148 replies to this topic

[Mason Khamvilay]

You seem to be under the impression it's easy to sign a superstar. If you were right I would agree, settling for an all-star caliber player for 3/4 the price of a superstar is horrible logic. Unfortunately 21 year old Tim Duncan's aren't growing on trees awaiting our signing.

[phaketrash]

You seem to be under the impression it's easy to sign a superstar. If you were right I would agree, settling for an all-star caliber player for 3/4 the price of a superstar is horrible logic. Unfortunately 21 year old Tim Duncan's aren't growing on trees awaiting our signing.

 

That wasn't actually my argument. Sure, superstars are not easy to find, but sometimes settling too easily is exactly what got a bunch of nba teams into their current crappy situations. We happen to be in a position where we can wait. Take the time to make smart moves and not waste our flexibility. Not many teams are in our enviable position. We shouldn't give that advantage away simply because other teams do.

 

Besides, I don't even think a superstar is necessary...but an all star probably is. There are simply better moves we can make than to spend $12M on Millsap this offseason (tied to a long term deal).  

[timetodienow1234567]

Exactly phaketrash.

[Cooper]

For the money we'd have to pay milsap might as well just pay up for smith.

[Mason Khamvilay]

That wasn't actually my argument. Sure, superstars are not easy to find, but sometimes settling too easily is exactly what got a bunch of nba teams into their current crappy situations. We happen to be in a position where we can wait. Take the time to make smart moves and not waste our flexibility. Not many teams are in our enviable position. We shouldn't give that advantage away simply because other teams do.

 

Besides, I don't even think a superstar is necessary...but an all star probably is? There are simply better moves we can make than to spend $12M on Millsap this offseason (tied to a long term deal).  

What is this better move we can do? I've looked at the free agents in 2014 and there aren't many all-stars in that one either besides Pau Gasol who will be 34 years old. 

 

If we don't want Millsap or Josh Smith 2 years from now, why can't we simply trade him for a 2nd round pick? What do we have to lose?

[phaketrash]

What is this better move we can do? I've looked at the free agents in 2014 and there aren't many all-stars in that one either besides Pau Gasol who will be 34 years old. 

 

If we don't want Millsap or Josh Smith 2 years from now, why can't we simply trade him for a 2nd round pick? What do we have to lose?

 

? There are a ton of all stars in 2014. Question is how many we'd actually be able to land -- who knows? There's LBJ, Wade and Bosh all able to opt out, there's Favors ®, Bryant (retiring or LAL for life though), Granger (possibly worth less), Iggy (doesn't fit our system well, I admit), Deng, Ellis, Rudy Gay (ew), Gasol (as you mentioned, for maybe a LOT cheaper), Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and Dirk (old and not leaving their teams), and Melo.

 

But even without looking at 2014, as I said, I would rather pay a few more million for JSmoove than Millsap. Why Sap for a few million less when I could have Smith for just a few million more?

 

And the argument of moving them a few yrs later applies w/ equal force. Problem is, what team would want them 2 yrs later? They would have to be significantly under the salary cap and NOT want to be a player in the FA market. Why wouldn't they just keep their cap space and instead wait for FA? Unless the player they specifically want is JSmith or Millsap from the whole FA market? (slightly doubtful)

 

Sure there are outs, but I wonder if the risk is worth the benefit here as the alternatives (of which we have a ton) aren't that bad/are better even. 

[Steven]

What is this better move we can do? I've looked at the free agents in 2014 and there aren't many all-stars in that one either besides Pau Gasol who will be 34 years old.

If we don't want Millsap or Josh Smith 2 years from now, why can't we simply trade him for a 2nd round pick? What do we have to lose?

And what bad contracts do we have to take back in order for that trade to work? That's the problem with offering lesser players more then they are worth. The goal should be to stay off of Bill Simmons' worst 30 contracts list, not sign one that instantly joins it. If Smith or Millsap wanna take Jeff Green money then they would be valuable assets to the Rockets, if not, then Morey should pass.

[timetodienow1234567]

Tonight he looked like a 6 mil a year player. I wouldn't mind paying him 8-9, but 12-14 is a no for me.

[Mason Khamvilay]

? There are a ton of all stars in 2014. Question is how many we'd actually be able to land -- who knows? There's LBJ, Wade and Bosh all able to opt out, there's Favors ®, Bryant (retiring or LAL for life though), Granger (possibly worth less), Iggy (doesn't fit our system well, I admit), Deng, Ellis, Rudy Gay (ew), Gasol (as you mentioned, for maybe a LOT cheaper), Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and Dirk (old and not leaving their teams), and Melo.

