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@  2016Champions : (10 April 2013 - 07:20 AM) this photo looks awesome. lol @ Lin http://www.nba.com/r...04/forjason.jpg
@  rockets best... : (10 April 2013 - 04:54 AM) well it looks like the hornets didn't get it done
@  DrewinAbilene : (10 April 2013 - 03:44 AM) But the Hornets are trying to help out!
@  BenQueens : (10 April 2013 - 03:42 AM) Klay Thompson is clearly not listening to me.
@  DrewinAbilene : (10 April 2013 - 03:24 AM) And the Mavs...
@  DrewinAbilene : (10 April 2013 - 03:24 AM) Not gonna lie, I hold no deep animosity for any NBA team... Except the dang Lakers!
@  BenQueens : (10 April 2013 - 03:24 AM) Man! Playoffs again and cap space in the off-season. So much better than a mid-first rounder!
@  2016Champions : (10 April 2013 - 03:22 AM) Me too
@  BenQueens : (10 April 2013 - 03:21 AM) I know what you mean about match-ups, but I've developed enough of a grudge about GSW that I just want them to lose, lose, lose.
@  2016Champions : (10 April 2013 - 03:19 AM) I'm asking for alot -__-'
@  feelingsuper... : (10 April 2013 - 03:19 AM) Yesssssssssss!!!!!!
@  2016Champions : (10 April 2013 - 03:19 AM) oh wait, Grizz play us one more game. So Nuggets need to lose two lol
@  2016Champions : (10 April 2013 - 03:19 AM) Lets go Minny, but only if Nuggets lose to Spurs tomorrow and Grizz go undefeated for the rest of the season :D
@  DrewinAbilene : (10 April 2013 - 03:16 AM) Amen to that! Our cup of optimism runneth over!
@  BenQueens : (10 April 2013 - 03:14 AM) Why stop at Lakers loss? Let's go Minny.
@  DrewinAbilene : (10 April 2013 - 03:12 AM) Is a Lakers loss on top of the fluke Rockets win is too much to ask for?
@  Rahat Huq : (10 April 2013 - 03:12 AM) how sweet it is!
@  Rahat Huq : (10 April 2013 - 03:11 AM) 30 seconds away from clinching
@  BenQueens : (10 April 2013 - 02:43 AM) TJ + Greg Smith combine for 23 and 11 on 10/15 shooting.
@  BenQueens : (10 April 2013 - 02:41 AM) Bright spot: TJ playing some rookie D, but I like the way he cleans up.  Dark: 20% from 3.

Photo

What do you think of Lin's defense?


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16 replies to this topic

Poll: What do you think of Lin's defense? (14 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think of Lin's defense?

  1. Above average (8 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. Below average (1 votes [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  3. Just average (5 votes [35.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

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#1 2016Champions

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:48 AM

I think Lin has a reputation as a bad defender. He is guilty of over-helping sometimes, and he doesn't wow you with his defensive energy the way Beverley does. We have all seen guys like Westbrook and Jennings go off for 30 points on him, but is he really a bad defender? To me he seems like someone who watches a lot of tape and plays very smart defense, you rarely see him bite on fakes and you rarely see his man blow right past him one on one. Overall, I think the positives in his defense outweigh the negatives. Here's a cool fact I came across:

 


Lin is actually ranked third in defensive plays--the combination of steals, blocks and drawn charges per game--among point guards (2.76 per game), just behind L.A. Clippers superstar Chris Paul, the league leader in steals, and Mike Conley

 

 

But that still doesn't mean he's a good defender. I tried to find some youtube videos and found this (starts at the 4 minute mark): 

 

But obviously you can't make you decision based on highlights. So lets have a discussion, I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion. Is Jeremy Lin a good defender or not? 

 

Vote and discuss. 


“A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.” 
― Frank Zappa


#2 redfaithful

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    Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:11 AM

    Good collection, waiting for future ones.

     

    Very interesting piece from Jonathan Feigen on Lin's off court leadership:

    http://blog.chron.co...ty-via-texting/



    #3 Richards

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      Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

      Lin isn't on-ball defender like Bev. And he doesn't do hand-checking and bouncing like Bev and TD.

      But his court awareness and anticipation of opponents' move are very good.

