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@  2016Champions : (17 June 2013 - 05:26 AM) I had a feeling Ginobili would regress to the mean.
@  Dan G : (17 June 2013 - 04:33 AM) Now I had no idea Ginobli was gonna pull a Wade and turn back the clock. I give Pop the majority of the credit for that.
@  Dan G : (17 June 2013 - 04:32 AM) I don't think it was too ballsy on San Antonio's part. With the way Splitter has been playing and since Miami has started Miller the last two games, I thought it was inevitable that Ginobli would start.
@  RollingWave : (17 June 2013 - 02:57 AM) I must say that both team had some serious ballsy lineup changes this series, Ginobilli start? and dominate?
@  2016Champions : (16 June 2013 - 09:26 PM) According to Dr. Klapper, treatment for Parker's hamstring will only last one half. Lateral movement and jumping will be a problem.
@  2016Champions : (16 June 2013 - 04:56 AM) Parker said Pop was very angry with him for the constant nagging insisting he can play, Pop really didn't want Parker to play. Just goes to show Pop knows best.
@  RollingWave : (16 June 2013 - 04:28 AM) Parker says his hamstring is almost shot , that would probably doom the Spurs if he can't play at least 80%
@  2016Champions : (15 June 2013 - 12:38 AM) Miami is 6-0 in playoffs following losses (outscoring opponents by 20.7 PPG in those games). They've won 12 straight games following losses.
@  2016Champions : (14 June 2013 - 04:50 PM) The Heat are notoriously slow starters. Once they get going it's like a snowball effect, they get more dangerous as they go along.
@  2016Champions : (14 June 2013 - 04:49 PM) My heart says SA, but my mind says MIA
@  rocketrick : (14 June 2013 - 11:06 AM) Anybody else going to San Antone for Game 5??
@  RollingWave : (14 June 2013 - 10:15 AM) The Heat is doomed / the Spurs is doom , repeat until game 7
@  2016Champions : (14 June 2013 - 06:28 AM) Now that Wade's knee doesn't seem to be bothering him anymore, Spurs are in trouble.
@  rocketrick : (14 June 2013 - 06:26 AM) Mark Twain once was quoted--Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. Not sure that motivates the Heat but food for thought for whatever that is worth!
@  2016Champions : (14 June 2013 - 04:43 AM) What happened to Parker that second half? Hamstring caught up to him?
@  Ostrow : (14 June 2013 - 03:57 AM) Has Manu had any good playoff games?
@  RollingWave : (14 June 2013 - 03:50 AM) G4 was very interesting, both teams making big adjustments, but I think at the end of the day Wade's rejuvenation / dead cat bounce versus Manu 's continued suck is the difference
@  RollingWave : (13 June 2013 - 08:49 AM) @rocketrick lol good one. I honestly don't know what happens now, I was expecting Spurs to win G3 but not by THAT much
@  rocketrick : (12 June 2013 - 10:55 AM) I can't wait for Game 5 after the Heat burn the Spurs on Thursday night
@  RollingWave : (12 June 2013 - 06:52 AM) The amazing thing is this 2nd rounder and undrafted guy played like super stars while the best player ever an another sure fired HOF guy played like junk

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Is Jeremy Lin the Long-Term answer at PG?


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#1 Jason

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    Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:30 AM

    I'm just not sure anymore.

    #2 kevingan

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      Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:49 AM

      First playoff game in his life, Jason!  He had a bad game--it's called a learning experience.  Nobody else exactly rose to the occasion either--Patrick Beverly was probably the best, but he made bad plays also.  Nobody's hitting from three, and when that happens, the Rockets just don't click.

       

      Youngest team in the league: growing pains.  Wait until after the series to assess.

       

      Not to mention that OKC is the best team in the league, apart from Miami.  Much more talent, especially up front, and it really showed tonight.  Again, don't panic! 



      #3 2016Champions

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      Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:06 AM

      Oh definitely don't panic, we're going to get way better. 

       

      Lin plays way better at home than he does away, and the whole team is the same way. As a team we're 29-12 (.707) at home and 16-25 (.390) away. We would be a 58 win team if we always played like we do at home, and with experience we will get closer and closer to doing that. 


      Don't be too quick to assume you're right and the experts are wrong. 

       

      "A fool who recognizes his own ignorance is thereby in fact a wise man, but a fool who considers himself wise -- that is what one really calls a fool." ~Gautama Buddha


      #4 Jason

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        Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:36 AM

        First playoff game in his life, Jason! He had a bad game--it's called a learning experience. Nobody else exactly rose to the occasion either--Patrick Beverly was probably the best, but he made bad plays also. Nobody's hitting from three, and when that happens, the Rockets just don't click.

        Youngest team in the league: growing pains. Wait until after the series to assess.

