28 replies to this topic

[timetodienow1234567]

Okay let's examine Canaan. Since we havn't seen him play in the NBA, we'll go by his stats at Murray State.

 

But first, here's his physical measurables.

Height: 5'11"(without shoes)

Height: 6'0" (with shoes)

Weight: 188 pounds

Age 22

 

 

Let's look at his most recent season since it's the most relevant. 

 

2012-2013 

PPG: 22.4 

APG: 4.3

TOPG: 3.3

RPG: 3.4

SPG: 1.6

FG%: 42.9

3FG%: 37.1

 

Now looking at his stats besides the points he's horrible for a senior point guard. HORRIBLE. But he averaged those points against pretty inferior opponents. He did shoot well from 3, though.

 

He got his team to a 21-10 record. Respectable until you notice that the league he played in was the Ohio Valley Conference.

 

Let's look at his numbers from his games against the best opponents.

 

Game 3 stats against St. Johns(a bottom of the barrel Big East team).

Points: 15

FG: 5-18 for 27.8%

3FG: 3-11 for 27.2%

Assists: 3

TO: 1

 

Not seeing the upside. Let's examine a few more games before we declare him inept.

 

Game 22 stats against Belmont(best team in their conference) but lost handily to Arizona in the tourney.

Points: 26

FG: 4-9 for 44.4%

3FG: 3-7 for 42.8%

Assists: 6

TO: 4

 

That is a much better game.

 

Game 31 again against Belmont

Points: 22

FG: 6-18 for 33.3%

3FG: 2-10 for 20%

Assists: 10

TO: 6

Rebounds: 9

 

In overtime of this game they lost with Canaan going 1-3 with 2 turnovers. So he had a good game until it mattered most.

 

 

It seems like his one talent is shooting the three ball at a decent clip. And as soon as he faced somewhat decent opponents he became an extremely inefficient shooter with a penchant for turnovers.

[BrentYen]

Okay let's examine Canaan. Since we havn't seen him play in the NBA, we'll go by his stats at Murray State.

 

But first, here's his physical measurables.

Height: 5'11"(without shoes)

Height: 6'0" (with shoes)

Weight: 188 pounds

Age 22

 

 

Let's look at his most recent season since it's the most relevant. 

 

2012-2013 

PPG: 22.4 

APG: 4.3

TOPG: 3.3

RPG: 3.4

SPG: 1.6

FG%: 42.9

3FG%: 37.1

 

Now looking at his stats besides the points he's horrible for a senior point guard. HORRIBLE. But he averaged those points against pretty inferior opponents. He did shoot well from 3, though.

 

He got his team to a 21-10 record. Respectable until you notice that the league he played in was the Ohio Valley Conference.

 

Let's look at his numbers from his games against the best opponents.

 

Game 3 stats against St. Johns(a bottom of the barrel Big East team).

Points: 15

FG: 5-18 for 27.8%

3FG: 3-11 for 27.2%

Assists: 3

TO: 1

 

Not seeing the upside. Let's examine a few more games before we declare him inept.

 

Game 22 stats against Belmont(best team in their conference) but lost handily to Arizona in the tourney.

Points: 26

FG: 4-9 for 44.4%

3FG: 3-7 for 42.8%

Assists: 6

TO: 4

 

That is a much better game.

 

Game 31 again against Belmont

Points: 22

FG: 6-18 for 33.3%

3FG: 2-10 for 20%

Assists: 10

TO: 6

Rebounds: 9

 

In overtime of this game they lost with Canaan going 1-3 with 2 turnovers. So he had a good game until it mattered most.

 

 

It seems like his one talent is shooting the three ball at a decent clip. And as soon as he faced somewhat decent opponents he became an extremely inefficient shooter with a penchant for turnovers.

Well, he still have time to improve, and we might able to see him in action in preseason games?

[Steven]

We can probably agree that Murray State and Harvard had similar talents, and played similar talented teams.

 

Canaan's complete college stats

NCAA Regular Season Stats (Click here for detailed NCAA stats.) Year Cl School G MPG FG% 3PT% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG TO PPG 2009-2010 Fr Murray State 36 20.4 .498 .482 .784 2.25 1.56 0.86 0.03 1.67 10.33 2010-2011 So Murray State 32 28.1 .416 .403 .744 1.91 2.38 1.06 0.09 2.00 11.72 2011-2012 Jr Murray State 33 33.7 .468 .456 .837 3.45 3.64 1.36 0.06 2.70 18.97 2012-2013 Sr Murray State 31 36.5 .431 .370 .822 3.55 4.29 1.52 0.13 3.16 21.81 CAREER 135 29.1 .450 .418 .806 2.76 2.87 1.18 0.07 2.33 15.33

 

Currnent starting PG's complete college stats

 

NCAA Regular Season Stats (Click here for detailed NCAA stats.) Year Cl School G MPG FG% 3PT% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG TO PPG 2006-2007 Fr Harvard 28 18.1 .410 .281 .818 2.50 1.75 1.00 0.11 1.82 4.68 2007-2008 So Harvard 30 31.3 .448 .279 .621 4.80 3.57 1.93 0.60 2.80 12.57 2008-2009 Jr Harvard 28 34.8 .502 .400 .744 5.46 4.25 2.39 0.64 3.79 17.75 2009-2010 Sr Harvard 29 32.2 .519 .341 .755 4.38 4.45 2.45 1.07 3.10 16.41 CAREER 115 29.2 .480 .333 .733 4.30 3.51 1.95 0.61 2.88 12.88

 

So in the entire careers in college, the current “starting” PG shot better from the floor, while Canaan shot better from behind the line and FT line. Current starter averaged 1.5 Rebounds more a game, had more assists by .6, had .8 steals more a game, half a block more, while committing half a turnover more a game. Canaan did average 2.5 points more. Seems like a statistical wash to me.