      I don't know where he rank league wise but I assume he is better than average.



      #4 pharmag

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        Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:44 PM

        I think he is an above average defender with the potential to be a very good one.  He does help off his man a lot, but this team is not a defensive stalwart, and I think as this group of guys becomes more accustomed to playing together (and playing defense), he will get even better.  Defense is half instinct and half experience (film is important for figuring out tendencies, but doesn't "teach" you how to stop someone...you have to go do it).  Lin has shown the instincts and now he is getting the experience.



        #5 thenit

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          Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:47 PM

          He is actually a very good at defending the opponent when they post up on him. He lacks a little bit of lateral quickness. But I would say he is above average defender, but in no terms elite or great. He is good.

           

          One thing I like to point out that, maybe Lin gets beat sometimes when the opposing pg go off for 30 points once in a while, but how many people havent had westbrook go off 30? The thing is the crops of very good PGs in this league is deep. I can't name one team that has a shitty starter.

          Look at the bad teams, NO has Vasques, Dragic at Suns, Kemba at charlotte, Toronto has lowry so night in and night out he faces very good players. Its the deepest position in the NBA except for maybe the SF todays. Example C and SG are very shallow in talent.



          #6 Sir Thursday

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          Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:02 PM

          I trust Lin to do a good job when matched up against bigger guards, but tend to be less confident if he's trying to check someone speedy. As I've said many a time, I think he's a great post-defender (I seem to recall him playing some excellent defense on Carmelo Anthony(!) when he got switched out to him in one of the New York games, which is one of the toughest assignments around at the minute, and he did a good job against CP3 the other week), though obviously that's not a skill that comes up all that often in terms of PG defence. But I think laterally he's a little slow and that allows a quick PG to get past him sometimes.

           

          Off ball, he has a tendency to pursue the double-team too aggressively, which can hurt, but he also gets some steals out of it, so swings and roundabouts. Other than that I can't say I've noticed anything too terrible.

           

          ST



          #7 Richards

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            Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:54 PM

            I trust Lin to do a good job when matched up against bigger guards, but tend to be less confident if he's trying to check someone speedy. As I've said many a time, I think he's a great post-defender (I seem to recall him playing some excellent defense on Carmelo Anthony(!) when he got switched out to him in one of the New York games, which is one of the toughest assignments around at the minute, and he did a good job against CP3 the other week), though obviously that's not a skill that comes up all that often in terms of PG defence. But I think laterally he's a little slow and that allows a quick PG to get past him sometimes.

             

            Off ball, he has a tendency to pursue the double-team too aggressively, which can hurt, but he also gets some steals out of it, so swings and roundabouts. Other than that I can't say I've noticed anything too terrible.

             

            ST

            Excellent! That is exactly what I see.



            #8 2016Champions

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            Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:23 PM

            Looks like most of us are in agreement. 


            “A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.” 
            ― Frank Zappa


            #9 rockets best fan

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            Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:52 PM

            I trust Lin to do a good job when matched up against bigger guards, but tend to be less confident if he's trying to check someone speedy. As I've said many a time, I think he's a great post-defender (I seem to recall him playing some excellent defense on Carmelo Anthony(!) when he got switched out to him in one of the New York games, which is one of the toughest assignments around at the minute, and he did a good job against CP3 the other week), though obviously that's not a skill that comes up all that often in terms of PG defence. But I think laterally he's a little slow and that allows a quick PG to get past him sometimes.

             

            Off ball, he has a tendency to pursue the double-team too aggressively, which can hurt, but he also gets some steals out of it, so swings and roundabouts. Other than that I can't say I've noticed anything too terrible.

             

            ST

            I also agree this is what I see and would only add that the nba is full of these speedy quick guards. that's why I see j-lin as only slightly below average defensively.



            #10 phaketrash

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            Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:54 PM

            I also agree this is what I see and would only add that the nba is full of these speedy quick guards. that's why I see j-lin as only slightly below average defensively.

             

            Only if you also then assume these same guards have the lateral quickness to keep up w/ their counterparts as well. I mean, if they all suffer from what holds Lin back, then Lin could still easily be above average.



