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@  2016Champions : (23 July 2013 - 12:07 PM) "Overall, when a qualifying defender is within 5 feet of the basket, the NBA shoots 57.2% of its attempts close to the basket; however, when Dwight Howard was the interior defender this number dropped to 48.2%"

2010-11?
@  2016Champions : (23 July 2013 - 12:06 PM) Weird, I can see John Eby's daily on the front page but not in the forum. I was wondering which season the Kirksberry study was in reference to.
@  2016Champions : (22 July 2013 - 09:13 PM) I'm not sure, but I think this is Chandler Parsons blocking DeMarcus Cousins: https://vine.co/v/hKnZuWQ7qLK
@  Ostrow : (22 July 2013 - 08:22 PM) He was my first thought as well, but he was so good offensively.
@  CC. : (22 July 2013 - 08:05 PM) Well there's Kevin McHale haha. 6th man of the year twice, Of course he wasn't just strictly a defensive player, but he did star in six all defensive teams, which ain't too bad right
@  Ostrow : (22 July 2013 - 07:50 PM) I love me a Asik, he's just a weird type of player for a 6th made. I'm trying to think of great 6th men who came of the bench and basically were only defensive players.
@  CC. : (22 July 2013 - 07:48 PM) And yeah I don't see Asik as that 6th man Harden once was, but he still anchors that defense for 48 minutes, and for a team like the Rockets...they need it and that's fine for me as a '6th man'
@  CC. : (22 July 2013 - 07:45 PM) I honestly have kept OKC as the 1st, until now that I'm finding out Martin left haha. I'd go with the Spurs now
@  Ostrow : (22 July 2013 - 07:41 PM) Who sounds like your one seed out of curiosity? I mean our 6th man isn't great for that role. Obviously Asik is good, but not your stereotypical 6th man sparkplug scorer off the bench
@  CC. : (22 July 2013 - 07:18 PM) So that leaves OKC with Reggie as their 6th man? Hmm that doesn't sound like 1st seed to me
@  redfaithful : (21 July 2013 - 09:15 AM) 3 team deal with Bucks, OKC got rights to Szymon Szewczyk, drafted 2003...
@  Ostrow : (21 July 2013 - 07:25 AM) sign and trade. they didn't want to pay him
@  RollingWave : (21 July 2013 - 03:48 AM) they got Luk Ridinour for him I think
@  CC. : (21 July 2013 - 01:18 AM) Wait what happened to Kevin Martin? OKC got only a second round pick for him?
@  timetodienow... : (20 July 2013 - 02:55 AM) guy*
@  timetodienow... : (20 July 2013 - 02:54 AM) Yeah, I can see that. The dude is my favorite irrational confidence guys.
@  2016Champions : (20 July 2013 - 02:52 AM) I do see the reason for comparison though, both capable scorers and defensive liabilities.
@  2016Champions : (20 July 2013 - 02:51 AM) Nate wouldn't have accepted the flimsy contract we gave Brooks. Brooks is nothing more than an emergency 3rd string, where as Nate is looking for more than that.
@  timetodienow... : (20 July 2013 - 02:15 AM) What are you guys' thoughts about bringing in Nate Robinson? I wondered why the Rockets signed Brooks when Nate was still available.
@  timetodienow... : (20 July 2013 - 01:59 AM) Cousins isn't consistent enough for that. I ranked them on a post if you want to comment there.

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Top Centers in the league?


34 replies to this topic

#1 timetodienow1234567

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:54 AM

Since Morey recently stated that Omer Asik was a top 5 Center, I was wondering what everybody thought of today's centers.

 

1) Howard

2) Gasol

3) Lopez

4) Noah

5) Hibbert

6) Chandler

7) Asik

8) Horford(He's a natural PF, but the Hawks won't play him there, so he's a C).

9) Varejao

10) Sanders

11) Drummond

12) Pek

13) Gortat

14) Splitter

15) Cousins

 

I left Duncan and KG off this list since they are still PFs in my eye with Splitter and Lopez manning the C spot for their respective teams. I left Jefferson off this list since he's nonexistent on the defensive end which is the most important spot for defense. In fact, the only offensive oriented center I have high is Lopez and that's because he's improved defensively. This is just going by my eye test, but I'm sure many of you have different opinions. 