 

p.s. it was all nice a pretty in a table before i posted it. i grabbed them from RealGM.com

Edited by Steven, 23 August 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[timetodienow1234567]

This was a post about Canaan. Why bring up Harvard?

[BrentYen]

This was a post about Canaan. Why bring up Harvard?

I guess because Havard plays PG too... lol

[Steven]

This was a post about Canaan. Why bring up Harvard?

To bring some comparison to stats. Stats in a vacuum can be used in whatever way the author wants. I was going to break it down year by year, but by the time I finished the current starter would have been traded already.

[timetodienow1234567]

I thought I put the stats into plenty of context.

[Steven]

More stats bring more context.

[rockets best fan]

More stats bring more context.

I agree you have a point.

[rockets best fan]

besides it's not like Harvard play all the big dogs every year

[timetodienow1234567]

Why are you guys so Lin obsessed? This is a thread about Canaan. You guys are sounding like Lin only haters.

[Steven]

Why are you guys so Lin obsessed? This is a thread about Canaan. You guys are sounding like Lin only haters.

Since when did saying that Canaan's college stats and the current starting PG's starting college stats are very similar become "Hating"? I gave no opinion, I only gave facts, besides the fact I think they are roughly the same.

[BrentYen]

Since when did saying that Canaan's college stats and the current starting PG's starting college stats are very similar become "Hating"? I gave no opinion, I only gave facts, besides the fact I think they are roughly the same.

I guess you should also give stats for PB and AB..to be even a bigger context

[rockets best fan]

Why are you guys so Lin obsessed? This is a thread about Canaan. You guys are sounding like Lin only haters.

NO we're adding context to the stats by comparing Canaan to a PG who played the same level of competition in college to show what the possibilities of expectation should be

[rockets best fan]

I guess you should also give stats for PB and AB..to be even a bigger context

   you may have a point

[timetodienow1234567]

We need to get HS stats. Even MS stats. Lets just keep adding stats until the point gets lost.... It's hard to debate with people who don't have an open mind. If you want to compare Lin of a few years ago to Canaan today then you have to look at how much Lin played early on and it wasn't much so your comparison just shows that Canaan needs time to develop and won't be a starter for a few years. Nevermind. Every single thread Steven or RBF brings up Lin and its getting old.

Edited by timetodienow1234567, 23 August 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Buckko]

They lack anything productive or interesting to say.

[Cooper]

Canaan wasnt really the pg on Murray he was out there to score which is part of the reason his assists numbers are mediocre even compared to other college players. That said I don't think he'll ever be a floor general by any means. If he can hit 3s, set the offense everyonce and a while while playing a little defense that's enough to be a solid backup in the league.

[rockets best fan]

We need to get HS stats. Even MS stats. Lets just keep adding stats until the point gets lost.... It's hard to debate with people who don't have an open mind. If you want to compare Lin of a few years ago to Canaan today then you have to look at how much Lin played early on and it wasn't much so your comparison just shows that Canaan needs time to develop and won't be a starter for a few years. Nevermind. Every single thread Steven or RBF brings up Lin and its getting old.

are we going to get around to talking about the stats or what? you tried to take Canaan's stats and bend them in your own way then when your boy fell into the same boat now we are just being difficult      

[RollingWave]

Since I actually at least watched a few clips of Canaan.....

 

His 3 point shooting was pretty legit, a significant amount of them were launched deep when he was hard pressed.  It should be noted that the translation from great college shooter to great NBA shooter may vary in time frame between guys though. For example, Glen Rice Sr was probably one of the best college shooter EVER, and he SUCKED in his rookie year from the 3 point line. it wasn't until 3-4 years in before he start looking like the same kind of other worldly shooter as he was from college. I think in the longer run he'll certainly hit 3s at a good clip, but it could easily be a couple years before that happens.

 

The other parts of his game I really worry, the passing part is oook, most people will assist more in the NBA because the general pace and flow is higher and the system is no long so zone oriented., He'll probably assist at a somewhat below average rate but assist in and of itself is a fairly pointless stat anyway, just look at the primary PG's assist last year and how it correlates with team scoring, you'll realize it has almost no correlation what so ever.

 

It's really the other part, the penetrating part, in college, he didn't really score like that because he shot lights out from 3, he did because he attacked the basket a lot, not unlike Lin, he was a pick and roll guy who relied heavily on his teammate Ed Daniels to set screen for him (btw , Daniels is a sleeper, didn't get drafted but if you watch Canaan tapes he's super visible.)   the problem I see is that he didn't actually finish well at the rim, he relied heavily on upper body strength to just out muscle guys at the rim, that is rather unlikely to work in the NBA where his strength would be inconsequential to most bigs.

 

It'll be interesting to see how well he can finish against NBA bigs, I have some serious reservations here. if he can't finish, then he's a poor man's Brandon Jennings, and that's suspect, probably still make an alright backup, which is more than you can say for most guys picked in the second round, he does have all the fundamental skills mostly done.

 

I guess Aaron Brooks isn't a bad comp for him either, that type of player, but for every Brooks there's a lot of other guys that just never make it, and even Brooks was only effective for a couple years.

 

I'd say barring serious injury issues I'd be surprised if he plays more minutes than Terrence Jones did last year or Marcus Morris in his rookie year