61 replies to this topic

[Mario Peña]

Tuoi56, with all due respect, you are pretty off if what you have written you consider an informed opinion that you are presenting as factual points in this debate. Now if you are crazy about Lin and truly 'feel' that way then hey you are entitled to your feelings but generally we try to keep discussion here on Red94 on the more rational side of basketball talk.

The fact is Harden averages 5.6 assists and Lin averages 6.1 and on the surface that is not much of a difference. Looking at assists average would not confirm that Harden is a ball hog and it would tell me he is a player who handles the ball and makes plays. Now you can break down their assists averages versus minutes played, their position on the court or however you want but to label Harden as selfish is pretty far from the truth.

To the original question as to whether Dragic or Lin is better, honestly there isn't probably much of a difference in the long term big picture. We are just splitting hairs in this debate. In the details they are quite different but both fit in a blueprint for the future. If anything we know Lin is exponentially superior in the PR realm but I personally do not care about that though it must be noted.

[Alituro]

Sheesh, Well we all know who that guy is a fan of.. As far as Dragic vs Lin, to me they're both cut from the same mold, which is kind of the problem with both of them. They have shooting guard skills in a PG sized body. Neither is a true shooter, and you can't play either at the 2 for too long because they're too small. This is also a problem especially for Lin having to share the backcourt with another player (Harden) cut from the same mold, but is actually sized right for his skills. Dragic's 2 is Brown(?) and the team has no scorer able to net 20 per night on average which opens up more opportunity for him, hence the 3 pt advantage over Lin. Their assists are about the same. Now if you wanted a much easier debate ask if Lin>Lowry. I would love to have Lowry back in his stead. Lowry fit the PG mold perfectly, and then some when you add in his rebounding. He's non-selfish and would gel perfectly with Harden, IMO without much adjustment. even though he's shorter, he was built like a football halfback and really bothered other PGs on defense with his bulk. Heck he even bothered bigs when creating contact driving to the basket because he would leave bruises. He had better court vision than both and knew well all of the technical little intricacies of the game and his position. Way more savvy to the game. Losing Lowry was the biggest heartbreaker.

[SamC]

During the game, they had a quick shot of Lin sitting on the bench at end of the 4th and he looked demoralized. The coaching staff is clearly sending a message to Lin.

[rocketrick]

It seems quite pointless to me to keep harking on whether we should have signed Dragic or kept Lowry instead of signing Lin. The fact is Dragic wanted a 5 year contract (only 1 player per team can be signed to a 5 year contract, is Dragic the right player to sign in that case? No, as it turns out the Rockets instead eventually signed a much better player, Harden, to that 5 year contract) and reportedly Lowry and Coach McHale were at loggerheads. Jeremy Lin is an NBA point guard period and is better than at least half of the point guards starting in the league today period. Personally, I would like to see Lin have the ball more so he can do his magic and create rather than keep going with the same old play over and over again by giving Harden the ball at the top of the key and see what he can create. Why not let Harden create from the right side of the court and give Lin first dibs on most plays. If nothing is available, pass the ball to Harden and let him create from the side with dribble penetrations or pick and roll with Patterson leaving Patterson open for a 3 in the corner if both defensive players go for Harden. Just a thought.

[rocketrick]

During the game, they had a quick shot of Lin sitting on the bench at end of the 4th and he looked demoralized. The coaching staff is clearly sending a message to Lin.

And just exactly what message is the coaching staff supposedly sending to Lin??

[Rahat Huq]

It seems quite pointless to me to keep harking on whether we should have signed Dragic or kept Lowry instead of signing Lin. The fact is Dragic wanted a 5 year contract (only 1 player per team can be signed to a 5 year contract, is Dragic the right player to sign in that case? No, as it turns out the Rockets instead eventually signed a much better player, Harden, to that 5 year contract) and reportedly Lowry and Coach McHale were at loggerheads. Jeremy Lin is an NBA point guard period and is better than at least half of the point guards starting in the league today period. Personally, I would like to see Lin have the ball more so he can do his magic and create rather than keep going with the same old play over and over again by giving Harden the ball at the top of the key and see what he can create. Why not let Harden create from the right side of the court and give Lin first dibs on most plays. If nothing is available, pass the ball to Harden and let him create from the side with dribble penetrations or pick and roll with Patterson leaving Patterson open for a 3 in the corner if both defensive players go for Harden. Just a thought.

Dragic wanted a 4 year contract, not a 5 year contract. Jeremy Lin has a 3 year contract. Giving Dragic the 4-year-deal would not have prohibited signing Harden to the 5 year.

[SamC]

And just exactly what message is the coaching staff supposedly sending to Lin??