 

But even without looking at 2014, as I said, I would rather pay a few more million for JSmoove than Millsap. Why Sap for a few million less when I could have Smith for just a few million more?

 

And the argument of moving them a few yrs later applies w/ equal force. Problem is, what team would want them 2 yrs later? They would have to be significantly under the salary cap and NOT want to be a player in the FA market. Why wouldn't they just keep their cap space and instead wait for FA? Unless the player they specifically want is JSmith or Millsap from the whole FA market? (slightly doubtful)

 

Sure there are outs, but I wonder if the risk is worth the benefit here as the alternatives (of which we have a ton) aren't that bad/are better even. 

 

Be realistic, you're throwing a bunch of names out there that you know won't sign with the Rockets. Kobe? Are you serious? Dirk? Not happening. If we're being realistic here, our options aren't that much better than JSmooth and Millsap. If we wait till 2014 and none of the Beatles opt out, and half the others resign, every option left over could look alot worse than Millsap in terms fit, price, and talent level. 

 

I did say I prefer Josh Smith over Millsap so I'm not sure why you're trying to convince me in that regard. I'm just saying Millsap is a great fallback option in contrast to what is likely to be available to us in 2014 (Granger, Deng, Pierce, 35 year old Pau ect.). You have to keep in mind that alot of players will resign with their teams, and putting all your eggs in the 'Lebron will opt out and sign with the Rockets' basket is wishful thinking at best.

[phaketrash]

Be realistic, you're throwing a bunch of names out there that you know won't sign with the Rockets. Kobe? Are you serious? Dirk? Not happening. If we're being realistic here, our options aren't that much better than JSmooth and Millsap. If we wait till 2014 and none of the Beatles opt out, and half the others resign, every option left over could look alot worse than Millsap in terms fit, price, and talent level. 

 

I did say I prefer Josh Smith over Millsap so I'm not sure why you're trying to convince me in that regard. I'm just saying Millsap is a great fallback option in contrast to what is likely to be available to us in 2014 (Granger, Deng, Pierce, 35 year old Pau ect.). You have to keep in mind that alot of players will resign with their teams, and putting all your eggs in the 'Lebron will opt out and sign with the Rockets' basket is wishful thinking at best.

 

To be fair, I did write in the parentheticals that those players weren't realistic options for us. I realize the comments were in parentheses, but I didn't mean for them to be optional lol. I also don't think LBJ will come to Houston, but I do think we have a shot at Bosh. 

 

And while we both may agree that JSmoove is better than Millsap, where we disagree is I'd rather not have a backup of signing Millsap at all. I'd rather spend the cap on a 1 yr rental, other benefits, whatever, to get to 2014. $12M or more for Millsap for a 4 yr deal or something is tying our hands for too long...for a team almost guaranteed to not even have a darkhorse chance at a championship. With JSmooth we at least retain that darkhorse chance (even assuming no other moves). I'd rather take the cap and take a shot at some of the free agents in 2014, like Bosh or Melo or even the super slim chance at Dirk for a shorter term twilight deal. The chance at each by itself is not high, but collectively, I value it greater than what Millsap's alternative would mean (as much as I like Millsap).

 

But honestly, since the question can be essentially restated as $12M+ for Millsap vs. a max for JSmoove, it becomes a moot question anyways because JSmoove accepts that max offer from us 10 out of 10 days lol. 

[phaketrash]

ps - we've also REALLY drifted away from my original comment in the first place, which was only meant to point out how I disagree with the notion and logic that we should be grateful to sign a player of Millsap's stature for $12M because there are other worse players out there who are already paid the max by other teams.

[Mason Khamvilay]

ps - we've also REALLY drifted away from my original comment in the first place, which was only meant to point out how I disagree with the notion and logic that we should be grateful to sign a player of Millsap's stature for $12M because there are other worse players out there who are already paid the max by other teams.

 

Your original comment works under the premise that I see Millsap as a good signing solely because of some flawed logic, but as I stated in one of my posts on this thread, Millsap is statistically one of the best PF's in this league--this is the main reason I think he's a good signing. PF is our weakest position and he's one of the best PF's in the league or not far from it, and the fact he will be a bargain at 12m is merely a bonus we can feel fortunate about. This fortunate bonus might also allow us to sign another player.