        Not to mention that OKC is the best team in the league, apart from Miami. Much more talent, especially up front, and it really showed tonight. Again, don't panic!


        I'm not just talking about this one game. I've watched him all season long and am evaluating him for the entire year. He is a decent PG, but I just don't know if he's our long-term PG and not sure how much better he will get to be honest. I hope I'm wrong and he develops into an All-Star, but Im just not sure. Right now he is probably in the bottom third of the league among starting PGs.

        #5 PKM

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          Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

          The sad thing from my perspective is that while Jeremy Lin was really, really, bad tonight...I don't think he was the worst Rocket on the floor.  I know the boxscores really say differently, but I think Smith was even worse out there.

           

          As for whether he's a long-term fit? I think it's sort of like McHale.  McHale isn't a great coach ( though better than many of his detractors give him credit for), but there's no one out there who I think is available that would be a significant improvement.  Lin is a 15-20 ish point guard, but to get one of the elite point guards would require assets or something which would leave us thin elsewhere.  Barring significant improvement from say, Beverley, I think Lin is just the guy we're going to roll with.



          #6 Futureinterest

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          Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:37 PM

          The kid has improved all year.  He's got the work ethic to get the most out of his talent, and at times... you see sparks of his effectiveness.  He's a good soldier and will do what the coaches ask him to do which is mostly play off the ball and spot up.  He's gotten better at that as the year has progressed, but there's no doubt he's in slump right now.  Heck the whole team is in a slump right now.  I think schematically our game does not translate well to playoff basketball.  It's a new season and the game is very different...  I think we all knew that there was no way we were going to beat OKC, but the fact that we weren't even competitive was a shock.  Let's see if McHale makes the adjustments and can get these guys motivated to get their game out of the gutter.

           

          It's probably too early to tell where Lin's ceiling is.  So far he's making improvements all the time but he'll never have the ball in his hands or McHale's trust in the way that he needs to be truly effective on this team.  So it's hard to judge...  As a coach you need to put your positions in place to take advantage of their strengths.  I think you need to have Lin come off the bench at this point and have him lead the second team to see really use him effectively.  I'd also be a proponent of using Harden off the bench.  He's your prototypical 6th man, all offense and no D.  A starter needs to be more well rounded...  


           “Losing like this was definitely good for us.” - Some crazy guy with no D.


          #7 Jason

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            Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

            The kid has improved all year. He's got the work ethic to get the most out of his talent, and at times... you see sparks of his effectiveness. He's a good soldier and will do what the coaches ask him to do which is mostly play off the ball and spot up. He's gotten better at that as the year has progressed, but there's no doubt he's in slump right now. Heck the whole team is in a slump right now. I think schematically our game does not translate well to playoff basketball. It's a new season and the game is very different... I think we all knew that there was no way we were going to beat OKC, but the fact that we weren't even competitive was a shock. Let's see if McHale makes the adjustments and can get these guys motivated to get their game out of the gutter.

            It's probably too early to tell where Lin's ceiling is. So far he's making improvements all the time but he'll never have the ball in his hands or McHale's trust in the way that he needs to be truly effective on this team. So it's hard to judge... As a coach you need to put your positions in place to take advantage of their strengths. I think you need to have Lin come off the bench at this point and have him lead the second team to see really use him effectively. I'd also be a proponent of using Harden off the bench. He's your prototypical 6th man, all offense and no D. A starter needs to be more well rounded...


            I like Lin a lot and agree with what you're saying, but do you see him ever becoming a top 5 or top 10 PG? As for putting Harden on the bench, come on now. You don't pay a guy max money and put him on the bench. Many star players lack D.

            #8 Futureinterest

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            Posted 22 April 2013 - 02:36 PM

            Right now his stock is pretty low, heck everyone's stock on our team is low at this moment.  I'm still bullish on him though.  I think top 10 is within his reach if he continues to improve.  Really his game is dependent on his outside shot falling more consistently.  Everyone knows he can drive to the basket with the best of them and he's a great facilitator.  His no look passes are tops in the league as well imo.  Right now defenses tend to go under the screens or give him space, daring him to shoot.  He's improved in shooting over the coarse of the year... He will go as far as his outside shot lets him... if he can become elite there then we'll be enjoying Nash 2.0 or in my opinion more of a Parker 2.0.  If he can't get that shot... then we're looking at a lesser version of Rondo who is one of the more overrated players imo.  I suspect he'll fall somewhere in between and for the right team he'll be effective... We're not really playing him to his strengths right now either but he's been adapting...