The message is, play well or sit on the bench. The question isn't effort. He's displaying a lot of that but he's not making baskets and instead, creating turnovers. Despite having a poor shooting game, Harden continued to be aggressive and get to the line and at least force the Celtics to double him or stay on him. We all know Lin can play so he has to stop passing up shooting opportunities. And he has a tendency to drive to the basket and stop because he wants to pass. He either gets called for walking, turns the ball over because he's making a poor pass, gets blocked because he's trying to shoot after coming to a halt, or he gets the ball ripped from his hands by a larger defender who's blocking the paint. He could learn a lot from Harden. Lin has to drive to the basket with the mind set to shoot and pass second rather than pass first and shoot second.

[SamC]

Personally, I would like to see Lin have the ball more so he can do his magic and create rather than keep going with the same old play over and over again by giving Harden the ball at the top of the key and see what he can create. Why not let Harden create from the right side of the court and give Lin first dibs on most plays. If nothing is available, pass the ball to Harden and let him create from the side with dribble penetrations or pick and roll with Patterson leaving Patterson open for a 3 in the corner if both defensive players go for Harden. Just a thought.

I saw an effort last night to give both players the chance to try and create something. Early in the game, Lin or Harden would try to penetrate and if nothing opened up, they would kick the ball out to the other. But it didn't work. And I think the coach's experiment with the the rotation isn't working either. For the past two games, when they rest Harden, they have Lin and Douglas in the backcourt. The problem is, the ball keeps going to Douglas first and Lin ends up playing the role of a SG. I don't know if this is a coaching decision to put the ball in Douglas' hands or if Lin is deferring or the team prefers Douglas with the ball or what. If the purpose of that rotation is to give Lin a chance to be "the man", it's not working.

[rocketrick]

Dragic wanted a 4 year contract, not a 5 year contract. Jeremy Lin has a 3 year contract. Giving Dragic the 4-year-deal would not have prohibited signing Harden to the 5 year.

Thanks for that, Rahat. I stand corrected! I see that Dragic has a player option in year 4 of his contract, too.

[AlphaBeta]

from the numbers, Dragic is having a better season so far. Not such a difference that people should be crying over him though...
If the more developed player isn't having a better season that would be a problem.

[Stephen]

Fun with numbers continued.

Jeremy Lin has played just under 2100 minutes in NBA prior to Christmas Chicago game.
His assist % this yr is 29.8% and his turnover % is 18.6% with a usage of 18.9% and a PER of 14.4.

Dragic had 2,170 minutes by the end of his second yr.
His numbers for his second season are an assist % of 24.1%,turnover % of 18.3% w/a usage rate of 21.1% and a PER of 14.8.

[DaDakota]

Yes they did, Dragic is better all the way around.

Lin is about 2/3rds the ability of Dragic.....

Lin was signed to sell tickets while we rebuild, once we got Harden, I guarantee they wish they kept Dragic.

[Jlin787]

Getting Harden didn't mean playoffs instantly. As stated, the Rockets are ahead schedule and are winning games. We were technically a rebuilding team with the bonus of Harden.

[sircharles]

lets look at the great season dragic has been having this year.......

[DaDakota]

lets look at the great season dragic has been having this year.......

Maybe not great, but better than Lin in every individual category.

Not saying LIn sucks, but Goran is clearly the better player.

[thejohnnygold]

Stats Schmats! Lin is easier to pronounce than Dragic. Ergo, I prefer Lin. So there.

[DaDakota]

Stats Schmats! Lin is easier to pronounce than Dragic. Ergo, I prefer Lin. So there.

Well how can you argue with that?

LOL - and he is american to boot !

DD

[kjunfood]

Maybe not great, but better than Lin in every individual category.

Not saying LIn sucks, but Goran is clearly the better player.

Wait, you mean every individual category not named assists and rebounds, right? Or steals, blocks and FT%? And while Lin is still behind in FG% by a bit (just .2 now), and by a lot in 3 pt %, and a tad higher in TOs...their momentum seems to be in opposite directions. Lin's play has been much, much better lately.

Am I saying, knowing we would have Harden today, I would personally choose Lin over Dragic? No. Am I saying Lin is better than Dragic? Definitely not. But I feel, esp. as the season continues (and Lin who is 2 yrs younger grows), it will be a much tougher question than you think. I already am unsure it is that obvious of an answer!

[NorEastern]

I do believe that we are seeing why Lin is an acceptable replacement for Dragic. Remarkable what coaching and substituting patterns can do for a team. We seem to be heading in the right direction. Why mess with success?

[NorEastern]

Maybe not great, but better than Lin in every individual category.

Not saying LIn sucks, but Goran is clearly the better player.

DD! Good to see you again. Best to you.