave a lot to be desired....but who cares?!?!?  They control the paint better than 99% (arguably 100%) of the league on defense.

       

      Getting back to the money, I would argue it is easier to find those do-it-all types, at a decent price, and that will fit in with whatever scheme you're running than reliable (emphasis on that word) "1's" and defensive monsters at the "5".  With that in mind, our salary distribution makes quite a lot of sense...

       

      $28.8M at the "5"

       

      I'm going to include Harden as a "1" given he runs a lot of our offense and averages 5.4 assists (before anyone argues, remember we are using non-traditional positional definitions)...

       

      $23M at the "1"

       

      That is $51.8M on 5 players.

       

      Now, for everyone (myself included) who has at any point dreamt of adding a third star are we sure we've got the money and are we sure we want to spend it to upgrade the "3" or the "4"?

       

      As I sit watching the Rockets destroy Brooklyn I am so fully content with our roster.  They're not perfect by any means, but they are fun to watch and a truly excellent mix of talent.  I think outside of Durant, Kevin Love or Chris Paul I don't want a trade....and those guys are not likely to get traded any time soon.


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      #9 2016Champions

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      Posted 30 November 2013 - 03:37 AM

      If your definition of a pg is broad then I agree, absolutely. Harden and Lin both playmake in addition to score which is my favorite kind of pg.
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      #10 timetodienow1234567

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      Posted 30 November 2013 - 04:22 AM

      Harden is not a do-it-all type of player. That made me laugh out loud. He is the best player on the team, but lol.


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      Why so Serious? :D


      #11 timetodienow1234567

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      Posted 30 November 2013 - 04:23 AM

      That is correct.  Lebron while a great example is also almost always a terrible example since very few can even pretend to emulate what he brings to the floor.  The same way it isn't exactly fair to compare other centers to Hakeem it is also not fair to compare to Lebron.

       

      I would say that in their own ways Lin and Bev fulfill their roles at the "1" in a very well-rounded way.  Between the two you've got every aspect of the game covered at an above average level.  I like that.  Should they both continue to develop we could be looking at two "5-tool" (to steal a baseball term) players at the "1".  That's awesome!

       

      At center, I think we both agree (as do many others) that defense comes first and any offense is a bonus.

       

      When looking at the Rockets 2-4 positions what do we find but those exact do-it-all types of players: Harden, Parsons, Jones, Casspi, Garcia all can shoot from range, put it on the floor and drive, run in transition, make the right pass, and (when motivated for some) play solid D.

       

      With the better D we've been playing and improved ball security we are a nightmare match up for any team.

       

      Now, getting back to the 13 positions.  While that do-it-all player has huge value we must also see the need for elite defensive players and elite offensive players to throw in that mix.  Aaron Brooks is currently proving the value of offensive wizardry off the bench.  He's no "5-tool" guy, but I think we are all appreciating what he's bringing to the table right now.  Omer and Dwight offer the flip side of the coin.  Offensively, they leave a lot to be desired....but who cares?!?!?  They control the paint better than 99% (arguably 100%) of the league on defense.

       

      Getting back to the money, I would argue it is easier to find those do-it-all types, at a decent price, and that will fit in with whatever scheme you're running than reliable (emphasis on that word) "1's" and defensive monsters at the "5".  With that in mind, our salary distribution makes quite a lot of sense...

       

      $28.8M at the "5"

       

      I'm going to include Harden as a "1" given he runs a lot of our offense and averages 5.4 assists (before anyone argues, remember we are using non-traditional positional definitions)...

       

      $23M at the "1"

       

      That is $51.8M on 5 players.

       

      Now, for everyone (myself included) who has at any point dreamt of adding a third star are we sure we've got the money and are we sure we want to spend it to upgrade the "3" or the "4"?

       

      As I sit watching the Rockets destroy Brooklyn I am so fully content with our roster.  They're not perfect by any means, but they are fun to watch and a truly excellent mix of talent.  I think outside of Durant, Kevin Love or Chris Paul I don't want a trade....and those guys are not likely to get traded any time soon.

       

      No Lebron?


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      Why so Serious? :D


      #12 2016Champions

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      Posted 30 November 2013 - 04:59 AM

      Harden is not a do-it-all type of player. That made me laugh out loud. He is the best player on the team, but lol.

      Who said he is? Me?
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      #13 thejohnnygold

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      Posted 30 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

      No, he missed my disclaimer about defense--I am guessing that is what he is laughing about.  He can play it when he wants to...apparently that is not often.

       

      I left Lebron off the trade targets because at this point I wouldn't mortgage our team's long-term future for him.  :o  That probably makes me an idiot, but that's how I feel.


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      #14 thenit

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        Posted 30 November 2013 - 09:49 PM

        I have seen harden play defence for 5 min since he came here. That was for 5 minutes. So it's rarer than seing a comet in the sky.
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