            #11 rockets best fan

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            Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:12 PM

            Only if you also then assume these same guards have the lateral quickness to keep up w/ their counterparts as well. I mean, if they all suffer from what holds Lin back, then Lin could still easily be above average.

            if you believe j-lin is above average defensively great.......I don't. i'm not going to bash j-lin because I like him, but liking him doesn't mean I don't see his faults. the nba has a crap load of speedy guards.....lin can't guard them effectively. so on more nights than not he will be overmatched defensively at his position..........that to me spells below average.



            #12 phaketrash

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            Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:21 PM

            if you believe j-lin is above average defensively great.......I don't. i'm not going to bash j-lin because I like him, but liking him doesn't mean I don't see his faults. the nba has a crap load of speedy guards.....lin can't guard them effectively. so on more nights than not he will be overmatched defensively at his position..........that to me spells below average.

             

            My point was that can only logically be true if all other PGs do not share that same problem. I'm just pointing out a possible logical inconsistency. For example, let's say yes, Lin cannot keep in front of speedy guards, but if all 29 other PGs in the league also can't keep in front of speedy guards, the fact that Lin can't would not somehow make him below average on defense.

             

            Again, if Lin is too slow to keep in front of speedy guards, that doesn't mean he's below average unless more than half of all other nba PGs can stay in front of the speedy guards. If this weren't true, then there being a lot of speedy guards in the league would be rather moot, at least in relation to Lin's defensive prowess.

             

            I'm not commenting one way or another on whether most other PGs can or cannot stay in front of their guards. I have no idea. I was just saying, for your statement to be true, you'd just have to have that implicit assumption. It'd be great if you or anyone else also happened to have data that might speak to how other point guards keep up w/ their defensive assignments.



            #13 rockets best fan

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            Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:43 PM

            My point was that can only logically be true if all other PGs do not share that same problem. I'm just pointing out a possible logical inconsistency. For example, let's say yes, Lin cannot keep in front of speedy guards, but if all 29 other PGs in the league also can't keep in front of speedy guards, the fact that Lin can't would not somehow make him below average on defense.

             

            Again, if Lin is too slow to keep in front of speedy guards, that doesn't mean he's below average unless more than half of all other nba PGs can stay in front of the speedy guards. If this weren't true, then there being a lot of speedy guards in the league would be rather moot, at least in relation to Lin's defensive prowess.

             

            I'm not commenting one way or another on whether most other PGs can or cannot stay in front of their guards. I have no idea. I was just saying, for your statement to be true, you'd just have to have that implicit assumption. It'd be great if you or anyone else also happened to have data that might speak to how other point guards keep up w/ their defensive assignments.

            I fully see your point and it hold weight.............however I still feel lin is below average



            #14 datruth

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              Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

              Lin is very strong for a point guard, but right now I consider him average, but that's not a bad thing.



              #15 Steven

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                Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:58 PM

                It's defense. It's overrated in the regular season. Why don't we wait until the real basketball is played then make a judgement?

                #16 RollingWave

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                  Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:43 AM

                  It's difficult to say for sure this year, general observation is that he doesn't get beat 1 on 1 that much but occasionally miss rotation and gamble too much (though he's actually cut that down as the year went on.)  it's a work in process. hard to say for sure but generally speaking as a whole right now it's around average to maybe above average. 

                   

                  But defense for perimeter player is really more about the whole team than the individual to be honest, there are a few guys that really really bad and gets destroyed one on one a lot (aka, Steve Nash) but most don't, the real question is how does he help in the context of the entire team's rotation?

                   

                  http://www.basketbal...OU/2013/on-off/

                   

                  these on - off court data offers some interesting looks, it confirms some obvious observation like Omer Asik is indispensable to our D and Patrick Beverly is also extremely good defensively,  also that James Harden... could get better defensively to put it kindly.

                   

                  Lin is more in between, on-off court wise he's a negative in defense, but by a pretty limited margin. and this split also looks a the whole season while Lin's been kind of two different players in the first 20-30 game as compare to the last 30 games.



                  #17 2016Champions

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                  Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:56 AM

                  What's the difference between that on/off and this on/off?: http://www.82games.c...2HOU4.HTM#onoff

                   

                  For the record, RAPM is a lot less flawed than any method I've ever found, but they never load the ratings until the season is over for the sake of sample size: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/


                  “A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.” 
                  ― Frank Zappa





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