 

 

 


Why so Serious? :D


#2 2016Champions

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:55 AM

8) Horford(He's a natural PF, but the Hawks won't play him there, so he's a C).

Wouldn't this logic qualify Garnett as a C also? I understand why you see Garnett as a PF, but there's definitely a double standard here. 


Edited by 2016Champions, 20 July 2013 - 01:57 AM.

Debates are destructive as they present one-sided opinions and demolish reasoned arguments, whereas discussions are constructive and encourage the expression of opinion.

 

Debate is the death of conversation.


#3 timetodienow1234567

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 01:58 AM

Wouldn't this logic qualify Garnett as a C also? I understand why you see Garnett as a PF, but there's definitely a double standard here. 

 

I would have KG at the C spot if he were still on the Celtics, but that spot is being manned by Lopez, so he is back to a PF.


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#4 2016Champions

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:08 AM

I see. Duncan is also an interesting case, he plays PF often but I believe he plays Center more often (he definitely did in the playoffs). 


Edited by 2016Champions, 20 July 2013 - 02:08 AM.

Debates are destructive as they present one-sided opinions and demolish reasoned arguments, whereas discussions are constructive and encourage the expression of opinion.

 

Debate is the death of conversation.


#5 CC.

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    Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:08 AM

    Where would Bynum be? Not accounting his Philly season. Around 4-7?



    #6 CC.

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      Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:10 AM

      I see. Duncan is also an interesting case, he plays PF often but I believe he plays Center more often (he definitely did in the playoffs). 

      He definitely is in Pop's smaller line-ups.



      #7 timetodienow1234567

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      Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:11 AM

      I see. Duncan is also an interesting case, he plays PF often but I believe he plays Center more often (he definitely did in the playoffs). 

       

      He is an interesting case, but yeah, he played some of his minutes at C. Especially when Splitter's on the bench. But with the amount of money they gave Splitter, he'll be at PF most of the time next year imo. But I'd have him second if I considered him a C. Pretty good for his age. He definitely deserved 1st team all nba last season. Hopefully for us, Dwight earns that spot back.


      Why so Serious? :D


      #8 timetodienow1234567

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      Posted 20 July 2013 - 02:13 AM

      Where would Bynum be? Not accounting his Philly season. Around 4-7?

       

      A healthy Bynum would be 4th on my list with the potential to be higher if he played smarter. Jacking up 3s, etc... Clotheslining dudes.... But I don't think he'll ever be that healthy again. I don't think he'll play more than 20 games for Cleveland.


      Why so Serious? :D


      #9 Rahat Huq

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        Posted 20 July 2013 - 07:32 AM

        Strong case to be made that as of today, Gasol > Howard.  Obviously, that can easily change once its confirmed that Howard is back to full health.  



        #10 timetodienow1234567

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        Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:34 PM

        Strong case to be made that as of today, Gasol > Howard.  Obviously, that can easily change once its confirmed that Howard is back to full health.  

         

        True. I really like Gasol. But I was going on the assumption of a full strength Howard. I just compared him to healthy Orlando Dwight. But injured Laker Dwight is probably 3rd to me.


        Why so Serious? :D


        #11 DrewinAbilene

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        Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

        I love Noah's energy and defense, but I'd rank Hibbert above him. 



        #12 timetodienow1234567

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        Posted 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM

        I love Noah's energy and defense, but I'd rank Hibbert above him. 

         

        It's close, but I could go either way. But in the playoffs, was the first time I was like WOW when watching Hibbert. He needs to be able to duplicate that on a daily basis for him to rise in my estimation.


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        #13 Jeby

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          Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:55 PM

          Strong case to be made that as of today, Gasol > Howard.  Obviously, that can easily change once its confirmed that Howard is back to full health.  

