41 replies to this topic

[Ostrow]

Rebounding, for a big, is an important part of defense, especially in the new NBA.  It's not always easy to get a rebound when you are guarding the ball.  You aren't necessarily close to the basket, can't see the flight of the ball, etc.  Centers in today's NBA probably guard the ball less than anyone else in the league.  The reason rebounding is so important is, whether you play good or bad defense, people are going to miss shots.  Offensive rebounds lead the the easiest shots.  Much easier to get a good shot after a rebound for reasons that I won't get into because the people on this site know basketball.  When you are near the basket as much as C are, you have to rebound.  Rebounding shouldn't be the only part of a DPOY, put it should be a part.  Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

[Jason]

You asked me earlier, and I paraphrase, "who would trust the opinion of someone who's open minded?", well let me answer your question with a question: why would you rather trust the opinion of someone who's closed to learning new things/perspectives?

There are many highly respected analysts/writers who think very highly of Marc Gasol's defense, have you read/heard the things they've said? Or are you just closed minded to what they're talking about?

Tony Allen is a very good defender, but Marc Gasol is the defensive anchor of that team.

I'm close minded to what they're talking about because its an absolute joke that he won the award. Like I said, I would not even put Gasol in the top 20 defensively among NBA players. The guy whom we have been discussing, Josh Smith, is a better defensive player than Gasol.

[2016Champions]

I'm close minded to what they're talking about because its an absolute joke that he won the award. Like I said, I would not even put Gasol in the top 20 defensively among NBA players. The guy whom we have been discussing, Josh Smith, is a better defensive player than Gasol.

Maybe you're right, maybe Gasol isn't the best defender on his team and maybe there are guys who deserved it more. I've watched alot of Grizzlies games, but I haven't watched them all and I'm not a professional analyst anyway--that's why I listen to the things said by people who might know better. One of the writers I respect the most is Zach Lowe, he's one of the most insightful writers to ever grace the minds of NBA fans, but ofcourse he's only human and he's only one man--that's why I'm a fan of second and third opinions. 

 

And so I present to you another article written by someone else who talks about the time Marc Gasol locked down Aldridge (arguably the hardest big man to lock down because of his "unstoppable" fadeaway in the post): http://www.commercia...izzlies-marc-g/

 

"Players shoot just 33.9 percent against him in the post; that's the third-best mark in the NBA."

 

And here's a highlight from another article I found at Sports Illustrated: 

 He’s one of the few realistic All-Star candidates who is a legitimately elite defender, a quality that may prove out of place in the context of the All-Star Game but should nonetheless be rewarded. It’s truly uncommon for big men to move, shade and angle defenders as impeccably as Gasol does, and it’s through his play that Memphis has managed the second-best defense in the entire league to date (97.6 points allowed per 100 possessions). He may not have the traditional athleticism that we so often see in elite interior defenders, but Gasol is surprisingly quick on his feet and manages splendidly with superior length and timing.

[PKM]

Watching the Clippers-Grizzlies game...and DeAndre Jordan is Exhibit A,B, and C that Dwight doesn't know what he's talking about.

[RollingWave]

So I guess Howard isn't the brightest guy.. not exactly earth shattering revelation there.

 

As for Gasol versus others, this is such a problematic debate, because guys are tasked to do different things on defense. it's very very hard to compare a center to a wing . most traditionalist and general confirmation of stats seem to suggest that center is a bigger part because well.. they're like the last line of defense. but it's like saying is a goalie more valuable defensively than a defense men in Hockey?? .... ehhhh.. I guess.. but that's a bad way to compare it .

 

I think they should just drop the DPOY and use the all defense team as this award. that makes more sense.

[Cooper]

I don't really think Dwight believes that, he gets a lot of blocks usually and if he had been healthy all year probably would have been more in consideration for dpoy, this just seems like sour grapes.

[Stephen]

Much as I like Asik no way he should get DPOY when his team is so bad defensively.

Gasol's team is an excellent defensive team.

 

Little snark follows.

If we're agreeing that blocking shots isn't an indicator of good D,explain to me again why anyone would want Josh Smith?

[2016Champions]

Much as I like Asik no way he should get DPOY when his team is so bad defensively.

Gasol's team is an excellent defensive team.

 

Little snark follows.

If we're agreeing that blocking shots isn't an indicator of good D,explain to me again why anyone would want Josh Smith?

It's not an indicator of bad D either. 

[thejohnnygold]

Mostly because of these statistics courtesy of mysynergysports.com.  These are Josh Smith's defensive numbers...

 

[thejohnnygold]

For context, here are Omer Asik's numbers:

 

 

For me, the fg% is worth looking at, but the PPP (points per possession) are the thing to judge by.  It should be noted that most of Asik's defense happens in the post where a higher shooting % is the norm which makes his numbers all the more impressive.  Smith plays inside and out.  It is interesting to note how effective hand-off plays are...I've been pondering for quite a while about having our guys come off screens, around a guy in the high post (holding the ball), taking the hand-off while cutting down the lane and being able to get to the rim without dribbling while going at full speed.  Seems these numbers support that notion...albeit a very small sample on both.

[2016Champions]

Resourceful as always *thumbs up*

[thejohnnygold]

I used my PC's snipping tool to crop the chart, save it as a .jpg, uploaded it to a website, and then copied the URL as normal.

 

There's probably an easier way, but that's how I did it.

[2016Champions]

I'm not sure how you avoided all that white space below, but I would like to bring up Tyler Hansbrough's Synergy numbers to discussion--there is no way in hell his defense is that good. And for whatever it's worth, his RAPM is -0.3 which isn't horrible but isn't reflective of his Synergy numbers in the slightest. Based on what I've seen from watching him play, I'm more more inclined to lean towards RAPM as the more accurate reflection of Tyler Hansbrough's defensive impact.

[thejohnnygold]

I don't know, he reminds me of Beverley when he plays defense.  I think he gets more time against bench players than starters and most of the sample sizes shown are fairly small.  Based on the small amount I have seen him play this year I was impressed.  I don't think he is a starter yet, but for a bench guy he is excellent.

[2016Champions]

Offensively excellent--I can see that. Defensively excellent--not even close. 

 

Anyway, back to Josh Smith, I think one of the things those statistics don't get into a whole lot is help defense. Josh Smith's help defense this season has not been as good as past years, his blocks and steals are very misleading in this regard, this is something Zach Lowe has also noted and it is also reflected in Smith's drop in RAPM. 

[thejohnnygold]

That's a good point.  With Asik I am hoping he won't need to help much.  If they try to position his man such that Smith has to be the helper on D, then I think Parsons and Smith could switch as Parsons can easily defend a PF on the perimeter.

[2016Champions]

I'm sure he can rely on Asik just as much as he relied on Horford, perhaps even more so, but the fact Josh Smith's defense seems to have declined at age 27 during his contract year is a little disconcerting. In contrast to the article you once posted which listed Josh Smith's Synergy numbers last season (not sure how to access them via the site), only his isolation defense seems to have sustained while every other area of his defense has taken a drop.

 

Has Josh Smith been playing though injury, or has he simply slacked off because he hasn't been happy there?

[thejohnnygold]

Only a handful of people know that....I'm not one of them...

[2016Champions]

Hmm... disconcerting. 

[thejohnnygold]

Still, looking back at Smith's defensive stats above...he holds opponents to 38.8% shooting on 730 total attempts.  I'll take that all day long.