 

As for your preferred route, I think our chances of getting Bosh or Melo are about as unlikely as Dwight and Cp3 so I never even considered that an option. Although I do understand your notion that we should take the gamble since we can afford to lose, and I'm not entirely against that idea.

[Cooper]

Milsap isn't that good and whether its 8 or 12 mill you have to pay him it's bad either way because it takes away max flexibility in FA or a trade, and he isn't very widely valued around the league the jazz would have traded him for anything decent at the deadline and there were no takers, when it comes down to it he's 6-8 not super athletic or super skilled. He seems like a good guy and teammate who works hard but isn't going to make this team much better if at all.

[Mason Khamvilay]

I disagree, I think Millsap is one of the best PF's in the league or at the very least he's in that discussion.

[Mario Peña]

Sure there are opinions and details to discuss about a Millsap or Smith type player but what is interesting will be what kind of innovative contract Morey might offer to preserve some flexibility. Will it be a traditional contract or something different?

[thejohnnygold]

I'm starting to dislike the idea of Millsap for us at PF.  The more I think about it the more it scares me.  Every year, the PF position gets bigger, longer, and stronger--Millsap does not.  We just let two 6'9" PF's go and they were described as "Tweeners"--too small for the position.  Millsap is smaller and lacks the hops to compensate for it.  While his BBall IQ allows him to remain effective--for now--I fear that every year that passes renders him obsolete at his preferred position.  As I stated before, in a playoff series opposing PF's will be able to have their way with him and the Western Conference is chock full of these guys.

 

Now, if Millsap were able to move to SF I would be intrigued a little, but once again, if we're doing that J. Smith is a better choice.

 

I'm really starting to prefer a different approach altogether.  In the thread about using our cap on multiple players I have started to convince myself that rounding out our roster without a big-name star isn't a bad idea at all.  (Presuming Howard is not an option) I still like Josh Smith for his versatility and all-around game...after that I think we legitimately are not as hard-pressed to sign a big name as most think.

 

Lin is proving his worth and once he finds the consistency will be a top flight PG in this league.

 

I may have to move Parsons back a spot to 3rd best on the team--but only because Lin will surpass him--not because he isn't that good.  I can see him trying to take his game to the next level and I think he will.  He will be an excellent player for us that deserves to be on the court.

 

I like what I see from Robinson at PF.  D-Mo too.  I think both of these guys will continue to find minutes on the floor because of their high motors and over the next year and a half to two years will round out into really good players.

 

Asik is exactly what we need at center (minus better hands and finishing ability).

 

So, whatever we acquire should fit into this mold and enhance it.  A back up SG, a back up SF and a back up C are actually the priorities that make this team whole.

 

Getting Josh Smith would be a huge step, but it doesn't plug the other two gaps--which I know Morey can do.  Maybe Anderson plugs the SG hole?  Maybe Ohlbrecht fills the back up center?

 

Either way, I think our roster is quietly set to grow together and become very, very good--with or without a star free agent.

[Mason Khamvilay]

Obviously Josh Smith is the guy we all agree is the better fit because he naturally play the 3, but I just don't see Morey offering Josh the max contract he wants. If we get Mlilsap, chances are that we will have enough cap space left over to sign another FA to fill the gaps off the bench. A couple of years from now we can trade Millsap for a high 2nd round pick, by then D-Mo and Thomas Robinson will be ready.

[rockets best fan]

Obviously Josh Smith is the guy we all agree is the better fit because he naturally play the 3, but I just don't see Morey offering Josh the max contract he wants. If we get Mlilsap, chances are that we will have enough cap space left over to sign another FA to fill the gaps off the bench. A couple of years from now we can trade Millsap for a high 2nd round pick, by then D-Mo and Thomas Robinson will be ready.

I don't agree on j-smith first off, and I am totally against milsap for all the reasons thejohnnygold just stated. the idea we can just trade milsap whenever we feel like it is flawed. utah tryed that this year and there were no takers. how is that going to change in the next 2 years? even if we can trade him we are likely to recover less than his value just to get rid of him. he's a very bad idea.  

[thejohnnygold]

That's probably true, but how much better does Millsap make our team?  I don't see him fitting into our system that well.  I feel like on our team, his skills would not be enhanced.

[Rahat Huq]

Not like it was the first time I had seen him play, but I was thoroughly unimpressed by Millsap last night.