             

            Keep in mind that the PG position is enjoying a bit of a renaissance these days.  There is more talent at that position than any other time in recent memory.  You just can't get as physical in defending them as in days of yore, so those quick guys off the perimeter are just lighting it up like never before.  So top 10 is going to be a tough nut to crack but I'm hoping he gets there, he works his tail off and I just can't stop routing for a player like that.  I love how he takes responsibility for bad play, works hard, puts team first in all things and doesn't complain... if any player on our team should've been complaining this year about his usage... it should've been Lin.  He's the first guy to say that he has a lot of work to do, to get better and he puts in the hard work and has been improving all year.  I find that growth encouraging and am hoping that his growth over the off-season without a knee injury to rehab from will allow him the opportunity to come back with some better tools for next year's grind.  I also wouldn't be entirely surprised if Morey pulls the plug and trades him as he and Harden just don't seem to coexist very well even after a full year...  


             “Losing like this was definitely good for us.” - Some crazy guy with no D.


            #9 thenit

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              Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:11 PM

              It's his first game, and when the whole team stunked up the place as well, its hard to look good. The only time he actually looked decent was when he had the ball in his hand the first 4 minutes in the 3rd Q. He drove through the lane and found Smith and Asik.

               

              This is my issue which I said before, he is not a good off guard, he has improved, but you are not playing to his strenghts when he doesn't run the p&r and create havoc. Most of last night game he was standing in the corner or outside the 3p line waiting for a pass. That might have been the gameplan if that doesn't change, I don't see how he can be a longterm solution. I love Lin as a player and person, but I would rather trade him and get a pg that is more of a off guard pg. In the right system I think Lin can be a  top 10 pg ei Dantoni. But you look at nash how bad he looks now without a system fitted to him.

               

              Time will tell. I just don't think he fits with harden. And if you have to pick one player out of the two, its an easy choice in harden



              #10 Freebird

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              Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:13 PM

              I've seen Lin's growth as has been alluded to, but a top 10 PG?  Doubtful.  He's still learning the position - he was a SG in college.  I think he would be a great backup combo guard, but not on that contract.  I think we need to find a true point - I don't think Bev is starter material, either.  Well, not yet - we'll see.



              #11 pharmag

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                Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:31 PM

                I've seen Lin's growth as has been alluded to, but a top 10 PG?  Doubtful.  He's still learning the position - he was a SG in college.  I think he would be a great backup combo guard, but not on that contract.  I think we need to find a true point - I don't think Bev is starter material, either.  Well, not yet - we'll see.

                 

                I don't understand the logic that the contract dictates he has to start?  Ginobli makes 14 million this year off the bench for SAS.  Just cause they come off the bench doesn't mean they aren't essential to team.  If Lin ends up staying around, I would like to see the team trot out Harden and Bev (or some other off-ball PG) to start.  Then 5-7 minute into first/third, Lin comes in for Bev.  Beginning of second/fourth or last few minutes of first/third, Bev comes in for Harden.  Then your halftime/game close-out squad can be dictated by match-ups and need.  If it is done right, all 3 players could average about 32 minutes a game with variations based on match-ups.  That can help prevent the minute build-up and exhaustion that happens in a fast paced offense.  However, all of this requires Lin and Harden to play better together which means both of them have to get better at moving off the ball and Lin needs to keep working on his outside shot.



                #12 Jason

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                  Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:30 PM

                  We should trade Lin, draft picks, and all of our useless PFs to move up in this draft for Trey Burke. He will be a star PG.

                  #13 timetodienow1234567

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                  Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:56 PM

                  Either this is some serious being "prisoner of the moment" or biases against Lin are showing through. And since no one is saying that Harden is a BUM after his subpar performance, I think it's the latter. Harden was horrible last night, as was the whole team. Beverley showed some flashes at times and then stunk it up at times. Nobody played exceptionally well. I don't think Lin can be a top 5 PG with the emergence of Irving/Wall/Holiday/Lillard/etc.... but he definitely has the potential to be top 5. It really is ALL dependent on his outside shot. If he can get to 40-45%, he'll be worth every penny of his salary. Why aren't we talking about how horrible Harden was. That wasn't a superstar performance. 6-19? 1-6? It's ONE game. Don't overreact people.


                  Why so Serious? :D


                  #14 Jason

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                    Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:15 PM

                    Either this is some serious being "prisoner of the moment" or biases against Lin are showing through. And since no one is saying that Harden is a BUM after his subpar performance, I think it's the latter. Harden was horrible last night, as was the whole team. Beverley showed some flashes at times and then stunk it up at times. Nobody played exceptionally well. I don't think Lin can be a top 5 PG with the emergence of Irving/Wall/Holiday/Lillard/etc.... but he definitely has the potential to be top 5. It really is ALL dependent on his outside shot. If he can get to 40-45%, he'll be worth every penny of his salary. Why aren't we talking about how horrible Harden was. That wasn't a superstar performance. 6-19? 1-6? It's ONE game. Don't overreact people.