          You could make that case, but I wouldn't. First, on old-school statistics, Howard blew away Gasol even in a year that was Howard's worst since his sophomore year. In PER, they came out about even, again, in a career year for Gasol. Gasol has a better mid-range game and free-throw shooting, yet his true-shooting percentage still trailed Howard. The kicker is Gasol's rebound rate: 13.1 percent to Howard's 19.9. The one area in which Gasol bested Howard is on/off court production, where he was a net +11.2 to Howard's +4.1. However, team role has a lot to do with that; Mike Conley was a +15.4, and he's no one's idea of a franchise cornerstone.
          Gasol was rewarded with a DPOY last year for quarterbacking a stellar defensive team under a defense-first coach. His rotations and understanding were superb, but make no mistake--the presence of Marc in the weak side is not scaring anyone away from the rim.
          Howard was punished for not living up to the same astronomical standard he set for himself in previous seasons. The only center better than Dwight Howard is Old Dwight Howard.
          "Assets" -- Daryl Morey

          #14 PurpleHayes

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            Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

            Call me crazy but I'd take Noah and Hibbert over Lopez all day long. I get that Lopez is really good offensively, but I just can't deal with a 7 foot max center that can't reboud. Not only can he not rebound, but he's so bad at it that his team was forced to start Reggie Evans next to him to compensate for it.



            #15 2016Champions

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            Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:16 PM

            I do think that Marc Gasol has a case over injured Dwight, but why are we comparing a healthy player to an injured player? Towards the end of the season it wasn't even a question anymore, Dwight was at 80-90% and dominating at a level that was clearly above Gasol's. I doubt it will even take one month into the new season before any talk of Marc Gasol > Dwight Howard looks very silly. 

             

            Don't think I'm underestimating Marc Gasol, I'm actually higher on him than most people in the sense that I think he's a top 10 player in the league. However, I'm also higher on Dwight than most people in the sense that I think he's a top 3 player with healthy. 


            Edited by 2016Champions, 20 July 2013 - 05:20 PM.

            Debates are destructive as they present one-sided opinions and demolish reasoned arguments, whereas discussions are constructive and encourage the expression of opinion.

             

            Debate is the death of conversation.


            #16 2016Champions

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            Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:15 PM

            I'm not 100% on how it works in sports like MMA fighting when a title holder gets injured and has to delay his title defense, but Cain Valesquez recently got injured and I think he's still considered the title holder unless he stays injured for over a year and in that case would have to relinquish his title. 

             

            I think of NBA player rankings in a similar manner, Dwight held the title for the best center in the league and he still holds that title despite missing several months due to injury. 

             

            http://www.youtube.c...tailpage#t=168s

            "9 months to a year is how long he should wait" - Dr. Klapper on Dwight's injury

             

            Dwight had his injury in April, so 9-12 months would be January-April 2013. Dwight came back in late November 2012...

             

            Being a personal trainer who has dealt with alot of lower back injuries and even suffered one myself, I know how hard it is to move until it's fully healed. Simple things like jogging up and down a court is very painful and hard to do. 

             

            Around late March-April we saw Dwight clearly improve mobility wise, and like I said in the earlier post, at 80-90% Dwight's defense was clearly on a whole another level once again. Just that defense alone makes him the best center in the league, and anything he does on offense is like a bonus. 


            Debates are destructive as they present one-sided opinions and demolish reasoned arguments, whereas discussions are constructive and encourage the expression of opinion.

             

            Debate is the death of conversation.


            #17 Steven

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              Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:36 PM

              Gasol is overrated by the media trying to force a beat the heat team.

              #18 thenit

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                Posted 20 July 2013 - 07:10 PM

                Why we are comparing an injured played to a healthy, because at this point in time Gasol was better than Howard based on the last season. We don't know how Howard will ever be 100% so until he can play to his "supposed" ceiling, you can't rank him higher than Gasol.

                Gasol has more moves and skills, and he is a great big man passer, and help defender. We tend to overvalue atheltisicm and if Howard can't bully people or finish alley oops, he just an average big man. I say Howard have at most 3 more years in his prime if his shoulder and back doesn't bother him, if he still has issues, he will be a top 5 center for a couple of years and decline quickly because he doesn't have the skills in the post or court vision that Gasol has.



                #19 vonsteve

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                  Posted 20 July 2013 - 08:59 PM

                  The original post had it grouped pretty well. I think your 3-6 could easily keep changing. They're pretty tight, though they have different strengths.



                  #20 rockets best fan

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                  Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:51 AM

                  1. Howard

                  2. Gasol

                  3. Noah

                  4. Hibbert

                  5. Asik

                  6. Chandler

                  7. Horford

                  8. Cousins

                  9. Lopez

                  10. Varejao / Gortat

                  I put more weight on a center being able to  anchor a teams defense and rebound over scoring.






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