                    I'm not talking about just this one game. I'm evaluating him based on watching him play all season long. And I disagree that it's All about him improving as an outside shooter. He makes some highly questionable decisions. I'm not sure how good his court vision and basketball IQ actually are (the IQ part is ironic since he's a Harvard grad, but I'm talking about basketball IQ not regular IQ). Again, I hope I'm wrong and he takes a big step forward next year but Im just not sure.

                    #15 thenit

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                      Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:35 PM

                      I'm not talking about just this one game. I'm evaluating him based on watching him play all season long. And I disagree that it's All about him improving as an outside shooter. He makes some highly questionable decisions. I'm not sure how good his court vision and basketball IQ actually are (the IQ part is ironic since he's a Harvard grad, but I'm talking about basketball IQ not regular IQ). Again, I hope I'm wrong and he takes a big step forward next year but Im just not sure.

                       

                      Actually this season he has shown that he is about in the middle of the pack of all starters. His outside shooting has been improving and he shot about 40% the past 3 months on 3s. His BB IQ is probably his highest asset with his burst of accelaration. The thing he needs to work on his cuts and slashes. Also finishing with his left hand. I think he can be a top 10 pg in the next 2 years if he is the right system. 

                       

                      Example, he would have been a better fit with a sg like Martin who doesn't need the ball in his hand. I just can't see Lin be that effective with Harden around. So like I said he needs the  ball in his hand or he becomes ineffective, look at Nash he just looked awful with Kobe, but the year before he was still playing great with the Suns. Can't be that big of a dropoff. Its all depends on the Coach and system for Lin to succeed. He is not a good fit with Harden , so I don't see him as a long term PG for the rockets. Maybe as the 6th man, but not as a starter. 

                       

                      We all saw how well Lin ran the offense for the 3-4 games Harden was out this year. The ball movement etc. 

                       

                      Regarding Harden's performance, everybody sucked. Beverley had some nice minutes, but even he can play better than that.



                      #16 Jason

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                        Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:55 PM

                        What makes you say his basketball IQ is so high? Because he went to Harvard it just has to be? I really do not see it on the court, to be honest. His defense is also below average. But it sounds like we essentially agree. He's probably not our long-term answer at PG and maybe best suites as a 6th man since none of us want a middle of the pack starting PG.

                        #17 2016Champions

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                        Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:59 PM

                        I would rather base my opinion of him by how he played in March and April than base it on just one game. 


                        Don't be too quick to assume you're right and the experts are wrong. 

                         

                        "A fool who recognizes his own ignorance is thereby in fact a wise man, but a fool who considers himself wise -- that is what one really calls a fool." ~Gautama Buddha


                        #18 Futureinterest

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                        Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:01 PM

                        Lin's a smart cat and quick as well.  That coast to coast layup attempt against LA at the end of the first half was a thing of beauty and blazing speed that only a few players I know of could do.  

                         

                        He makes good decisions overall, and has good court vision.  When he's distributing you see him create a lot of easy baskets.  The fact is he doesn't really distribute that much in our offense.  When he does get a chance, he sometimes gets over aggressive.  I also think when he starts over utilizing the jump pass he tends to get himself in trouble, but that's part of him being aggressive which he needs to be in order to be effective but he has to learn the fine line with being over aggressive...  He's always going to have more turnovers than most, but even there he's improved this year quite a bit.

                         

                        I'm not defending Harden by criticizing Lin either.  Harden was awful the last game and has had more games where he's stinking it up... so much so that I'm starting to think that's his normal type of play.  I don't think his game translates well to playoffs... as he's not going to get all the foul calls he's used to and it's been shown that good defense will just take him out.  Maybe it's HArden that needs to come off the bench?  OKC certainly felt that was his strength.

                         

                        I'm a fan of Lin the person, mostly a fan of his game, and believe he has potential to be near elite.  I definitely love to watch when he's running the point effectively as the whole team seems to play a more exciting brand of basketball.  

                         

                        The kid is a warrior too.  I can't recall another player take the day to day beatings that he does and not miss a game the entire season. He'll get mugged every game and just keeps on trucking.  Gotta respect that as well.


                         “Losing like this was definitely good for us.” - Some crazy guy with no D.


                        #19 Cooper

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                          Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:59 PM

                          Is Lin Russel Westbrook? no, is he a good enough pg for the next 2yrs sure. Better to reevaluate when his contract is up.

                          #20 Jason

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                            Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:13 PM

                            Is Lin Russel Westbrook? no, is he a good enough pg for the next 2yrs sure. Better to reevaluate when his contract is up.


                            But if our goal is to win a championship why just settle on him for 2 yrs? I think we need to consider All positions as possible upgrades this offseason except for SG of course. Like I said, if we can put together a package to get Trey Burke I would definitely do it.




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